Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Official: Toxic Tap Water May Last Days; Arbitrator Reduced A- Rod Suspension to 162 Games; Neiman Marcus: We May Have Been Hacked; Documents Do Not Show Christie Had Any Role in Bridge Scandal; Are Rich People, Politicians Out of Touch?; Spying Cars for Government Taxes; Teen with Schizophrenia Killed by Police; Life and Death Debate Over Pregnant Woman on Life Support; Controversy Over Cussing Toddler in Video
Aired January 11, 2014 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Here in the NEWSROOM, I'm Kyra Phillips. We have a lot going on today. They are maybe known as the do-nothing Congress but they sure are getting paid. A new report finds that Congress has the most millionaires ever.
A funeral today for a teen shot and killed by police, his family still demanding closure and authorities still investigating why lethal force was even used.
And your car may be spying on you. Yes, your car and soon it may help the government draft your tax bill.
We begin tonight with more questions than answers for residents in West Virginia as officials now say that it could be days before it will be safe to use the tap water. It's a State of Emergency for some 300,000 people in nine counties right now. Seventy five hundred gallons of a toxic chemical leaked out of a storage tank and into the ground water creating desperate and dangerous situations. I mean, we're talking about no bathing, brushing your teeth, cooking, the simple things that you need our water for. But there's a little good news today. Sixteen tractor trailers from the Department of Homeland Security have delivered fresh drinking water.
CNN's Erin McPike is live in Washington. So, Erin, are officials giving any kind of timeline for the cleanup?
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, there is no end date yet, but Jeff McIntyre, who is the president of West Virginia American Water, did hold a press conference just a few hours ago and he explained why it's going to take a little while. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF MCINTYRE, PRESIDENT, WEST VIRGINIA AMERICAN WATER: I would expect that we are talking days. Our teams are out. We have employees that have worked this system that are extremely knowledgeable of the system are out collecting samples and looking at flushing activities at this time. But we are talking days.
(END VIDEO CLIP) MCPIKE: So, as they continue to test, they have to produce safe results repeatedly before they will decide that the water is safe to use, Kyra. So that's why we're talking days. Now the good news is that we have seen the chemical levels decline some, but still, it is not yet safe to use.
PHILLIPS: Well, freedom industries, you know, the company that's responsible for this leak, it has been issued a cease operations order from the State Department of Environmental Protection. But do we know yet if criminal charges could be brought against this company?
MCPIKE: That is very possible. Booth Goodwin who is the U.S. attorney in West Virginia said last night that he's launching an investigation and just for negligence there may be criminal charges brought. Now on top of that, Erin Brockovich, who you many remember she is a famous public advocate, she was on CNN last night and she says, she's sending her team into West Virginia as well to investigate on her terms. As you know, she's famous for some of those class action lawsuits -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Oh, yes. And Erin, you know, I mentioned that, and we were talking about this earlier, I mean, this is -- these folks need water for something to do as simple as brushing their teeth. I mean, what are these 300,000 folks doing without the simple necessary of water every day?
MCPIKE: Well, Kyra, FEMA is sending in gallons and gallons of water for those kinds of uses in addition to trucks full of bottles of water to drink. But this is not just a health concern. It's also an economic concern because so many businesses in the area have had to close too. So the whole area of Charleston and the surrounding areas are impacted not just for economic concerns, but also for health concerns and just for their daily lives. So it really is a problem there right now -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Yes. We'll keep following it. That's for sure. Erin, thanks a lot.
