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Budget Deal Faces Close Senate Vote; New Details On Snowden's Impact; Amnesty For Snowden Debated; Harvard All Clear After Bomb Hoax; Northern U.S. Braces for More Snow; Storm Disrupts Shoppers and Shippers

Aired December 16, 2013 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, supporters of that compromise budget deal are trying to round up votes. The agreement sailed through the House, but it faces a tougher time in the Senate. We're going to have the latest vote tally live from Capitol Hill.

Right now, the debate over amnesty for Edward Snowden. He said he'd come home if he got protection from prosecution. So what is the head of the NSA saying about the offer? We're going to tell you.

And right now, finals week back on at Harvard after a bomb scare this morning briefly shut down parts of the campus. With nerves still raw from the Boston Marathon bombings, university officials were taking no chances. We'll have a live update from Cambridge just ahead.

Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

They say every vote counts and supporters of that compromise budget deal are counting every vote in the Senate right now. They expect the deal to pass, but the outcome is not necessarily completely guaranteed. The margin could even be razor thin. Among the Republicans who say they'll vote for the bill, Senator Susan Collins, Senator Ron Johnson, Senator John McCain. Senator McCain spoke about it on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I hope it will pass the Senate. I'll do anything -- not anything. But we must not shut down the government again. We can't do that to the people of this country and my state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Dana Bash is tracking the vote tally on Capitol Hill. Give us the latest breakdown.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you just mentioned the Republicans who are going to vote yes. But before we even get to that, tomorrow there is going to be a key, really the key, procedural measure that is going to determine the fate of this budget deal in the Senate.

And let's just sort of explain what is going to be needed so our viewers can understand. First of all, it will need 60 votes to pass or break a filibuster. And we'll remind our viewers what the breakdown of the parties are in the Senate right now, 55 Democrats, 45 Republicans.

Now, let's just assume for argument's sake that all Democrats vote for this. We don't know that that's going to happen. It might not. But let's just assume for now. You would need five Republicans. We have them right now who would vote for this procedural measure, John McCain, Susan Collins of Maine, Jeff Flake of Arizona, he's the junior senator from Arizona, Richard Burr of North Carolina, and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin.

Now, those are all senators who say -- you see them up there, all senators on the Republican side who say that they at least want to give this measure, this deal a chance to get to a final vote. And why does this matter? This matters because once it gets to a final vote, you just need the majority of the Senate, a simple majority, 51. Democrats are expected to have that. So, that's why this key 60-vote threshold tomorrow is going to be the one to watch for.

Now, just going back to the Democrats really fast. There very well could be a few Democrats, maybe some of those who are up for re- election in tough races, red states like Mark Pryor of Arkansas or Kay Hagan of North Carolina. We haven't heard from yet. But it looks as though Democrats and Republicans, frankly behind the scenes, are pretty confident that this is going to go through.

BLITZER: This is a compromise that sailed through the House of Representatives.

BASH: Yes.

BLITZER: But with every compromise, you're going to find people on both sides unhappy with various aspects of the bill. One of the biggest complaints you're hearing from the left and the right?

BASH: Oh, well, starting on the left, certainly some of the biggest complaints if you go to the far left are that this doesn't have unemployment insurance, the extension for long-term unemployment recipients. That's a big problem. But interestingly, some of the Democrats who are most squishy about this are those more conservative and they are concerned that this doesn't do enough to address the debt and the deficit which is some of the complaints that we heard on the Republican side, too.

But what is really different on the Republican side which is making this a very new dynamic is that many of them are unhappy with the fact that this deal includes an increase in -- basically an increase in this military benefits. Excuse me, let me rephrase that. An increase in the cost of living adjustment for military recipients.

So, basically what that means is that people who are in the military would probably lose some of their retirement money as a part of this deal. And that is why you have a lot of Republicans who are either unsure if they're going to vote for this or outright opposed who to tend to vote for compromises, Wolf, like Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and others who are saying, no, they're not going to vote for this because they feel that military retirees get a raw deal.

BLITZER: It's not only military retirees but civilian government employees --

BASH: That's true.

BLITZER: -- would get a little bit less pension as well. Over 20, 30 years though that number could add up so there are complaints coming in on that front.

All right, Dana, we're going to have a lot more on this later. Thanks very much.

We're also learning more about Edward Snowden and the documents he took from the NSA. In an interview with "60 Minutes," the man leading the Snowden task force revealed the number, get this, 1.7 million documents. And he talked about the potential danger in leaking those documents to countries like China and Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK LEDGETT, SNOWDEN TASK FORCE, NSA: It would give them a road map what we know, what we don't know and give them implicitly a way to protect their information from the U.S. Intelligence community's view.

JOHN MILLER, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "60 MINUTES", CBS: For an adversary in the intelligence game, that's a gold mine.

