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Protests Scheduled at Walmart Stores; Michael O'Hanlon Says Ignore Afghanistan's Rhetoric; How Joe Biden Stands in the Polls; Controversy Continues Over Seminole Name and Tradition.

Aired November 29, 2013 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Black Friday is officially in full swing and shoppers are out in force. Many began their shopping last night. For the first time ever, the flagship Macy's store in New York opened on Thanksgiving night. Some stores did wait to open until early Friday morning. This was the scene in Nashville at Bass Pro Shops. An affiliate reported that there were about a thousand people waiting in line at 3:00 in the morning. What people will do for bargains.

Walmart seems very pleased with what it calls its Super Bowl. They announced record-breaking Black Friday sales, adding, quote, "Our Black Friday events were bigger, better, faster, cheaper and safer than ever."

But one thing Walmart may not be happy about today, 1500 the protests scheduled at its stores nationwide, being organized by a group called Our Walmart, which is pushing for better working conditions.

Kyung Lah is in Los Angeles, one of the cities where the protests are scheduled to take place.

Here's what Walmart CEO Bill Simon told CNN this morning about those demonstrations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL SIMON, CEO, WALMART: Black Friday, we just talked about it. You know, millions and millions of people out shopping is the big stage, and Walmart's a big player on the big stage. As there are those who want to try to change an industry, a service industry like retail, it's not unexpected that they would be out on Black Friday at Walmart with the something to say about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So Kyung, why is Walmart such a focus? We don't hear about it other stores like Target, et cetera. Why does Walmart get so much of the attention?

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Compare the two stores. It's sheer number. That's what it comes down to, Jim. Target employs about 300,000 people nationwide. If you look how many people Walmart employs, 1.5 million workers. That's approximately 1 percent of the American labor force. And that's why protesters say it makes them an appropriate target to talk about low wages. That's why you see protests like this come out throughout the country.

There have been a number of large-scale protests from the east coast all the way to the west coast. As far as who makes up the people inside these protests, we don't have the definitive numbers. At this particular protest, some of the people there, we're seeing perhaps maybe a quarter of the protesters were actually Walmart employees.

These have been very peaceful. You're seeing some arrests at these protests. But these were preplanned.

So, Jim, a lot of this simply to set the stage so people will start talking about wages for these employees.

SCIUTTO: So, Kyung, you saw the ones that actually involve Walmart workers are a bit more calm. What do they say when they say what they want from that your companies? Sounds like they want a dialogue to try to move things forward, right?

LAH: It depends who you talk to as far as the employees. A lot of the employees here say they're actually quite happy with their jobs, that they make time and a half, that they want to work these holidays, and they want to keep showing up for these jobs. But then you talk to some of the more motivated employees, ones who might be going out there to protest. And we've spoken to a couple of them. They say yeah, they would love to make more money and have a platform to have this discussion with management where they can talk about it.

SCIUTTO: Some of the 1.5 million Walmart employees around the country.

Thanks very much to Kyung Lah, with us in Los Angeles.

Coming up head in CNN NEWSROOM, Afghanistan keeps lashing out at the U.S. and threatening a bilateral deal but our next guest says the U.S. should ignore that rhetoric. That's right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: We now have a tentative start date on the landmark nuclear deal with Iran. Iran's representative to the United Nation's atomic agency says his country will start implementing the agreement by the end of December or early January next year. Under the deal with the U.S. and five other world powers, Iran has agreed to place limits on enriching uranium and allow intrusive inspections of all its nuclear facilities in exchange for a temporary easing of economic sanctions.

The relationship between the U.S. and Afghan President Hamid Karzai continues to get worse. The latest work of a U.S. air strike on Thursday that resulted in civilian deaths has Mr. Karzai lashing out again at the U.S. The same week, Karzai told Susan Rice he will not sign a bilateral security deal until certain of his conditions are met. Now, if that agreement is not signed, that means U.S. troops might leave Afghanistan for good.

We're going to bring in Michael O'Hanlon of the Brookings Institution, who recently wrote an op-ed for "The New York Times," on this, what the U.S. should do and not do when Karzai complains to us.

First, can you explain to Americans why Karzai is pushing back so strongly against this agreement?

