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Evacuations Under Way At Harvard

Aired December 16, 2013 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, we don't know the specifics of what has been reported to them. But if they're going building to building - and you're getting a better look here at the campus, gives you a more three-dimensional perspective -- you have some larger buildings. The Science Center is pretty larger here. It's an older campus. There's new buildings built on campus as they come in, but they are older, mostly brick buildings.

So we've gone through this with past threats when you get to the college size of a campus. Remember the Virginia Tech shootings for example, if you have to go room-to-room through a building like this, obviously given what has been reported here, again, unconfirmed but some reports of explosives on campus.

They will be very careful. The main goal is to evacuate the buildings, Carol, and evacuate the nearby buildings and get people away from anything approximate to those sites and then once you get, A, more information, and, B, the right equipment and the right teams on board, then you will go forward with a door-to-door, room-to-room search.

But that again, if you gather more information if they have a credible information leading to possible explosives in those buildings, they are not going to rush into them. They are going to wait until they get dogs outside and other explosive teams as well.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: That's true. I would imagine anxiety is very high in light of what happened at the Boston marathon. So they are taking every precaution at Harvard University, those buildings have been evacuated. Final exams have been canceled. What is this picture of? What am I seeing?

KING: You're looking inside. That's one of the study halls. That's a hall, a dorm area. The dorms at Harvard -- I believe this is one of the dormitories. As you mentioned -- this is going to sound funny to people, but if you think of Harry Potter in Hogwarts, you have these large dining areas in some of the main buildings on campuses and away from there are dorm rooms and the like and that's where students gather and have their meals there and study there.

I can't tell exactly which building this is on campus. If you wander through campus, there are several like this on campus, beautiful, older buildings. Students gather in large numbers. I do want to say, Carol, as we watch this go forward, just trying to get some preliminary information from sources on the scenes and what they are indicating right now is they believe that there's not all that -- they believe this is not something to be all that worked up about, but they are trying to get full confirmation of that. That's the indication I am getting from somebody on campus.

COSTELLO: That building that you were talking about, that's where the students have gone -- the students who have been evacuated have gone into that building. They are safe and sound, unconfirmed reports. Police are checking things out. Don't want to freak anyone out just yet. Again, those four buildings evacuated, Harvard, because they have reports of explosives on campus, unconfirmed reports. I'll get you more information as it comes into us. John King, many thanks to you.

KING: You're welcome, Carol.

COSTELLO: I'm sorry? Lou Palumbo, a CNN analyst, formerly with the FBI, am I right, Lou?

LOU PALUMBO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via telephone): Actually, I'm from the police department.

COSTELLO: You get this report that comes in about possible explosives in a building, in four buildings on Harvard's campus. This is a large area. Tell us the protocol.

PALUMBO: There's going to be a boiler plate response. There's going to be emergency services, fire, medical, hazmat, FBI Joint Terrorist Task Force, certainly the Massachusetts State Police. You're going to have a complete response of this as if it is legitimate until they are able to determine that, in fact, it is not.

COSTELLO: Often times these things are not legitimate though, right?

PALUMBO: Yes. That's correct. To be very honest with you, Carol, this could be just a byproduct of somebody attempting to disrupt the testing process at the end of a semester, for example. That is one of the things that is going to be considered. But to go in and treat this as if this is the real deal until they are comfortable that this isn't, that they are playing with lives at this point.

COSTELLO: Yes, unfortunately even if this is fake, I mean, it just causes high anxiety, it scares people for no reason and, you're right, if you want exams to be canceled, this is an effective way to do it.

PALUMBO: And unfortunately I would say it's not the first time that someone has employed this tactic to disrupt the testing process. So everything is being explored at this point. They are attempting to ascertain any of the video or cameras in place to determine the on goings. If in fact this was a phone call or the method and means of which it was communicated to them as well, they are going to address this as if this is the real deal until they are totally comfortable with the fact that this was a hoax, which we will only know over time.

COSTELLO: Exactly. I want to go over the four buildings that have been evacuated that are under investigation right now, the Science Center, Thayer, Emerson, and Sever. Some are laboratories, like, of course, the Science Center has many laboratories and classrooms inside that building. Other buildings are partly classrooms and also places where people live.

I think Sever is a dorm. I'm not really sure about that, but I'll look it up and tell you about that. But four buildings involved, Lou. We don't have any live pictures coming out of Boston right now, but at what point would campus police and Cambridge police call in the bomb squad? Would they do it right away or would they wait?

PALUMBO: No, they would go in right away and address this. The smartest thing is to get the guys on top of their game with this and that's our FBI. They are so well versed in addressing these issues as a result of the frequency of these issues that it would behoove them to spearhead this thing.

