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Angry, Emotional Interview of Dennis Rodman; White House Reaction to Rodman Outburst; Senate Votes to Extend Unemployment Benefits; Christie Signs New Jersey's "Dream Act"; Majority of Americans Support Legalizing Pot

Aired January 07, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, an angry and emotional interview with Dennis Rodman. Why has he decided to play a basketball game with other former NBA stars in North Korea on Kim Jong-Un's 31st birthday? You're going to hear how he reacted to some seriously important questions from our own Chris Cuomo.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The former NBA star, Dennis Rodman, angrily defending his trip to North Korea with a team of ex NBA players. They're there to play an exhibition game tomorrow organized by Dennis Rodman. It's actually to celebrate the 31st birthday of the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Un, a man who recently ordered the execution of his own uncle. He's also holding an American in prison in North Korea, and he's accused of continuing the horrific human rights abuses of his father and grandfather. Yet, Dennis Rodman calls Kim Jong-Un, a quote, "friend."

Here's part of the really strong interview that Chris Cuomo had today with Dennis Rodman and other former NBA players. They were all in Pyongyang.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NBA BASKETBALL PLAYER: We are using basketball as a bridge for cultural exchange. And that's all about communication. We're not -- again, we're not here to deal with the politics. The date of the game is the date of the game.

CHRIS CUOMO, HOST, CNN NEW DAY: Dennis, let me end on this. You do have a relationship with this man. You have said it many times. We have seen it demonstrated.

RODMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: For whatever reason. Are you going to take an opportunity, if you get it, to speak up for the family of Kenneth Bay, and to say, let us know why this man is being held? That this is wrong, that he is sick. If you can help them, will you take the opportunity?

RODMAN: Whoa, whoa, watch this. The one thing about politics. Kenneth Bay did one thing. If you understand.

I got it, guy.

If you understand what Kenneth Bay did --

CUOMO: Yeah?

RODMAN: Do you understand what he did in this country?

CUOMO: What did he do? You tell me. You tell me, what did he do?

RODMAN: No, no, no. You tell me! You tell me! Why is he held captive in this country?

CUOMO: They haven't released any charges.

RODMAN: Why?

CUOMO: They haven't released any reason.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen.

(CROSSTALK)

RODMAN: No, let me do this. I would love to speak on this.

CUOMO: Go ahead.

RODMAN: You know? You've got -- you've got 10 guys here, 10 guys here. They have left their families, left their damn families to help this country in a sport venture. Got 10 guys, all these guys here. Does anyone understand that?

CUOMO: We do. And we appreciate that.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: And we wish them well with cultural exchange.

RODMAN: No, no, I'm just saying! No, I don't give a -- (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don't give a rat's ass what the hell you think. I'm saying to you! Look at these guys. Look at them!

CUOMO: Yeah, but, Dennis, don't put it on them. Don't use them as an excuse for the behavior that you're putting on yourself.

(CROSSTALK): They came here!

CUOMO: You basically were saying that Dennis did something wrong. We don't know what the charges are.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Don't use these guys as a shield for you, Dennis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, listen. Listen.

(CROSSTALK) RODMAN: No! Ain't no chill. I got it. Let me do this.

Really? Really? I'm going to tell you one thing. People around the world, around the world, I'm going to do one thing. Your guy behind the mic right now -- we are the guys here doing one thing. We are going back to America to take the abuse. Do you have to take the abuse that we're going to take? Do you, sir? Let me know? Are you going to take that abuse we're going to get? Guess what I do? One day -- one day, this door is going to open, because these 10 guys here, all of us, Christie, Ben, Dennis, Charles, all these -- everybody here. We could just open the door just a little bit for people to come here and do one thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: What an interview. Chris Cuomo's interview with Dennis Rodman and some of the other NBA players in North Korea right now.

