Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Girl Arrested Attempting To Stop SeaWorld Float; Fed Minutes: Policymakers Say Benefits Of Fed's Stimulus Outweigh The Costs; Top Christie Aides Tied To Bridge Closure; New Book Takes On Fox News Chief

Aired January 08, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: OK, before I move along, we are showing you this live picture of a podium and a lot of microphones. We are about to be taking this news conference live for you. You will hear from the New Jersey Assembly deputy speaker. Why? Because of the scandal that has erupted. That has been rocking New Jersey Governor Chris Christie's administration and inner circle.

The issue, some of his top, top aides are accused of causing awful traffic issues on this one particular bridge for specifically political reasons. This is the accusation that they wanted to frustrate this neighboring mayor because this mayor was supposed to throw his support behind Chris Christie in his re-election campaign and he didn't do so.

So they accused of throwing a wrench in some traffic issues. So we are going to stand by for this. This is a huge deal for this part of the country so stay tuned for that.

Meantime, let's talk "Blackfish" here and even more backlash against SeaWorld and its alleged cruelty to killer whales. This is now turning into a headache for Southwest Airlines. After the release of the CNN film "Blackfish," Southwest has now come under fire over its ties to SeaWorld and today a petition signed by some 27,000 people was delivered to the Dallas-based carrier.

And one of the most vocal activists against SeaWorld right now is this young woman, 12 years of age. She is Rose McCoy. She is a well-known animal rights activist with PETA. She was arrested at a Los Angeles parade while protesting against SeaWorld's float.

She did the same thing at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade where she actually hopped the barricade as well. So joining me now, Rose McCoy, and her mom, Emily. So welcome to both of you. Thanks for joining me.

Let's see. Emily, I will get to you in a minute on your activism and your daughter's activism and this arrest, but first to you, Rose. I know a lot of kids your age love going to SeaWorld. Tell me how you feel about the place?

ROSE MCCOY, ARRESTED AT ANTI-SEAWORLD PROTEST: I think it's a very awful industry because it makes its profit off of the suffering of other living beings and I don't think any such industry deserves a dime of any family's money.

BALDWIN: Twelve years young. Did you watch "Blackfish," Rose?

MCCOY: I did.

BALDWIN: You did. So in watching that and seeing these pictures of you protesting, can you me what it was like getting arrested?

MCCOY: It's worth getting arrested because that will bring media attention. When media attention is brought to a certain issue, more people learn about the subject and it can really push a cause very, very far. Any small confinement or boredom that I would have experienced or any fellow protester would experience in jail pales in comparison to the boredom and small captivity areas of whales such as Tilikum and baby, Shamu.

BALDWIN: Emily, I'm listening to your daughter and I am reminding myself that I am speaking to a 12-year-old. You sit next to her, how proud of you. You are an activist yourself?

EMILY MCCOY, ARRESTED AT ANTI-SEAWORLD PROTEST: I'm very proud of her. She is both compassionate and intelligent and she wants to help animals.

BALDWIN: Here's the "but," and this is the other thing I was thinking and preparing for this. It's one thing as a parent to instill values in your child and quite another to have a 12-year-old jump barricades and be arrested. How do you respond to those who say this is not good parenting?

EMILY MCCOY: I would remind them if they are really upset about what goes on with offspring and their mothers, what's going on with SeaWorld and really that SeaWorld's whales are separated, the young from the mothers and forced to perform in small tanks. While any discomfort or situation that Rose has been involved in is relatively brief, what these whales are dealing with, with long-term confinement and cruelty is their life.

BALDWIN: So we are crystal clear, you have no problem with your daughter being arrested at 12?

EMILY MCCOY: For a good cause, yes. She is a straight A student. She is a good kid. She is never in any other trouble. I see her standing up for animal rights as being a positive thing. That I can't complain about.

BALDWIN: Rose, my final question to you, you are 12 years old. What do you want to be when you grow up?

ROSE MCCOY: I'm not sure yet. Anything that would help animals is fine with me. I'm interested in a vast number of things in science and law. It doesn't matter to me.

BALDWIN: Well, good luck to you, Rose and Emily. Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

EMILY MCCOY: Thank you.

ROSE MCCOY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And now the first reduction in Federal Reserve's economic stimulus happens this month, but the stock market is already fixated on what the fed will do with the bond purchases and the lower interest rate policy. As you take a look at the numbers, Dow down just a little bit, 71 points here as we are about an hour and a half away from the trading day close.

