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Investors Eye Possible Stimulus Cutbacks; Snowden Investigation; Next Presidential Election; Ryan, Clinton Viewed Favorably in Iowa Polls; Evacuations under Way at Harvard

Aired December 16, 2013 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And there's a big change in timing because a few weeks ago, most expected it to start kind of going away at the beginning of next year but the economy, it's been getting better so recently some strong reports on jobs, auto sales and home sales. Also fewer worries about the government shutting down, that turning the thinking that maybe the Fed could start pulling back on that stimulus as soon as Wednesday. So we could find out once again if the economy's training wheels are ready to come off. So, I tell you what, Carol, forget about that Mega Millions drawing. This is the story that's, you know, really going to affect your portfolio. It could impact stock, mortgage rates, the job market, you name it. Forget that Mega Millions, or maybe not.

Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: But I'd so much rather win $500 million all at once.

KOSIK: Me too, and then invest some of it in the stock market, or something like that. Not!

COSTELLO: Alison Kosik, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, shocking words straight from the National Security Agency, the NSA, about the scope of the Edward Snowden scandal. The man investigating the leaks calls it an intelligence gold mine and he thinks amnesty should be on the table for Edward Snowden. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me.

The keys to the kingdom, that's how a National Security Agency official is describing the scope of just how much information Edward Snowden stole. Candid, startling words from Richard Ledgett, the man leading a task force looking at the effects of those leaks. He was on "60 Minutes" last night. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK LEDGETT, HEAD OF NSA TASK FORCE OF SNOWDEN LEAKS: It would give them a road map of what we know, what we don't know and give them implicitly a way to protect their information from the U.S. intelligence communities here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For an adversary in the intelligence game, that's a gold mine.

LEDGETT: It is the keys to the kingdom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Those other countries talking about countries like China, like Russia, and more. CNN national security analyst Bob Baer joins me now.

I assume that you watched the "60 Minutes" report last night and, I don't know, what revealed was kind of frightening, keys to the kingdom?

BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL ANALYST: Carol, it's grim, it truly is. I think what we're starting to see coming out from Snowden is what we call code breaking. He's been talking about the codes we can break with common cell phones, but I think the assumption at the National Security Agency now is that he's really gotten into the crowned jewels, as it was put, and that is, you know, diplomatic communications and things like that. I mean I cannot exaggerate enough or I can't tell you enough how bad this compromise has been. This has just been a total disaster.

COSTELLO: So the man who leads the task force looking into the Edward Snowden case, he says amnesty should be on the table. That would, of course, supposedly force Snowden to turn over what he has, and that our national security would be safer. Should amnesty be on the table?

BAER: I don't think so. Carol, look, I think the cat's out of the bag. He's compromised what he has. I think the Russians undoubtable know. That was the deal he made with them to stay there, they got to see it. I mean that's speculation, but it's almost certain. You know, frankly, these kind of secrets have never been let out ever in American history. And, you know, should the occasion come, he should go to jail.

COSTELLO: So what can be done to protect our country? Because in listening to that report, I didn't hear many answers.

BAER: You have to clean up the National Security Agency. There's no reason a contractor should have been able to get into these files. I don't know who was leading that place, but this is just completely unacceptable that he could get all of this stuff, thousands and thousands of files, which he's turned over to who knows whom. I mean, you know, it's - they've got to clean it up for a start. I mean you have to go back and you have to, you know, start all over again.

COSTELLO: Yes. And, yet again, it's baffling, nobody's been fired for this. I mean the head of the NSA said he offered to resign, but his resignation was refused.

BAER: You've got to fire people. I mean this is - you know, you don't re-hire the designer of the "Titanic" after it's gone - you know, gone down to build another ship. You - this -- all of this stuff is doable. The CIA did it. It compartmented its databases. No one person could get into all of them. I don't understand why the National Security Agency hadn't done that long before. You know, we just go back to zero and start over.

COSTELLO: Bob Baer, thanks so much for being with me this morning.

BAER: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the next presidential election three years away, but a new poll is out and it gives insight into the very early favorites. I bet you can guess who one of those favorites - oh, there they are! We'll talk about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO: A disturbing bit of breaking news coming out of Harvard University this morning and I'm just going to read what we've gotten from police right now, because I don't want to freak anyone out. Harvard University Police Department received an unconfirmed report that explosives may have been placed in four buildings on campus. Those buildings are the Science Center, Thayer, Sever and Emerson Halls. Of course, the Harvard Police Department and Cambridge Police now on the scene.

Now, out of an abundance of caution, police decided to evacuate parts of the university, the entire university, while this report is being investigated. So far, absolutely no explosives have been found. They've just received an unconfirmed report that there were explosives in those buildings. But again, no explosives have been found, and the university has now been evacuated. Of course we'll keep you posted on any new developments coming out of Harvard.

