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Four Killed In Train Derailment Identified; Tuberculosis Scare On Flight; Police: Speed A Factor In Walker Crash; Gupta: Experts Worry About "Moral Hazard" When People Ignore Their Medical Warnings; Disabled Baby Denied Heart Transplant

Aired December 02, 2013 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO, NEW YORK: There were two black boxes. One was in the cab in the front. One was in the back. They've downloaded both. That will give you the speed of the train, whether the train was going too fast. There is a 70-mile-per-hour speed limit just north of where we are. Trains are supposed to slow down to about 30 miles per hour for the curve. I'll tell you the break were applied if they were when - so that -- that really should narrow it down. And again if it was something that could be avoided or was it just operator error?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Alexandra Field is on the scene in the Bronx with more. Good morning.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Right now, we are seeing these rail cars lifted up and put back on the tracks. The NTSB is trying to reconstruct the scene of this accident. As they do that, police are leading cadaver dogs around the train one more time although we are told that authorities believed that all passengers who were on board that train have been accounted for.

Four people were killed in the crash. Three were thrown from the train and we now know their names. They are 54-year-old Donna Smith, 35-year-old Ahn Kisook, 59-year-old James Ferrari and 58-year-old James Lovell. We are also hearing from the people who survived on board that train. They are telling us about the terrifying moments as the train headed to the edge of the Harlem River.

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AMANDA SWANSON, SURVIVED METRO-NORTH TRAIN DERAILMENT: As the train started to derail, I just noticed that my body was a serious incline and that woke me up. It wasn't the noise. I had headphones and I had music playing and then once I opened my eyes, I became aware of the screeching. And I realized like this is a train crash and this is happening right now.

The train I apparently went to the left and then to the right and when it flipped so I wind going kind of up one side and then just rode into where I was technically on the ceiling and when it landed, I fell to the side where the windows have been smashed out into the ground.

All of those windows had broken through gravel and glasses. Big rocks that line the track were all flying into the windows. The only thing I was thinking was I have to stay alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: The question remains how did something like this happened. The NTSB says they have broken their investigators up into teams. Each team will investigative a different factor that could have contributed to the crash. They will look at the condition of the track. They'll look at the mechanical equipment on board. They'll look at human performance. They'll look at the signals. Investigators say they expect to be here between seven and ten days still -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Alexandra Field, thanks so much. Later this hour, we'll talk to a former vice chairman of the NTSB about that derailment.

A man who allegedly had active tuberculosis created quite a scare on a U.S. Airways express flight from Austin, Texas to Phoenix. According to CNN affiliate, ABC 15, well, that plane landed in Phoenix on Saturday night. It stop short at the gate. Paramedics and police then boarded the plane and removed that man. Passengers were then advised to get TB test. Scary, right?

Well, let's bring Dr. William Schaffner with the Vanderbilt Medical Center to talk about the risk. Welcome, Doctor.

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, VANDERBILT MEDICAL CENTER: Hi, Carol. Good to be with you.

COSTELLO: Nice to be with you too. So passengers on board that plane were told to get TB test. How likely is it that they could come down with TB?

SCHAFFNER: Well, fortunately, the likelihood is very small. What you need is a person with indeed active, untreated tuberculosis who is a real transmitter and even in those cases, the risk is small. The risk is greatest for the people sitting two rows ahead of and two rows behind the individual.

COSTELLO: And then would you catch it, you know, if he sneezes or something like that? Maybe he put a blanket over him and there are germs in the blanket and the passenger next to him touch the blanket? I mean, how would it be transmitted?

SCHAFFNER: It's transmitted in the air. The person would be coughing and exhaling the TB bacteria. We don't have to worry about the in- adamant environment, those blankets and the seat rest and the like. It's how the air is transmitted and handled in the plane. And that's why the people two rows ahead and the people two rows behind are at the increased risk.

Having a TB skin test done by your local health department, that will tell you what the story is and even it converts, we have good treatment than can take care of that without you becoming sick.

COSTELLO: You know, paramedics and police went on board that plane and removed that man. So if I were a passenger and I saw that, that would really freak me out.

SCHAFFNER: Well, all of us would be freaked out, but they have to get good information and I'm sure the local health department is providing that as we go forward if there is a genuine risk.

