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Arctic Blast Freezes Nearly Half of Nation; NSA Denies Spying on Members of Congress; Brain Injury Cases Raise Ethical Issues; Suspect in Priest Killing Jailed Hours Before; Massive Snow Storms, Cold Sweep U.S.; MSNBC Host Apologizes to Mitt Romney's Family; Does P.C. Halt Conversation on Tough Issues?
Aired January 04, 2014 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Martin Savidge. Welcome. It is good to be with you today. There's a lot to talk about, so let's go. 2014, not even 4 days old but already the New Year means one major thing to millions of Americans, unbelievable cold. Nor'easters and dangerous blizzards.
In Minnesota, no school Monday. Anywhere in the state. The governor already making that call. Philadelphia, single-digit temperatures and ice are on the way as the cold wave moves eastward from the Midwest. The nine inches of snow that fell in the city yesterday froze solid overnight. And we'll see what real football fans are made of tomorrow afternoon at Lambeau Field in Green Bay, Wisconsin, as the packers will play the San Francisco 49ers in that open-air stadium where the forecast is calling for temperatures that will feel around 20 below zero at game time. Could go down in the books as the coldest pro football game ever to be played.
More than 15 inches of snow fell on Boston in the city. Nearly two feet accumulated in the suburbs. Margaret Conley is there, and, Margaret, everything actually looks wonderful now, sunny and bright, but it's about to get very, very cold. "The Boston Globe" reporter called the last few days insultingly cold. How are people looking forward to this next punch?
MARGARET CONLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That about sums it up Martin. Right now it's about 20 degrees warmer than it was this morning. It was two degrees and overnight we had near record low temperatures. You can see people out now. We're standing in a church parking lot. There's a mass at 4:00. People were coming in and out. But the biggest obstacle seems to be the snow. You can see the snow plowed up and pushed aside here. People have been trying to traipse through it throughout the day. Statewide over the last few days 3,400 snowplows were sent out to deal with all the snow. Their capacity is 4,000.
So, you know the state was putting everything out on these plows. But, Martin, the thing is we've made it through the snow and we've made it through the wind, but up next is rain. They're expecting heavy rainfall tomorrow and into Monday. So, we're already getting warnings from emergency workers about rooftops. People are saying the snow is packed on rooftops. The heavy rain is going to come and people need to really be clearing off those rooftops for safety and for security of those buildings -- Martin. SAVIDGE: All right, Margaret, it's just astounding you go from so much cold and snow now to a deluge of rain. Thanks very much.
That harsh winter storm by the way is not finished. Tom Murphy of CBC was in Nova Scotia, Canada, as the wind and snow created whiteout conditions.
TOM MURPHY, CBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: By midday the storm was really in full swing, there's lots of snow. But in some places, that wasn't the real issue, the traffic has been obviously the problem here. Trying to get through the city on streets that have not been fully plowed, yes, it's been a concern, but it's the high winds that are blowing all that snow around that is causing really whiteout conditions in many places around the province certainly here in the city of Halifax. Those whiteouts have been leading to the closures of many institutions around the city including the university and lobby offices around town.
The real problem has been the snow on the streets, building up, and where the snow in the streets have been cleared and there have not been that many of them the salt because it's so cold is just not working, and so it's making for slippery driving conditions and officials are telling people unless you really absolutely have to be driving and on the streets of Halifax, stay off them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MURPHY: What is your chosen mode of transportation here, skis?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We thought it would be a good day to do it. A lot of snow on the ground and I thought I would give it a shot today.
MURPHY: And not much traffic.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: No, it's like a snow day everywhere. It's fun to get out.
MURPHY: How would you describe the walk with the dogs today?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: A bit rough. Wasn't it?
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Icy. Very cold. Very blustery. But still fun.
MURPHY: How do the dogs do?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: They love it. They're like little bunny rabbits jumping around in the snow, they love it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURPHY: So, mail carriers are out there and getting about the streets of Halifax. But it's not been easygoing. We've really had more winter weather so far this season than we had all of last winter. So, the snow clearing budgets are really being stretched. The city of Halifax tells us they have a full compliment, the snow removal crews out around the city trying to keep up but it's been a real challenge today. Tom Murphy CBC News, Halifax.
SAVIDGE: There you see how our friends in the north are suffering from the same weather.
MURPHY: January is typically cold but not like this. CNN meteorologist Alexandra Steele explains what's behind the frigid temperatures.
ALEXANDRA STEELE, AMS METEOROLOGIST: All right, Martin. We talked last week about how cold it was, right? This week we've taken cold to a new level. What we're going to see is actually a piece of the polar vortex which is the coldest air in the northern hemisphere come in. So it's very rarefied air, we haven't seen temperatures like this in 20 years for some. Wind-chills tomorrow, Duluth that will feel like 34 below, almost 30 below.
