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Police Chief Slams Kanye West Remark; Fox News Anchor: Jesus and Santa Are White; FBI Arrests Man In Plot To Bomb Airport

Aired December 13, 2013 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Kanye, so who is he ticking off this time? That would be a police chief. Why? Because Kanye West suggested being a rapper is just as dangerous as being a soldier or an officer. I won't even comment. I'm going to let David Oliver do the talking. He's -- here's Debra Lee from WEWS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBRA LEE, WEWS REPORTER (voice-over): Brimfield Police Chief David Oliver has more than 94,000 likes on his department's Facebook page, but none of his famous posts have gone as viral as this one when he took on Kanye West.

CHIEF DAVID OLIVER, BRIMFIELD, OHIO POLICE: What I simply said in the post I wrote was I'm calling for you to immediately retire from your entertainment act and join the military and be deployed. If you do those things, then maybe you'll get a firm grasp on what it's like to be in the military.

LEE: The whole thing started when West told "Saturday Night Online" how dangerous he thinks his job is on stage.

KANYE WEST: This is like being a police officer or something, like war or something.

OLIVER: I was offended because I just don't think that any entertainer can compare what they do to ducking bullets for a living.

LEE: Chief Oliver knows firsthand how dangerous police work is, but he's more offended by the military comparison. This is a man who invited thousands of veterans to Brimfield in September to march in a parade. Kanye West really wasn't on his radar much until now. He heard his name, but didn't know about baby North West.

OLIVER: No idea until somebody said his daughter is named after a compass.

LEE: Township Trustee Mike Constensky says he didn't know much about him either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Said he's married to Kim Kardashian.

LEE: But three hours after the post, nearly half a million people had seen it, and ABC was calling.

OLIVER: "Good Morning America" says hello.

LEE: For the Facebook chief, as he's called, just another day at the office.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Debra Lee from our affiliate, WEWS.

And up next here on CNN, political tensions are rising inside the GOP, speaker of the House, John Boehner, lashing out at the Tea Party. We'll talk about the sudden change in tune.

Plus, here's a question for you. You're going crazy about this on social media. I just asked a question. What color is Santa Claus? What about Jesus? A Fox News anchor says they're both white. We're going there. Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: John Boehner has a message for Tea Party Republicans and their hard-line conservative backers. Four words, take a quick listen. This goes by fast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Are you kidding me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I love that. Can you play that again? No? Can you rerack it? All right, we're going to rerack that. I love that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOEHNER: Are you kidding me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Nope, not kidding. That's House Speaker John Boehner going off on some of the Tea Party Republicans. Fellow Republicans, the ones who helped scuttle the budget talks last September. Again, I should add, and they got blamed for the shutdown. Boehner has he finally had enough of these Tea Party folks? I want you to listen again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOEHNER: They pushed us into this fight to defund Obamacare and to shut down the government. Most of you know, my members know, that wasn't exactly the strategy that I had in mind. But if you'll recall, the day before the government reopened, one of the people -- one of these groups stood up and said, well, we never really thought it would work. Are you kidding me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Wolf Blitzer is here with us in Washington. No further introduction necessary for Wolf. Wolf, he was very animated. Is this his declaration of independence from the Tea Party really staunch conservatives on the right?

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": I think it's a very strong, bold statement on his part that he's not going to take it anymore. He had serious problems going into the government shutdown, that whole fight, shut down the government and demand concessions on Obamacare that almost everyone knew the president was not going to make in terms of delaying or defunding or major revisions, at least going into the October 1st start of that rollout.

And he thought that was a big miscalculation because most Americans blamed -- more Americans blamed the Republicans than the Democrats for the government shutdown, the pain that endured over those nearly two weeks and he wasn't going to go through that again. That's why Paul Ryan got his full support, Paul Ryan, the Republican chairman of the House Budget Committee.

They worked out a deal together with the Democratic senator of the -- the Democratic senator from the Budget Committee, Patty Murray, and got a deal that overwhelmingly passed the U.S. House of Representatives yesterday. Only about 65 Republicans voted against it. The majority of Republicans voted, went along with John Boehner and Paul Ryan.

