Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Target Customers' Pin Numbers Stolen; Analysts: Al Qaeda Getting Stronger; Hate Crime Charges in "Knockout" Attack; Colorado Pot Sales to Begin on January 1; Priest Abuse Cover-Up Conviction Reversed; How Do Icebreakers Get Stuck; Can Congress Change Its Image?; Phil Robertson Returns to Duck Dynasty Flock; Big Bertha Blocked in Seattle
Aired December 28, 2013 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROSA FLORES, CNN ANCHOR: Here in the CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Rosa Flores.
Millions of shoppers at Target whose debit card information was compromised are getting more bad news about that security breach. Their pin numbers were also stolen. The retail giant revealed the news Friday but insist that the data is encrypted and still safe.
CNN's Alexandra Field is live outside Target in New York. And Alexandra, should shoppers get new debit cards, is that the solution, you think?
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rosa, there is really no good reason not to. At least that's the advice from security experts. Meanwhile, Target is trying to tell shoppers that their information is still safe and secure, despite the fact that those encrypted pin numbers were stolen as part of this massive data breach that we've been talking about. Here's the statement from Target spokesperson, quote, "the pin information was fully encrypted at the key pad, remained encrypted within our system and remained encrypted when it was removed from our system. So certainly that should sound somewhat comforting to shoppers a few layers of security there but security experts are telling us with hackers who are this sophisticated, there are still reasons for shoppers to be concerned.
FLORES: I know that I never use my debit card. I just use my credit card. What are experts suggesting for people who are concerned if perhaps, you know, their debit card information being compromised?
FIELD: Well, the first thing that people need to do, because we are talking about something 40 million shoppers, is to replace those cards that could have been compromised and to immediately change the pin numbers. And Rosa, this is also a really good time to learn about the cards in your wallet. You know, if you've got a debit card, if you've got a debit card, it's important for consumers to understand the deference and liability between those two cards because you are offered some more protection with credit cards. People are seeing that now knowing that their debit cards could be compromised.
FLORES: All right, Alexandra Field, thank you so much.
No more delays. UPS says, its customers can breathe a sigh of relief. The company's massive holiday backlog is now cleared. The shipping service blamed delays on bad weather and an exceptionally high volume of packages. The company would not give a number of how many deliveries were backlogged. UPS suffered major backlash from angry customers whose presence did not arrive in time for Christmas.
Over a million Americans who have been out of work for nearly a year lost their federal benefits today. Emergency unemployment checks stopped going out because Congress did not include any extension in last week's budget deal.
CNN's Tom Foreman explains what this could mean for the economy.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Who will be most affected by this program? The long-term unemployed? This is people who have already used up all their regular unemployment benefits for 26 weeks and now are getting these additional emergency benefits that Congress has approved and re- approved several times over the past few years. It's those additional benefits that are being cut off. How much is it? About $300 per week to each of the recipients and there are about 1.3 million people who will be immediately affected by this cut-off.
They are spread around the country but some areas are being hit more than others. In the northeast, you might look at New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, down here. Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Texas, California. Out here. Those are the places hit the hardest. Because they have the most people who have been unemployed for the longest period of time. And all of this brings up a lot of uncertainties. For those who support the idea of cutting these emergency benefits, they believe it will not only save the government 25, $26 billion in the coming year, but also unemployed people may accept previously rejecte4d jobs.
Their theory is that this pushes people out there to look a little bit harder for work. Those who are against this gut say nonsense. Long- term unemployed people are less likely to find work. That's why they are having such a hard time. You are just punishing them. You're not going to encourage them any more at all. And of course, the biggest uncertainty, what is the impact of all of this on economy? We don't really know right now if you take all that spending out, but we will have to see.
FLORES: Tom Foreman, thank you. The Obama administration supports legislation to extend the program by three months. That bill will be voted on as soon as soon as lawmakers return from recess.
A mission to rescue a group of scientist and tourists is on hold for now. It is in the coldest place on earth. Antarctica. The research ship is locked inside thick ice and hasn't budged an inch since Monday. Seventy four people are on board. They are making the most out of this. Keeping their spirits up. And so far, they have plenty of supplies. The expedition leader has been posting updates on-line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS TURNEY, EXPEDITION LEADER: It is 28 December 2013. And as you can see the weather is -- we have got some snow falling, but it's not too windy. Unfortunately the weather forecast says conditions will continue for the next few days. It is our fourth day now trapped in the Schakowsky. And we feel it was important to let family and friends know that everyone is OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: And we should add that a Chinese ice breaker tried to reach the stuck ship but the ice is just too thick to smash through. The rescue ship is a few miles away and will try to reach the research vessel again when conditions improve.