In Minneapolis, of course, the game tomorrow 14 below is what it will feel at Lambeau. And then we continue and look at 55 below. Really the heart of this cold is Monday, Tuesday time frame. But unlike what we saw last week it gets colder, but it will going to make its way farther south. So, look at this, give you a little perspective, anchorage temperature 32 degrees. International falls 15 below. So it's going to be colder in international falls than in anchorage. On average, temperature in anchorage is about six. So, St. Louis and Chicago, 11 below, it will be colder in Chicago than anchorage. It will be colder in St. Louis than anchorage.
Colder in Atlanta, Georgia, than anchorage. So you can see this cold air dropping south and east. So, we've got the cold air in place. We also have a new snowstorm developing. Now, this will just be a Midwestern affair. Because the moisture is coming in, bringing snow, quite a bit of snow, Milwaukee, Chicago, Flint, Detroit. But as this moisture moves eastward it's going to move eastward on Monday when temperatures in the northeast will still be about 40 or 50. So it will be a rainmaker for the northeast. So, the timing in the northeast, the moisture comes in, but the cold air comes in a day later.
So, it could have been a snowstorm but it will just be a rainstorm and then the cold air comes in. Forecast delays, of course, tomorrow, Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles and even the northeast will see airport delays. New York because of the low clouds and the rain. D.C. and Atlanta because of low clouds as well. So, look at Chicago, Chicago's forecast one interesting thing will be the dramatic temperature drop here. Monday the temperature will be 12 below for the high temperature. Straight air temperature, not even the wind-chill. Look at what happens to New York.
Monday when the rain comes in it's a rain game because the temperatures almost 50. If that moisture were to have come in the next day on Tuesday, it certainly would have been a snow affair. So, 14 degrees. So, 30 to 40 degrees temperature drop, we're going to see from New York to Nashville. Look at Nashville drops from 50 on Sunday to seven. These are the high temperatures. So, can you imagine how low it's all going to go? So, Martin, really cold air, no question about that. We're going to see an incredible amount of moisture, but the timing on it's a little off for the northeast.
SAVIDGE: Yes. Forget Miami. I think I'm booking my vacation for anchorage.
STEELE: Hey, I'm going to get there, too, even to New Orleans.
SAVIDGE: All right, Alexandra, thanks very much.
STEELE: Sure.
SAVIDGE: Well, stay right here because we're going to go live to Long Island in just a few minutes. The snow has stopped. That's one shoe. But the next one that's about to drop, yes, bitter cold. Stay with us.
And Australia is getting the ice breaking might of the U.S. Coast Guard now coming to the rescue of those ships that have been stuck in Antarctica. This has now become a four-nation operation. Australia, of course, is taking the lead in the effort and is now getting another icebreaker, the U.S. icebreaker named "The Polar Star" to join the mission. The two ships stuck in the ice are a Russian research ship, you may remember that one with a crew and the Chinese icebreaker which became stranded trying to help, you got it, the Russian vessel. Fifty two passengers on the Russian ship were flown off earlier in the week but 22 crew members remained on board. They've still got plenty of food, they're all right.
In New York City, three people were lucky to survive after their small plane made an emergency landing on a New York thruway. Authorities said the plane had engine trouble when it was forced to set down on a busy highway in the Bronx. Fire officials say three people were taken to the hospital, but they were not in serious or not nonlife threatening injuries.
The National Security Agency once nearly invisible and unknown today founds itself in the glare of a growing Congressional discontent. Senator Rand Paul has invited everyone in the United States with a cell phone to join his class action suit to stop the NSA from collecting phone records. And another Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont recently asked the NSA point-blank, are you spying on members of Congress?
Sunlen Serfaty joins us now from Washington. Sunlen, the NSA is attracting of course a lot of unwanted attention. What has been the reaction from them?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first and foremost, Martin, Senator Bernie Sanders the independent from Vermont, he's been outspoken in the past on this issue, but in a letter sent Friday on the NSA director, he really does get personal. He calls the data collection by the NSA, quote, "spying" and he asked specifically of the NSA, quote, "Has the NSA spied or is the NSA currently spying on members of Congress or other American elect the officials?" Now, today the senator got a response from the NSA, sort of, the spokesperson for the NSA wrote back, basically not saying yes or no, saying that members of Congress, well, they're just like everyone else.
Here's what they said -- NSA's authorities to collect signal intelligence data include procedures that protect the privacy of U.S. persons. Such protections are built into and cut across the entire process they say and members of Congress have the same privacy protections as all U.S. persons. Now, the NSA tells the senators that they will continue to review his questions. Sanders has already, of course, introduced legislation in Congress to put some limits on the NSA and we'll, of course, hear more about what reforms President Obama will propose when we hear from him later this month. He's been reviewing these recommendations while he's on vacation in highway Hawaii. He said he'll speak on it definitively Martin on this issue very soon.
