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Interview With Melissa Etheridge; One Year Since Newtown; Bernie Madoff Speaks Out From Prison

Aired December 09, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we roll on. You're watching CNN, hour two. I'm Brooke Baldwin live in New York for you today. We begin with a new and horrific reminder that the online world can be dangerous and at times deadly. Now it's happened to an Indiana father with the best of intentions. Indianapolis police say an Iraq war vet was murdered at this apartment complex Wednesday after he responded to an ad on Craigslist.

Our affiliate, WRTV reports James Vestor was hoping to buy a used iPad as a Christmas present for his parents. And now police have arrested two brothers, ages 18 and 19, for allegedly shooting and killing him.

With me now, former police detective, Mike Brooks, law enforcement analyst from our sister network, HLN, but first Ted Rowlands, let's begin with you. You're following this investigation here. Do we even know how this sergeant was murdered? We understand he took precautions when he arranged the meeting?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes.

And he was meeting the people -- he didn't know who he was meeting, except that he was going to meet someone who was going to sell him this iPad. And he knew he was going to a tough area, if you will, of Indianapolis on the west side, so he met in a public spot, which he thought was safe, I'm sure, an apartment complex parking lot.

BALDWIN: Wow.

ROWLANDS: And he made a point of making the meeting during the day. But, as you mentioned, it's just horribly, horribly tragic. This is a guy, he served in the Iraq war, he came back, was a full-time mechanic in Indianapolis with the National Guard there. He also, according to friends and colleagues, volunteered to honor fallen soldiers around the country, an incredible guy, they say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. NICHOLAS WALL, INDIANA NATIONAL GUARD: He gave up a lot of his own personal time with his family, his friends to pay those respects to our other fallen service members. To me, that just shows the character of the man that he is, giving up time where he could just have been home with his wife and his baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ROWLANDS: His Jamie, baby Gavin, a 1-year-old, everybody says that they were his world. These two teenagers are expected to be in court tomorrow morning. Formal charges are expected to be filed later this afternoon, Brooke, but a senseless, senseless act of murder.

BALDWIN: Here's a man willing to sacrifice this life for this nation, and he is shot and killed trying to buy his parents an iPad. It's disgusting.

And, Mike, to you, because here he is meeting in this, you know, semi- public location, in this parking lot of an apartment complex. We all use Craigslist. What's your advice to us?

MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, number one, you want to use your common sense. And, you know, it's interesting.

Right on Craigslist, there is a list of safety precautions to take. And I think the most important one on this one, Brooke, the last one, trust your instincts. You know, it also says if you're going to meet somewhere, meet in a public place. He thought he was.

But you may want to meet in a public place that may have more people around that would also have possible surveillance cameras in a downtown area and not in a sketchy area, because, apparently, he knew he was going to a fairly sketchy area of Indianapolis.

BALDWIN: Rough neighborhood. Yes.

BROOKS: Right. But, again, use your instincts, but, again, a senseless, senseless killing.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. Mike Brooks, thank you very much. Ted Rowlands on the investigation, thank you.

And now to this, to the anniversary no one wants to recognize, but everyone understands the need to. This Saturday will mark one year since a gunman murdered 27 people in Newtown, including 20 first- graders. City officials, they have spoken today. They asked members of the media not to come to town, saying it will only add to their pain on that day. And I can tell you now that CNN will respect those wishes. We have decided not to go to Newtown this Saturday. We will cover the story from afar.

But this afternoon, some of the victims' families, these moms and dads, they talked to the media and they explained how they will remember their little ones this upcoming Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOANN BACON, MOTHER OF SANDY HOOK VICTIM: We ask that you consider performing an act of kindness or volunteering with a charitable organization in your own local community.