LEMON: Yes, I'm glad you mentioned Paul Ryan because he has been considered sort of the Tea Party darling. At least he's liked by the Tea Party, but his name is all over the budget compromise, and of course, the Tea Party hates that, Wolf. So I want you to listen to him defending the budget from an attack from the right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have said this budget deal, quote, "advances our principles." Marco Rubio said this, though, last night. Quote, "your deal is going to make it harder for Americans to achieve the American dream." Well, what would you say to Marco?

REPRESENTATIVE PAUL RYAN (R), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE BUDGET COMMITTEE: Read the deal and get back to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Listen, Wolf, Boehner says, tells the Tea Party, are you kidding me? And then Paul Ryan smirks and says get back to me. I guess they realize that they took -- their brand took a real hit in this government shutdown and this is the turning of the corner? I'm assuming.

BLITZER: Yes, Paul Ryan and John Boehner, Eric Cantor, they didn't want to go through that fight, another government shutdown in January, that would certainly take away from what they think is a positive hand they have in dealing with the affordable care act right now. So they weren't going to go through that again. That's why they came up with this compromise, a bipartisan deal, words you don't often hear in Washington these days, Don.

It's intriguing to me as a political reporter. I'm sure to you as well. Just imagine if Marco Rubio and Paul Ryan are the front runners for the Republican presidential nomination in 2016. That's going to be a lively Republican debate that's going to unfold, in part because of this current fight they're having over this two-year spending deal as far as the government is concerned.

LEMON: Yes, and Wolf, we'll be watching at 5:00 in "THE SITUATION ROOM," 5:00 Eastern, Wolf will be discussing that and much, much more.

BLITZER: Before I let you go, you know what else we have in "THE SITUATION ROOM" today?

LEMON: Do you have "Anchorman?"

BLITZER: Yes, we have.

LEMON: I knew what you were going to talk about.

BLITZER: Will Ferrell is joining us in "THE SITUATION ROOM." You know, he plays Ron Burgundy. When you became an anchor, you studied Ron Burgundy, right?

LEMON: Of course, I did, I'm Don Lemon? Who put a question mark in the prompter? I can't wait to see the movie. It's a little too much promotion. We just talked about that with Beyonce dropping her album with no promotion, and then this one. It seems like he's everywhere, but it going to probably work. That's what movies need, right?

BLITZER: We're having a little fun. You can't just eat spinach. You need a little ice cream.

LEMON: Wolf, whenever I come on your show, and it's my mission from your producers, I shouldn't tell you this, to make you smile. They'll say at the end, nice job. You made Wolf smile. Thank you, Wolf. I'll see you and Ron Burgundy at 5:00 Eastern in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

A moment now to recognize a Minnesota woman named Gloria Kindzeka, every day doing her job. She shows an uncommon goodness that makes her a stand-out in her profession. It's a profession made up of people dedicated to helping other nurses. She gives full-time care to Kate, a little girl who suffers from a rare genetic disorder. She goes to school with Kate, helps her with her medication, personal hygiene, and much, much more. She's also learning sign language for Kate.

Now, Johnson & Johnson has recognized her as the "2013 Amazing Nurse." She explains to Brooke Baldwin how it's Kate who has helped her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA KINDZEKA, AMAZING NURSE 2013: Kate has left a lasting impression on my life, and I'm so, so proud to have known her because she inspires me every day. The reward of nursing is making the difference in people's lives. It is a great thing to make a difference, to make a change, to bring that change to a patient's life. It's a positive change, and also, when you do positive things, it reflects in your own life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: She's indeed a hero, and this weekend here, the story of another hero, his name is Don Kennely, CNN's "Hero of the Year." See how he works to combat the global water crisis on Sunday 8 p.m. right here on CNN.

Here's a talker for you, Santa Claus is white, and so is Jesus. That from a Fox News anchor. Up next, I'm going to talk to a couple guys who say, nope, not true. Sorry Megyn Kelly. We're going there. Going to be good.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, this is -- everybody is waiting for this segment. So grab your popcorn, turn the volume up in your office, close the door, sit down. Here we go. If you thought Santa Claus or Jesus Christ were anything other than white, Fox News anchor, Megyn Kelly, wants you to know you are wrong.

