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Feds Looking at NY Bridge Matter; Christie Critics Say They See a Nasty Politics Pattern.

Aired January 09, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And it may well be that having looked into this the U.S. Attorney can say this is just a political matter, not something for the criminal justice system.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: That's the U.S. attorney in New Jersey. And as we all well know the George Washington Bridge spans two states, it's an interstate, I-95. And clearly there are issues because there's a New Jersey office in Manhattan as well. But to this date, Cyrus Vance, who is new on the job and probably wouldn't mind getting his teeth into something of this political and legal action.

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He's the district attorney of New York County. This will be investigated on the Jersey side.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: No, I just want to bring something up, and this is why I brought it up.

CALLAN: They have joint jurisdiction.

BLITZER: The office where the directive was given was the port authority office based in New York. That's why I bring up the Manhattan D.A.

CALLAN: He may try to jump in. I think if he's smart he'll just stay out of it. And on the Jersey side, I got to tell you, the prosecutor in Jersey was appointed by Chris Christie. And New Jersey governors have extraordinary political power and capacity for revenge, by the way, which is why, if he's running for president, this is the first of many things that are going to get scrutinized.

BLITZER: And we haven't even begun to examine the civil exposure in all of this if in fact those emergency technicians who responded they were having trouble actually getting health care to those emergency situations due to traffic, if that actually bears out. So that's a whole other area.

And, Wolf, that's another hour and 48 minute conversation, which I can't have now because the governor had an hour and 48 minute conversation already.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, he did. Pretty long -- nearly a two- hour news conference.

Let me play a little clip, guys. Don't go away. I want to pick it up afterwards. Play a clip about what Governor Christie had to say about his own knowledge of all of these events.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R), GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: I had no knowledge or involvement in this issue, in its planning or its execution. And I am stunned by the abject stupidity that was shown here regardless of what the facts ultimately uncover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Jeffrey and Paul, let me just get your quick thought on that. When you hear a flat statement like that from the governor, from the legal perspective -- Jeffrey, first to you -- explain what he is trying to do right now and to clear himself from any wrongdoing, potentially.

TOOBIN: Well, I think it's political, legal, moral, logical, he's just saying I didn't know that my staff had anything to do with changing this traffic pattern, period. So I don't think there's any mystery hidden agenda here. He is certainly just laying down a marker and saying I had nothing to do with it. I think from a political perspective that's a good thing to do. There were no weasel words in his statement. He wasn't, I don't think, trying to parse his language very carefully. There was nothing about it depends what the meaning of is is. However, the facts have to bear him out. And we'll see what the e-mails show. We'll see what the texts show. We'll see what the testimony is. Perhaps David Wildstein who took the fifth now will get immunity at some point in which case he'll have to testify. Perhaps Miss Kelly who was obviously at the center of this story, the fired deputy chief of staff, she will certainly have a version of the facts here. Those stories will be very important to hear. And that will -- only then will we know whether Christie's very categorical statements stands out.

BLITZER: Paul, you know more about the legal part of this than I do, but let's talk a little bit about Bridget Anne Kelly. When the governor says, you know, "I woke up that morning -- yesterday morning after exercise, I got the iPad, I saw the story with all these e-mails and then I fired" -- his deputy chief of staff Bridget Anne Kelly. He never called her, he never asked for explanation, he never wanted to hear her side of the story. Would that be because his own lawyers were telling him, don't do that? That could be witness tampering if you will?

CALLAN: No, I don't think it was that. I think it's a classic blunt Chris Christie decisive action. He knew that she lied to him. And he made a decision I'm going to fire her immediately. What's more decisive than that? That's been his trademark move, decisiveness. I think that's Chris Christie in action and not something that was thought out or planned as a result of legal problems.

BLITZER: Jeffrey, you agree? TOOBIN: I'm actually not sure. I think it was a prudent legal move on Christie's part not to have a conversation of any kind with principle figures in this scandal. He knew once he saw those e-mails that they were going to be investigations here. And I think, yes, it was sort of a classic Chris Christie move to fire someone without a conversation, but it was also prudent legally not to have any conversation with him. You can be sure he will not be talking to David Wildstein going forward. So I think there may have been mixed motives at work there.

BLITZER: And the same with Bill Stepien and his former campaign manager.

Paul, one thing before I let you go. Let's go back four weeks when he heard about these initial allegations. He called in his senior staff and he said in one hour I'm going to go out and make a statement to the news media, if any of you had any involvement in closing these lanes for three days along the -- on the George Washington Bridge between New Jersey and New York, speak up now because I'm about to make a statement. No one spoke out, including Bridget Anne Kelly. So the question is, would she not speak out to him because she was scared for her own future, didn't want to acknowledge that she played some sort of alleged role here? Or was she trying to protect the governor, it would be better he shouldn't know about what we did?