The best thing that the Cambridge Police and the campus police should do right now is facilitate an evacuation and engage in what we call containing, establish a hard perimeter, a hard perimeter around the buildings of interest and then at this point if they have the bomb dogs and handlers go in and start to surgically and methodically address each building.

COSTELLO: All right, Lou Palumbo, thank you so much for your insight. John King, thanks to you as well. We're going to take a break. We'll be back with more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right, we do have some breaking news to report. I just want to update you. Four buildings on the campus of Harvard University have now been evacuated. We understand someone phoned in a bomb threat and that bomb threat has supposedly affected four buildings, I'm going to list them for you, the Science Center, Thayer, Emerson, and Sever.

Thayer is a dorm. The rest of those buildings with the exception of the Science Center houses administrative offices and classrooms. The Science Center also has laboratories in it, obviously. Now those four buildings have been evacuated and students have been sent to a hall, a dining room for freshmen.

So students are hanging out there while police check out those buildings. The FBI has now been called and to help with the investigation. Now we don't know explosives have been found. Police are just checking these things out. No one has been hurt and we understand that final exams have been canceled because, as you might expect, this has created quite the upheaval on campus.

What did you say, Pam? We have Tamar on the phone. She's a student at Harvard University. Welcome and thank you for talking with me. Tamar? We lost her. We're going to try to get her back, but as you might expect, students are suffering from high anxiety, especially in light of what happened in Boston at the marathon bombing.

So as you might expect, every single precaution is being taken right now. Is Tamar back on the line? We have Tom Fuentes. Tom Fuentes, hi. He's a CNN analyst, a security analyst. Tell me what is going on right now on the campus of Harvard University. You have these four huge buildings, a bomb threat has been called in by phone. The FBI is on the scene. What are they doing right now?

TOM FUENTES, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): Well, right now, Carol, they are trying to verify if the report is true. I think that, you know, in these types of situations, there's a very good possibility that this whole entire thing is unfounded and somebody just wanted to get out of having to do a final exam today at Harvard. So you have a phone-in report.

Oftentimes these phone-in reports, whether it's explosives on an airplane, school, hospital, they often turn out to be false reports, somebody playing a hoax for one reason or another. And in this particular case, if somebody is trying to avoid taking a final exam today because they pulled an all-nighter and still don't think they are ready, that's one good way to guarantee that there is going to be no final exams conducted today. So I think until an explosive device is found and verified, I think we have to just wait and see.

COSTELLO: Tom, stand by. We have Tamar, the Harvard University student on the line again. Tamar, can you hear me? Tamar?

TAMAR GONGADZE, HARVARD STUDENT (via telephone): Hi. Yes.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much for agreeing to talk with me. I really appreciate it. Tell me what is happening on campus, from your perspective.

GONGADZE: So we received messages from Harvard saying that unconfirmed reports of explosives were reported and one of them is in the Science Center and it's front of the Harvard law school. That's where I am.

COSTELLO: You were at the Science Center at the time that you got this --

GONGADZE: No. I'm in the Harvard law school dorm, which is very close to the Science Center and then the message says that all people in those buildings should evacuate. I'm not in the building, so I'm still here.

COSTELLO: So what's the mood there now?

GONGADZE: Sorry?

COSTELLO: What's the mood there now?

GONGADZE: We have a group of students and they have been posing questions which they should do and some of the people I think are evacuated from law school as well just as a precautionary measure even though there was no record of something in the law +school, too, but a lot of the people are in the libraries now because we had exams. So some people are leaving the libraries and the school buildings, too.

COSTELLO: And you said you're next door to the Science Center. When you look out the window, what do you see?

GONGADZE: There are some police cars passing by and some emergency cars as well. That's what I saw.

COSTELLO: As Tom Fuentes just told us, it could be a big hoax for somebody to get out of their final exams. We don't know, but if it was, I guess, it worked, because final exams have been canceled for students at Harvard. Tamar, thank you so much for joining me on the phone. Tom Fuentes, stand by. I got to take a break. I'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We're following breaking news out of Boston, Massachusetts at the University of -- Harvard University, four buildings have been evacuated on campus because somebody phoned in a bomb threat. The FBI is now involved. Campus police along with Cambridge police are searching those buildings to see if they can come up with any explosive devices. So far, none have been found.

Let's head to Washington because our justice reporter, Evan Perez, has been working the phone. Evan, what have you found out?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER (via telephone): Hi, Carol. That's right, the federal authorities from the FBI, the ATF, even the Secret Service are all at the scene trying to assist with the local police to try to figure out whether, indeed, there's anything to worry about. As Tom Fuentes says that one thing that they thought about is, it's final's week and somebody is calling in a hoax.

But obviously it's a serious matter and they have to go to these buildings. We're probably looking at several hours, a better part of the day before the authorities can clear these buildings and make sure that there is no -- nothing to worry about. So whoever called this in, if indeed it turned out to be a hoax, basically it cost the school the entire day.