Kelly says both were white and that's a fact. As you can imagine, a lot of folks disagree with her and they're letting her have it online. So this is what got Kelly to make those comments, this article. It is by Alicia Harris on slate.com. Harris says Santa should not be white anymore. She wrote from here on out, Santa Claus should be a penguin. That's right, a penguin.

Why, you ask? For one thing, making Santa Claus an animal rather than an old white man could spare millions of non-white kids the insecurity and shame that I remember from childhood. Well, Kelly took issue with Harris' article on her show this week, and some people think Kelly should have kept her comments to herself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, FOX NEWS' "THE KELLY FILE": When I saw this headline, I kind of laughed and I said, this is so ridiculous. Yet another person claiming it's racist to have a white Santa. You know, and by the way, for all you kids watching at home, Santa just is white, but this person is just arguing that maybe we should also have a black Santa. Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable doesn't mean it has to change. You know, I mean, Jesus was a white man, too, but it's like, we have -- he was an historical figure, a fact, as is Santa. I want the kids watching to know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Sorry about that. Everybody's kind of laughing here. I want to bring in Jamelle Bouie, a staff writer at the "Daily Beast," and the co-editor of the CNN's Belief Blog, Eric Marripodi. I'm laughing -- listen, I put this online, guys, and I said, what color is Jesus, what color is Santa Claus? Everyone is like going crazy. What color are you, what's wrong with you?

I can't believe I'm discussing either. That's the most responses I think I have gotten in a year on social media is when I put that question up. When I posted something last week about someone who looked like Jesus selling Christmas trees, the internet went crazy.

So Jamelle, in an article that you wrote, you said that Kelly thinks the idea of a racially inclusive Santa Claus is utterly ridiculous and she's wrong. Why is she wrong? Explain that.

JAMELLE BOUIE, STAFF WRITER, "THE DAILY BEAST": I think she's wrong because there's already racially inclusive Santa Clauses. I grew up with a black Santa Claus. All of our Santas were black. Not every family has a white Santa and that's perfectly fine. I think Isha Harris' idea is fine, since there's so many Americans, maybe we should take race out of the question altogether isn't bad at all.

I think if we're trying to err on the side of exclusivity, then definitely a penguin Santa makes sense, but to get outraged at the idea there are non-white Santas is ridiculous because I guarantee you right now if you walk into the home of an African-American person almost anywhere in the country, you would find a black Santa Claus and a black angel and a black Jesus.

LEMON: I think you would find a black Santa Claus in every home because Santa Claus is black in black homes and Santa Claus is white in white homes. Santa Claus is Mexican in Mexican homes. So let me just tell you, Santa Claus to me is a black man.

Now, Eric, I want to ask you this. I was with her. I understood what she meant in the beginning, I think what she meant. I don't want to put words in her mouth because I've been misquoted. But if you look at the depiction of Santa Claus, the popular representation of Santa Claus, if you look at Kriss Kringle, it's a white depiction.

I understand that. There are many who question the authenticity of Santa Claus and Jesus. Where she lost me was the Jesus thing. What do theologians say about the color of Jesus' skin?

ERIC MARRAPODI, CNN CO-EDITOR, BELIEF BLOG: Well, when we look at Jesus as a historical figure you're talking about somebody from the first century who lived in the Middle East. So in all likelihood he would have had an olive complexion. We don't really know. What we do know is how artists have depicted him over the years. Like Santa Claus, oftentimes it's almost a mirror of who is doing the depiction how Jesus turns out.

When you go to Jamaica, you see a Jamaican Jesus. When you go to countries in Asia, you'll see an Asian looking Jesus. Here in the United States and in North America, and you often --

LEMON: I want to say, to Eric and Jamelle, when you mentioned, Jamelle, Santa Claus in black families, you're talking about ornaments and pictures. But not every house I went to had black Santas. There were some white Santas hanging up. As I was researching this, I was researching Santa Claus even in Africa, the traditional American depiction of Santa stands even in countries that are black. So isn't it kind of up to people to decide who their -- what their Santa and Jesus looks like, Jamelle?