SAVIDGE: All right, Sunlen, thank you very much. A member of a church is heartbroken after their priest was found dead on New Year's Day. But now they're outraged to learn that the prime suspect was in police custody just hours before. That story just ahead.
Plus, a coroner has now issued a death certificate for a young California girl who was declared brain dead. But Jahi McMath's family is working to have her transferred to a new hospital and they don't have much time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: A pair of tragic medical cases have brought the conversation of life and death to the forefront and they touch on the way we talk about what happens when someone suffers a severe brain injury and whether the phrase brain dead has created a misperception that a loved one could somehow come back to life.
Finley Boyle, a three-year-old Hawaiian girl who suffered massive brain damage after undergoing a dental procedure last month died Friday night. Her neurologist said the MRI showed the girl suffered severe brain damage and that she was in a, quote, "persistent vegetative state," unquote. And just yesterday, the family of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old girl who had been declared dead by doctors reached an agreement with the hospital for the release of the girl to another facility. This came the same day the coroner's office issued her death certificate.
Joining me now to talk about all of this is the author of "Five Days at Memorial," Dr. Sheri Fink, criminal defense Attorney Holly Hughes and psychologist Dr. Jeff Gardere. Ethicists say that brain death is somehow not as final as cardiac death even though by definition, it is. So, Dr. Gardere, let me begin with you. Do you agree with that?
DR. JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST/FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think when we look at this whole issue of being cortically dead, we're talking about the person being brain dead, at this point positions can actually declare the patient's dead and no longer need to actually give treatment. The problem is, if you have someone who is cortically dead, but their heart is still beating, their blood is still flowing, and you have people like in the case of the young African-American girl who say, look spiritually, we believe that she may still recover, now you have a problem because of vegetative state is not the same thing as being cortically dead.
SAVIDGE: You know, you've got sort of a clash between Science and faith.
GARDERE: That's right.
SAVIDGE: Holly, let me ask you this. A group, we don't often think about this particular time. Doctors and the impact on them when dealing with this horrible circumstance.
HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Right. And each state has their own different laws, Martin. So, it's very difficult. You know, the doctors may seem insensitive to these families but they have got to follow the law in their state. And if their state says, that once, you know, there is brain dead, and there's no other legal document in place, this is why so important for people, adults, you know, right now, we're talking about children but especially adults to feel out what we called, do not resuscitate order. They need to put their wishes down and let their wishes be known ahead of time. So, that a legal document is already in place because while it seems insensitive these doctors are constricted by the law and they will have to at some point, disconnect those ventilators on this brain dead patients.
SAVIDGE: And I guess that's important thing to be noted for all of us out of this conversation, even on the specific cases. Let me ask you this, Sheri, what about the doctors, not the doctors rather, when we say insensitivity here, you have to think about the cost and how much money is spent here. Does that play apart here?
SHERI FINK, AUTHOR, "FIVE DAYS AT MEMORIAL": Well, I think if you decide that is up to the family in this case to move the patient and have their daughter received the care that they wish her to have, then yes, it does become a question of cost. And it's interesting, you know, we don't actually have to take people off of ventilators. Yes, you're right that is that legal definition of death that is expected in all states now. But in fact, there's certain states including New York that allows for some reasonable accommodation of the patients or the family member's moral or religious wishes. So, that's kind of interesting. California doesn't have that but it does become a question of, you know, does society pay for this, does the hospital or the family in this case.
SAVIDGE: Right. It's a very interesting point. Dr. Gardere, who do you think should be ultimately responsible for making the decision to cut off life support?
GARDERE: Well, again, Holly's correct. When we look at the DNR, do not resuscitate, that's one of the ways that the patient actually gives the executive decision to someone who they trust. But at the end of the day all the ethicists have said if the patient is cortically dead, the physician does have the right to say that the patient is dead and we don't have to give any more help. But if the patient is not going to get better and they continue to live and they continue to have a beating heart, then the families actually are the other ones who can give the executive decision as to what happens. You can keep treating, treating, treating, treating even though the patient is not getting better. So, we have to figure out a better way to take care of the needs of the patient which is what it comes down to at the end of the day whether they're alive or dead.
SAVIDGE: Sheri, let me ask you this real quick. Brain dead versus coma, does it make a difference in these situations?
FINK: It does make a difference because we have these laws now, the laws actually go back historically. You know, we didn't used to have this. It used to be that somebody's brain stopped functioning irreversibly, their heart and lungs would stop. Now we have life support, now we have transplant medicine and these laws actually trace back to the need for, you know, if doctors wanted to take organs from a patient whose brain had irreversibly stopped functioning, they were afraid that they could be accused of murder. So we have laws in place that say that brain death is equivalent to death.
But, you know, this is why -- this is a special case versus these cases of persistent vegetative states where we have a long processes of decision in terms of whether that patient should or should not be removed from a ventilator and whether or not that was or was not the wishes. So, this is a specific case when it is brain death, when that is, you know, an accepted definition of death in this country.