We hope that some small measure of good may be returned to the world. This concludes our family statement. I would like to add that our family will be lighting a candle on the eve of 12/14, the last night we spent with our sweet Charlotte.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we will be lighting a candle for our beautiful little girl Jessica.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will be lighting a candle on behalf of Jesse McCord Lewis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to light a candle in honor of our daughter Emily.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will light a candle for my mom, Dawn Hochsprung.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will light a candle for my older sister Victoria.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will be lighting a candle for my sweet boy Jack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will be lighting a candle in honor of our beautiful girl Grace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will be lighting a candle for our gorgeous daughter Avielle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will be lighting a candle for our beautiful daughter Ana.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will be lighting a candle for our sweet son Daniel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will be lighting a candle for my daughter Lauren.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will light a candle for Chase.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will be lighting a candle for our irrepressible Benny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The families have also set up this Web site. It's mySandyhookfamily.org as a way for the public to communicate with them.

CNN is remembering the Sandy Hook victims. We want you to watch an Anderson Cooper special report honoring the children, "Newtown: One Year Later." That's Wednesday night at 10:00 Eastern here on CNN.

Coming up next, the man who stole billions of dollars from investors has a startling claim now from behind bars, basically saying don't, blame me. Bernie Madoff speaking out and says the biggest Ponzi scheme in history was not his fault. See who he says is to blame and what he regrets most about the crime.

Plus, Russia's controversial anti-gay law has got the attention of international superstars. You have Elton John performing in Moscow this weekend, speaking out very publicly about the law. And I spy her out of the corner here. Melissa Etheridge has just walked into our CNN studios in New York. She's another singer who is very outspoken on the topic, even recently writing a song about that. My conversation with Melissa Etheridge coming up next live here on CNN. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Talk about a who's-who of world leaders now converging on South Africa to attend tomorrow's massive memorial service for Nelson Mandela.

You see here President Obama. He is on his way. He's leading this delegation of U.S. politicians and dignitaries. Joining the Obamas on this plane on Air Force One, you have former Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton,also George and Laura Bush, several others. They're all getting everything ready for this massive memorial, huge undertaking, in such a brief period of time. Just think of the logistics here.

This is just the beginning. After the memorial, Mandela will lie in state for three days and then be buried on Sunday.

And our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, is live now from Johannesburg, where it's just after 10:00 at night your time, Christiane.

And let's begin here with this massive undertaking, the logistics and really the security at this stadium.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: yes, indeed, they're going obviously, as you can imagine, all out for security, and of course President Obama is bringing three former U.S. presidents with him, not just George W. Bush, but President Clinton and President Carter.

They're all going to come. President Obama is due to speak at the memorial tomorrow, and this is going to be a huge event. Most people think it's going to be a really raucous, joyous event, a lot of music, a lot of singing, a lot of celebration. It's going to have 95,000 people there. And they are coming on a first-come, first-serve basis. There are no tickets.

Let's hope that that's all an organized line. I can tell you it's taking a long time to get credentials. They're all being very, very careful about everything. So, they're taking this all very seriously, as you can imagine. But it's a clear manifestation of the massive respect in which Nelson Mandela was, is, and will continue to be held throughout the world -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: His ability to gather and unify during life and after death as well. And let's talk about this massive gathering. You said 95,000 people. A lot of personalities there, yes?

AMANPOUR: There are certainly going to be a lot of personalities, but they make up sort of the VIP delegation.

There are apparently 90 or so heads of state, and all other the other personalities you have been mentioning. There's Oprah and Bono and all sorts of people coming, but the bulk of the people will be ordinary people. They will be South Africans who have been invited to come to this iconic soccer stadium.

It is the stadium where Nelson Mandela gave his first speech after being released from prison. And it's very important. It's also the stadium, one of them, where one of the World Cup matches were held in 2010, and that was -- that went off beautifully. You know, back then, people were worried, oh, my goodness, can South Africa get through the World Cup? What about security, what about the infrastructure?

And, of course, South Africa got through it with flying colors. So, nobody is doubting that the memorial tomorrow will go off just as well.

BALDWIN: We will be watching very, very early our time here in the States. Christiane, thank you very much for us in South Africa.