So what's the White House reaction to Rodman's North Korean trip? Here's what the White House press secretary, Jay Carney, said just a few moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, sports diplomacy can be valuable. And it's something that we pursue in many places around the world, including through direct support. But this is a private trip. And our focus, when it comes to North Korea, is on sharpening the choice that that regime faces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He was also asked about Chris Cuomo's interview with Dennis Rodman. Carney said, I heard about it, I did not see it." Some of the comments Rodman made. He then went on to say, "I'm not going to dignify that outburst with a response."

But does Dennis Rodman have a point that basketball diplomacy could help open up North Korea to the rest of the world?

Let's discuss that with the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Bill Richardson.

Governor, thanks very much for coming in.

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS & FORMER GOVERNOR: Thank you very much, Wolf.

BLITZER: I asked the question to you. You've been there on several occasions. I was there with you exactly three years ago. We spent six days in Pyongyang. Do you believe that American basketball players going to North Korea like this delegation could actually open up that country to the rest of the world?

RICHARDSON: Well, I've been disappointed in the turn of events of this basketball trip. First, that it's being used propaganda-wise by the regime on the birthday of the Kim Jong-Un, the new leader. Secondly, I thought Dennis Rodman crossed a line this morning by implying that Kenneth Bay might be guilty, by suggesting that there was a crime. There is no crime. Kenneth Bay is an American detainee that's been there a year in bad health, who deserves to come home.

I think Dennis drank a little bit too much of the Kool-Aid from the North Koreans. So while basketball diplomacy, out of the box diplomacy, which I've practiced, you covered that trip, U.N. Envoys, philanthropic groups, the Vatican, those are often useful. But I think this one has become a sideshow. While I think the surrounding players to Dennis Rodman -- you know, they're concerned with what's happening -- I'm not faulting them. But I think Dennis has crossed a line by saying something about Kenneth Bay that is wrong and inappropriate. Because this is an American detainee who has not been charged, very spurious allegations against him, who is sick, who deserves to come home. Dennis should be advocating for his release, along with the other NBA players.

BLITZER: Well, maybe he is. I don't know if he is, privately, behind the scenes, in his personal conversations with North Korean officials, despite what he said to Chris Cuomo just a few moments ago. We heard that clip. If he were, and let's hope he does, manage to bring Kenneth Bay out with him on this trip, would you change your attitude about this whole diplomatic effort on his part?

RICHARDSON: I would give him credit for bringing Kenneth Bay back. I think no American diplomat, no out-of-the-blocks entity has been able to help Kenneth Bay, myself included, when we were there a year ago. So I would give him credit for that. But his remarks to Chris Cuomo, basically saying, do you know what he did? In other words, implying that he did something wrong, which is the North Korean line, is wrong and inappropriate. So if he's advocating privately, that's good. But we don't know if he's doing that. I mean, he seems to be extolling Kim Jong-Un, saying it's his dear friend. He's playing basketball the day of his birthday. He's now talking about Kenneth Bay, while he's saying this is basketball diplomacy. He's getting into politics in the wrong way by suggesting that Kenneth Bay might be guilty. So he's crossed the line.

I think the time has come for the NBA players to play their game, you know, bring back some goodwill from the common people in North Korea, but basically, be very restrained about pursuing this kind of diplomacy right now with Dennis Rodman at the lead.

BLITZER: Governor Richardson, thanks very much for joining us.

RICHARDSON: All right.

BLITZER: By the way, the NBA commissioner, David Stern, will join us live during the 6:00 p.m. eastern hour in "The Situation Room." We'll talk about Dennis Rodman, NBA players in North Korea right now. David Stern will join us live.

Moving ahead on unemployment, the Senate voted to at least start the debate on benefit extensions, but will they really get anywhere as far as the bill is concerned? Or will this become a major campaign point for the midterm elections? Gloria Borger standing by, live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The debate on extending unemployment benefits for 1.3 million Americans moving forward in the Senate. Democrats got six Republicans on board to clear this first critically important procedural hurdle.