BOUIE: I think that's absolutely right. You know, what your Santa or Jesus looks like is up to you, it's whatever you feel most comfortable with. I would agree that when you're talking about the historical Jesus and Kelly during her segment, she took a moment to say that we have historical evidence of what Jesus looked like. An olive skin mans because he was from first century Palestine. He likely had close cropped dark hair and dark eyes and looked like his peers and contemporaries. On that, Kelly is just incorrect, misinformed.

LEMON: Anyone who has studied the bible and anyone who knows about the heritage or roots of Jesus knows that he was a dark skinned person and wasn't a white man. Not probably, wasn't a white man. He was a darker persuasion.

MARRAPODI: He didn't come from Europe. He didn't come from North America. So in saying that is just wrong.

LEMON: OK --

MARRAPODI: With all due respect to Ms. Kelly.

LEMON: I wrote something this week saying Christians should lighten up with what color Jesus is because he's kind of whatever. Is that a fair assessment to say, or do you think we need to broaden our perspective and get a handle on, OK, Jesus is black. Let's all come to a consensus about that. And OK, Santa Claus is black, white, Hispanic, or whatever you want him to be? Jamelle and then Eric.

BOUIE: Well, I think if we're talking about historical Jesus, he likely looked one way. If you're talking about the theological Jesus, the Christ as it were, race doesn't have anything to do with it. Paula Tarsus tells us there's no Greek or Roman in Christ. So if I were -- if I were, you know, if I were someone speaking from religious perspective, I would say, you know, no reason to talk about Jesus being black or white or whatever because it doesn't matter.

LEMON: Yes, I have less than 10 seconds, Eric.

MARRAPODI: Jesus was not white, fact.

LEMON: I love it. Can we back the prompter up a little bit because I want to show you this before we move on here, this is from Josh Barrow. He's at "Business Insider," and he tweeted this with a caption that reads, don't tell Megyn Kelly but a whole foods Santa is black." That's pretty funny. Jamelle, Eric, thank you. Megyn, good luck tonight. We'll be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Top of the hour, everyone. I'm Don Lemon in for Brooke. Thanks for joining me today. A foiled bomb plot in Kansas, an FBI sting operation has led to the arrest of an employee at Wichita's Midcontinent Airport. He's accused of planning to drive a car packed with explosives into the airport terminal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRY GRISSOM, U.S. ATTORNEY: Spent months developing a plan to use his access card to the airport to drive a car loaded with explosives to the terminal. It's alleged he planned to pull the trigger himself and die as a martyr.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Joining me right now CNN's Joe Johns, a crime and justice correspondent. Joe, they were his plans, but it was all a set-up, so how did it all come undone?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, he got set up by a pair of FBI agents, apparently. Though he thought he was about to detonate a car bomb, but when he tried to enter the airport with the vehicle, he ended up arrested. The governor of the state of Kansas, Sam Brownback, was there at the news conference and he essentially talked about what the government did in the case. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOVERNOR SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: In our ongoing war on terrorism, the good guys won one today. A joint operation of federal, state, and local components captured a would-be terrorist before he caused any harm. This is the way your government is supposed to operate, united and effective, and it happened today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: And this guy's name is Terry Loewen. He's apparently a practicing Muslim.

He works at Wichita Airport. Don, as you said, he's charged with attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction, a car bomb, and attempting to provide material support to terrorism. According to court documents, the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's Office said Loewen had an online chat with someone and said he wanted to engage in violent jihad on behalf of al Qaeda. But what he didn't know is that he was chatting online with an FBI employee, Don.

LEMON: OK. Tell me a little more about this, the charges, any more expected? This is a lone wolf, right?

JOHNS: Yes, it sounds like a lone wolf. Sounds like no one else is involved. The only people he apparently talked to were FBI employee number one, who pretty much set him up and talked to him in the chats, and FBI employee number two, who supposedly was going to go along with his ride to jihad, and no one else apparently involved.

LEMON: All right, Joe Johns, thank you very much for that.