LEDGETT: It is the keys to the kingdom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, one other part of the discussion was potentially granting him amnesty if he returns with all those documents. Rick Ledgett, we just heard from him. He says that should be at least considered. But here is what the NSA chief, Keith Alexander, says.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEN. KEITH ALEXANDER, DIRECTOR, NSA: This is analogous to a hostage taker taking 50 people hostage, shooting 10 and then say, if you give me full amnesty, I'll let the other 40 go. What do you do?

MILLER: It's a dilemma.

ALEXANDER: It is.

MILLER: Do you have a pick?

ALEXANDER: I do. I think people have to be held accountable for their actions because what we don't want is the next person to do the same thing, race off to Hong Kong and to Moscow with another set of data knowing they can strike the same deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: All right. So, what's the reaction this morning, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, so far, there doesn't seem to be a lot of official support for any idea of amnesty or pardon for Edward Snowden. In fact, the National Security Council spokesman put out a statement saying, quote, "There's been no change in U.S. policy on this be issue. Mr. Snowden is charged with a felony and he should return home to face those charges where he will be afforded all due process."

But, Wolf, behind the scenes, what's so interesting here is that even the notion of amnesty or pardon has been raised. Albeit Mr. Leggett said it was his personal opinion. He is a top NSA official.

What this goes to, Wolf, is the growing dread in the U.S. Intelligence community that Edward Snowden indeed has more to disclose and that he has been holding on to a real -- they're calling it the crown jewels beyond the crown jewels. The real treasure trove of information that he might release in the coming weeks and months. They are really at a crossroads. They don't know how to deal with this. They don't know what to do about it. As long as Edward Snowden remains in Moscow, they can't get their hands on him.

So very quietly, it looks like this notion of amnesty being raised, it would be extraordinarily controversial if it happened.

BLITZER: It certainly would be. But if, in fact, he has almost, what, 2 million documents and only released a few thousand so far -- so far, that is a huge issue for the U.S. national security community.

We also learned, as you know, Barbara, that the NSA went to great lengths to ensure that Snowden didn't leave behind a virus when he fled the United States. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEDGETT: All the machines that he had access to, we've removed from our classified network. All the machines in the unclassified network and including the actual cables that connect those machines we removed as well.

MILLER: This must have cost millions and millions of dollars.

LEDGETT: Tens of millions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president promised there would be changes in the way the United States gathers intelligence so we're going to be hearing some of those details fairly soon, right?

STARR: Absolutely. A report from a commission went to the White House on Friday. They are looking at it now. They're not ready to talk about it, they say, but expect to see some of that in the coming days and weeks, perhaps as soon as right after the new year, what the administration will do now to try and reform intelligence collection, reform the NSA, address these issues of the potential abuse of their surveillance powers. This is the next step even while they still try and go after Edward Snowden and prosecute him -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Barbara, thanks very much.

Later this hour, by the way, I'll speak with CNN's National Security Analyst Fran Townsend about these reports, 1.7 million documents stolen by Edward Snowden from the NSA and only supposedly a few thousand released so far.

Meanwhile, a bomb threat at Harvard University this morning appears to have been a hoax. No explosives were found but several campuses were evacuated as a precaution. Final exams scheduled for this morning in those buildings were canceled. The greater Boston area obviously still jittery after last April's terrorist bombing at the Boston marathon. That attack killed three and wounded hundreds.

Let's bring in Alexandra Field. She's on the scene for us. May have been a hoax, Alexandra, but it still was a serious are crime whoever committed this hoax. So, where does this investigation go from here?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And actually, Wolf, the investigation is still happening on this campus right now. We've got state, local and federal officials who are here. Minutes ago they told us that they had officially cleared two of the four buildings that were targeted as part of this threat. There are still investigators in two of the other buildings.

But we know that this investigation will move forward both on campus and online. A source tells CNN's Deb Feyerick that the initial threat was e-mailed this morning to Harvard University police. We don't know what kind of e-mail account was used or whether an I.P. address is available, at this point. But certainly the digital trail is one that investigators will be looking closely at.

And it's worth noting here, Wolf, that this is a serious crime. A threat against a campus. It could come with a whole host of charges depending on the specific circumstances of this case. It could include anything from filing a false police report to reckless endangerment. If the Internet was in fact used, it could even bring with it federal charges here -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Alexandra will stay on top of it for us. Thank you.

So, will this weekend's storm play scrooge for millions of Americans? I'm going to tell you why your packages could be delayed even if you are not buried under the snow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Much of the northern half of the United States is covered by deep snow today. Places like Portland, Maine are shoveling. They're plowing a foot or more of fresh snow and there's more actually on the way.