COSTELLO: Dr. William Schaffner, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

SCHAFFNER: A pleasure, Carol.

COSTELLO: California police now say speed was indeed a factor in Saturday's accident that killed "Fast and Furious" star, Paul Walker. Last week, Walker gave what would become one of his final interviews. He describes what he learned from his latest role in the movie "Hours."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WALKER: The machine is life, just endlessly cranking and we're running around, and we're trying to joggle all these balls, and we're running all over the place. And when they all hit the floor, we panic, there's really no need because -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything is smooth.

WALKER: -- focus it's right here. That's what important. It's of the heart, it's family, it's friend. The rest nonsense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It's unclear how fast the car going, but these photos shot by CNN show figure-eight skid marks near the crash scene. According to the Los Angeles Sheriff's Office, it's unclear whether these marks are related to the crash.

This morning we're also learning new details about who was behind the wheel of that deadly accident. CNN Nischelle Turner is in New York with more on that. Good morning.

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hi, good morning, Carol. You know, on Saturday, Paul Walker's representative told us he was not driving the car. Now police are confirming it was indeed his close friend and business partner who was behind the wheel.

Now I want to show you a picture. This picture is believed to be one of the last pictures taken of Paul Walker just minutes before the crash.

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TURNER (voice-over): "Fast and Furious" co-star, Tyrese Gibson overcome with grief Sunday. The Santa Clarita crash site where 40- year-old Paul Walker died now a shrine to one of Hollywood's bankable Box Office stars. Police now say Walker was in the passenger seat of this 2005 Porsche Carrera GT. This photo snapped just 30 minutes before the car slammed into a pole and burst in flames.

The mangled wreckage apparently captured on this YouTube video. Police say speed may have been a factor. CNN affiliate, K-Cal TV has identified the driver as Roger Rodas, a business partner who ran a high performance auto shop nearby. Both men were drivers on the shop's race team. The pair just left a charity event for Walker's organization, "Reach Out Worldwide."

An eerie end for an actor whose career was launched by the high octane movie franchise about elicit street racing. Walker's love of speed both on and off the set was well-known. He spoke to CNN in 2001 about making "Fast & Furious" and life imitating art.

WALKER: I bought a Nissan imported it from Japan. So the steering wheel is on the right hand side. I race it actually.

TURNER: Production is now at a standstill on the seventh film set to wrap this month in Atlanta. Walker's new film "Hours" about a father struggling through Hurricane Katrina is due out this month. He leaves behind his 15-year-old daughter, Meadow, and will be remembered for the passion he brought to everything he did.

WALKER: It's just amazing. I mean, the things that I've seen, the things that I've seen, the people that I've meet in that short period of time, it's just -- you know, I don't know how to end.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TURNER: Carol, if you can bear with me for a just a second, I'm getting some last minute information here from CNN Allen Duke who was on the scene this weekend and who has some breaking information in this case. Allen says that the Los Angeles County Sheriff's deputy who was in charge of the scene on Saturday night is telling CNN that investigators are looking into the possibility that another car could have been involved in the crash that killed Paul Walker.

He also said that investigators got a phone tip over the weekend that suggests that the red Porsche Carrera GT could have been drag racing on the wide business park street when it crashed into a light pole Saturday afternoon. This is what the investigators telling Allen Duke that quote, "Naturally from an investigative standpoint we need to find out if this is one of the issues."

They're also saying that they're looking into the possibility that another car veered in front of the Porsche and caused the crash. This is all information again from CNN's Allen Duke. He also says that Sergeant Richard Cohen said that the street has a reputation for fast drivers and drag racing. And there was a crackdown in that area by deputies just two years ago.

Also, we're looking at those skid marks. Those are pictures that Allen took near the scene about 150 yards from where the car crash was on Saturday. He says as for the skid marks on the asphalt, which do indicate that a car was doing donut spins on the street, they are also still looking at that information.

So that, again, from CNN's Allen Duke, new information on this investigation into the crash that killed actor, Paul Walker.

COSTELLO: That is just eerily because that would truly be life imitating art.

TURNER: Exactly and we just actually just a few minutes ago heard from Universal Pictures, who is the studio behind the "Fast & Furious" franchise, and they told us that they are now trying to decide whether or not they will delay the release of "Fast & Furious" 7. It's slated for release on July 7th right now.