All right, on with the rest of the news now, specifically politics. He's a co-sponsor of the budget deal that just might bring bipartisanship back to Washington. And now a new poll shows Republican Congressman Paul Ryan is gaining popularity with people who could help any hopes for a 2016 White House run. That is according to "The Des Moines Register," which shows Ryan with a 73 percent favorability rating among Republicans, leading two former caucus winners, Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum.

Now, that's quite a reversal from the conservative value voters poll where Ryan came in sixth. On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton far and away the favorite at 89 percent, with Vice President Joe Biden coming in second with 71 percent.

So let's talk. CNN political analyst and executive editor for "The Daily Beast" John Avlon is here, along with Will Cain, CNN political commentator and columnist for "The Blaze."

Good morning to both of you.

WILL CAIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning. JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

So, Will, I'd like to start with you. Paul Ryan and his budget deal and compromise and bipartisanship seem to have uplifted him in the polls. Is that what --

CAIN: Nah.

COSTELLO: Nah? You --

CAIN: No, no, no. I don't see any connection there, Carol.

Listen, look, I -- look at the names below it, by the way. They've been sure lighting up the news cycle over the past several weeks, right? Rick Perry, Mike Huckabee. What this is, is - I think this shows Iowa voters know Paul Ryan and they like Paul Ryan. I don't think it makes him the favorite in 2016. I don't think it's a reflection of this budget compromise he's put together in the past week or two. It's simply name recognition. Well, name recognition and likability. That's what it is.

COSTELLO: Yes.

AVLON: Well, Carol, wet blanket Will Cain here just throwing a bunch of cold water on this. Look, I mean people in Iowa --

CAIN: Reality.

AVLON: Really do know their politics, they know their politicians and the reversal you point out between Paul Ryan getting passed over in the Value Voters Conference and doing incredibly well in this poll, look, it's not determinative, it doesn't determine a front-runner, but it does reflect his very responsible actions in the past couple weeks to some extent. And that's a good thing. You like seeing Republicans being rewarded for being responsible.

COSTELLO: Well - well -

CAIN: Oh, come on.

COSTELLO: Well does that mean -- does that mean these Tea Party senators who say they're going to vote no on this budget deal, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Marco Rubio, you know, and people -- Democrats and Republicans will all say that these guys are only going to vote no because of their presidential aspirations for 2016. But in light of this new poll, are they foolish for voting no?

AVLON: I won't go that far, but, I mean, the problem we've seen in Republican politics, presidential politics in particular over the past couple years, is that candidates feel that they will be rewarded for being irresponsible. They're not trying to be more responsible to say, look, I'll be a great commander in chief. They're willing to play to the base and pander to the lowest common denominator. That's what Marco Rubio has done in particular in reaction to this budget deal, which is a total abnegation of responsibility, trying to be more like Ted Cruz rather than John McCain.

So they're going to be focused - realize you get political profit in playing to the base, particularly in a caucus state like Iowa. But at the end of the day, whoever is running for president has to show some interest in governing. And that shouldn't be such a radical idea. It is right now.

CAIN: Look, look, look, I know my friend John likes compromise because he has a compromise fetish he's like it like he likes ice cream.

COSTELLO: A compromise fetish.

CAIN: However -- however.

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: I like democracy in government.

COSTELLO: That is so boring, John.

CAIN: If you suggest that Paul Ryan's -- if you suggest Paul Ryan's favorability rating is connected to his budget deal then you must then go on to explain to me how Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum and Rick Perry are second, third and fourth on that scale. What have they done over the past weeks, months to get that kind of rating? It's just a long-term name recognition poll and by the way, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan and Rand Paul no, because it's not connected, it will not hurt them. They are making a 2016 play, one to stand on principle and they hope that will play as well.

But let's be clear, Paul Ryan's position is also political is to set aside shutdowns and focus on Obamacare which is a political win for Republicans.

COSTELLO: I'm still getting over that Rick Perry got 55 percent, I mean seriously? He didn't exactly run the greatest campaign the last time around.

AVLON: Oh it's the oops heard around the world, you got to love that. But look I mean the fact that Chris Christie is not doing so well in that poll does also speak to the complexion of the Iowa caucus voters, more conservative overall, certainly the national Republicans let alone the general election.

But it is significant to see Ryan have that much of a jump. It's more than name ID people in Iowa take their politics seriously and it's not just a snapshot of who they've heard of in the past.

COSTELLO: Ok so my last question is and probably the best question is should we really pay attention to this poll?

CAIN: Do we kill the segment? Do we kill this segment we just spent three and four minutes talking about right now at the end? Because the answer by the way is no.