SAVIDGE: And it's, of course, made even worse by the fact that we're dealing with children. Holly, I want to ask you this. You know, what happened before and during and after all of these? These were surgeries, and I suppose the surgery is a separate issue. But what recourse does the family have?
HUGHES: Well, what you're looking at is a medical negligence case, Martin, and they will, in fact, file against the doctor, the hospitals, the anesthetist, I have problems with that one like you do with ethicist. Right? Anybody who was involved in the surgery, if there was negligence of any kind, then they will sue under that in their particular state looking for damages not just for the medical negligence but for the emotional distress that the family is also going through and as a preventive measure to sort of send a message to these medical institutions that if you mess up this badly, there has to be a punitive measure as well and that's what we call punitive damages, so you're going to see the families seeking all of these different recourse. And it's not, you know, money can't bring a child back but, again, you do want to send the message that you have to be so careful when you enter into these surgeries to make sure that everything is done properly.
SAVIDGE: Yes. You know, naturally we would never wish any of this on anyone.
HUGHES: Right.
SAVIDGE: But these are kind of the lessons we learn from these sort of tragedies that we all can apply. Thank you to all of my guests, Sherrie, thanks, Holly, Jeff as well. We're not done with you yet though because in just a moment, we'll going to talk about a couple of other cases.
A World War II veteran in Kansas, he can't afford to make repairs to his business, so he's been thrown in jail. It sounds like debtor's prison. The details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: This next story I worked on during the week was a brutal murder of a Catholic priest in California and things might have turned out differently if police officers had held the suspect just a little bit longer. That was on Wednesday morning. The staff at St. Bernard Church in Humboldt County called police after finding Reverend Eric Freed's body. He was allegedly killed at the hands of Gary Lee Bullock. But get this, Bullock was released from jail just hours before the crime allegedly happened.
So, let's talk about it and joining me to do that again, criminal defense Attorney Holly Hughes and psychologist Dr. Jeff Gardere, and, Holly, first, to the court and other records that were obtained by CNN. They did not see any violent crimes in Bullock's history. And I'm wondering, is there any way that police could have held him longer to keep him from what he did?
HUGHES: No, absolutely not. Because if they had held him longer, they would have been looking at a lawsuit for violating his civil liberties. He was picked up for being a little disorderly, a little bit out of control.
SAVIDGE: Public intoxication.
HUGHES: Right. Exactly. And, you know, they held him as long as they could and then they had to release him. You can't just hold on to someone indefinitely because of a future crime, because of something they might do in the future. There's no way to predict that, Martin. And so, they did what they were legally bound to do under the law and if you think about it, if this had gone the other way, if they'd have held on to him, we would be up in arms about that. Oh, he was drunk and you held him for this many hours and how dare you do that.
SAVIDGE: How about finding him a place to go. I mean, they just sort of released him on the street, what about getting him into a shelter, making sure he had a place to go, they don't have a responsibility for that?
HUGHES: Well, you can argue there's a moral responsibility to do it but legally no. I mean, they cannot be -- and this is an adult. We're not talking about they picked up a juvenile and then just turned him out when he sobered up with his little ticket and say come back and he answer for these charges later. This is a fully grown adult man.
SAVIDGE: All right. Let's get Jeff in on this conversation, too. I should add that CNN's effort to reach the lawyer who represented Bullock in this case were unsuccessful. Dr. Gardere, I'm wondering, you know, police are, of course, desperate to find a motive in this case, but they do say that this man was acting erratic hours earlier. Do you think they're going to be digging into his mental state as part of this?
GARDERE: Certainly they will be I guess when we look at 20/20 hindsight, that's a great thing. But Holly, again, is correct that there was no legal responsibility on the part of the police. But, Martin, you're absolutely correct. I think there was a moral responsibility for the police officers to say, look, we have this adult. This guy's been acting erratically. Severe intoxication. Let's take some responsibility here. We know that mental health is the number one issue of our times right now. That a lot of horrible things have happened when people have not been in their right mind and certainly this person wasn't. And certainly now where we see being charged with this crime of allegedly killing this priest. Now we know that something more should have been done, and this is where we need to get social workers and psychologists involved much more in working in the Police Department because the police are the first ones, the first responders, to a lot of mental health and drug abuse issues.
HUGHES: I got to jump in here for just a second. You can't commit an adult. I mean, there was no diagnosis here on record. This man was picked up for public intoxication, just because he's acting a little weird, the police officers are not psychiatrists, they're not psychologists. Again, you can't just detain somebody because you think they're a little loopy. This is something that would have had to have been done in a court of law. They would have had to have found him incompetent, involuntary committed him. So, really, their hands were tied. When you are talking about legally, Dr. Jeff is right, mental illness is the number one problem --
SAVIDGE: So many of our stories we've talked about.
HUGHES: Exactly right. In the criminal justice system and how many of these mass shootings do we look at and we trace it back to it is gun control issue but it is largely a mental health issue.