Paul, go ahead.

CALLAN: Well, she's an experienced political figure and would know that his statement would be scrutinized carefully especially since he's a potential presidential candidate. My bet is she was afraid how it would affect herself, she would be fired. And she's probably saying frankly how can closing down three lanes of traffic on an approach to a bridge be this enormous scandal? It will blow over. And I think she obviously miscalculated and it's cost her her job.

TOOBIN: Wolf, can I just make one more point about Chris Christie's conversations with his colleagues or his subordinates? He said he is going to continue his own investigation. He's going to talk to everyone on his staff and try to figure out what happened here. I think there are going to be lawyers, and there certainly may be outside lawyers, that think you know that's not such a good idea. First of all, Chris Christie shouldn't be in charge of investigating Chris Christie. And they're going to be involved with other investigators and to have Christie talk to them about the underlying events may generate more questions than answers. So the idea of Christie personally continuing this investigation as he said he would, I'm not so sure that will actually happen. Or if it does, that it's such a good idea.

BLITZER: With one of the players, David Wildstein, pleading the Fifth. And the U.S. attorney now saying the U.S. federal government is looking into this.

Jeffrey, who would have main responsibility if, in fact, there is a criminal investigation, local, state or federal authorities? TOOBIN: Well, this question, Wolf, is what prosecutors spend a great deal of their lives negotiating about. In many, many crimes there is overlapping jurisdiction. And there is often competition over these cases. Ultimately the federal government always has the juice, the power, to take over an investigation. And here clearly, I think, Paul Fishman, who is the U.S. attorney appointed by Barack Obama, as presidents always appoint U.S. attorneys, he will be in charge of this investigation. Yes, it is true there are possible state investigations, but particularly since the U.S. attorney has announced that he is beginning this investigation, the state and local officials will certainly back off and let the feds go through with it.

BLITZER: Paul, you agree with that?

CALLAN: Yes, I agree with that. And I also think very, very strongly that the most likely scenario here is that the cover-up, and if there's been a cover-up or in the future if there's a cover-up, is the most likely area for criminal liability in a case like this. Because you can explain the underlying facts in a way that probably doesn't constitute criminal conduct relatively easily, but if you lie to an FBI agent, the U.S. attorney or others in a cover-up attempt, now you're going to have real criminal liability. And we see this all the time in political scandals.

BLITZER: The statement coming in from the U.S. attorney's office district of New Jersey was the port authority office of inspector general has referred the matter to us and our office is reviewing the matter to determine whether a federal law was implicated.

All right, guys, standby.

Dana Bash is our chief congressional correspondent. She's getting reaction up on Capitol Hill.

Clearly, the federal government is involved looking into this scandal right now, Dana. What are you hearing? What's been the reaction out there?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's been very interesting reaction. This is must-see TV here on Capitol Hill. Obviously Chris Christie is a very formidable, popular political figure even when it just comes to observing him on both sides of the aisle.

But let's first start with the senior Senator from New Jersey, Bob Menendez. We caught up with him in the hallway. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ, (R), NEW JERSEY: There are obviously appropriate steps, people who conducted a political vendetta should lose their jobs. And at the same time, you know, I believe that the investigations that are pursuing -- being pursued by the transportation committee, the reviews being pursued by the U.S. Senate commerce committee should continue and we can get the totality of the picture of what went on here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, just by way of background, Bob Menendez is a long-time politician in New Jersey, has known and worked around Chris Christie for some time and has had political battles against him even as they have had to work together. Very notable I think, Wolf, that he was very noncommittal but saying investigations should couldn't.

Then I think what's also interesting has been the Republican reaction. So much discussion has been whether or not before the press conference whether or not this would put an end to any prospects for the White House for Chris Christie. I talked to several Republican Senators who all said this was a home run.

I'll give you one example from Johnny Isaacson who sat in his office and watched it, what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You watched most of the press conference. What'd you think?

SEN. JOHNNY ISAACSON, (R), GEORGIA: I thought Chris Christie did what any leader ought to do, first of all he assessed the situation, found out where the problem was, took decisive action and took responsibility for the 65,000 people that work for him. So I thought he handled it the way you would hope an administrative leader would handle it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And then I asked what if -- you know, are you confident that what he said is accurate and true? And he sort of looked at me and said, well, if it isn't, he's dead. That's the end. Which I think probably goes without saying. But just the fact that there's been so much interest in this I think is very telling even from Senators who are just observing because they are politicians and they are sort of involved in the game as well. Just to watch how he handled this, but again, among his Republican colleagues many of whom he has battled with here to say the least they thought this was a -- in fact in the words of one Republican aide here that he should teach a seminar in P.R. and how to handle crisis management. It was that perfect pitch.