Investors are combing through what the fed has just released moments ago, the minutes from its December meetings. So let's go to it with our chief business correspondent, Christine Romans. Christine, what are the clues as we read these minutes to the Fed's future moves.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And I tell you there is nothing more exciting than reading the Federal Reserve's minutes from --

BALDWIN: You don't love that?

ROMANS: I do love it. That's why I'm here telling you about the taper and how the fed is going to take its foot off the accelerator. You know, what the fed decided what they want to proceed cautiously with slowing that stimulus to the economy and they know that the hiring is picking up. They feel as though the economy and recovery is proceeding so they can start to take that slowly and cautiously and that's the key here.

They are not going to go fast as Ben Bernanke, the fed chief, himself has said it's going to be methodical and it's going to start and be gradual. One of the real keys, one of the words they said in all of that economic data, all that economic parsing was, you know, further reductions would be undertaken in measured steps.

That's I think what people really wanted to hear. They are going to go slow and careful. They will take the risks of taper are much greater than the benefits of the taper. They will be careful. That's what we learned from the fed today.

BALDWIN: And after we talked in December 1 this initially came out and this is a good sign for the economy, yes?

ROMANS: It means that the economy is learning how to stand on its own two feet. Just today we got another a little hint of the jobs market is strengthening for the long-term unemployed. The same picture for people recently unemployed things are getting better.

One economist today saying you could see a 6.8 percent unemployment rate on Friday. That would be the best in years if it happens when we get the big government report. So the jobs picture is getting better. That gives the fed some breathing space.

BALDWIN: OK, since I have you and you stayed up for us after co- hosting the show at 5:00 this morning. Let me ask you about the settlement between JPMorgan and the federal government and its whole Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme that hurt so many people. JPMorgan didn't blow whistle on Madoff and now the bank is getting off with the fine but no criminal charges. What's going on in Washington?

ROMANS: You know, it's interesting because $1.7 billion for 20 years of not noticing that one of your clients was looting and pillaging his customers, that's a problem. The company admitting that it should have done more to see these red flags from different parts of company and it should have done more to prevent -- you know, to alert the government to stop Madoff and didn't, $1.7 billion is what that cost up.

But it wasn't a criminal charge. It wasn't a guilty criminal charge or a guilty -- there is no guilty here on a criminal level. It's difficult to do that. Here's why. What if you revoke the charter of the bank, the biggest bank in the country, that provides all this oxygen to the American economy and hundreds of thousands of people.

Is that too big to fail has it now become too big to jail? That's what a lot of people are asking. Excellent piece on cnn.com, I would really encourage people to look at it if you want to know more about the banks and JPMorgan in particular. I will say one thing, you know, a lot of people said it's a slap on the wrist to JPMorgan.

JPMorgan has had $20 billion in fines and settlements over the past year. In 2012, its whole profit is about $21 billion. Basically shareholders are pretty furious because this bank -- that's unheard of to have that much paid out. Many people would say it's still not enough and they would like to see someone in handcuffs. But you know, $20 billion is not insignificant.

BALDWIN: Christine Romans, thank you very much. We will see you tomorrow morning with John Berman at 5:00 on "EARLY START."

Coming up here, it is the head of one of the most popular and controversial networks on TV, this man here, but a new book does not paint a very nice portrait of the chief of Fox News. Hear what Roger Ails apparently said about Bill O'Reilly and the presidential election.

Plus as we have been showing you, live pictures out of New Jersey, any moment now, this news conference will get under way on the traffic scandal involving Governor Chris Christie's inner circle. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, live to New Jersey we go. Let's take it and I'll tell you that we've been listening -- you will be hearing from the New Jersey assembly deputy speaker to open this up by saying this is a sad day for New Jersey. He is talking about this scandal, traffic scandal that is directly affecting Chris Christie's inner circle, his administration. Q and A underway, take a listen.

JOHN WISNIEWSKI (D), DEPUTY SPEAKER, NEW JERSEY ASSEMBLY: Thank you for coming down on such short notice. What we have seen today is a sad day for New Jersey. The documents that have been published are both shocking and outrageous. They show government its worst. Among other things, they call into serious question the honesty of this governor and his staff. As a result of what has been revealed today, this governor has a lot of explaining to do.