GARDERE: Holly --
SAVIDGE: Go ahead, Jeff.
GARDERE: Holly, I agree with you that yes, certainly you cannot go ahead and commit someone who we don't know whether they're a danger to themselves or others but we do have social workers, we do have psychologists and so on who were there who can perhaps offer some counseling, offer some direction and maybe put them on the trail to getting into a homeless shelter that has some sort of aftercare. And I think that's what we'll going to need to do more and more because we know people with mental health issues are landing in jail and not getting the help that they need.
SAVIDGE: Yes. We're all in agreement on that. I want to go to this other story real quickly. And it's switching gears dramatically, but it's out of Kansas and it's a World War II vet that faced city code violations because his office building has a cracked exterior wall and bricks near the basement door, he couldn't pay for the repairs, so he's been arrested. This sounds amazing, it does sound like a debtor's prison. Holly, can they do that?
HUGHES: Technically, yes, they can. It's what we called code violation and you can be called before the court to answer for not keeping your building up to par. Again, let's flip this, Martin, right? Being a lawyer that's what I do, I look at it from both sides, what if those bricks fell and hurt somebody, a child or something like that? I will say, I think the judge went a little bit too far. The judge has discretion. If you want to find the elderly gentleman -- he's 88 years old, Martin, 88, and you're going to throw him in prison for the first time in his life. That's a little bit ridiculous. OK. You have discretion. Make him pay the $100 fine and say, you have 30 days, I want you to report back to me in 30 days. Bring it up to code.
SAVIDGE: Jeff, shouldn't some kind of compassion have been shown on this man?
GARDERE: I think Burt Bacharach said it best, anyone who had a heart, right? So, we're talking about a very small town, and I have a feeling that this vet who should have been given a break perhaps got into some sort of a contest that starts with a "p" with the judge and being that they all know one another, this person perhaps being cantankerous was trying to make an example and teach him a lesson about being humble. But I really do believe something better could have been done. They should have made some sort of a better offer to help him to pay his taxes and to do these repairs.
SAVIDGE: Hopefully, they will now.
Jeff, thanks.
Holly, as well.
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: These have been very difficult topics but you make them so interesting and important. Thanks.
OK. Moving on. On the heels of a massive snowstorm, now comes this fierce Arctic cold front. It's sweeping across the country. It's threatening to push low temperatures even lower and possibly shatter records across the U.S. We'll talk more about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: We are continuing our weather theme coverage, what we've been through in some areas, and what we are headed, to which is the basement when it comes to the temperature in some places.
CNN viewers have been feeding us some great photos of that nor'easter and the blizzard and what's been happening in their neighborhoods.
And Jennifer Mayerle has been digging through the photos, found some gems, and found some from family, too, I hear.
JENNIFER MAYERLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. We found a lot of great pictures out there, people having fun in the snow. And we've been talking about the cold temperatures coming for the football game tomorrow in Green Bay. Tonight, there's another football game. And a fan got creative with how she decided to give her team some support on Twitter. Do you see that? Katherine Curry, she wrote "who-dat" in the snow and "what weather?" Who-dat loves a chilly breeze. And certainly Saints fans will know what she's talking about there.
SAVIDGE: Oh, yeah, yeah.
MAYERLE: Giving some love there.
The next photo takes us to Chicago. And that's where there is a nearly frozen Lake Michigan. You can see there's just chunks of ice there in the lake, and that's looking towards Navy Pier. Definitely cold temperatures coming to Chicago.
And the next photo we're looking at, Fire Island, New York, that's a place a lot of people like to vacation in the summer. This time of year --
(CROSSTALK)
MAYERLE: -- frozen over. There's a lot of wind in that area blowing that water right onto that bench there, freezing it over completely. It kind of looks like a cold seat there. Lots of icicles.
And the next picture we're looking at, it's a little closer to home for me. It's a place that I recognize. Take a look. There's a snowman in the yard and it says, "Yeah, no school on Monday." We know that Governor Dayton canceled class on Monday for all schools in Minnesota, all around the state because of the expected cold temperatures. My dad, Tom, took that picture. That's in our neighborhood. I grew up in a suburb of Minneapolis. And, yeah, they got kind of creative with the snow man there.
SAVIDGE: Well, you have to. You have to enjoy it and make your way through it with a sense of humor and a smile if you can.
MAYERLE: Yeah. The kids will be having a snow day there on Monday and maybe some of the parents as well.
SAVIDGE: They will be thrilled.
MAYERLE: We want to see what you have out there so send your pictures or video to CNN.com/ireport.
SAVIDGE: It's very nice. It makes a nice change from all the serious stuff.
MAYERLE: Absolutely.
SAVIDGE: Thanks, Jennifer.