BLITZER: Yeah. A lot of people are saying he did the right thing, he came out, he apologized, he was humble, he acknowledged there were major mistakes, that he was responsible. But the questions certainly will continue.

Dana, standby.

We're getting reaction from a lot of folks, but the mayor of Fort Lee, New Jersey, and the traffic patterns in Fort Lee and surrounding areas leading up to the George Washington Bridge in New Jersey going over to New York would most directly impacted by this decision to snarl traffic for three days.

The mayor, Mark Sokolich, has just reacted to what we heard from the governor. Let me play a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK SOKOLICH, (D), MAYOR OF FORT LEE, NEW JERSEY: We are only asking and as polite and as respectful a way, please, please, we've been through a lot, we're not saying no, we welcome the apology. As a matter of fact, I think I may have even asked for one. It's just that to do it now in light of what's transpired over the last 24 hours, it's just going to cause more chaos in Fort Lee. We don't need it at this point. And I got to tell you I think you ought to wait for this investigation to conclude, otherwise we're going to be spending a lot of gas coming up and down the turnpike.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The mayor basically suggesting to the governor, stay away from Fort Lee for now.

By the way, the mayor will be my guest, I'll speak with him live 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

John King is there in Trenton, New Jersey. Was at the news conference watching all that's going on.

The political fallout is going to be enormous. It's not everyday you hear a Democratic mayor in a major town in New Jersey, in Fort Lee, tell the governor who was just re-elected in a landslide, you know what, stay away from my town today. This is not a good idea for you to come here.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It will be interesting, Wolf, to watch this play out. Because making peace with the mayor, making peace with the people of Fort Lee is clearly one of Governor Christie's top priorities. He said he was told during the news conference about the mayor's reaction. Reporters in there with their iPads and Blackberries and the like getting that information. The governor was asked about that. He said, well, look, if he doesn't want to meet with me, that's fine. But he did say as soon as that news conference was over that he was going to call the mayor and he was going to make his case, that he was going to come to Fort Lee anyway, today, the governor insisted, and he would like to see the mayor. We'll see if the governor can persuade the mayor to change his mind. But the governor said he was going anyway. He said it was very important to make an apology in person.

Wolf, you had a great interview with the mayor last night. And it's clear as we watch and ask all the questions about the many investigations as the governor tried to answer questions about his involvement today and now about his apologies and his holding people accountable and firing people. It's also clear there are some political back and forth here, and the Democratic mayor and Republican governor, the governor was pretty clear said he doesn't know him and wouldn't know him if he walked in the room today. Said he never heard his name during the campaign, so he doesn't understand why anyone on his staff would think they need to do this, have some kind of political vendetta. But clearly even as the governor made a very public apology repeatedly today, there's still tension and perhaps political theater between a Republican governor and Democratic mayor.

BLITZER: It was surprising to me, John, I don't know about to you be Fort Lee is a major city in New Jersey there right on the -- at the George Washington Bridge. And the governor says he wouldn't have been able to pick out the mayor, didn't know the mayor, pick him out of a lineup. That was a little surprising to me that he was insisting that he had no -- may have met him over the years once or twice but really didn't know him. And certainly was not anxious to win his endorsement for his re-election. Just one of the sidebars in all of this.

All right, standby, John.

Brian Stelter is joining us, our senior media correspondent, the host of "Reliable Sources."

Brian, this is quite a media spectacle we're now observing as well.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You can say that again. And it's been very interesting to watch reaction to conservative media outlets. Before today, this story was very muted. There was scant coverage of this. On FOX News, for example, compared to CNN and MSNBC. Today, we saw dramatic change in tone. Almost as soon as the press conference started, what we started hearing from conservatives on twitter and on television and all over the web was that Chris Christie was doing what President Obama doesn't do, which is take responsibility when there are scandals. That seems to be the dominant talking point now after days essentially of ignoring this story pretty much entirely.

BLITZER: Rush Limbaugh has been pretty critical of Chris Christie right now, so the question is this, how much will this hurt Christie assuming he can salvage his political career and maybe run for president of the United States?

STELTER: Well, Chris Christie reminds us of this giant split that exists in the Republican Party and in the conservative movement. I think we're reminded of that again today as people take sides as commentators and Republican heavyweights take sides. We saw Glenn Beck post earlier on Twitter a kind of mean message, a fake movie poster for this, he called it fact and furious instead of "Fast and Furious." So you can see commentators taking sides here and in some cases taking shots at Chris Christie. But I think what we're seeing from conservative commentators, like Eric Ericson, who's a high- profile one, are taking a stand and saying Chris Christie is doing what Barack Obama is not. And that gives them a talking point where they can stand with Chris Christie as opposed to ignore the story entirely or stand against him. And I think we'll see more of that in the days to come.

BLITZER: Interesting development. Chris Christie getting flak not just from the more liberal left but also from the more conservative right, especially a lot of those conservatives not happy with him when he welcomed Barack Obama, the president of the United States, to New Jersey when Superstorm Sandy hit only days before the presidential election with Mitt Romney.

Brian, thanks very much.

We're going to continue our special coverage here on CNN. The enormous political fallout only just beginning. Lots more developments. We'll take a quick break. Much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: I am who I am, but I am not a bully. What I will tell you is the folks who have worked with me over a long period of time would, I believe, tell you I'm tough, but I have shown over the last years, in the tone we have set here, that I'm willing to compromise and I'm willing to work with others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The governor, Chris Christie, speaking during a nearly two- hour news conference just a little while ago. Meanwhile, the accusations are closing that the New Jersey lane closures from the George Washington Bridge were done for political revenge, to get back at a mayor who would not endorse Governor Chris Christie's reelection. He said he was not involved and he was blindsided.

It's not the first time that the "nasty politics" and "Chris Christie" have been used in the same sentence.

Brian Todd has been looking into this.

Some of his critics say they see a pattern.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They do. Wolf, a lot of them say in the immediate aftermath, he did a lot to help himself, but it plays into this pattern of brash bullying behavior that some people interpret on the part of Chris Christie, that he is known to reward his friends and punish enemies. He said he is not a bully. Some people think he crosses that line, sometimes without meaning to.

Here a couple of greatest hits from the not too distant past regarding Chris Christie where it has been interpreted that he has been a bully.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On Monday, are you going to be -- (INAUDIBLE).

CHRISTIE: Did I stay on topic? Are you stupid? On topic. Next question.

Good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all very much and I'm sorry for the idiot over there.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You don't send your children to public schools. You send them to private schools. I was wondering why you think it's fair to cut funding to public schools. CHRISTIE: What's her name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's her name? Guys, real quick. The governor's talking.

What is it?

Gale. Talk to Gale.

CHRISTIE: Hey Gale, first off, it's none of your business. I don't ask you with where you send your kids to school. Don't bother me about where I send mine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: Plenty of things like that with Chris Christie, Wolf. He gets into town hall meetings and the members of the media. Some people say -- I just talked to an analyst who said, it's when he sometimes is interpreted as beating up on people who are smaller and might be in a position of having to defer to him, that's when he gets into the bullying behavior, maybe without meaning to. They say he helped himself with the news conference.

It's amazing. We went to the street to sample opinions and in New Jersey, they are sampling opinions. What do you think of him now? Amazing. A lot of people still like him. They like the bluntness and the brashness and the straight talk, is what they say.

BLITZER: And Americans are very forgiving. Somebody makes a mistake --

TODD: Absolutely.

BLITZER: -- and apologizes, folks say, OK, every body makes mistakes. We are all human and we make mistakes.

TODD: Right.

BLITZER: It was interesting in a recent interview, on Election Day, we spoke to our own Jake Tapper. He was asked about the president and the roll out of Obamacare, the mistakes made. The president should say you know what, we made a mistake and apologize, I'd like to move on and try to fix it, instead of lawyering up. Everybody hates lawyers, supposedly.

TODD: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: That was his advice to the president. He seemed to be accepting that advice today.

BLITZER: He was. If it comes out he might have known something, even a little bit about this while it was going on or the immediate aftermath, he has big problems that none of this are going to solve.

BLITZER: Listen to another clip, Brian. Here's the governor of New Jersey at that news conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: I am heartbroken that someone who I permitted to be in that circle of trust for the last five years betrayed my trust. I would never have come out here four or five weeks ago and made a joke about these lane closures if I had ever had an inkling that anyone on my staff would have been so stupid but to be involved, and then so deceitful as to not to disclose the information of their involvement to me when directly asked by their superior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He was referring to the so stupid person as his deputy chief of staff, he fired yesterday morning shortly after he learned about all of this.

TODD: I tell you what I was thinking. He was so emphatic and confident that it was her fault, she acted stupidly. I kept thinking does Bridget Kelly have something to say about this? What if she has something to say in the next days and weeks ahead? She might have information, if she comes out with it, can harm him. She now, after that conference, might have the motivation to do it, if she's got something.

BLITZER: We already saw David Wildstein, one of the officials at the port authority, take the Fifth, plead the Fifth this morning. Not answering questions based on the advice of his attorney. We will see if she starts talking and whether the former campaign manager that he disassociated himself from, whether he starts talking. There will be a lot to go on.

TODD: Sure.

BLITZER: Brian, thanks very much. See you later in "The Situation Room."

That's it for me this hour. Thanks for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer, in Washington. I will be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern after a short break.

Right after a short break, Brooke Baldwin will pick up our coverage.

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