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NSA Review Panel Recommends Changes; Waiting On Winners Of $636 Million Lottery; Obama, First Lady Host Health Care Moms; "Affluenza" Teen Might End Up In Jail After All

Aired December 18, 2013 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Brooke Baldwin. Moments ago, on this air, you heard us report than this new review suggests the NSA should make changes to its phone surveillance program, and this report going to no doubt add to the debate as far as whether or not NSA leaker Edward Snowden should receive amnesty. Critics call him a traitor, but one supporter in this opinion piece on CNN.com says the criminal, not Edward Snowden but the NSA.

And Jay Kirk Wiebe should know because this is a man who tried to expose the NSA a couple years ago the legal way, and he said he was indicted for it. Wiebe was a model NSA employee, earning several recommendations and retiring after more than 30 years of service. So Kirk Wiebe himself joins me now here. Mr. Weibe, nice to have you on with me. Thank you for joining me.

KIRK WIEBE, NSA WHISTLEBLOWER: Thank you for inviting me to be with you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, obviously, read your piece. You say yes, you say give Ed Snowden amnesty and punish those in the government who committed crime. Tell me why.

WIEBE: Employees of the government, regardless of level, take an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States, and to defend it against enemies both foreign and domestic, and that includes themselves. It's a huge responsibility to run a defense agency that has the kind of charter NSA does. So when one goes out and gathered data, it is always been NSA's effort to avoid collecting and looking at the data of U.S. citizens. So it's a tremendous responsibility.

BALDWIN: But on the flipside, you have a guy here who now claims he has some 1.7 million documents that could really shed even more light, more secrets, leak, whistleblow, whatever the verb here. He's a criminal. He's facing felony espionage charges. You just don't see it that way.

WIEBE: No, I don't, because much as a U.S. soldier does not have to follow an illegal order, if you remember back to the days of Vietnam and Lieutenant Cali and the Melie incident and the ruthless killing of the Vietnamese people, we have a right way to go about collecting data and a wrong way. And every agency employee has been taught for years, this is nothing new, that you do not spy on Americans. And you do not collect in bulk and keep stored for reference large amounts of data belonging to innocent Americans.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about the right way you went about doing this because you know, you were with the NSA for decades. You at one point submit this formal complaint. Your house ultimately is ransacked and from everything I read, you know, you're finally getting everything back in order because of what you did the right way. Then you have Edward Snowden who fled the country, leaked these documents.

Let me play this for you. This is a concern from former NSA employee, Buck Sexton. This is what he told me yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUCK SEXTON, NATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR, THEBLAZE.COM: If he were to be given amnesty in this one context, it would invite, I think, in my mind at least, people to do similar things in the future. Are there going to be a lot of people who want to go to China and then Russia and risk the ire of the United States government? It's not an everyday kind of thing, but it sets something up that in the future could be problematic for other espionage prosecutions. Is anyone who comes up with documents, do they get to say, well, I didn't violate federal law?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And let me be just crystal clear. He was not with the NSA. He used to be with the CIA. I was talking to Buck just yesterday, but my question to you, Kirk, is there a better way Edward Snowden should have, could have handled this, more lawful way?

WIEBE: There is a better way, but it was not available to him.

BALDWIN: Why?

WIEBE: The better way does not exist. Employees of the intelligence community made up of CIA, NSA, DIA, all of them, are excluded from whistleblower protections that other members of government do enjoy by law. So he didn't have any other path to go on. He had already seen what had happened to us. Those of us who tried to do it, quote, "the right way." We went to Congress. We went to the Department of Defense. Nothing changed. Nothing was -- we didn't even get a hearing. All we got was a raid by the FBI six years later, after retiring. And five years after filing the DOD IG report that we filed.

BALDWIN: Let's say, as you would like, final question, if you would like Edward Snowden to come back here, and a lot of people disagree with you, sir. If he came back, was granted amnesty, this is a hated man when you talk to a lot of people. What would he even do here?

WIEBE: Well, I don't think he's as hated as you think he is. I saw a recent poll where 55 percent of Americans believe he's a whistleblower and only about 35 percent of Americans believe he's a traitor. And part of it is people can't see through the haze of the media and NSA is a bit abstract and so forth, so people are wrestling with what's truth in all of this. But here's the truth I do know. BALDWIN: OK.

WIEBE: We know through what - I'm sorry, through what Snowden has disclosed that the National Security Agency has illegally and in bulk collected millions of records of innocent people. Now, that is not pursuing terrorism. That's not pursuing criminals. There are ways to do that. What I'm saying is, there's a way to do this without violating the privacy of innocent people.