Coming up, a TV host breaks down in tears. She was apologizing about Mitt Romney and his family. We'll explain right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Back to the hour's top story on CNN, brutal winter weather has already dumped heavy snow on the Midwest and New England but that is just the first of a one-two punch, unfortunately.
Our Rosa Flores is on Long Island, in Sayreville, New York, very picturesque.
And, Rosa, winter is about to pound Long Island once more. How are people there getting ready?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's cold, Martin. The sun is down and so are the temperatures. And it's been quite the roller coaster. Just to give you an idea, I talked to a resident earlier who said she was out at about 5:30 this morning. It was about 2 degrees. Well, throughout the day those temperatures were rising. Probably rose to 29. Right now it's about 26 degrees here in Sayreville.
Just to give you an idea, Sayreville is in the south shore of Long Island. Lots of great people here. But probably, from what you can see around me, you can tell that there was about a foot of snow here. The good news is the streets were plowed. They were sanded. They were salted. And so folks were able to get around. They were not worried about that situation because all of those services were out and about.
I've got to introduce you to someone that I just met here in town. This is Brian, a man of a wonderful spirit. He was just walking by, playing the harmonica.
Brian, you've got this great spirit. It is cold. It is frigid. It is quite miserable. Yet, you're smiling and you're playing the harmonica out here. What's your high?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Natural life. I'm feeling good. Good food. Good conversation. And people like you.
FLORES: Now, were you singing the blues? Can you play your harmonica for us?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most certainly.
(CROSSTALK)
FLORES: That's right. Let me give you some inspiration, plowing, snow, and cold temperatures.
(SINGING)
FLORES: Martin, with that, I'll toss it back to you.
(SINGING)
SAVIDGE: That is wonderful.
Rosa Flores, and friend, in the cold on Long Island, thanks very much for cheering us up.
We'll have a story coming up next about the woes of MSNBC host, Melissa Harris Perry, and her apology, and is it enough. We'll talk about that in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: MSNBC host, Melissa Harris Perry, teared-up on national television today. It happened during an apology to Mitt Romney's family for controversial comments about Romney's recently adopted African-American grandson. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA HARRIS PERRY, MSNBC HOST: My intention was not malicious but I broke the ground rule that families are off limits, and for that, I am sorry.
Also, allow me to apologize to other families formed through trans- racial adoption because I am deeply sorry that we suggested that interracial families are in any way funny or deserving of ridicule. On this program, we are dedicated to advocating for a wide diversity of families. It is one of our core principles. And I am reminded that when we are doing so, it must always be with the utmost respect, generally appreciative of everyone who offered serious criticisms of last Sunday's program. And our fiercest critics can sometimes be our best teachers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: You may remember the outrage that erupted earlier this week after Harris Perry, on a panel, joked about this photo that was featuring the former GOP presidential candidate holding his grandson, Kiernan.
So, let's bring in our panel. CNN political commentator, Ben Ferguson, joining us from Dallas. And political commentator, Mark Lamont Hill, joins us from New York.
I think the first question, simple enough, is this on-air apology from Harris Perry enough?
Mark, you first?
MARK LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I absolutely think it was enough. Earlier in the week, people blasted her for not offering a public apology on television. They say she only did it through Twitter. People had to be reminded it was a weekend show, and we needed to give her until Saturday to do so. As soon as the show opened she gave a contrite apology. It was elegant and dignified and principled. It was uncompromising and it was unqualified. I think she did all she could do to honor the Romney family, to speak to where she feels she went wrong, and to move forward. SAVIDGE: Ben?
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think she certainly knew that her job was probably on the line and that's probably the reason why you saw a lot of this desperation compared to last week. But last week, this was a preplanned, in the teleprompter -- picture was produced on screen live. This was something that was well thought out for a year-end show that was supposed to be funny. And there's nothing funny about a stereotype that somehow people only of one race can adopt a child of one race, and that put the stigma out there that certainly was laughed, it was mocked about. There are millions of kids around the world that need to be adopted. There are hundreds of thousands in the U.S. And the last thing we need is a stereotype that only the race of the child who needs adoption is what can adopt that child. So for me, I'm not sure this was as much about her saving her job as it was about her really saying she was sorry for what she did. Last week, she loved it, laughed at it, and produced it. That's a problem.
HILL: That's a bit unfair, Ben. First of all, in the teleprompter last week, there wasn't racist or racial humor. What she asked was, can someone caption the picture?
Again, we're beginning with the premises today that this was a segment that shouldn't have happened, it was a bad idea and she's apologized for it. So it's not about defending what she did but let's not say she went into the segment with the mindset of mocking a child or of saying something offensive. Once the conversation started, people said things that were inappropriate and hurt feelings. She acknowledged it this week and she apologized. And there's absolutely no reason to think she was insincere. There's absolutely not reason to think she was anything less than contrite.
The question you were asked was, is this enough? That's the one question, Ben, you haven't answered. The question, again, is, do you think this is was enough?