Chad Myers is over at the CNN Weather Center. Chad, when will the next storm hit? How bad is it going to be?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You know, it will hit tonight. It's not going to be as big of a storm as we had over the weekend. But this is a lake effect storm as well. From Woodford, Vermont, 18 inches, Connecticut over five, even Central {ark had over five inches of snow with the last storm. And this storm is going to bring in cold air down from north. This is a clipper storm that's coming in next.

So, a lot of these numbers that you're seeing now will be the same type of numbers that we'll see throughout the rest of the week. Here comes the snow across the lakes. We're even seeing some snow right here, Wolf. I can show you kind of where it at this point in time, coming across Wisconsin up in here, across the U.P. in Michigan and also even down toward Chicago. Not significant yet but it gets a little bit more organized tonight.

And then, it develops into something a little bit more sinister as it gets close to the ocean. Picks up some ocean moisture and then tries to dump it right along the Berkshires maybe even pour into parts of western New Jersey and even into parts of upstate New York along the Catskills.

Let me show you how this works out. From two to four in Duluth as we spread you across into Green Bay, a little bit farther toward the southeast. This is where it picks up a little bit of energy. And you see some spots in here of 10 to 12 inches in places that have seen quite a bit of travel troubles here across the past couple of days and all the way across northern New York City, parts into New Jersey as well, maybe as far south as Bucks County into Pennsylvania. That's about a six-inch snowfall in the next about 48 to 72 hours. We don't need any more. Now it's cold enough that everything is snow. No more ice. I guess there's some good news there, Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, for all those folks who have snow about to hit them, their dreams might be coming true if they're dreaming of a white Christmas, right?

MYERS: That's right. You've got a lot of white Christmases. Compared to last year, 55 percent of the U.S. is covered with snow at this point in time. Last year it was a third of that. And we still have more snow to go.

BLITZER: All right, let's see if there's a white Christmas for a lot of folks out there, they'll be happy.

MYERS: Yes.

BLITZER: Thanks very much.

This week's storms are definitely going to be on Santa's naughty list. That's because they come at the busiest time of the year for shoppers and shippers. Alison Kosik is over at the New York Stock Exchange.

Alison, clearly a peak time for shoppers and shippers right now. A little bit of snow. Maybe a lot of snow. How much you this going to disrupt things? ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've already seen a bit of, if you want to call it a disruption, you know, with FedEx, with UPS. FedEx actually said it had some delays at its Memphis hub because of this weekend's weather. UPS says it had delays in Dallas.

You know, the reality is, this really comes at the most inopportune time. But you know what, it comes like this every single year. It is the busiest shipping time and it also happens to be the worst time for weather, as well.

Now, today is actually UPS's busiest pickup day of the year. It's also one of FedEx's top three delivery days. FedEx is moving 20 million packages just today. That's double what FedEx normally does. But FedEx tells us that this is their Super Bowl. This is game time. They prepare for this all year.

In fact, listen to this. FedEx actually has 15 meteorologists on staff, plus it puts contingency plans in place when they hear of bad weather. For instance, they reroute flights, they move packages by trucks instead of flying if it's unsafe. So it makes sense.

You know, there's a lot of money at stake here, Wolf. For UPS and FedEx, they made between $11 billion and $14 billion in sales in the last quarter of last year. So there's a lot of money at stake. And also a lot of people hoping to get their gifts in time. That's at stake too, Wolf.

BLITZER: That's very, very important, as we all know.

It hasn't necessarily been a full banner shopping season so far this year. Is there concern the weather's going to make things a little bit worse for retailers right now who depend on this season so much for their annual take?

KOSIK: And you make - you make a really good point because, if you think about it, it's already this kind of high pressure cooker situation for retailers because, sure, Americans are out there spending, but the reality is, they're not spending a lot if you compare what it was like in 2010 and 2011. But the good thing for retailers is, hey, we're a bunch of procrastinators. The top sales days, they are yet to come. In fact, this Saturday is sometimes called Super Saturday because it is the last Saturday before Christmas. So retailers get this final push.

Also, this coming Friday through Monday, these are also among the top sales days in December. And after Black Friday, these are some of the top shopping days of the entire year. So what retailers are really hoping is that people will still get out there, will still brave the elements if they still need a gift by then, even if it is -- because it will be actually too late to shop online.

BLITZER: What about the markets today? A little rough last week. Things are looking a little bit better today, right?

KOSIK: Yes, looks like the bulls are back in a big way, Wolf. The Dow up 118 points. You know, it's inevitable the Fed's going to go ahead and pull back on stimulus. And investors, at least for today, they seem OK with it because the economy is showing stronger signs of improvement with housing, with jobs, with auto sales. So investors seem to be OK with it thinking, hey, looks like the economy is strong enough that it is time to take the training wheels off that the economy can handle it. So you're seeing the bulls come out to play today.

Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Alison, for that report.