COSTELLO: I don't think so either but --

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: But one year from now guys I mean, I don't mean to freak everybody out but one year from now we're going to be laser like focusing on Iowa and it will totally, totally appropriate and responsible. The real action this week is whether the Senate can pass a budget deal. That has some presidential implications but that's where the action is, finally possibly a budget.

COSTELLO: Amen, man who has a compromise fetish -- my favorite line of the morning. John Avlon and Will Cain thank you so much.

AVLON: Thanks Carol.

COSTELLO: I want to update the breaking news on the campus of Harvard. I told you a little bit ago that there was a -- somebody called in a bomb threat and police are saying that this is an unconfirmed report. And I'm going to just mention the buildings where this bomb threat went into the Science Center, Thayer, Seiver and Emerson Halls.

The whole university has been evacuated while police check out the scene. Again, this is an unconfirmed report. No explosives have been found, they've just evacuated the campus of Harvard as a precautionary measure. Of course we'll keep you posted.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. We're trying to get you updated on what's happening at Harvard University right now. Police are investigating reports of explosives found on campus. Now these are unconfirmed reports.

No explosives have been found but police are searching four separate buildings on campus and I'm going to read you those buildings right now. One of them is Seiver Hall, that's the brick building it was erected in the late 1800s. It houses classrooms and lecture halls. Also evacuated is Thayer Hall -- that is the student dorm.

The Science Center is absolutely huge. It's a huge, huge building. It houses dozens of laboratories for multiple subjects including astronomy and chemistry and physics, it's a little off the main campus. These other building are on the quad you know the famous Harvard -- Harvard Quad that you hear, Harvard Yard rather that you hear about those -- where those other buildings that I mentioned are located. Emerson Hall is the fourth building they're talking about and that's the home of the school's Philosophy Department.

We understand that final exams have been canceled and as far as I know, only those four buildings have been evacuated. And again, police have done that with an abundance of caution because, of course, they want to protect everyone just in case there is something there. But for now, they are just investigating. Those four buildings have been evacuated. Absolutely no explosives have been found.

We'll keep you posted.

So we wanted to put this Twitter picture up for you. This is -- I'm seeing this for the first time along with you. So bear with me here. This is -- they're talking about the Harvard Police Department. The campus police, this is a patrol car it's sitting outside of the Science Center after those bomb threats forced the evacuation of this building.

Cambridge police are also involved in this investigation and I would assume they are going through that building room by room. And as I said some of these buildings are quite large so it's going to take police some time to go through each and every space so that they feel comfortable that everything is safe for the students and the professors to return.

But this is a time of final exams and as we understand it looking at these tweets that some of those final exams have been canceled at this time.

All right. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning to you. I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining you (SIC).

We start with breaking news at Harvard University: evacuations now under way after an unconfirmed report that explosives may have been placed in four buildings on campus. The buildings have been evacuated while those unconfirmed reports are investigated.

Of course, very preliminary details coming into us right now. But the buildings evacuated are the Science Center, Thayer, Emerson, and Seiver.

Just to give you a sense of where those buildings are on campus, I want to bring in someone that went to Harvard, John King. Kind of help us -- if you can help us give us the lay of the land that would be helpful. Where are these buildings located?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Let me make a quick correction. I didn't go to Harvard, Carol, but I grew up in Boston and I did have a fellowship at the Kennedy School at Harvard last year so I'm familiar with the campus.

There on the main campus, the Kennedy School is separate a bit from those who are familiar with Cambridge. You watch this stretch there. But the top half of your screen is the main campus area there. And I've been in touch with a few people who say that they have Cambridge police, Harvard campus police and other law enforcement authorities there. No information as yet as to what. You mentioned that there's been a report of perhaps explosives on campus -- just a report. Nothing confirmed at this time. But obviously when something like this gets reported, you have security protocols that go into place. You are approaching the holidays on campus here so you would have a busy time for students, many of them finishing up the semester before they head home for the holidays.

You're looking there -- that's right at the Harvard Square area, the pictures right there in Harvard. As we try to get more information, obviously your concern is you have the police response and you try to figure out whether this is a hoax, whether this is something serious and that's what we're trying to figure out right now.

COSTELLO: As far as we know, John, final exams have been canceled at Harvard, at least for today. Describe how large these buildings are because this presents a problem for the police, right. They have to go through that building. They have to check every room, every corner?

KING: Right. We don't know the specifics of what has been reported to them but if they are going building to building, and you're getting a better look here at the campus -- gives you more of a three- dimensional perspective.

You have some larger building. The Science Center is pretty large there. It's an older campus. There's some new buildings built on campus as they come in but they are older, mostly brick buildings.