FERGUSON: I think --
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Ben, let me ask you this. Do you think she should have been fired?
FERGUSON: I think there certainly should have been a leave of absence for some time at the bare minimum. And I think the reality is, this picture, the only reason why it was used, last week on screen, was to make fun of a white family that had adopted an African-American child. That was the whole premise of putting the picture up, was that there was a -- there was this African-American kid sitting on a white grandfather's lap, and they made fun of that. That is a problem.
HILL: Ben? Ben? Ben, you're making points as if someone is arguing to the contrary. You're arguing like a straw man right now. No one is disputing what you are saying about race and we're having the conversation we're having. The question is, was this enough? And what I find fascinating, just last week you were defending Phil Robertson. Just last week, you were defending the First Amendment. Just last week, you said people had the right to say whatever they want, even if we disagree with it, and he shouldn't be fired. And now, a week later, you are asking her to be punished in the same manner that you didn't want Phil Robertson fired. Why do you have a double standard?
FERGUSON: Mark, there's two -- Mark -- Mark, I said I had no problem with Phil Robertson. If you listen to what I said, I said I had no problem with him being suspended to send a message, and then for the reinstatement. I did not say he should be fired. I don't think she should have been fired. I think she should have been suspended and I think the apology was more about saving her career and her job than it was about what she did last week when it was celebrated and laughed. If you look at the segment, it wasn't awkward. They were living it up around this picture. The only reason why --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: That's why she's apologizing, Ben. That's why she's apologizing. Something happened that was untoward, and now she's apologized for it. Of course, if she had --
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Let me interrupt. We've covered this a lot. So let's just push this conversation forward and include "Duck Dynasty." Let's include that in the conversation we're talking about now.
It seems a lot of what is based on what is appropriate or not appropriate to say in the public, in the public arena, and I'm wondering, do you think that, you know, any of this politically is incorrect sentiment? You know, the old P.C. thing. Are we suddenly saying it's very difficult to talk about anything controversial?
And go ahead, Ben. You can start it off.
FERGUSON: Well, there's a difference between being, you know, blunt about your moral beliefs, as Phil Robertson was in his article. He was not eloquent in the way he said it. He does believe in the Bible. He does believe that there are many sins. He listed 12 of those to "GQ" magazine. There's a difference between that and taking a family picture and mocking it based on the fact there's an African-American child with white people. Those are different circumstances. One is not funny. The other is not funny. They are both serious. If you want race relations to get better, don't mock or tell a white family they can't adopt someone that is African-American or vice versa.
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Well, as we've heard, she already is very contrite.
HILL: Yes. And she never said white people couldn't adopt. That is a falsehood that's being promoted by Ben.
But the bigger point is -- (CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: It's not a falsehood when the picture dealt with that. Let's -- if we're going to not P.C. it, let's not P.C. it.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Ben, if you are saying it's an argument about adoption being made, that's fine. But let's not pretend on national television that she said black people shouldn't be adopted by white people. She simply didn't say that. She said plenty of stuff worth apologizing for. She's apologized for it. I want to move beyond that to the question that was just asked, but let's not put falsehood out there.
But to the question I was just asked about P.C., I think the term P.C. is invoked as a way for people to be protected from saying things that are offensive. Some people say, oh, political correctness stops me from being racist. Political correctness stops me from being homophobic. I think people need to be challenged for what they say. Melissa was challenged for what she said. Phil Robertson was just challenged for what he said. I think everyone has a right to free speech and everyone has an obligation to challenge people on what they say. And there has to be consequences to free speech, whether you are Democrat, whether you are Republican, whether I agree with you or whether I don't.
MARTIN: So it comes down then to you need to be civil in the conversation and be careful in the words you choose.
HILL: Absolutely.
MARTIN: You can still talk about a controversial subject but you cannot be harsh or insensitive.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Here is the thing. The picture was not an issue of sensitivity training on race relations. The picture was brought out to imply that there is something wrong, awkward or weird with a white family adopting an African-American child. That should never, ever be weird in this country, especially when you are talking about it on national TV. We should have anyone who wants to adopt to adopt them. If you know someone that's been adopted --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Ben, no one is arguing with you though. That's --
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: You are pushing this too hard.
HILL: We're all agreeing with you.
(LAUGHTER) MARTIN: None of us disagree with what you have to say. That is absolutely correct. And I believe she's apologized for it. What I'm asking is, whether it is now very difficult for anyone to talk in public in the arena of what -- television without getting people upset on one side or another or in some way.
HILL: I think we are entering a dangerous realm. I reserve the right for Ben to say things that I think are completely absurd. I hope he reserves that same right for me because Ben thinks I say crazy things all the time.
FERGUSON: And ditto.
(LAUGHTER)
HILL: Right. That's what I'm saying.