But they've got a tough decision here, Carol, because they have to decide whether or not to release a film where Paul Walker racing behind the wheel of a car and doing high octane stunts in a car just a few months after his death.

I have to tell you. I was watching football this weekend and they are now running commercial of the Blue Ray release of "Fast & Furious 6" , which featured Paul Walker, which featured Paul Walker driving fast behind the wheel of a car. It was jarring to me. I saw it a couple of times this weekend and it's a jarring sight to see.

COSTELLO: Just unbelievable. I know you'll keep us posted with any new information coming in. Thanks so much. Nischelle Turner reporting live for us today.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Black Friday is so yesterday. Now it's all about Cyber Monday, baby. Casey Wian is tracking the action for one leading shoe retailer. Casey, hi.

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Here at Zappos, the online retailer, this is the biggest day of the year for them. The company says they're already on their way to setting a record. We'll have more, coming up.

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COSTELLO: The problems with the healthcare.gov web site are well- known, and of course, it has caused political problems for the president as well. Today the White House says the Obamacare web site is now running better than ever after tech teams scrambled to meet a self-imposed deadline to fix the site this weekend.

Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us now. So have you been on the site?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I've tried to get on the site and you know, this morning, had a pretty good luck with it. Yesterday got an error message just briefly, but then hit refresh and it seemed to work pretty well. A lot different than back in October when we were trying -- they say, look, it can handle 50,000 concurrent users now. I think it was only a few hundred, frankly before. That's a lot better. One question to look for as we go forward is that the web site is working well, how well is that information actually getting to insurance companies? Some insurance companies are saying we're not getting these applicants or getting two applications. So if people show up in January or February fully expecting to be insured and they're not, that's going to be a problem. We're going to keep an eye on that. But the web site itself does appear to be working better.

COSTELLO: OK, so just one other question about the website itself. You know, they need an awful lot of people to sign up, right? And the website has become a national joke. And even if it's up and running more smoothly, will people really believe that?

GUPTA: I think there's been a loss of confidence. There's no question. I will say, psychologically, Carol, people do wait to sign up for things until the end, no matter what it is. So you know, we're talking about the end of March. They are expecting 7 million people to sign up. Last numbers we have are about 200,000. Obviously nowhere near close, but you could see a huge sort of upturn in February and March as people finally realize the deadline is coming.

COSTELLO: As they say, time will tell, right? You wrote an interesting opinion piece for CNN.com and you said we're focusing on the web site and everybody having health insurance and we shouldn't be focusing on that. What do you mean?

GUPTA: Well, you know, I think this has become a horse race. We keep talking about the numbers. Frankly, you're a little sick of talking about it. I am as well. I think most people are. I think, you know, as you say, time will tell in terms of how people go back and judge this. But I think the important point, if we're to look back 100 years on this is did we somehow make America a healthier place.

And one thing I wrote about and looked at a lot of studies from the past, insurance alone does not do that. We're focusing on this idea of access. That's important. But there are plenty of studies out there including a fascinating experiment out of Oregon where they had people who recently got Medicaid and very similar people who did not because it was a lottery system.

And they compared those people and they found the people who got Medicaid went to the doctor more. They did get more care, but they weren't any healthier if you look across all sorts of different types of measures of that.

COSTELLO: Even though they went to the doctor more?

GUPTA: Even though they went to the doctor. Because we've gotten used to the idea that you go to the doctor when you are sick or get preventive screening. But the idea of optimizing ourselves and doing what we can to keep ourselves healthy, that gets lost and diminished in all of this. People say I got insurance now, I maybe can be a little more risky in terms of my behaviors.

There was a study that showed this. It's called the moral hazard. When people got Medicare, especially men for example, they tended to exercise less and pick up smoking again and drink more. That's the exact thing you're trying to prevent from happening. So access alone is not going to achieve the goal that I think we all agree on that we want to be a more healthy America.

COSTELLO: But something having insurance will do is pay for the care that you need when you do get sick, right?

GUPTA: Absolutely. It gives you that peace of mind. I think people who have insurance are less likely to become bankrupt because of medical bills, less likely to be depressed because of anxiety. But again, the bigger goal, the goal that we wished we had from the very start was we want to be healthier.