So many questions remain unanswered. That's why I subpoenaed him to testify and that's why I hope he will come and testify tomorrow at noon in this building. So far what we know is that he has been pointed to by everybody, the governor, the executive director as the fall guy. When we look at the documents we have seen today, it is clear that that's not the entire story.

His testimony can help fill in the blanks and answer a lot of questions. I would like to thank Speaker Sheila Oliver for her support and supporting the committee and having subpoena authority and I would like to thank Speaker-Elect Vincent Prieto who said today that he fully expects the investigation to continue.

But as I've said time and time again as the investigation has unwound, that we still have much more to learn. The committee will continue to work to get these answers. With that I would be happy to take your questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From what you have seen in these correspondents, what does it look like to you was the role of Governor Christie in all of this?

WISNIEWSKI: I have not seen e-mails that have the governor's name on it, but the e-mail has the deputy chief of staff on it. This is an administration that keeps a tight control over what happens and comes out of the front office. We would like to get explanations as to who else in the governor's office knew about this and what the role is. Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).

WISNIEWSKI: Some of you may know this and some of you may not. Mr. Wildstein's attorney filed in order to cause today to quash the subpoena. That is returnable tomorrow morning at 9:00 or 9:15. They are making the argument that you will read the pleadings and the arguments are the arguments and you don't believe there is a basis to give relief.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The governor said he asked to see this and do we now know that's untrue?

BALDWIN: OK, we are going to pull away from this, but want to do much more on what you have heard the latest developments from this news conference in Trent, New Jersey. What does this mean for his inner circle? Chris Christie, of course, a huge, huge name, keep throwing it out as possible candidate, Republican nominee for president come 2016.

At the top of the hour, we will talk to Jake Tapper and Gloria Borger about that. Also just something else to think about, we've heard from the "New Jersey Newark Star Ledger" is basically taking the stance that if Chris Christie had known about this traffic political thing ahead of time, he should not be running for office be it governor or president. Quick break, back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WISNIEWSKI: Bill O'Reilly is a book salesman with a TV show. That from O'Reilly's boss according to a new book on Roger Ailes. He is the head of Fox News taking a start up cable network to the ratings powerhouse. It is today. The "New York Times" got him on an unauthorized biography by writer Gabe Sherman.

And according to "Times," the highlight here, Ales told his inner circles prior to the 2012 election, quote, "I want to elect the next president." It goes on to say a now infamous video criticizing President Obama that looked like a campaign ad was a brain child of Roger Ailes.

Senior media correspondent and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter joins me live. And Brian Stelter, I am guessing this book is just giving more fodder for critics and more reason to say the Republican Party is run out of Fox News.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I think it's going to harden people's opinions of Fox News. People who are Fox News loyalists, people who believe Roger Ailes has balanced the rest of -- they would say the liberal media will dismiss book, say it's dribble. People that think Fox News is a political machine will probably have those points of view cemented because Gabe Sherman's book has hundreds of pages of examples of how Roger Ailes thinks still like a Republican consultant the way he was for decades.

In that video, he mentions a good example. That's 4-minute attack ad that Fox News broadcast in the middle of their morning back in May 2012. It was really eye opening. People were sort of amazed by it when it was broadcast. I was one of the reporters who e-mailed Fox that day and said, what's this video all about?

And Roger Ailes makes this video and the response back then was that Roger Ales was not aware of that video. So the fact that Gabe Sherman's writing in this book that it was actually Ailes brain child, well, that's one example --

BALDWIN: Yes, there was a "USA Today" columnist who wrote that Ailes is untouchable. That no one can beat him. Ailes recently gave an interview to the "Hollywood Reporter" and it's pretty obvious he loves the competition. But Brian, what do you think his succession plan? Is it Fox still a powerhouse of Ailes, is no longer there running the thing?

STELTER: It's worth pointing out. We are talking about a competitor here. There is no love lost between these networks. Roger Ailes is fascinating because he is one of a kind, because he is so passionate, because he is brilliant and yet so bombastic as the title of this book says.

Roger Ailes has said that he has a succession plan in mind, but it's a secret. He hasn't even told his bosses. A lot of people don't think that there would a Fox News the way there is today without Roger Ailes and that's what Gabe Sherman's book concludes. That, you know, that Fox News won't be what it is without him.