The number of states reporting widespread flu activity is growing. This week, ten states, Alabama, Alaska, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Texas and Wyoming are reporting widespread seasonal flu activity. Last week, it was only four states. The flu season usually begins in the winter. Months and in peaks in January and February. Experts say so far the cases appear to be those of the typical flu season.
And still ahead, your phone and internet records are still fair game for the National Security Agency. A federal judge says the NSA spying program that includes those records is constitutional. Just last week another federal judge ruled the program was likely unconstitutional. The program is part of a -- the Patriot Act and the judge calls it a critical weapon in the fight against terrorism. Specifically against al-Qaeda. Recently we've been hearing more about the threat of al- Qaeda again.
CNN's Barbara Starr explains why we may be hearing a lot more about that terror group in the year ahead. And that's next.
And just ahead, it is called the knock-out game but it has life- threatening consequences. Now one suspect is being charged with the federal hate crime. That and much more coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FLORES: Military analysts tell CNN al-Qaeda will start the New Year stronger than the year before and the terror group is actively planning more attacks. In the Middle East, in Europe, and even in the United States. Our Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CNN has learned recent intercepts of messages from senior al Qaeda operatives in Yemen are renewing concern the group is planning new attacks. The intercepts don't indicate specific targets but are described by one source as quote active plotting.
SETH JONES, RAND CORPORATION: There are multiple indications that al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is plotting attacks both within Yemen against the U.S. and other western structures, as well as overseas.
STARR: The group in Yemen already well known and for the failed underwear bomber attempt to bring down an airplane Christmas Day, 2009.
Four years later, the U.S. intelligence community believes it poses the greatest threat of an attack on the U.S.
JONES: They're still capable of conducting attacks outside of Yemen including plotting attacks against the United States in multiple locations, including trying to conduct attacks against the U.S. homeland especially by taking down the aircraft.
STARR: Analysts say the group rebounded in 2013 from battlefield losses. U.S. drone strikes have had mixed results. A drone attack this month failed to kill an al Qaeda planner believed to be behind a plot to attack the U.S. Embassy. Yemen says more than a dozen members of a wedding party were killed in that attack.
Yemen's al Qaeda leader Nasser al-Wuhayshi, also advising the al Qaeda fighters across the region. And those al Qaeda affiliates from Yemen to Syria, Iraq and Libya are growing stronger. The threat they pose worries key members of Congress.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Are we safer now than we were a year ago, two years ago?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I don't think so.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I absolutely agree that we're not safer today.
STARR: In Iraq, police are trying to crack down, but al Qaeda openly operates training camps near the Syrian border and from there, al- Qaeda has moved into Syria with weapons and tactics learned during the U.S. war in Iraq.
Inside Syria, a key al Qaeda affiliate also stronger than a year ago. About 100 Americans along with potentially hundreds from Europe are fighting alongside thousands of militants.
JONES: If they were able to return to Europe and to get access to the United States, or return directly to the United States, they were not put on watch lists. That would pose a very serious threat. They're well trained, they're radicalized and they have the ability and intent to strike the U.S. homeland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Analyst say, the rallies of the new al-Qaeda affiliates is part of the price paid for years of attacks against the old core al- Qaeda. Many of those leaders are long gone including Osama bin Laden and now, the new affiliates have much more autonomy, much more freedom to operate as they see fit. Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
FLORES: Elsewhere, overseas today, student at university in Egypt are blamed for setting on fire their school. It happened in Cairo where widespread protests have erupted since the government declared the political movement Muslim brotherhood a terrorist organization. The students are reportedly supporters of the Muslim brotherhood and allegedly stormed their university with Molotov cocktails. At least one student was killed fighting with the Egyptian police, the Egyptian government says, anyone who publicly backs Muslim brotherhood will go to jail.
Secretary of State John Kerry is headed to the Middle East next week. He is pushing for a potential peace core (ph) between Israel and the Palestinians. This will be Kerry's ninth trip to the region. Peace talks stalled in November with both sides digging in their heels. Key point of contention include the continued Israeli troop presence in the Palestinian territories and construction of Jewish settlements in the west bank.