And that's going to lead to all of these positive things as well. We can't simply rest on access alone. We got to do this. There was a study that came out of the "Journal of Circulation," just 30 minutes a day, all Americans do that, we would reduce heart attacks and risk of stroke by a third.

COSTELLO: That would require getting off the couch. I do it. I have to.

GUPTA: But only about half Americans come anywhere close to that.

COSTELLO: Sanjay, thank you. And if you want to read more, CNN.com is the place to go. And be sure and catch "SANJAY GUPTA, M.D." every Saturday at 4:30 p.m. Eastern Time and Sundays at 4:30 and 7:30 in the morning Eastern Time on Sunday, right? Thanks, Sanjay. We'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: Just eight months ago, baby Maverick Higgs was in the fight of his life after being born with a heart defect. His fight god harder when the doctors said he did not qualify for a heart transplant. Maverick's mother says she believes her son was denied a transplant because doctors didn't want to waste the organ or on her son because he suffers from a rare genetic disorder. CNN's senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, has more for you.

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ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eight months ago, Autumn says she was told his son was going to die.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn't want to play or be touched. He slept all day, every day. It was miserable.

COHEN: Maverick was six months old and desperately needed a new heart. But his doctors at New York Presbyterian Hospital said no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was scared that he was going to die. Every day, that's the only thing that I thought of. There was actually a point where we were planning his funeral.

COHEN: Maverick, who is one now, was unlucky enough to be born with two medical problems. The heart defect and a rare genetic disorder. Doctors said he was an undesirable candidate for a transplant because his genetic defect would limit his survival after he got a new heart.

(on camera): But you did your own research?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

COHEN: And what did you find?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That that is not true.

COHEN (voice-over): Jinkus (ph) didn't accept what the doctors told her. She asked some of the world's top experts about her son's disorder called Coffin-Cyrus syndrome and they said it would not limit his chances of survival with the new heart. That's what they told us too.

Dr. Grange Coffin, he's the Coffin in the Coffin-Cyrus syndrome, the scientist who discovered it told us it's wrong to deny someone a transplant because of the syndrome. So what do they think was the real reason the hospital denied their son a heart transplant. They think it's because of his genetic defect makes him developmentally disabled.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told them that I knew that they didn't want to waste a heart on him because they felt like he was going to be delayed. Hearts are very rare and I understand that, but I also understand that Maverick is a baby and he needed a heart.

COHEN (on camera): Do you think they sort of discredited his life and future?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. And if they were to say otherwise, they would be lying.

COHEN (voice-over): Maverick was dying. She pleaded with the doctors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just said going to you guys please reconsider this. Reconsider transplant for Maverick. And, sorry, there's nothing we can do about it. Sorry. And they just get up and walk out of the room. That was it and just left me there. I remember I was laughing because I was laughing with tears because I was in shock. I could not really believe that that was really happening. We're talking about my son's life and you're looking at your watch and you just walked out on me.

COHEN: New York Presbyterian declined our repeated request for an interview. And they told us, our evaluations are conducted with compassion and bring the best ethical, medical and scientific principles to the process. Maverick's parents didn't give up. They filed a discrimination complaint against the hospital and got him transferred to a new hospital that didn't have the same traps plant concerns.

Eventually it turned out that Maverick got better without a transplant, but that hasn't ended the controversy about whether transplant doctors discriminate against patients with disabilities.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: That's a tough story. How did his heart repair itself?

COHEN: Well, it's not exactly clear happened. When he was at New York Presbyterian, the mother says they didn't do anything. He was dying and he was in heart failure. It's documented in the medical records. When they got to Boston Children's Hospital, they tinkered with his medications, change things up and he got better without a transplant. So something that the Boston hospital did that the New York Presb's (ph) didn't do appears to have gotten him better.

COSTELLO: OK, so they filed suit, this couple.

COHEN: They filed a complaint.

COSTELLO: So what happens now?

COHEN: What happens now is that the Office of Civil Rights is going to look at that complaint and see if his civil rights were denied. By denying him the transplant, were they denying it because of his disability? If they find that he was, it's going to be a problem for the hospital.

COSTELLO: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much. We'll be right back.

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