Our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, joining us.

Even if they get it through the Senate, it's got to pass the Republican majority in the House of Representatives. The labor secretary, Thomas Perez, we just heard, he didn't completely rule out the notion and Chuck Schumer didn't completely rule out the notion that maybe they would compromise and pay for the $5 or of $6 billion it costs to extend these benefits.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST; I think what you were hearing was a signal that there may be some room for compromise there, that the Democrats might say, OK, if we can all get together and figure out how to pay for this, let's not let that stand in the way. So I think that's clearly a possibility. And then if John Boehner had some kind of a way to pay for it, then he would conceivably raise it on the floor of the House.

BLITZER: Sail through the Senate and sail through the House. All those people with the president and 1.3 million others and their families would get those benefits right away.

BORGER: Because if the Democrats are saying that this is that important -- and they didn't do it before the break, they're doing it now. If they're saying this is that important, then perhaps they're open to some kind of compromise and both sides could do it and get it off the table so they could move on to the rest of the agenda.

BLITZER: And you would think they could find $5 or $6 billion --

BORGER: One would think. Right.

BLITZER: -- out of these trillions the United States spends out there. It's not, you know, a huge, in the scale of things, a huge amount of money.

BORGER: It isn't. And don't forget, the president has a lot of other things he wants to get done. And Republicans have some things they want to get done, as well. So if this hangs out there and becomes a huge partisan debate, and I think the fact that it passed the Senate, even by the narrowest of margins and it did get that vote in the Senate, it shows you that perhaps they all kind of want to move on to get off this.

BLITZER: Just to remind you and our viewers, I pointed this out many times, the U.S. has been spending about $2 billion a week maintaining all those thousands of U.S. troops in Afghanistan. The U.S. is hoping to pull them out by the end of this year. Maybe if you accelerate the withdrawal by two or three weeks, you pay for the unemployment benefits.

BORGER: There are lots of ways.

BLITZER: There you get the $5 or $6 billion pretty quickly. It's a complicated, bureaucratic situation, but accelerate the withdrawal a little bit, you get the money.

BORGER: And then we can move on to other fights.

BLITZER: And you move on to other subjects, I suspect.

If you ask the American people, would you want to keep U.S. troops for another two or three weeks extra in Afghanistan or bring them home and pay for unemployment benefits, I think unemployment benefits would get a lot of support.

BORGER: I agree with you.

BLITZER: Just an idea.

Thanks, Gloria.

With a stroke of the pen, the New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, signs the state's "Dream Act" immigration bill. Will today's event have an impact on 2016 and his possible run for the White House?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This morning, in New Jersey, on a stage filled with school kids, the Governor Chris Christie signed the state's "Dream Act" that allows children of undocumented immigrants to pay in-state tuition at public colleges and universities. He first signed it last month in private. This was all for the public to see, and maybe for his political future as well, if he decides to run for president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R), GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: We know that when we bring people together in the state, when we work together despite some of our differences, that we also set an example of optimism for everyone of the 8.9 million people who live here, that unlike what happens in Washington, that government can actually work for you, that things can actually get done, that agreements can be reached and that commitments can be kept.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our political reporter, Peter Hamby, joining us from Union City, New Jersey.

You watched the governor explain this, sign it into law. Politically speaking, Peter, how will this play if -- it's still a big if -- if he decides to run for president, to try to run for that Republican presidential nomination?

PETER HAMBY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, yeah, in a general election context, it's undoubtedly a good thing. This is a good talker for him as the party tries to expand its appeal. In the Republican primary, it's much more problematic. There's a very vocal slice in the Republican Party, especially in Iowa and South Carolina, who are hostile to not just comprehensive immigration reform, but any immigration reform. So this could be a problem for Christie.