And in just a few days, people in Colorado will be legally allowed to smoke, buy and grow marijuana while others in neighboring states, if they do that same thing, could be arrested, fined and put in jail. And what about those in Colorado already in prison for pot crimes? Do they get out now? We'll take a look at all of those questions and answers just ahead. And later, a massive underground drill has hit something. Something. And it can't get through. So we're talking about that mystery. So far, no one knows what's down there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJOR LESLIE LATIMORE LORFILS, AFGHANISTAN: Hi, my name is Major Leslie Latimore Lorfils, with the Screaming Eagles 101st Airborne Division located at Bagram, Afghanistan. I would like to wish my husband Major Helbert Lorfils and my eight children, Avery, Latisha, Antoinette, Darius, Jessica, Krista, Elijah, and Leyla a very Merry Christmas and a wonderful Happy New Year. And I look forward to seeing you very soon. I love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FLORES: There are a lot of legal stories making headlines this week at the top of the list, the so-called knockout game. Federal prosecutors are charging a Texas man with a hate crime for his alleged attack on an elderly African-American man. Police say, they have video evidence that Conrad Barrett targeted his victim because he was black. And say Barrett hoped to get famous with the violent attack.
Let's talk about it with criminal defense Attorney Holly Hughes and clinical psychologist Dr. Jeff Gardere. Holly, let me start with you. So many questions about this particular case.
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
FLORES: Where does the line get crossed for this to be a hate crime?
HUGHES: When you target a victim solely because of their race or religion, sometimes gender, it depends on your state, what qualifications they have for what we call a protective class. However in this particular instance, in Texas, their hate crime statute says that if you pick somebody solely because of their race, and it's clear that that's what Conrad Barrett did to this elderly gentleman, because when we look at evidence he uses the "n" word in his daily routine. He's posted online using that. There is a lot of evidence to back up. He didn't just happen to hit a man who was African-American. He picked this man because he was African-American. To hit.
FLORES: Now, Jeff, let me bring you in. Because Barrett's attorney says his client has bipolar disorder and takes medication. Could his mental health have triggered this?
JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I guess you can always make the arguments that perhaps he was in a manic face and wasn't in his right mind. But typically we see people who are manic depressive, usually are on their medications. And even when they go to a manic or a very depressed state. They don't act out. They are not known for being violent. If nothing else, they are known for having a lot of energy and very rarely do we see some sort of a psychosis coming from this. So, certainly this person knew, I believe he knew what he was doing.
FLORES: Which begs the question, if the attorney is talking about this, publicly, do you think he's going to use the mental illness defense here?
HUGHES: Absolutely. And you know, why? Number one, like you mentioned, he's already publicly put it out there, so he is kind of tainting the jury pool. Right? Letting people know already, it is not his fault, it's not his client's fault. But it is not going to be successful. When you're talking about a mental illness, you can't -- you have to not be able to tell the difference between right and wrong. You have to not be able to appreciate the nature and the consequences of your actions.
Like we talked about earlier, all of that prior evidence, all of that hate and that vitriolic speech and those actions toward African- Americans, the prosecutors is going to use them to back up the case, to back it up and say, no, no, no, no, this wasn't a one-time event, guys. This was a hate crime and it is based on the attitude that this particular defendant has shown for a long period of time. Not just that day.
FLORES: And so, let's talk about the attitude and those actions that you're talking about because Jeff, a lot of this sound like it's about notoriety. It's about getting attention. Hunger for attention. This gentleman videotaped himself and then posted this video. Is it about getting attention, you think?
GARDERE: Well, yes, I think he is getting attention and the problem is that these things are allowed to post for a while before they are taken down and Holly is absolutely correct. This is not an isolated incident and this is proof in the pudding that this guy knew the difference between right and wrong. Because it wasn't that. He did this because he was crazy. Now he planned it and then he went and posted it if, so he knew what he was doing. His actions were premeditated.
FLORES: And let's zero in on that premeditation. Could we see some of these charges upgraded in the future? I know that these cases are violent. But there's some premeditation here. HUGHES: Absolutely. And premeditation is usually required for any kind of crime but what we say in the law is pre-meditation can be formed in an instant and instantly regretted. But I think what we're talking about here is, you're asking me, is there going to be an enhancement attention thing, is it going to be a longer period of time on the back end? Not because of the rantiveness of the attack but the hate crime statute will allow for enhanced sentencing. It will allow the judge to say, we don't agree with this kind of behavior in our state and therefore, I can jack up your sentence, based on the fact that it is a hate crime. Not on the randomness of it but on the motivation for why this defendant attacked this particular victim.
Well, it is a fascinating conversation. Holly, Jeff, stay with me. We got more to talk about. In just a few days. People in Colorado, can buy, sell, and smoke marijuana. It sounds like a pot lover's fantasy, folks. But there are some restrictions and some concerns as well. We will talk it out with Holly and Jeff after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FLORES: Welcome back. We are looking at some of the top legal issues making headlines this week. With criminal defense Attorney Holly Hughes and clinical physiologist Dr. Jeff Gardere and we will start with marijuana. Colorado is the first state to legalize recreational pot in just a few days people in Colorado will be legally allowed to smoke, buy and grow pot.