So what would you do with more than half a billion dollars? Well, that's up for grabs in tomorrow's Mega Millions lottery draw. The amount jumped after there was no winner last Friday. And, unfortunately, the odds of getting all the numbers right is about one in 259 million. One in 259 million. You're more likely to get killed by an asteroid than to guess all the correct numbers. And if you are the winner and choose the lump sum payment, you take home about $316 million.

Congressman Paul Ryan looks beyond the budget deal he helped negotiate. He's focusing on the next showdown. You're going to hear what Ryan has to say about the little (ph) fight over the nation's debt limit. Gloria Borger standing by to join us live. We'll talk about that and more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The compromise budget deal that sailed through the House of Representatives last week will have a tougher time in the Senate this week. The bill still faces strong opposition from Republicans, but supporters think they will be able to round up enough votes to get it passed and sent to the president for his signature. The latest tally shows they have at least 35 of the 50 votes they need right now. Three Republicans, one Independent are joining with 31 Democrats voting yes. So far, 20 Republicans say they will vote no. Our chief political analyst Gloria Borger is here. She's watching all of this.

A little different dynamic in the Senate now that the -- it sailed through the House overwhelmingly.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BLITZER: But there's a different dynamic in the Senate.

BORGER: There is. There is. It's going to be much closer in the Senate. I think, in the end, it will pass. But I think what you've got are a bunch of senators on the Republican side who are running scared, Wolf. And they're running scared because they're going to be primaried from the right. And you've got senators like Senator Graham, Senator Enzi, for example, even perhaps the leader of the Republicans, Mitch McConnell, although he hasn't declared one way or another, he's being primaried. And they're worried that this deal is not purely conservative enough because it does lift some of those automatic spending limits. And so it's an easier vote for them to vote against it right now. BLITZER: Paul Ryan, the chairman of the House Budget Committee, the Republican vice presidential nominee back in 2012 -

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: He's doing well in this brand new "Des Moines Register" poll -

BORGER: Yes, he is.

BLITZER: As far as potential Republican presidential candidates.

BORGER: It's a little early, wouldn't you say?

BLITZER: Yes.

BORGER: But, of course, we're talking about it. Look, he's got name recognition. He was on the national ticket last time, Wolf. And he's somebody who's kind of walking a fine line here because don't forget, in the government shutdown, he voted in the end to keep the government shut down, which was with the conservatives in the House, with the hell no caucus, he sided with them. And now he's cutting a budget deal. So I think he wants to appeal to both parts of the party at once and kind of try and bridge that divide. So, so far, at least in Iowa, it seems to be working for him.

BLITZER: Now, let's say they get it passed.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: And I think they will get it passed this week. They'll send it to the president. He'll sign it. He'll go on his vacation in Hawaii with his family on schedule. The first time in a while he's been able to do that during the Christmas/New Year's holiday season.

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: But there's another huge fight coming up in February or March -

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: To raise the nation's debt ceiling once again. They've got to do that otherwise the country could be in serious trouble. Here's Paul Ryan yesterday on "Fox News Sunday."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), BUDGET CHAIRMAN: We, as a caucus, along with our Senate counterparts, are going to meet and discuss what it is we want to get out of the debt limit. We don't want nothing out of this debt limit. We're going to decide what it is we can accomplish out of this debt limit fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Now, the dilemma is, of course, that the president says he's not giving them anything in terms of raising the nation's debt limit.

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: This is - this is debt that's already been accumulated, appropriated by the U.S. Congress. The U.S. government owes this money to creditors and to others out there.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: They're not going to make any concessions. He says we want something in order to raise the nation's debt ceiling.

BORGER: Right. And -

BLITZER: So are we going to face another one of these brutal battles here?

BORGER: We might. We might. Look, I think - and again, this is one way Paul Ryan is straddling the divide within the Republican Party, so he cuts this deal because he wanted to avoid a government shutdown. Government shutdown is really unpopular with the American public. We know that having gone through it in October.

But when you poll the American public about raising the debt ceiling, what the public says is, that should be accompanied by serious spending cuts. So they feel that they have public opinion on their side. As far as raising the debt ceiling is concerned, it's a better political argument for them to make.

And so I guarantee you he's not kidding around here. They're either going to ask for some kind of tax reform or they're going to ask for some kind of entitlement reform. The president says he doesn't want to do it. The Democrats say they don't want to do it. And then again, we're at another crisis.

BLITZER: Another crisis in Washington. So let them all rest up during the Christmas/New Year's holiday season.

BORGER: Have a great holiday season, yes.

BLITZER: Got to Hawaii, wherever they want to go on vacation because there's going to be a big fight in January, February, and March.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: I believe it will be significant.

BORGER: I agree with you. I agree.

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much.

More than 1.5 billion documents, we have new details on Edward Snowden's fall and the debate over offering him at least potentially amnesty. That's coming up next.