And now this:

Openly gay singer Elton John used a sold-out show in Moscow to challenge a highly contentious Russian law, banning the -- quote -- "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations to minors." Now, this law effectively makes it illegal to explain same-sex relationships to kids. It has sparked all kinds of protests around the world.

You have Lady Gaga, you have Madonna also taking to the stage, slamming the country's clampdown on homosexuality. But unlike Elton John, they are both now banned from ever entering the country again, and now another superstar joins the list, furious with the Russian government's anti-gay laws, This woman, Melissa Etheridge, singer, songwriter, co-founder of Uprising of Love, this private fund-raiser for what's happening here in Russia, the Russian Freedom Fund in support of the LGBT in Russia.

So, it's lovely to meet you truly, truly.

MELISSA ETHERIDGE, MUSICIAN: Nice to meet you.

BALDWIN: Let's begin though with what we just played, a little bit of Elton John, over the weekend speaking out, and really taking that moment, this sold-out show in Moscow, to send a message. Do you think he should have not performed at all, and that would have sent a bigger message?

ETHERIDGE: No, I think what you're seeing here is the place where we realize change comes not by boycotting anymore, not by just not showing up, but by going there, because there's a whole gay and lesbian community in Russia, huge community, that was making strides like we have here in America. They have been moving forward.

And this is one of the first times we have seen things go back and try to be pulled back. And so Elton showing up there, being part of it, giving a message, saying I'm here, I'm supporting you. We can move through this together, is what the whole Uprising of Love is, and what the whole coalition is about.

BALDWIN: Uprising of Love, what is it?

ETHERIDGE: Uprising of Love came from a song. I wrote a song, "Uprising of Love," when I was given the details of what was happening, when I saw what was happening in Russia.

But the way I respond is always a very emotional place. I have always believed, I'm not going to get anywhere by saying you're wrong. You shouldn't feel that way. That's not going to do it.

BALDWIN: Not going to work.

ETHERIDGE: What is going to do it is the way that we have done it for 20 years now. The way I have done it is to show up and say I'm a human being. I contribute to the society. I'm just like you. And when people come out and when a community feels safe to say, I give to this community, I help, when you do that, it can -- change can happen.

BALDWIN: We will get back to the song in a minute. But so I think I'm going to -- I will guess how your answer will be, but in terms of boycotting let's say the Sochi Olympics vs. actually -- because there are people, in fact, just recently, the German president said he's boycotting the Olympics. We have heard from Lady Gaga, boycotting the Olympics. Don't go, don't go to Russia. But then you have those even within Russia saying come, saying come, but boycott homophobia. Where do you stand?

ETHERIDGE: Yes, absolutely, boycott the idea. Show up.

(CROSSTALK)

ETHERIDGE: Especially as a gay person, it's easy for me to say, by me just showing up, I don't know if I can show up, I don't know if I can go yet, but...

BALDWIN: Would you want to go?

ETHERIDGE: I would. I would want to just -- because I'm known as a gay person, just by showing up and saying I'm standing here fearless because I believe we as human beings can do this, we can get past this fear that somehow there's something dangerous in this.

BALDWIN: So, what would you say or would you let your presence speak for itself?

ETHERIDGE: Yes, I would show up, I would be there. I would say to the gay community, come, just stand with me, just -- and the whole community, everyone stand, because you can't tell just looking at people, really, if they're gay or not.

BALDWIN: So are you going to Sochi?

ETHERIDGE: I don't know. I don't know. Stay tuned. (CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: OK. Stay tuned. Do we have a guitar anywhere? Do we have a guitar?

ETHERIDGE: Someone said you had a guitar.

BALDWIN: I believe somebody said we had a guitar.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: This is "Uprising of Love." This is the song that you're debuting tonight.

ETHERIDGE: Is it tuned?

BALDWIN: It should be tuned.

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BALDWIN: Yes?