MICHAEL O'HANLON, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Jim, I think there are two main reasons. One is that Karzai is a frustrated and somewhat exhausted guy emotionally by this 12 years of leadership on the war. He blames a lot of it on us. He needs a scapegoat. Or in some cases, he wonders why we can't be more careful about these strikes that accidently kill civilians. He fails to appreciate just what care we have taken and the number of civilian casualties is the lowest ever in history for this kind of war. But that's the emotional side.

Then there's the Machiavellian cunning side. I think he wants leverage over us for the entire time he's in office, up through the elections. And he sees this bilateral security agreement as something he thinks we need as least as much or more than he does. I'm not sure he's right about that. But it's true we want it. We think that Afghanistan still needs our help after next year and we would like to solidify the progress that we've made.

But president Karzai sees this as an opportunity, by withholding his signature, he keeps the leverage, which prevents us, in his mind, from being too tough on him over corruption or the election preparations between now and April when the elections will occur to find someone to replace him. So it's leverage. I think that's the other main reason.

SCIUTTO: You note the majority of the Afghan people want Americans to stay. They're worried about what would happen if they did leave. And that the Loya Jirga, their national council, has voted in favor of this agreement.

O'HANLON: Right.

SCIUTTO: So the public wants the Americans to stay. Does that mean his back-and-forth is not going to kill this deal?

O'HANLON: Yeah. It's interesting in Iraq, where we did leave, of course, most Iraqis were negative on us throughout much of the conflict. A lot of the Iraqi political class was down on us. In Afghanistan, there are now 10 major presidential candidates. Nine are in support of this, as I understand it. The population remains very pro-American. As you point out, the Loya Jirga, all these older tribal elders from the most remote parts of the planet, want it. So across the spectrum, the more modern, more traditional, Afghans know they need help. They saw what happened last time they were left to their own devices after the Soviet invasion. And they wound up in decades of agony and chaos. They don't want to repeat that movie. They don't want to see the squeal. They want us to stay.

And, yes, I think we can wait for whoever replaces Karzai and sign the deal with that person.

SCIUTTO: So that's what interesting. In effect, the U.S. can wait this out, right, and still get what it wants, which is a small military presence after next year? O'HANLON: Yeah, it's not ideal to wait. You'd like to give people the peace of mind. You'd like to allow other NATO countries to make their own arrangements so we can have some help in the military mission after next year. You would like to let our military logisticians and planners have time to do this properly, the sooner the better. There's no need for delay.

On the other hand, that last 10,000 U.S. troops that may or may not stay, if we need to we can pull them out I'm sure within six months. If we absolutely needed to wait until the summer, I'm confident that we could.

SCIUTTO: The headline was "Ignore Karzai's Arrogant Insults." Sounds like that went further than what you actual proposal is here.

O'HANLON: We did not actually choose that title or approve it. We would have preferred something like stay calm, stay cool about Karzai, because there are bigger stakes, bigger issues, and both for the American and Afghan people, we need to focus on the relationships between the countries, not on our difficulties with this one man.

SCIUTTO: That's been my experience when I've gone to Afghanistan, is that when you meet people there, they're concerned about -- they like the fact that their girls go to school now, and they're concerned that would end afterwards. They like having American troops around. Is that what you find, that still is the case today?

O'HANLON: Absolutely. This has been a very mixed campaign, as you well know, and as most Americans appreciate. But it has not been a defeat. Afghan people are much better off today than they were 10 or 12 years ago. This fighting season, they were in the lead. Their forces were in the lead. And they held on to all the major cities, the major transportation corridors, with our role just being one of support. So they've proven that the army and police are coming along, as well. They have a good chance to hold onto this progress and build on it. They need a little bit of help post 2014. And that's what I hope we can manage to find a way to provide.

SCIUTTO: All right. Sounds like there's a way forward here.

Thanks very much to Michael O'Hanlon of the Brookings Institution. Thanks for joining us today, explaining the way forward in Afghanistan.

So how is Vice President Biden doing in 2016 presidential polls? That depends on who else is counted in the poll. Up next, I'll tell you why he's way ahead in some polls and way behind in others.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: When it comes to the 2016 presidential race, Vice President Joe Biden isn't sitting around, patiently waiting to be asked to the big dance. He's been out courting voters like any candidate should. Hillary Clinton may be the clear front runner in many polls, but what if you take her out of the equation? In a new CNN poll, 43 percent of Democrats and Independents say they would support Biden. 17 percent support freshman Senator Elizabeth Warren. Just 15 percent are willing to throw their support behind New York governor, Andrew Cuomo.

Brian Todd has been looking at the numbers.

When we talk about Vice President Biden, is he only a contender if Hillary Clinton is out of the race or is he preparing, regardless?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It looks, Jim, like he is preparing regardless. He's doing the subtle things to lay the groundwork for a run, that he's going to do this no matter what she does. He is making phone calls to key Democrats in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina. We all know how important those states are. He is not doing any fund- raising. That's poor form to do that before the midterm elections, but he doing the subtle things that you need to do to lay the groundwork. It looks like he's going to make a run.

You pointed out poll numbers. We always talk about the 800-pound gorilla, the elephant in the room, Hillary Clinton. He's way behind her in that same CNN/ORC poll. He's 51 points behind her in that poll today. If she runs, he -- most analysts don't give him much of a chance. If she doesn't run, you saw the numbers, 43 percent, he's in good shape. He's going to probably do this no matter what, it appears now.

SCIUTTO: Some of this must be strategic against the other candidates. Build that machinery and support so that Warren and Cuomo decide not to run?

TODD: Probably, yes. So they can stack the deck more heavily in his favor. They are probably not going to do anything until they know what Hillary Clinton is going to do. It looks like Andrew Cuomo and Elizabeth Warren may wait to see what Hillary Clinton will do. Joe Biden, plodding right ahead. He has the experience. He's got the machinery. He's got the common touch. He does make the gaffes and have his own foibles. We all know that. But he's got the infrastructure in place to make a fairly effective run if he wants to. It looks like he'll do it whether she runs or not.

SCIUTTO: A pretty popular guy. Eight years as vice president --

TODD: Absolutely. Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- been in the Senate since he was a kid, really.

TODD: Pretty much.

SCIUTTO: So we're going to totally switch gears, here, a completely different topic. I know you'll come back later in the afternoon in "The Situation Room." But you're doing a story on bionic body parts.

TODD: That's right. There's a guy named Zack Bonner (ph), who lost his leg in a motorcycle accident a couple years ago. Doctors at the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago have given him essentially a bionic leg, a prosthetic that has electrodes. He attaches the prostheses to his thigh. The electrodes read the signals that his brain sends to his thigh on what he wants to do. A computer processes the signals, sends the signals to his leg. What can he do? Extend his leg, point his toes up and down. He can climb stairs. There's a picture right there of him walking fairly normally. It's incredible. The doctors want to be able to help wounded warriors come back and use these kinds of prosthetics to maybe even get them into active duty again. That's the goal here.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

TODD: They've spent a lot of money trying to do it.

SCIUTTO: I was just thinking, the number of soldiers out there who have lost legs, a great application for them.

TODD: It's going to help thousands of them, hopefully.

SCIUTTO: All right, thanks, Brian Todd. Politics and prosthetics.

TODD: You've got it.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

SCIUTTO: In college football tomorrow afternoon, we'll see the battle of Florida. The number-two ranked Florida State Seminoles against the Florida Gators. But as John Zarrella reports, the spotlight on the Seminoles is once again bringing up questions about their name and their traditions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(SINGING)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The tune is unmistakable. As is the tomahawk chop from the sellout crowd, many wearing war paint and Native American headdresses. A student portraying a Seminole chief rides out and thrusts a flaming spear into the ground.

(CHEERING)

ZARRELLA: For decades, this has been tradition at Florida State University Seminole home football games. The stereotyping of Native Americans with mascots and nicknames like Indians and Braves is in the spotlight once again. This time, over the Washington Redskins. It may shock you, but here, the people portrayed don't just tolerate the university's use of their tribe's name, Seminoles. They support it and defend it.

JAMES BILLY, CHAIRMAN, SEMINOLE TRIBE OF FLORIDA: Anybody come here into Florida trying to tell us to change the name, you better go some place else because we're not changing the name.

ZARRELLA: It almost happened once. In 2005, the NCAA tried banning the use of the mascot in post-season play until Seminole tribe of Florida leaders stepped in, signing a proclamation reiterating their support. The NCAA backed off.

Even on the Seminole reservation in Hollywood, Florida, you see support for the university.

So why does it work here? Why is it OK?

ERIC BARREN, FSU PRESIDENT: We have a total focus on mutual respect and honor.

ZARRELLA: University President Eric Barren said the tie between the tribe and the university goes well beyond the football field. Tribal members are included in our graduate ceremonies, homecoming. The school offers a class in Seminole history and there are scholarships for Seminole students.

KYLE DONEY, SEMINOLE & FSU GRADUATE: This design right here, called man on a horse --

ZARRELLA: The jacket Kyle Doney wears symbolizing the link between the Seminoles and Florida State. Doney is Seminole and went to FSU on scholarship. It works, Doney says, for a simple reason.

DONEY: I think it was just acceptance on both sides.

ZARRELLA: But acceptance has not been universal. Support from the Seminole tribe in Oklahoma is, at best, lukewarm, telling us they're neutral on the matter.

Might the ongoing Washington controversy blow back on FSU?

BARREN: I'm not going to be surprised if in any year we have someone who says, is this appropriate?

ZARRELLA: To anyone who stirs it up, says Chairman Billy --

BILLY: Stay out of our territory.

ZARRELLA: John Zarrella, CNN, Tallahassee, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Next, honoring the true heroes. Coming up, we'll introduce you to a very special woman who is unselfishly reaching out to help her community, as part of our all-star tribute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Now, for some other stories making news today.

That fireball was triggered by a pipeline explosion in Missouri last night. It happened at the Panhandle Eastern Pipeline Company. Fortunately, no injuries. And that fire there has been put out.

Now to sports. With only eight seconds left, his team out of time- outs and down two points, Brooklyn Nets Coach Jason Kidd spilled his drink on the court when bumped by one of his own players. Kidd appears to be mouthing the words, "Hit me." That stopped play, giving Kidd time to draw up a final play. In the end, it didn't matter, the Nets lost the game. But the NBA has called foul, saying Kidd intentionally spilled the drink and slapped him with a $50,000 fine. That's one expensive soda.

Despite early fears, it looks like the so-called comet of the century survived its close encounter with the sun. Scientists had thought the comet Ison disintegrated when it passed by the sun, but they now believe a chunk, at least, of Ison's nucleus did survive. They say it's throwing off dust and probably gas, and the future is still uncertain. Hope we still get to see it.

We're now two days away from the "CNN Heroes All-Star Salute." One woman saw low-income families in her community were falling behind because they didn't have access to computers, so she used her own retirement savings to find a way to bridge that digital divide.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ESTELLA PYROM, CNN HERO: My name is Estella Pyfrom. I am 76 years young.

(LAUGHTER)

He said, key.

PYFROM: During my lifetime, I never felt out of sync with my community.

We have extra bread, so take as much bread as you like.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, thank you.

PYFROM: I grew up in these neighborhoods. I have worked with these families for more than 50 years. I taught their children. I taught their grandchildren. So I know what's going on in the neighborhoods.

In today's time, many of our children don't have computers at home. And low-income families don't have transportation to get to where the computers are.

As I was coming up through the age of retirement, I decided that I wasn't quite ready to just go home and sit in a rocking chair. I had more to offer. I figured out a way to bring technology into the neighborhood.

Here we are, Estella's Brilliant Bus.

(SINGING)

PYFROM: This is a way that students and families can be more informed.

You know your passwords?

Better educated, better connected in the world.

You want to make sure as you go through the lessons, OK?

Kids who don't have access to computers will be left behind. Reading, math, science, social studies, it's all available to the students.

How are we doing here?

Once they get on the bus, they are glued to these computers.

I had a five-year financial plan to be able to build and keep the Brilliant Bus. I'm proud to say that I just made my last payment on the Brilliant Bus. So it is here to stay. We are on the move.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: One woman making a real difference.

Don't miss "CNN Heroes All-Star Tribute" this Sunday, December 1st, at 8:00 p.m. eastern time.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern on "The Situation Room."

NEWSROOM continues right now with Ashleigh Banfield.