But there's another way to look at this. If you look at polling before the Iowa caucuses in 2011, a lot of Republican voters said they'd be willing to support someone who they didn't agree with on immigration reform. And "The New York Times" actually measured which of the 2012 candidates got the best support on the issue of immigration, Wolf, and the two candidates that came out on top in Iowa were Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich, who had the most moderate sort of platforms in the Republican primary. So Christie can sort of stake out that space in the Republican party, let everyone else sort of move to the right, and he can go after the moderate voters and those Republicans who do want to appeal to the Hispanic voters in a general election and win.

BLITZER: I know there's a lot of Hispanic voters where you are right now. This is clearly part of the bigger Republican effort to reach out and increase Republican support among Hispanics out there, isn't that right?

HAMBY: Yeah. Christie has been cultivating a brand as a Republican with broad national appeal. He tried to do it with his re-election bid here in New Jersey last year. He actually won a majority of his panics in the state, beating his opponent, Barbara Bono, here. A broad coalition of voters. Here in Union City, this city is over 80 percent Hispanic. And Christie won the city, even though President Obama carried it in 2012. So this event today was full of symbolism. He was surrounded by Hispanics, so called dreamers, students, and he really leaned in. At one point, one of the speakers introducing him called on Washington to pass immigration reform and Christie applauded throughout that statement.

So again, if Christie can get through a Republican primary, he'll have a pretty good resume to talk about to Hispanic voters in a general election -- Wolf?

BLITZER: The key question, if -- if he can get through a Republican primary, Republican caucuses out there. Then he might have a much better chance of winning a general election than winning the Republican nomination.

Thanks very much, Peter, for that.

HAMBY: Thanks.

BLITZER: Meanwhile, a major shift in attitudes towards marijuana use in the United States. I'm going to tell you what a majority of Americans now have to say about legalizing pot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Major shift in attitude is happening in this country right now towards the legalization of marijuana. A new CNN/ORC poll says a majority of Americans support legalizing pot.

Tom Foreman is joining us for the breakdown of these numbers.

Let's start with numbers right now. And there has been a pretty dramatic shift over the years.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really has been an extraordinary shift, if you think about it, Wolf. What has changed in these past few years has been absolutely remarkable. Back in the 1970s, when this was considered the big issue in the country and people were very concerned with, people overwhelming thought the idea of legalizing it was a terrible idea. That was changed, so much that in our latest poll here, the number jumps to 55 percent of people saying they think that this should be legalized now. That is a remarkable jump compared to where we were just a few years ago, back when it was being identified by Richard Nixon as being a problem in this country.

BLITZER: What does the poll also show us about shifting moral values, attitudes on this issue?

FOREMAN: That's one of the keys here, Wolf. Part of what's happened here is the population has grown somewhat older. Many people, who had more experience with marijuana as younger people and accepted it more did not see the evils in it, have grown older now. They're weighing in and making a difference in all of this. Those numbers have also changed dramatically. If you look at the older citizens, people over 65, they still think of this as really a bad thing. Younger people, not nearly so much. They're inclined to say maybe this is something that can work out and be OK.

Beyond that, there's the question of how it ranks overall morally. These days, if you look at the poll we have right now, people think that pornography, infidelity, cheating on your taxes are all considerably worse than what they're seeing right now. They believe that this business over the issue of marijuana is simply overheated, that this is not such a big issue anymore. Again, it breaks down a lot by age. It breaks down to a degree by geography. The South is more against it than others. It all also breaks down by political affiliation. Republicans more against it than others.

But it is quite remarkable to look at this change in such a short period of time that there's been this gigantic shift. You see it in the states, approving medical marijuana and flat-out marijuana use.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Recreational marijuana, you see it in Washington State, in Colorado. As it becomes legal there and the federal government really not intervening, I think that has an impact on public attitudes across the country.

FOREMAN: And every indication is that it doesn't stop at Colorado and Washington, that this is a momentum thing. This could keep going -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Tom Foreman with the latest numbers. Interesting shift. Thanks very, very much.

And that's it for me this hour. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Please join us then.

NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin.