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Chris Christie Under Fire; Former Defense Secretary Criticizes President Obama

Aired January 08, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We continue on, hour two, with the governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie. He may be facing the political crisis of his career thus far. Amid a new scandal, one newspaper is questioning Christie's leadership.

Here's what we know. Let me back up. These stunning e-mails and texts appear to link some of his aides, some of Chris Christie's aides to this growing scandal possibly involving this political vendetta.

The messages suggest this, that his aides and a former appointee knew about and perhaps triggered a controversial lane closure, really closures on the George Washington Bridge that caused days of traffic snarls for a man who was supposed to support the governor during his reelection bid, but did not do so.

It is unclear whether or not Chris Christie had any prior knowledge of his aide's communications. Moments ago, we did hear from a news conference in Trenton, New Jersey, from this Democrat slamming Christie's administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN WISNIEWSKI (D), NEW JERSEY STATE SENATOR: It's a sad day for New Jersey. The documents that are published are both shocking and outrageous. They show government at its worst.

Among other things, they call into serious question the honesty of this governor and his staff. As a result of what has been revealed today, this governor has a lot of explaining to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Today's editorial From "The Newark Star-Ledger" is this.

Let me quote part of it: "Christie bears responsibility either way. If it turns out he did know, he is obviously lying and unfit for office, let alone a 2016 presidential run."

Chief Washington correspondent Jake Tapper, host of "THE LEAD," joining me.

And, Jake, let me back up just for viewers who are not into the inner machinations story. Just what exactly were the e-mails that these text messages apparently are revealing?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, remember that the general charge is that there were a few days of traffic really being held up on the George Washington Bridge, really hurting the town of Fort Lee, New Jersey.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: In September, before the election.

The charge from Democrats which until today didn't seem to have any evidence, but the charge from Democrats was that this was done as a vendetta because Christie has been seeking the endorsement of all these Democrats for his reelection and the Democratic mayor of Fort Lee didn't and so this was retribution. There was no evidence to that charge until today.

What we have now are e-mails and text messages suggesting that politics did play a role. Let me walk you through a few. In August, Bridget Anne Kelly, who is the deputy chief of staff, one of the deputy chiefs of staff for Governor Christie, e-mails David Wildstein, the political appointee of Christie to the Port Authority, saying: "Time for some traffic members in Fort Lee."

That's a few weeks before the incident. Then, of course, on September 9, this starts happening. Three lanes are closed. The mayor of Fort Lee calls in and Bridget Anne Kelly asked David Wildstein, "Did he call him back?" Did somebody from the governor's office call him back? Wildstein says: "Radio silence. His name comes right after Mayor Fulop."

Mayor Fulop is another Democratic mayor, this one of Jersey City, who had refused to endorse Christie, and he has said there were recriminations because of that refusal of endorsement.

This might be the worst one, and we don't actually know who said it. This came on September 10, the second day of the traffic tie-up. Mayor Sokolich, the mayor of Fort Lee, sends a text message to Baroni, who is another political appointee at the Port Authority, saying: "The bigger problem is getting kids to school. Help, please. It's maddening."

Wildstein forwards that message to some unknown person, who says: "Is it wrong that I'm smiling? I feel badly about the kids, I guess."

And then Wildstein writes -- this is really surprising -- "Wildstein says, they are the children of Buono voters." Buono, Barbara Buono, was the Democrat facing Christie in that reelection that obviously Christie won very handily.

We have somebody, we don't know who, in these documents, saying that they are smiling that these kids are in trouble because the mayor is complaining about getting kids to school and not being able to. The person said I am smiling. Is it wrong that I'm smiling? Wildstein said no and then says there's the children of Democratic voters. Pretty stunning stuff. BALDWIN: Yes, two questions then off of that. One, from the different names and from the top aides in within Chris Christie's administration, what has happened to them?

And, B., the one name directly not involved at least in the quotes we just pulled is that of Chris Christie himself. He said over and over he has zero to do with the lane closures. Is that the truth?

TAPPER: Well, OK, first of all, Bill Baroni and David Wildstein, the two political appointees to the Port Authority who are named and part of these damning e-mails resigned in December.

One of them -- both of them resigned in December as a part of the fallout from this controversy or scandal. Now, the deputy chief of staff, this is the first time today that we have evidence of her playing a role, Bridget Anne Kelly, with her e-mails to David Wildstein.

In terms of Governor Christie, this is a very, very perilous moment for him. He needs to respond and he needs to explain what if anything he knew and we don't have the answers to that. Governor Christie's office is not returning calls.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Canceled the news conference today.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Canceled the news conference today.

I imagine what they are doing is trying to find out exactly all the context of all of these e-mails if they didn't already know it and trying to figure out if the e-mails and text messages are as they have been presented to those of us in the media who obtained them and what context there is and if there is more to the story than that.

But obviously Governor Christie has been belittling this controversy and saying that he takes the word of his former advisers that this was a traffic study. It does not appear to have been a traffic study based on testimony before the state legislature and the e-mails which certainly seem to suggest very strongly that there was a political motive, a vendetta if you will for the closure of the lanes.

I want to just read one other, if I can, Brooke.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go for it. Go for it.

TAPPER: At one point in September, this is when the media starts picking up on the story, David Wildstein, the political appointee who has since resigned, forwards a "Wall Street Journal" story to Bill Stepien.

Bill Stepien was the campaign manager for Christie. Stepien writes back "It's fine," about the article. "The mayor is an idiot. Win some, lose some," the mayor referring to the mayor of Fort Lee. And then David Wildstein writes back to Bill Stepien, the Christie campaign manager, "I had empty boxes ready to take to work today just in case," I guess a reference to maybe being fired or resigning. "It will be a tough November for this little Serbian."

That's what he refers to the mayor of Fort Lee, this little Serbian, and a tough November in political circles obviously means this is going to be a bad election for this individual.

That is why the assemblyman you just heard from wants to subpoena and force testimony from David Wildstein to find out what exactly is going on. Was he doing this on his own and was he encouraged to do this by anybody close to Christie or Christie himself? We don't have the answers to all this information. To reiterate, there is nothing tying Christie directly to any of this. But now we have one of the deputy chiefs of staff very seriously impugned in the e-mails and texts.

BALDWIN: This is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Jake Tapper, I know you will be all over at the top of the hour on THE LEAD.

Let me bring in another voice here, John Avlon, CNN political commentator.

John, I am thinking about people who are watching right now who do not live in and around the New Jersey area who are thinking why do I care about traffic some closures and some lane closures on a bridge and really -- an issue and some potential vendetta between the mayor and the governor of New Jersey?

But this is a big deal, because we're not just talking about anyone. This is Chris Christie. This is potentially I don't know if I'm going out on a limb saying he is the most popular Republican, one of the most popular Republicans in the country right now. This could have implications come 2016.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely.

Look, when you are the potential national front-runner for a presidential race, local politics become national politics. At key here is Christie's credibility. He has a reputation for being a straight shooter, well-deserved. He won as a Republican in New Jersey overwhelming margins by reaching out across the aisle, frankly.

This sort of an attitude and his denies of having any knowledge or anything to do with this really does make this a crucible moment in that potential national ascendancy of Chris Christie. The presence of these e-mails really are damning. It is to some degree a smoking gun and it shows some politicization certainly of this decision.

How high it goes, that is still to be -- that information is still to come. But now the question is what did Christie know and when did he know it? But it's important to emphasize at this point we don't have anything, any evidence to show that Chris Christie knew about this.

Sometimes you see this in political operations in the height of a campaign. Operatives run off and do things they think their principal might approve of, but can be very bad down the line, as this may well turn out to be.

BALDWIN: We will watch it very closely. John Avlon, thank you so, so much for joining me today.

Coming up next, just moments ago, the White House responding to President Obama's former defense secretary who released a book that blasts his former boss. Robert Gates, did he reveal secrets too soon? We will have both sides of that debate coming up next.

You are watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, big story today out of White House, the White House now reacting this afternoon to attacks against the president and Vice President Biden from a former top aide, Robert Gates, the Republican who served as the president's first defense secretary.

On Biden, take a look at this. Gates writes as follows: "He has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades."

Here now is White House spokesperson Jay Carney defending Biden just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As a senator and a vice president, Joe Biden has been one of the leading statesmen of his time and he has been an excellent counselor and adviser to the president for the past five years.

He's played a key role in every major national security and foreign policy debate and policy discussion in this administration, in this White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That is again Jay Carney talking just a little while ago defending Joe Biden.

As far as the president goes, Gates writes that during a meeting, this was back in 2011, a meeting about the war in Afghanistan, he reached this conclusion. I'm quoting him: "The president doesn't trust his commander, can't stand Afghan President Karzai, doesn't believe in his own strategy and doesn't believe the war to be his.'

Let's talk about this. From Newport Beach, California, we have Bob Baer, former CIA operative and CNN national security analyst, and from New York, Buck Sexton, national security editor for Glenn Beck's TheBlaze.com.

Buck, let me begin with you. The question really is Bob Gates, we have a picture we can show you. Bob Gates he is front right. We have all seen this picture. This is the picture that they released. This is during the raid in Pakistan that killed Osama bin Laden. Gates as defense secretary first resisted going in there to get bin Laden. Despite the many, many hats that he wore in many years of service, government service, et cetera, is he credible when he writes about the Obama administration?

BUCK SEXTON, THEBLAZE.COM: Brooke, he's very credible.

And let me just state that, as you mentioned before, I am actually a former CIA officer as well, served in Iraq and Afghanistan. All this really hits home for me in a way that I wanted to let your audience know about.

He is very credible. He's the elder statesman of the senior reaches of the administration. This is a broadside. This is absolutely devastating stuff for an Obama administration that already looks incredibly feckless, almost like a bunch of dilettantes on foreign policy and geostrategic issues around the globe, never mind just in the Middle East and on counterterrorism issues.

The Obama administration seems to be out of their depth, but even worse than that, they are making craven political calculations at a time when the U.S. is still very much at war in Afghanistan, still very much at war with al Qaeda. This just shows that really what they care about in the White House are the polls and that's it. Nothing else.

BALDWIN: Feckless.

We heard Jay Carney defending the administration as best as he could. Bob Baer, Gates' biggest complaint about the president appears that he just -- he doesn't trust the military. From your experience in the CIA, is being skeptical toward the generals a bad idea?

BOB BAER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No.

You have to look. It was, first of all, the White House that got us into two wars, Afghanistan and Iraq. They didn't go so well. It's clear that the White House at some point was going to turn on the military and say, look, we gave you a lot of troops and it's not working. We have to change strategy.

This is what happened with the Obama administration. There is always a conflict in the intelligence community. The first chief in Iraq was pulled out because he sent in an assessment back to Washington that there is going to be an insurrection and that it's going to really get bad. And the military said, no, things are fine. And they eventually pulled the guy out and he quit the CIA.

These intelligence wars inside the community go on all the time and we are seeing it rose to the White House.

BALDWIN: Do you agree with Buck that the book is as damaging as he is portraying against the administration? BAER: I think it's damaging, but I don't like the idea of Cabinet ministers when a sitting president is in the White House going after and revealing things. And certainly Bob Gates isn't immune from criticism too.

It almost looks like a political act at this point, whether the president is right or wrong. I think it's unfortunate. He should have waited until Obama was out of the White House.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: I'm sad actually that he didn't come out with it sooner. I think the American people should have and would have been better off knowing about this.

I think we have seen now based upon the free lessons in geopolitics that Vladimir Putin has been giving our president, the complete ineptitude on display with regard to Syria, this administration doesn't know what they are doing. It is true, however, that Joe Biden is very useful, because he has been so consistently wrong on foreign policy so many times that you can juxtapose yourself against him.

You take the other side of the issue, chances are you are going to be correct. But the administration again was never serious about the war in Afghanistan. They doubled down and they put 30,000 more troops in harm's way, specifically so Obama could look like he knew what he was talking about when he said Iraq was the bad war and Afghanistan was the good war. It showed a lack of strategic understanding and I think it also showed a lack of character in the commander in chief.

BALDWIN: Bob, can you respond to that?

BAER: Look, I think both of these wars were not winnable. The military was sent in to win wars we could not win. Yes, we could have stayed in Iraq for 50 years. We could stay in Afghanistan for 100. But I think the Russians proved this when they went in. It's not a winnable war.

I never liked either war. As it turned out, they didn't work out so well. We just have to face the facts. Are we going to spend our national -- go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: I would agree with Bob, by the way, to degree that if the administration was honest about it, if they took Bob's point of view on this that Afghanistan was not a place where we would have a flowering democracy and a state that could defend itself, fine, that's all to the good.

Instead, they wasted a year with the phony Afghanistan review as soon as Obama came into office. Nothing came out of that was not already known and then put more troops in harm's way and said we are leaving at the same time. This was purely political.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: Bob's position is one of principle. Obama's is something else.

BALDWIN: Perspective here as well. This is Bob Gates, former defense secretary, trying to sell a book. Do you agree?

(CROSSTALK)

BAER: He is trying to sell a book.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Bob.

BAER: Well, I think he is trying to sell a book.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: I think anybody who has an important message wants their book to be sold and therefore read, but I think you try to undermine the integrity of a career public servant, a real public servant, not in the sort of self-aggrandizing Clinton mantle, but somebody who actually has been in the trenches and done this from the ground up.

We should probably listen to him. I think it's a good idea.

BALDWIN: Buck Sexton and Bob Baer, thank you both very much.

Jay Carney again just on balance saying the president and vice president greatly appreciate the service of Bob Gates.

Coming up next, a CNN investigation into college athletics reveals some startling results. Do you know that almost seven out of 10 football and basketball players at one prominent university reading below an eighth great level? Are the colleges putting athletics above academics to approve their bottom lines? We will discuss that.

Plus, it is the basketball game that is making international headlines. Dennis Rodman and his American teammates played against the North Koreans today in Pyongyang. Rodman with a special song before the game started. We will play it for you. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A CNN investigation reveals a startling number of college athletes cannot read above grade school level.

CNN took a good long look at records at several public universities across the country and found many football and basketball players can read somewhere between a fourth and eighth great level.

Our investigation revealed a staggering gap between college athletes and their peers at the same institution. The analysis even concluded my own alma mater, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, which was once the focus of a scandal of student athletes who were allegedly enrolled in classes that required little or no work.

We talked with one academic counselor there who pored over eight years worth of test scores for nearly 200 basketball and football players. And here's what she told us. She found that up to 25 percent of players in these bigger, these revenue-generating sports programs don't have the skills to take classes at a community college.

Look at these numbers with them -- 8 percent, 8, were reading below a fourth grade level. And 60 percent were reading somewhere between fourth and eighth grade reading levels. And even though reforms have been put in place, that counselor at UNC, Mary Willingham, remains skeptical that Carolina is doing right by its players.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY WILLINGHAM, UNC: We say that we made 120 changes which you can make all the changes you want, but if you are still not meeting students where they are at as an educator and bringing them along so that they can have success in the classroom, then the changes are all for nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Experts say it's tough for a busy college athlete to improve his or her reading ability in just four years. Talk to other critics, and they accuse the schools of putting athlete departments' needs ahead of the students.

Let's talk about this with CNN political commentator and nationally syndicated radio host Ben Ferguson, and Jean Boyd, he's a senior associate athletic director at Arizona State University.

Welcome to both of you.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks for having us.

JEAN BOYD, ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Ben, let's begin with you, because you were mighty fiery on Twitter. You're calling these college programs, your word was corrupt. Tell me what you were saying.

FERGUSON: Well, it's corrupt because you have billions of dollars that are coming in here.

These students are coming in and every single person, including the chancellor and the dean and the athletic director and those in charge of compliance, they all make more money if the university wins more games. They make more money if they get bigger contracts and they make more money if they move to a bigger conference.

If you get caught, you don't go to jail. If you get caught, does it really matter if you already made millions of dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars? Look at all coaches that have been in college. The whole entire program got destroyed and where do they end up? In the NBA or on the sidelines of the NFL. They made their millions. This idea that people are shocked that grown adults take advantage of children, these college kids, are hilarious.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: These athletes who are shortchanged. That's what it is. They're shortchanged. They are not educated if they're reading at these low levels and they are in college, and those who do not make it to the pros, I really feel for them , but that's another matter.

Jean, to you. You are in the thick of things at Arizona State. I'm just curious, what are you seeing among the big-time athletes as far as reading levels go, and what about the guys who you all are recruiting in high school?

BOYD: Sure, Brooke.

I will first say that as a former student athlete myself in a revenue sport, I was a football student athlete at Arizona State University, I reflect on that experience with great memories and really owe a lot to the individuals that I worked with during that time period and where that experience brought me.

I am an individual from an inner city background, lower socioeconomics. A lot of those risk factors that we would be talking about, I possessed, and had the opportunity to go to community college and then Arizona State and have a wonderful experience that helped me along the way every step to where I am today to a senior level administrator at the institution.

With that being stated, we do receive or have individuals that enter into institutions across the country who are deficient in certain skill levels as it relates to reading and writing, et cetera. It's our responsibility on every level, community college and university and anywhere in between, to provide support that can close that gap of performance.

Obviously, different institutions have different admissions standards and individuals should be admitted based on what those standards are at their institutions.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Ben. Jump in.

FERGUSON: The problem is this. The problem is, the reality is, if you are good enough, all that was just mentioned is thrown out the window.

Look, I was a college athlete on a college scholarship. I was in a non-big sport. I played tennis. We actually had to go to class. We actually had to study. We didn't get special treatment because we were not a star football or basketball player.

But I think it's virtually impossible today for any football team to compete in the top 10 on a regular basis without playing by the same set of rules. It is a billion dollar industry. Just look at the coaches who are getting six and seven figures in endorsement deals because they are winning.

Everything is set up to take advantage of students. And how many of them actually go pro? One percent of NCAA go pro maybe in the big sports, if even it's 1 percent. You have guys that graduate and they have a piece of paper. And you have the administrators, the A.D.s, the chancellors who all got paid and they got new buildings being built and they got season tickets being sold.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Which then helps the other students as well academically when you have the money coming into the school. I'm just saying. But I hear you loud and clear, Ben Ferguson. I do.

FERGUSON: These kids are being taken advantage of.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Jean, final word.

BOYD: I think that they are in alignment with the investments being made in stadiums and in contracts and all.

They're investments being made in academics as well. The institutions that we work with are responsible for providing an opportunity for these young men and women to develop themselves to be champions in life.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: I have got to disagree. I have got to disagree, because making someone a champion in life means they can actually do the work at a college level.

BOYD: Absolutely. Absolutely.

FERGUSON: When you take advantage of students and they are reading at a fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade level, that is not making them champions for life, no matter how you put it. It's not. You can say it, but it's not true.

(CROSSTALK)

BOYD: And I do not believe -- I do not believe that that's what's happening, by and large. You can find situations and scenarios...

BALDWIN: Oh, and just like that, poof, we lost of both of them.