And we had that way worked out. We weren't chosen by the director of NSA, Michael Hayden. He didn't even come down to see what our suggestions were. His deputy director did, named Bill Black, and he said, my gosh, you guys have made major breakthroughs. Why are you being so modest? So the whole story has not been told about this whole business.

BALDWIN: We're working on getting the whole story out. I know you know yourself being a whistleblower from the NSA. Kirk Wiebe, thank you so much for your perspective, and once again, you know, hearing the panel admitting there is a trust gap among Americans. You think? Kirk Wiebe, thank you very much.

WIEBE: My pleasure, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up, the student accused of a bomb hoax at Harvard reveals why he did it and the reason is mind-boggling.

Plus, the teenager who drove drunk and killed four people, but avoided jail time because he's rich and spoiled, may not be getting off so easily after all. We will tell you what's happening that could change that entire case.

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BALDWIN: We don't know who they are, but we do know that they're going to be having a very merry Christmas here because at least two people chose the magic six numbers to claim last night's $636 million Mega Millions jackpot. The two tickets were sold in San Jose, California and in Atlanta, Georgia. The lucky winners will share the second largest prize in U.S. history.

CNN's Martin Savidge has been on lottery watch, we'll call it, all day long and he's live in Atlanta. Anyone, no one coming forward yet?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, so far, Brooke, I'm afraid no signs of anybody coming forward and letting us know who may be the winners. But as you point out, the holidays just got a whole lot happier for some folks. We don't know exactly who or how many, but right now lottery officials say there were two winning tickets sold in that Mega Millions drawing.

What's interesting is that those tickets were sold at opposite ends of the country. One was sold in a gift shop in San Jose. The other just a few miles away from here in Atlanta at a place called the "Gateway Newsstand." Just because we know where, so far, we don't know who the lucky people are. We may not know that actually for some time, because past lottery winners have shown people can take weeks, even months to come forward.

Two winning tickets don't mean two winners. Of course, there were a lot of people, families and offices that were pooling their money. So if you have people who didn't show up at work today, it could be that you're now getting an early indicator of a new millionaire. Also, as you know, we have been working on this story all night, and California officials told us that retailers whose sell the tickets get a $1 million bonus.

We extrapolated that to Georgia, but it turns out that Georgia has a different rule. Store owners in Georgia receive commission from ticket sales. We, of course, apologize to the owners of the newsstand and told them that we were misinformed, and as we try to do at CNN, we're open and transparent with our corrections. The husband and wife owners were very gracious and said what they really wanted to know is who among their customers is now very, very rich -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: We will wait and see. Martin Savidge, thank you very much.

It is happening as I speak at the White House. It's a meeting in the oval office. You have the president, the first lady, and a lot of moms from all across the country. The White House is saying, moms make a lot of those household financial decisions so bring them on board for Obamacare. Enrol the moms in the effort to expand the Obamacare rolls.

Jake Tapper, host of "THE LEAD," our chief Washington correspondent, and you know, listen, when you have the first lady there, I imagined they're hoping she can help the turnout for the moms for Obamacare, right?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, they believe, A, and she is very popular among the American people, and B, this is a more subjective call. They think she's an effective messenger. The truth of the matter is that they need to get moms on board. They need to get women on board in general. If you look at recent polling, let me take a look at this, the Kaiser Family Foundation poll found that among women, Obamacare or the affordable care act, had an unfavorable view of it, 48 percent to 32 percent favourable.

And in CNN/ORC, our own polling in October, 51 percent of women disapprove of President Obama, 46 percent approve. So they have their work cut out for them in women, even though in general, women have been very supportive of President Obama -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, we'll be talking to one of those moms straight out of the oval office next hour. You, Jake Tapper, my fellow anchorman friend, will be joining me again next hour with a special interview. We'll talk next hour about that one. Jake, thank you very much.

TAPPER: I love --

BALDWIN: What did he love?

TAPPER: I love lamps. BALDWIN: We'll find out. Now on a much more serious note, the teen who drove drunk and killed four people but avoided jail time because he's rich and spoiled may not be getting off so easily after all. We'll explain next.

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BALDWIN: We now have an update on that case that absolutely outraged the nation. Remember Ethan Couch? He was the "affluezna" kid. There's now a chance he could get his comeuppance after all. The 16- year-old got drunk then got behind the wheel of his pickup truck and ultimately hit and killed four people. Couch pleaded guilty, but then his attorneys played this "affluenza" card during the sentencing, claiming this young man has no sense of responsibility because he's a spoiled rich kid.