Obviously if somebody is found, then it turns into something else, a much bigger investigation by the FBI, the ATF, and all of the other authorities, including the Boston Police.

COSTELLO: Did you say the Secret Service?

PEREZ: Yes. Everyone -- pretty much anybody who is nearby responds to the scene on something like this. The report is four devices in four different locations, I guess, is what the first report that came from Harvard University. And so, you know, it could be a serious thing if indeed there is -- if there's anything explosives found and so that's why any law enforcement that is nearby would respond to the scene. So, that's right, FBI, ATF, even Secret Service responding.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Let's check back in with Tom Fuentes, former FBI. So the Science Center alone, Tom, is humongous. It's a little off the main campus, but it's a huge building, laboratory, classes and the like. It will take some time to go through this building.

FUENTES That's right, Carol. It will take all day at least to do it and the other thing is thing is, as Evan mentioned, the ATF, Secret Service, state or local police agencies going to probably be asked to help because that technical equipment, the trained dogs and other evidence response, you're not going to have enough in the Boston division to do four huge campuses simultaneously.

So they are probably going to have to bring in a lot more assistance to do that. And then the search of each building, every classroom, every closet, every heating duct, you name it. It's going to be a long, tedious, difficult process to search those buildings to try to find a device that you don't know what it looks like and if there is a device or not.

COSTELLO: I just think that would be a scary proposition to be tasked with looking for an explosive device in a large building.

FUENTES: That's correct. And that's why I never had any intention of being a bomb technician. It's dangerous, difficult work. There could be a booby trap. That's why the people who do this are very brave.

COSTELLO: The people who call in bomb threats like this, do they catch them usually?

FUENTES: Oftentimes, yes. We've had a couple occasions in the last two years that I'm aware of where someone phoned in aircraft threats and they were able to track down that it was a boyfriend or girlfriend or spouse situation calling in to hassle somebody else on the airplane. But in a situation like this, because of the hundreds and hundreds of personnel that are going to have to be employed to resolve this and be on scene all day to do this, this is pretty extreme in terms of just the resources alone that it going to take to solve this question.

But, yes, they will start checking phone records. They will start looking at the list of students and teachers, faculty, other employees of the university for each of those buildings. But you also have people that just want to create a hoax so you have individuals that phone in, you know, false alarms, also police reports, pulled fire alarms in buildings and watch the fire department respond for no reason.

So there are many motivations of the type of people that pull these types of pranks, if it is a prank. But it really is difficult for me to believe, especially the number of buildings involved, that if you could have somebody on that campus putting in explosive material that's going to hurt people in four different buildings and not be detected at some point or the device not be found either by a janitor or some other person or actually have it go off and obviously, you'll know then.

But I think that, as Evan mentioned, you have to be very particular. You can't take anything for granted. So even though the investigators, in their mind, might think it's a good chance of it being a hoax, they can't treat it that way. They still have to look at the possibility that this is a real threat and they have to ensure everybody's safety, not just today, but once they clear those buildings and declare them safe, they certainly don't want a device going off later and hurting someone. COSTELLO: Absolutely. So Tom, stand by. Before I go to break I want to update our viewers. Bomb threats have been called in to Harvard University. Four buildings have been evacuated, The Science Center, Thayer, Emerson, Sever. Four buildings have been evacuated. Students have been placed in dining halls across campus. Final exams have been canceled for today. I have to take a break. We'll be back with more in the newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We are continuing to follow breaking news out of Boston at Harvard University. Somebody phoned in a bomb threat concerning four buildings on campus. Those buildings have been evacuated and authorities are going through them and I mean every federal agency you can think of going through these buildings along with campus police and Cambridge police. No explosives have been found. This could well be a hoax. We just don't know yet.

On the phone with me now is Sam Winestock. He is the incoming president of the Harvard Crimson. Welcome, Sam. Sam, are you there?

SAM WINESTOCK, INCOMING PRESIDENT, HARVARD UNIVERISTY (via telephone): Can you hear me?

COSTELLO: I can hear you. Can you hear me, Sam?

WINESTOCK: Yes.

COSTELLO: Tell me first how you found out about this bomb threat.

WINESTOCK: So, there's a messaging system that the university uses that sends out messages and e-mails. So just after 9:00 they sent out an alert that reaches students telling people that there were unconfirmed reports of explosives in these four buildings that you mentioned.

COSTELLO: The Science Center, Thayer, Emerson, and Sever, those buildings have been evacuated?

WINESTOCK: That's right.

COSTELLO: Where were you when you got the message?

WINESTOCK: I was in my room, which is on the other side of campus. The messages didn't tell us to go anywhere in particular. Just that those areas were going to be locked down and that, you know, those buildings were being affected, but didn't necessarily mention where to go.

COSTELLO: So outside of those buildings, life on campus is normal?