ETHERIDGE: I'm just going to do a little bit to show you.

BALDWIN: A little bit.

ETHERIDGE: Because it's a protest song, but it's a love song. OK?

BALDWIN: I'm ready.

(SINGING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: It is D-Day for the disgraced former mayor of San Diego, Bob Filner sentenced today for kissing and grabbing three women. He will serve 90 days in home confinement, pay a fine, and serve three years probation. Filner resigned from office after 19 women came forward accusing him of harassment during his tenure as mayor and as U.S. congressman.

Here's another name for you. Bernie Madoff, former titan of Wall Street, says people on the outside won't take his calls from the prison pay phone, not his wife, not his son, not his brother Peter, who is also serving time. No one is talking to Bernie. Five years ago this Wednesday, Bernie Madoff posed for the feds, famous mug shots.

He later pleaded guilty to scamming investors out of billions of dollars, the biggest financial fraud in U.S. history. As to the many people he robbed, including some who just lost it all, Madoff is now telling "The Wall Street Journal" it is their fault, not his fault, their fault.

Here's a quote from that interview with "The Wall Street Journal." "People ask me all the time, how did I produce those great returns? I refused to tell them," says Madoff, "and they still invested." He says it was up to them to ask more questions.

Aaron Smith of CNN Money is with me and Aaron Smith has spoken to Bernie Madoff before from that prison down in North Carolina before.

And from your interview, he was a bit contrite until it sounds like a follow-up phone call which we will get to, but this interview with the "Wall Street Journal," a different tone.

AARON SMITH, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I actually spoke to him a few times. It was several months ago. It was about six months ago over the phone. And he did seem to -- he said he felt bad...

BALDWIN: He felt bad.

SMITH: ... about some of the victims. He felt very bad, he was telling me, about his son committing suicide.

BALDWIN: Very tragic.

SMITH: And he accepted responsibility for it. Then he said he also probably caused the heart attack of Jeffry Picower, who was one of his biggest investors early on.

But then he segued directly into blaming Picower and two other major investors, Norman Levy and Carl Shapiro, for basically prompting him to start the Ponzi scheme, because they didn't bail him out after the Black Monday crash of 1987. He needed their help. They refused to help him, so he had to start a Ponzi scheme.

BALDWIN: But the initial phone call you had with him, pretty contrite, but then you told me, because it sounds like he had such a different tone with "The Wall Street Journal" reporter, he even followed up and called you back, Aaron. You have Bernie Madoff calling you up, yelling at you.

SMITH: Yes, the last conversation I had with him was in June. He called me up. I was driving through Austin, stop-and-go traffic. I get this call on my BlackBerry. It's Bernie yelling at me.

He didn't like the story, and he said that -- well, he claimed he never mentioned Black Monday in 1987. He claimed that he told me he started the Ponzi scheme in 1992. And so I said to him, well, Bernie, actually, you did not say that to me. We had a bit of a back and forth.

Interestingly, Frank DiPascali, who's the government witness in the ongoing federal court trial, was just saying a few days ago that he had been working for Bernie since 1975, and fraudulent activity had been going on for as long as he could remember.

BALDWIN: Wow.

SMITH: So we're all different kinds of timelines here and no one really knows when Bernie Madoff started the Ponzi scheme, maybe not even Bernie himself. BALDWIN: He's got a lot of time to think about it, I suppose, in prison in North Carolina. Aaron Smith with CNN Money, thank you very much for sharing your fascinating phone conversations with this man.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You use the Web sites all the time, Facebook, Google, Twitter, tech giants writing a letter to Washington asking tough questions about online surveillance. Sounds like they're looking out for you, right? Our next guest says the companies are hypocrites and this is just a plain, flat public relations move. We will talk about that.

Plus, this. Ouch. These are sheets of ice crashing onto these cars, smashing them, and that is not it. Thousands of flights canceled today, roads extraordinarily slick. When will the early winter blast end? We will talk weather coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)