Prosecutors wanted to put Couch away for 20 years. The judge gave him ten-year probation plus rehab. But, here's the but, the district attorney in this Texas county may have found a way to put Couch behind bars. Two teenagers riding in Couch's pickup truck were seriously hurt. Here is one of them. This is Sergio Molina. He's paralyzed. His only form of communication is blinking.

Couch admitted guilt on two cases of intoxication assault, and here is what the D.A. is saying now. Quote, "There has been no verdict formally entered in the two intoxication assault cases. Every case deserves a verdict." The D.A.'s office is asking the court to incarcerate the teen on the two intoxication assault cases.

So what does this mean, CNN legal analysts, Danny Cevallos and Sunny Hostin are here. Sunny, first to you, what are the odds that these sentences -- that this could happen? We could see charges on the two cases?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: A verdict on those two, I think there is a good chance. Listen, this is a Hail Mary pass for this judge. Everyone is outraged about it. People are calling for either her resignation or for her to be kicked off the bench. There are people running for office who are saying they're going to look into it. She now has the opportunity to correct what everyone knows is a wrong, which is not putting this young man in prison.

I mean, when you kill four people and critically injured two others, the cure for "affluezna" is prison time. They have to send a message to the community that this kind of behavior, there's consequences. I suspect this was the D.A.'s Office round way of trying to get justice here. I said it all along. A creative prosecutor, a prosecutor who can challenge --

BALDWIN: Risky.

HOSTIN: -- can challenge this kind of sentence. I still think, and Danny is going to disagree, they could have appealed the sentence, because this is an illegal sentence clearly because of its leniency and on top of it, because she failed to convict him or sentence him on the other two charges. BALDWIN: Disagree. Why are you disagreeing?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: On every level. On everything she said. First of all, public pressure shouldn't apply to judges. That's the way the system is designed. It's not a democratic process. That's why our federal judges are appointed for life. Part two is that sunny, even if this case comes back to this judge, it going to be on a lesser charge. The judge has already adjudicated on intoxication manslaughter. Now it's back on assault.

How silly would that look if she gave him some sort of incarceration or placement in a juvenile facility when she gave probation on the earlier charges that were much more extreme. That would make no sense. Part three is this case has already been adjudicated. I don't know what happened add the colloquy or in court, but all of these charges, these cases should have been consolidated as part of whatever plea agreement they entered into so he would admit guilt.

I'm certain he believed he was admitting to all of the crimes. So the questin is, was the prosecutor they playing peekaboo. Was this a clerical error? I don't know, but in fairness, when someone believes they're admitting to guilt on certain cases, if they admit they're admitting on all those cases then where was the miscommunication breakdown? And they shouldn't be able to proceed on this technicality.

BALDWIN: In 30 seconds, I know you disagree. I see it all over your face.

HOSTIN: Completely.

BALDWIN: We mentioned the petition signatures. Everyone wants this judge yanked.

HOSTIN: She should be yanked.

BALDWIN: Should be yanked isn't the same as whether she going to or won't.

HOSTIN: I think it's likely. I think the Judicial Commission can look at this and find she acted so egregiously, she should lose her position. She's no longer running. She's not going to get re-elected and she should get kicked off the bench to send the message it's OK to kill four people, to maim two others, because you're a rich kid. Come on.

CEVALLOS: If it's a legal sentence, it can't be appealed. They should write to their legislator.

BALDIWN: We have to go. Back after this. I hear you both.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Have you ever dreamed of being the next Lebron James? Check out this CNN "Technovations."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New wearable technology could help basketball players make their dreams a reality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, 60 seconds. Ready, go.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: A shooting sleeve developed by Vibrado Technologies provides instant feedback to build muscle memory and consistency between shots.

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UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Two former cell phone company employees partnered with the Carnegie Melon University professor to use smartphone sensors to track the motion of your arm.

CYNTHIA KUO, VIBRADO TECHNOLOGIES: There are three sensor nodes on the sleeve, one on the back of my hand, one on the forearm and one on the bicep.

JACOBSON: Each of those sensors has gyroscopes and accelerometers, just sense the position and motion in space. From that, we can then model how the arm is moving.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: A buzzing noise indicates poor form and a victory tone signals a good shot. A mobile app provides in depth feedback on how to improve your shooting skills.

JACOBSON: The number one thing to work on is getting your arm higher on the shot.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Coaches and high school players in California are testing the device.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would definitely say my shots improved. Keeping my elbow in and snapping my wrist.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: The technology could be available to the public late next year for a few hundred dollars.

(END VIDEOTAPE)