We both think the other says crazy stuff all the time. And I want to reserve the right to do that without being threatened very time it happens. We should be able to say things we disagree with but certain things should be off limits. Kids should be off limits. I think mocking the vulnerable should be off limits, in general. And I happen to think saying things that are racist or homophobic should be off limits. You have a right to say them but you have a right to be challenged on them. That's all I want. I want civility but I also want boundaries.
SAVIDGE: OK. We are going to come back after the break and continue a conversation with you on a little bit of a different subject, a football wager between you.
FERGUSON: Mark is going to like this.
HILL: No civility in football.
(LAUGHTER)
That's where I draw the line.
(LAUGHTER)
Our sensibility, and there is an asterisk there, and that's football.
MARTIN: Please, don't lose any of this during the break. We'll come back and we'll talk about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: All right, I waited an hour for this but we are finally back with the results of a football wager, political commentator versus political commentator. Who is king of football? In one corner, Dallas Cowboys fan, Ben Ferguson, who hoped his team might taste victory last Sunday without injured star quarterback, Tony Romo --
FERGUSON: Oh.
SAVIDGE: And the other corner, Philadelphia Eagles fan --
FERGUSON: We were close.
SAVIDGE: -- Mark Lamont Hill, confident in his team's ability to vanquish the Cowboys.
(LAUGHTER)
We'll take a look at last weekend's trash talking before that game.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERGUSON: I think the Cowboys are due. I think Philly is going to come in, they are going to be in Jerry's world. They are going to be terrified of this other quarterback they have not been planning for. I think the team is playing for Tony Romo. The guy had serious surgery. I'm just saying, if I'm a Philly fan, I'm not sure I would watch the entire game tomorrow. That's all I'm saying.
HILL: There's not going to be no need to watch the entire game. By halftime, we'll be up by five touchdowns. But let me be clear.
(LAUGHTER)
I wish Tony Romo would play. Tony Romo has remarkable ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. He always loses the game for the Cowboys. I'm actually sending him get-well cards.
FERGUSON: When my team beats your team, OK, I'm going to ship you this Jersey, FedEx to it to you, and you have to wear it on TV next time we are on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the next segment.
HILL: Fair enough. And you've got to wear it. I'm going to send you a jersey. My quarter back is playing this week. You are going to wear this Jersey on TV. We are going to win and we're going to win big in Dallas.
FERGUSON: You are?
HILL: There are two things we do in Philadelphia, in Philly. We boo Santa and we beat Cowboys. That's what's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Isn't it fun to look back on that. Yes, the Philadelphia Eagles beat the Dallas Cowboys. The final score, 24-22, very close.
Ben Ferguson, it's time to pay up.
FERGUSON: Not five touchdowns.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: I tried this week -- I tried this week to find a Philly jersey because Mark is too cheap to UPS or snail-mail --
(LAUGHTER)
-- a Jersey to me. I told him to use FedEx from my hometown in Memphis. He couldn't handle that. So the only thing I could find -- and I'm a man of my word. I will relentlessly --
HILL: Stop filibustering. Put the hat on.
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Look at that.
FERGUSON: It's on there.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Oh. You look great in green, man.
FERGUSON: The tags may not be taken off. I'm not going to crease the bill because I'm definitely going to return this.
(LAUGHTER)
SAVIDGE: He's going to return it.
(LAUGHTER)
HILL: Of course, you are.
FERGUSON: It's going to return. But at least I bought it for this afternoon.
So can we move on to the Super Bowl?
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Let's do that. Maybe double down here?
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: That Dallas guy doesn't get to talk about the Super Bowl. You can only go to Super Bowl if you buy a ticket to it. My Eagles will be playing in the Super Bowl.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: So let's move week by week here. We'll beat New Orleans this week. Then whoever we play, we are going win. Then an NFC championship, baby. It's going to happen. That's what I'm talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: I'm not sure we are going bet every weekend. You tell me, double or nothing for the Super Bowl. FERGUSON: I'm picking the Cowboys to win it all. No, just kidding.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: I'm going to go with the Broncos. My boy Manning is going to take care of all this. He's going to get a second ring so he cannot have to deal with the trash talking from his younger brother, Eli Manning, who has got two rings from my Old Miss. I'm going all the way with the Broncos.
SAVIDGE: Mark?
HILL: I'm going to go with my heart. I'm going to go with the dream Hollywood scenario, the Eagles against the Chiefs, Andy Reid, our former coach, against Chuck Kelly, the current coach. Eagles beat the Chiefs by one point in the Super Bowl. That's what I'm talking about.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: All right.
HILL: How's that?
MARTIN: It's nice to see good sportsmanship between you.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Can I take this stupid -- can I take this stupid hat off, by the way?
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: No, no, no. To the end of the segment, brother. No. End of the segment, man.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: All right. Well, you know what? This is the end of the segment.
(LAUGHTER)
So let me say goodbye to the both of you. Congratulations to --
HILL: E-A-G-L-E-S! Eagles!
MARTIN: And with that, the next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.