BALDWIN: Fox says it didn't fact checked the book. This is a quote directly from them. "These charges are false. While we have not read the book, the only reality here is that Gabe was not provided any direct access to Roger Ailes and the book was never fact check with Fox News. But let me end with this, just context for all of us, if Sherman interviewed more than 600 people, Brian, you're talking about these oodles of stories and anecdotes in the book. And then you have the "New York Times" speaking the highlights, you would expect to actually juice your nuggets.

STELTER: You know, I've read a lot of those reactions today from people saying where is the bombshell? Where is the surprise? That's why I think the book more than anything else is going to cement people's opinions, but we haven't read it yet. Nobody else has a copy. My former colleagues in the "New York Times" are very good about getting early copies of this book.

Sometimes they go to obscure bookstores and ask the sellers to open up the books in the back. Maybe there other nuggets, but we haven't seen him yet and I'm curious about the rest. Gabriel did fact check and he spent 2,000 and he spent more than 2,000 hours get betting the man script and declined every request to discuss the reporting with me. This is a he said she said. The fact is fox news was never going to cooperate with the book. Gabriel had to go around the edges talking to colleagues and executives and employees and all those people instead.

BALDWIN: You can't wait to get your hands on this thing. We will talk after you do. Brian, thank you very much.

Coming up next, a California pastor wanted to see what made nonbelievers tick. So as an experiment, the pastor who is Christian decided to live for the next 12 months as an atheist. Within days, he lot of not just one, but two teaching jobs at Christian schools. What prompted him to make such a drastic decision? He joins me live. We will ask him after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: What is your New Year's resolution, those of you who believe in resolutions, quit smoking? Give up fast food? How about giving up religion? That's what my next guest is doing which is tough ask considering he spent much of his life as a pastor at a Seventh Day Adventist Church.

For the next 12 months, Ryan Bell said he will live as if there is no god. In one week, the fallout for Bell has been devastating. He lost of two jobs teaching at Christian schools near his home in Los Angeles. Ryan Bell joins me now. Ryan, welcome.

RYAN BELL, FORMER PASTOR TRYING ATHEIERS: Thank you. Good to be here.

BALDWIN: First question out of the gate is simply how the heck do you up and become Atheist after being a pastor for a year? BELL: I think people that are on a spiritual journey talk about their faith and using the language of journey. I don't think I up and became an atheist. I'm on a spiritual journey. When I was a pastor I pursued my spiritual journey in public. I just am in this space where I'm not a pastor anymore and was given freedom and space to think about questions that I had for a long time about the baseball and religion and faith. I just decided to spend a year really exploring the other side of the coin.

BALDWIN: I totally understand. I know a lot of people who talk about of course being on a journey, the spiritual, religious. I can hear Christians listening and believers of some deity thinking this guy may not have been a true believer. How do you turn away from Christ just like that?

BELL: Yes. People have made those kinds of statements. Again, I think religion and faith are things that are full of nuance and people's personal experience. My experience is not like that of others. The tendency is to think of religion and faith as binary categories. You are all of one thing or all of another. Completely a Christian and sold on the ideas about being a Christian or you are an Atheist and abandoned all faith. I think the reality that I discovered in the last days for sure is the vast majority of people are between those two poles. I am with them in that little space.

BALDWIN: I have so many more questions, but let's get into your background with the church. You were asked to resign as pastor last March. Tell me why.

BELL: I think over the years, there have been growing differences between myself and the denomination. Social issues are a desire to stand with the gay and lesbian population in our community and members of the church that were gay and lesbian and transgendered members. We came to disagreements that were irreconcilable and I had outgrown my place in the church.

BALDWIN: What is the end goal here?

BELL: For the year?

BALDWIN: For the year, for your journey.

BELL: For me to just discover for myself kind of where I'm going next on the journey. This was not intended to be an international journey done in public.

BALDWIN: You started blogging, not realizing this would be picked up.

BELL: Of course, I mean, my friend said I would like to read along with you and a handful of other friends would like to do too. I that maybe 100 or 200 people would look at it and we would have a conversation.

BALDWIN: Instead you are on CNN talking about your personal, spiritual, and religious journey. We will see what happens. Ryan Bell, thank you for sharing something that is so personal. Coming up next, much more on the e-mail scandal rocking Chris Christie and his administration, back in 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)