Holly, let me start with you. Because I'm thinking, OK. So Colorado is a state in the United States. Anyone visiting Colorado, are these laws going to apply and how once you cross state lines? To me, there are just so many complications.
HUGHES: Right. You can consume it while you are in Colorado. You can buy it while you are in Colorado. You may not take it across state lines. Because obviously, like you are saying, Colorado is the only state in that locale that has legalized it. So, there are some restrictions here. You have to be 21. You can't smoke it out in public or where you can be seen in public. So, you can't stand on a hotel balcony and light a reefer. You know, you can get arrested for that. So, there are some restrictions still in place. But yes visitors, you know, if you're looking to took up and enjoy yourself, head on down to the Rocky Mountain State. Is that what they call it? Right? Colorado, Rocky Mountain high.
FLORES: A whole other high there.
HUGHES: Yes, gives the song new meaning, doesn't it?
FLORES: Interesting. Now, Jeff, help us understand this. So, will more people be inclined to try marijuana simply because it is legal?
GARDERE: Well, I think that certainly if there is a curiosity and we see it with very young people for example, that it will be much easier to get. But let's let the cat out of the bag here. OK? And Holly will tell you this herself. But there are professional people, I'm not saying Holly is one of them but there are professional people for example.
HUGHES: Thank you, Jeff.
FLORES: She is mighty happy today by the way.
GARDERE: Absolutely. I don't know -- but we won't go there today. But you know, there are professional people out there who have one job doing something and then another job selling marijuana on the side. Those people never get busted. It is something that's so low level. And so I think what you'll going to see is that, I don't know if there is going to be a tremendous amount of increase in the use especially for people who are older. Because it is already easy for them to get, even though it is illegal in many, many states.
FLORES: Now, I'm intrigued by the employment law and work.
HUGHES: Right.
FLORES: Will people be able to be high?
HUGHES: Absolutely not. And in fact, you can even be fired if you're coming to work high. And employer can still fire you in the state of Colorado because once again, you are talking about a restricted area. So, when you go to your employers, there are certain rules we all have to follow, right? I mean, we can't come in here brandishing a gun, just because we're at work. We can't come in here and toke up, Dr. Jeff, because we're at work. You know? I'm a criminal defense attorney, of course I know this -- OK? And I used to prosecute. But the other thing that it's going to do for the criminal justice system in Colorado is going free up a lot. Because now you won't see a lot of the state resources and the prosecutors happen to deal with what a really very low-level crimes because it is no longer a crime.
FLORES: What about people who are in jail for crimes --
HUGHES: In the law, what we call grandfather, and you're not going to get grandfathered in. There is no going back in time. There's no ex post facto. So if you are already in for it, you are in for it. Because at the time that you committed the offense, it was illegal. So nobody is going home if they are already serving attentions.
FLORES: And now Jeff, one of the other things that I'm really curios about is the impact on kids. Their perception about marijuana. The kids that are growing up now, and for them, it is legal.
GARDERE: Yes, OK. So, this is where my real concern is. Because we do know that now marijuana is almost matching alcohol as one of the most abused substances out there for very young people. So, now the message is that yes it is legal. And I'm not going to get into the politics of it. I'm simply playing shrink here. OK? But now kids have a perception that OK, because it is legal, now I can go ahead and do this as much as I'm doing alcohol. So, I think we're going to see increased use in young people and there's not going to be the stigma for them to use it. Our only hope is that they don't use it to the point of where they now use it as a gateway to other much more serious drugs. FLORES: Now, let's move on to our next topic. An appeals court in Pennsylvania has overturned the conventions of Catholic Monsignor William Lynn. He was in prison for covering up sexual abuse committed by a priest he supervised. Now, this was a landmark case with a lot at stake. Holly, let me start with you. The, I guess, this overturn -- they're overturning of this case--
HUGHES: Right.
FLORES: -- the implication of this.
HUGHES: Right. What the court held when they wrote this opinion -- this was a three-judge panel that sat and heard this case, went through everything, wrote the opinion, and what they said was the monsignor was convicted under a law at the time that he was not part of, like we talked about, that protective class.
In the law, you have to be part of it. The way that the child endangerment and child welfare law was constructed in Pennsylvania at the time, which you had to be a parent or a caregiver, somebody who was personally responsible for the care.
He was an employer. He was a supervisor of the priest who admitted, and let's remember that Avery was the priest who admitted to some of the sex acts, pled guilty to them, and then they went after his boss, Monsignor Lynn. And the court said, at the time, he wasn't included in that law. So, no, even though what he did was morally reprehensible, it was not illegal under the law.
FLORES: And, Jack, what does the ruling say to the victims in this case?
GARDERE: Well, I think what we've seen here is that, Holly, again is correct that this is a situation where this was not included in the law. I think the law, of course, will be reviewed and will be much more inclusive.
I think in some ways, it is a slap in the face to those young people, or people now who are much older, who were abused when they were younger. So that is a major issue. But I think the important issue is that this thing did go to trial. They did grandfather it in. They did put Monsignor Lynn behind bars.
It's been overturned. But all of the wheels have been set that they are going after all of these individuals who try to shelter these people in positions of power, these priests and so on. They are not going to let them do that and get away with it again. So what these young people need to understand is that you're not going to get away with these actions.
You've got -- got off on this one, Monsignor Lynn, but -- I believe that no other person is going to get away with this again under this law. It's going to be tightened up.
FLORES: Jeff, Holly, thank you so much for the fascinating conversation. We appreciate the time. GARDERE: Thank you.
HUGHES: Thanks.
FLORES: Now back to one of our top stories this hour. Antarctica, where a Russian ship with 74 people on board, is stuck in the ice. It is understandable how most ships would get stuck. But ice breakers? How does that happen?
CNN's Carl Azuz has the answer.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARL AZUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You'd think that because this is a glacial environment sea ice would move at a glacial pace. Not the case.
Wraps of ice move quickly rushed over the sea by wind. They can expand and grow thicker, rise and fall with the waves beneath them, and blizzard conditions common to Antarctica even in summer, don't help.
You might remember this scene from Minnesota where wind blew ice ashore from Mille Lacs Lake, climbing and cracking into doors and windows. Think of this same principle in a massive frigid sea and you can see how a Russian research vessel en route to the Antarctic got trapped, how Ernest Shackleton in the "Endurance" were surrounded and how that ship was eventually crushed.
Even animals used to these conditions like the trapped whales dramatized in last year's movie "Big Miracle" are vulnerable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see that?
AZUZ: So what does it take to get through the ice and rescue whales, cruise ships or anything else that gets stranded?
Wait. Sea ice as thick as 10 feet can be broken and the sloping holes of some icebreakers are designed to actually wedge up on top of the ice so the heavy ship can crush down on it. The bows are also designed to then move the cracked ice to the side, plowing a path that other ships can follow, a crusty road to open water out of a frozen maze.
Carl Azuz, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLORES: Most of you believe the current Congress is the worst in your lifetime. And not only does it seem like Democrats and Republicans are at each other's throats, the Republican leadership has been sounding frustrated by its own members.
So can Congress gets its act together in 2014? More about that next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAJ. THOMAS ZAWISZA, STUTTGART, GERMANY: Hi, I'm Major Thomas Zawisza here at U.S. Africa Command headquarters in Stuttgart, Germany. I'd like to say happy holidays and merry Christmas and a happy new year to Dad and Mary, and all my family answers friend in Toledo, Ohio.
Love you, guys, and miss you very much. Have a blessed new year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FLORES: Congress may be looking to boost its image in 2014 and it has plenty of work to do. Lawmakers have earned a reputation for constant bickering and not getting much done. Look at this recent CNN/ORC poll. Nearly 70 percent of those surveyed say this Congress is the worst Congress they've ever seen. Just 28 percent say no, this Congress is not the worst.
Right before the winter break, Republican Congressman Paul Ryan spearheaded a budget deal with Democrat Senator Patty Murray. Some people in Washington rejoiced that there was a budget deal.
Let's bring in Princeton University historian Julian Zelizer in New York.
And, Professor, it's sad that simply passing a budget represents a real progress in Congress.
PROF. JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: I think that's absolutely true. That's how bad the situation has become. That what should be routine, what should be normal has now become a subject is fierce political debate and gridlock. But the hope is that by passing this budget they might have taken the issue off the agenda for at least a few months. So the Congress can deal with other issues.
FLORES: That was my next question. Is there going to be a big impact, you think, by this budget, long-term? Or is this just a short term deal?
ZELIZER: Well, the budget deal itself is not so significant. It doesn't really solve many of the major problems that the parties have been fighting about. And Paul Ryan, who was the engineer on the Republican side of this deal, has already suggested he is ready for another fight with the debt ceiling in the months to come. So it's unclear what kind of long-term impact this will have. I think people in Washington are just hoping for a few months of breathing room.
FLORES: And let's talk about Ryan. Do you think having a budget deal cut by someone with Ryan's conservative credentials will get the right on board with other issues in the future?
ZELIZER: Maybe. Paul Ryan does have very solid credentials among conservative Republicans on this issue, not on social and cultural issues but on the budget. So there is a possibility that he is able to rally the Republicans in the House to support this budget deal and to prevent another fight from breaking out in the year to come. But as we've seen in the past year, some of these Republicans are very hard to control and they don't really care who the established figure is. They are fighting a fight and will take all kinds of measures if necessary.
FLORES: What about Speaker Boehner's comments about the Tea Party? Could we see the GOP split with the Tea Party wing?
ZELIZER: Well, I think the GOP is already split over the past year, and I think at the end of the year, we saw a speaker of the House who is incredibly frustrated with his own caucus and believes that Tea Party Republicans are really dragging down the party. So the fact he said that in public and made those statements suggest that in the coming few months, he might be willing to take on these members of the caucus, even possibly by allying with Democrats.
FLORES: What about Senate Democrats' decision to change the filibuster rules? It sounds like a real inside Washington story. But it could have a huge impact, right?
ZELIZER: It's a really important story. I mean, people sometimes their eyes glaze over when you talk about the filibuster but what the filibuster has done is make everything in Washington require 60 votes in the Senate which is incredibly hard to obtain. So now the Senate Democrats have reformed that on judicial nominations and we've seen that the courts are already starting to change and the question is that this scares Republicans from filibustering on other kinds of legislation.
If all that stops, if the filibuster threat diminishes, then I think you can see a Congress that is a lot less gridlocked.
FLORES: And as we look ahead to 2014, do you think anything really big could get resolved like, let's say, immigration reform?
ZELIZER: I think immigration reform is possible. There are many Republicans who for years have been clamoring for an immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship and they have been at odds with certain Republicans in the House of Representatives. And I think Speaker Boehner's comments at the end of the year and the fact that he hired someone who worked on immigration reform for John McCain suggests he is ready to try this.
And since Senate Republicans are on board, I think immigration reform is very viable in the year ahead.
FLORES: And, Professor, your prediction for successes on Capitol Hill in 2014?
ZELIZER: Well, immigration reform would be the big one that I think has a chance of passing and the other issue that's always there that I think has a chance in 2014 is tax reform. Congress is desperate to raise money and there are many people in both parties who say, close some loopholes. That's the best way the government can get more money quickly and without raising tax rates.
FLORES: All right, Professor Julian Zelizer in New York for us, thank you so much.
ZELIZER: Thank you.
FLORES: And still ahead, an about-face on "Duck Dynasty." The reality show star is back on action after a very short suspension. Good move? We're discussing it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FLORES: Phil Robertson's exile from "Duck Dynasty" didn't last long. Nine days after suspending him from the wildly popular show A&E reversed itself -- welcoming him back to the flock.
Robertson was suspended for controversial comments he made to "GQ" magazine, calling homosexuality sinful and comparing it to bestiality. But his critics weren't as loud as his fans.
Did A&E do the right thing or is giving in to the show's fans sending the wrong message?
Joining me now are two CNN political commentators, Ben Ferguson, host of "The Ben Ferguson Show", and Marc Lamont Hill, associate professor at Columbia University.
Marc, I want to start with you. A&E is a business. Let's face it. Their customers wanted Robertson back. What were they supposed to do?
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATORS: Well, they are a corporation and corporations typically don't move based on their own individual sentiments nor do they move based on politics. They often move based on money. They want to maximize their shareholder wealth, they want to maximize an opportunity right now with a show that has 14 million viewers. And they did the financially correct thing to do.
I think it was morally wrong. I think it was politically wrong. But I think they made a decision that most companies would make. But when you say what were they supposed to do, I think they were supposed to stand with their -- with the community. I think they were supposed to stand with the many LGBT viewers and supporters in their fan base and their viewership base.
I think they were supposed to do the right thing even if it cost them money. Isn't that what morality and values are all about? They shouldn't be driven by profit motives.
FLORES: Ben, Robertson said some things that offended a lot of people, a lot of Americans.
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
FLORES: Does A&E owe them anything?
FERGUSON: No, I don't. I think suspending him, having a conversation with him and the family and bring him back was exactly the right thing to do. I mean, the family even said they did not agree with the course way that Phil said some certain things in that interview. But if you read the actual interview, he also listed 12 other sins. And he said, look, I'm quoting basically what I believe in through the Bible. There are people that don't like it. There are people that don't like their aura, these sins in the Bible, and the way that he said it was not the correct way to say it.
I said that from the very beginning. But I think they should bring him back. I mean, this show is not some evil show. The show talks about family. Family values, morality. They don't cuss. They're not sleeping around. They're not screaming at each other. They're not doing drugs like the mass majority of other reality TV shows out there.
So can a man make a mistake in America and say sorry for the way he said something? Obviously Phil said he was sorry for the way he said it and people are ready to move on. But the show itself is not some evil show. And if people watch it, I think they -- 14 other million people watching it on a regular basis agree with me.
(CROSSTALK)
FLORES: And Marc --
HILL: But that's not what the show --
FLORES: People have a choice. No one is making people watch "Duck Dynasty." If people hate what Robertson said, why can they just not watch?
HILL: That's absolutely what they can do. And I hope that millions of people no longer watch the show if they believe that it's something that offends their sensibilities and their politics and their values. But the question here is that -- the issue here rather is not only do individual consumers have choices that they can make and rights that they exercise. But so do corporations.
A company doesn't have to hire somebody. He is entirely allowed to say whatever he wants and whatever he believes. And I never want him to be silenced. I will fight to the death for his ability to say the most awful, heinous things that he says. But I as a consumer and A&E as a corporation also has a right that I want to defend to say we don't want to stand next to somebody who espouses these values.
This isn't about "Duck Dynasty" being a bad show, being a homophobic show. It's about an individual person saying things that many of us find deplorable and not wanting to see him employed by that value and by that logic. And it's a market based decision. We're not silencing free speech. He can say what he wants. But he doesn't have to have a TV show.
FLORES: Now, Ben, right after he was suspended A&E actually began running marathons of "Duck Dynasty."
FERGUSON: Sure.
FLORES: Now that he's back on, do you feel this outcome was, let's say, just predetermined, part of the plan, you think?
FERGUSON: I think this is a massive moneymaker for A&E. It's a show that's incredibly popular. It's a merchandise Mecca that makes far more money off the merchandise than even the advertising on the show. And I think they realized maybe there is such thing as forgiveness. I mean, look at the insane things that reality TV stars say --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Oh, please, Ben.
FERGUSON: Let me finish. Look at the insane things that reality TV stars say all the time. Look at twerking by Miley Cyrus. This guy said something that some people say is politically incorrect. But at the end of the day, he stands up for what he believes in, that is the Bible. He made a reference to 12 sins in the "GQ" magazine.
I mean, if you read the article in "GQ", it's pretty obvious to me that that writer does not like Christians, it was a hit piece, it was an article written with tons of curse words in it, mocking Christianity. And nobody on the Christian side said we should -- we should ban "GQ" magazine, we should say that you should -- everyone should cancel their subscription to "GQ." So both sides here were able to get a point of view out there.
I think one side got attacked a little bit harder because they are Christians and they do believe in the Bible and people don't like that because the Bible talks about right and wrong and people don't like that.
FLORES: Marc, final word.
HILL: No, it's not that. People have different views of what right and wrong are. And people have different ways of interpreting the Bible. There are plenty of Christians, very devout Christians, who don't agree with what Phil Robertson said and who don't think that what he said reflects Christian values or Christian ethics.
So this isn't a question of people attacking Christianity. And yes, people -- if people thought lie Christianity was being attacked by "GQ" magazine they have every right to say we don't want to buy "GQ" anymore.
FERGUSON: It was.
HILL: And so I suspect the people who watch "Duck Dynasty" aren't exactly buying "GQ" magazine very often. But I do disagree with your other point there, Ben, which is somehow that A&E believes in forgiveness. A&E -- this was never about morals or conscience for them. It was always about money. They didn't suspend him for nine days. They gave him a -- it was a press release and it was free advertisement for the show.
What does it mean to suspend someone for nine days when the show never stops taping, when they never stop advertising, and when they run a marathon during the suspension? No one lost a dollar, no one lost a day of work. This was nothing but trying to make people feel good who are protesting at the same time winking to the people who are going to continue to watch the show who don't give a darn about homophobia in this country.
FERGUSON: See --
FLORES: All right. We're -- I'm going to have interrupt because we're going to lighten up the mood a little here.
(LAUGHTER)
Guys, and we're going to talk some football.
FERGUSON: I don't know if lightening it up when we deal football is coming up, all right?
(LAUGHTER)
FLORES: You're absolutely right, Ben. So, Ben is in Dallas and he's a big Dallas fan.
FERGUSON: Yes.
FLORES: Marc, a Philly fan, right?
HILL: Yes. Exactly.
FLORES: So you may have heard of Tony Romo --
FERGUSON: It's going to be a bad day for Marc tomorrow.
(LAUGHTER)
FLORES: The Cowboys quarterback now he's out for the season, we should say. We'll hear what these two football fanatics think about tomorrow's showdown. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FLORES: Are you ready for some football? The NFL's regular season ends tomorrow and the primetime game features two rivals, the Eagles and the Cowboys. One game, one spot in the playoffs. But the Cowboys will take the field without their biggest star quarterback, Tony Romo.
Who will win and the bigger question, which team deserves it the most?
Cowboys fan, Ben Ferguson, and Eagles loyalist, Marc Lamont Hill, join me again.
I love that you guys have your jerseys.
HILL: Yes.
FLORES: I want to know who feels --
FERGUSON: Hey, you know what -- FLORES: -- like their team is due? Who has suffered more? Ben, 30 seconds.
FERGUSON: Let me tell you. Let me tell you. Tony Romo -- this jersey I've got on right now, OK, is not a Romo jersey because it's sold out. Because everyone wanted to support Tony Romo since he had the season ending surgery.
I think the Cowboys are due. I think Phillys are going to come in, they're going to be in Jerry's world, they're going to be terrified of this other quarterback they have not been planning for. I think the team is going to be playing for Tony Romo. The guy had serious surgery.
I'm just saying, if I'm a Philly fan, I'm not sure I'd watch the entire game tomorrow. That's all I'm saying.
FLORES: Marc, are the stars going to align for you?
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: There's not going to be a need to watch the entire game. By halftime, we'll be up by five touchdowns as you'll see. But let me be clear, I wish -- I wish Tony Romo were playing because Tony Romo has a remarkable ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. He always loses the game for the Cowboys. I'm -- I was actually sending him get well cards.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Except last week.
HILL: To support him for --
FERGUSON: Except last week. Hey, all right, I'll make you bet on national TV.
HILL: He beat the Redskins -- he beat the Redskins, Ben.
FERGUSON: Here's the deal.
HILL: That's like beating (INAUDIBLE) friends.
FERGUSON: All right. This is what I'll say. It's my team, when my team beats your team, OK, you've got -- I'm going to ship you this jersey, FedEx it to you, and you've got to wear it on TV next time we are on.
FLORES: For the next segment.
HILL: Fair enough. And you've got -- you've got to wear -- I'm going to send you a Nick Foles jersey, my quarterback is playing this week. You're going to wear this Nick Foles jersey on TV. We're going to win and we're going to win big in Dallas.
FERGUSON: Hey, Marc? HILL: There's only two things we do in Philadelphia, we've been -- we boo Santa and we beat Cowboys. And that's what's going to happen.
FLORES: I love the trash talk. Thank you so much for joining us. And we will talk about it later for sure.
FERGUSON: Go Cowboys.
(LAUGHTER)
HILL: Eagles. E-A-G-L-E-S. Eagles.
FLORES: All right. Thank you so much.
And we move on to this. In Seattle, Big Bertha, the underground drilling machine has hit something it can't get past.
Stephanie Elam has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No doubt, Bertha is a behemoth. At five stories tall, she's billed as the largest diameter tunneling machine in the world. And she was put to work grinding a tunnel under Seattle for a planned highway. But Bertha was only a tenth of the way on her nearly two-mile journey when she suddenly encountered something large enough and strong enough to stop her in her tracks.
KADEENA YERKAN, WASHINGTON STATE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION: We're being really cautious. We want to make sure that we don't damage this $80 million machine.
ELAM: But what is it? The mystery is fueling lots of speculation. Geologists point to how Seattle's watery edges were filled in with just about anything by the city's pioneers.
DAVID B. WILLIAMS, GEOLOGIST: You find old shoes, newspapers. There's a boat buried in downtown Seattle. So, you name it, it could be down there.
ELAM: Another theory is it's a massive boulder left during the Ice Age. Residents have their own guesses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some kind of burial ground, maybe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes. She's taking a Christmas break, you know what I'm saying? Merry Christmas, Big Bertha. You know what I'm saying?
ELAM: If that's the case, Bertha's Christmas break started two weeks ago. Since then, the $3 billion tunnel project has been on hold as workers drill wells to alleviate water pressure in front of Bertha in hopes of sending workers to the front of the drill to see what she's up against. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't back the machine up. You got the segment aligning in behind you. So all you can really do is proceed forward.
ELAM: But the Transportation Department says Bertha won't be moving forward until at least early next year after the mystery is solved.
Stephanie Elam, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLORES: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rosa Flores.
The FBI is on the hunt for a man they say shot one police officer to death and badly wounded another. The officers were shot in Tupelo, Mississippi, when they faced off with the man reportedly trying to rob a bank.
On the phone with me now from an FBI command post in Tupelo, Mississippi, Special Agent Daniel McMullen.
Agent McMullen, tell us about your suspect. What led him to Tupelo and where do you think he might be right now?