Alex Rodriguez got a little good news, a little, well, a lot of bad news shall we say today. The New York Yankee slugger suspension was shortened, but not by much. Still a full season. A punishment for his alleged involvement in a performance enhancing drug scandals behind all of this and it could be enough to actually finish his career in baseball. Our Jason Carroll has the latest.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this decision is very disappointing for Alex Rodriguez and his team, but it was not entirely unexpected. Alex Rodriguez releasing a statement a little earlier today saying, "The number of games sadly comes as no surprise as the deck has been stacked against me since from day one. I have been clear I that did not use performance enhancing substances as alleged to the notice of disappoint or violate the basic agreement or the joint. Drug agreement in any matter and in order to prove it I will take this fight to federal court. I will continue to work hard to get back on the field and help the Yankees achieve the ultimate goal of winning another championship." I am told that Alex Rodriguez would have actually accepted a 50 or possibly even a 65-game suspension. There would not have been an admission of guilt, but they would have taken their lams and moved on, to so to speak, but that did not happen. Major League Baseball, of course, wanted the entire 211-game suspension to stand. That did not happen. They released a statement as well saying while we believe the original 211 suspension was appropriate, we respect the decision rendered by the panel and will focus on our continuing efforts on eliminating performance enhancing substances from our game. As you can imagine, a number of sports fans are weighing in. About the 162- game suspension. Here's what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I'm from Boston and I thought the penalty was too strong. So, I'm good with the 162.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: How do you hand out a 162 game, ban to one person and not give anything to all these other people that are doing the same thing? Well, yes, I guess it is, if you talking about just A- Rod, yes, I think it's too harsh.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I think it's ridiculous. I think if they gave him anything, it should be 50 games at the max.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Whole career should be out. Not enough.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I think he deserves it. I don't think there should be doping in baseball. It's America's past time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: During the entire arbitration process, Alex Rodriguez was allowed to play ball. That may not be the case this time. Representative from Major League Baseball who I spoke to said, this arbitrator's decision is final so he will not be able to play baseball even while he takes his fight to next level. So, do not expect him to show up for spring training but Alex Rodriguez says, just one minute, that may not be the case. He's going to ask his Attorney Joe Tacopina to ask a federal judge for an injunction to allow him to keep playing while he keeps fighting.
Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.
PHILLIPS: Well, credit card users, Department Stores, shoppers, there's a lot of you. And two major retailers this weekend are trying to figure out how many customers unwittingly gave their personal information to hackers over the holidays. First, Target. Now Neiman Marcus. It's a major credit cart security breach that Neiman Marcus officials say, they learned about before Christmas. They say they have been working to shore up their computer security and they're not exactly sure how many of their customers need to be worried.
Jennifer Mayerle following this for us today. So, what happened and what kind of information might be compromised here? JENNIFER MAYERLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We know credit card information was compromised. The unknowns here are how many credit card numbers and what the timeframe was from when that information was stolen. You know, the Target investigation is a little bit farther along so we have learned more information there. Originally it was 40 million that had the credit card numbers, debit card numbers, pin numbers taken. Now there's an additional 70 million that they are talking about. Those numbers could cross over a little bit, but have had more information taken. What are we talking about?
Personal information, names, mailing addresses, phone numbers and e- mail addresses. And I suspect in the days to come, we'll learn more about what was taken through Neiman Marcus, through that security breach. But here's what we do know. We know that in mid-December, the company was contacted about a possible security breach. It took all the way from January 1st to determine that that breach did in fact happen and that customers' information was taken. From there they worked with the secret service, a forensic team and they are working to shore up all of those glitches that led to that security breach.
They plan to contact customers that may have had fraudulent charges on their cards. But in the meantime, they issued this statement, they say, "We have begun to contain the intrusion and have taken significant steps to further enhance information security." And of course, that's important in this case.
PHILLIPS: Bottom-line, every single day, be looking at your account statement and then take action if something doesn't seem right.
MAYERLE: That's the biggest thing. Take a look at your account, make sure that if something doesn't feel right, make sure make a call, find the -- legitimate.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Jennifer. It's a day of mourning in Israel. Ariel Sharon was in his second term as Prime Minister when a stroke sent him into a coma, that was in 2006. Almost eight years ago to the day. Sharon died in a Tel Aviv area hospital earlier today. The government announced that Sharon's body will lie in state in Jerusalem beginning tomorrow. And his funeral is planned for Monday. Ariel Sharon, the 11th prime minister of Israel, dead at the age of 85.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, the scandal emerging from Governor Chris Christie's office is getting bigger. We just learned that New Jersey's assembly is expected to hold a special session in five days to widen the scope of bridge scandal investigation. Also 2,000 pages of new documents show a pattern of Christie aids stone walling inquiries about the G.W. Bridge lane closures. Well, the documents do not show any connection between Christie and the apparently plot to snarl traffic in Fort Lee, New Jersey.
Correspondent Margaret Conley tracking the story from New York for us. So, Margaret, you've actually looked through all these documents, can you tell us what stands out at this point? MARGARET CONLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, an investigation has revealed about 2,000 documents including scathing e-mails. Two people have resigned and one was fired in what appears to be a cover-up by members of Governor Chris Christie's inner circle. His closest allies made it seem like closing down the lanes to the George Washington Bush back in September was part of a traffic study for four days. There was gridlock, major inconvenience for commuters and delays for emergency responders. But now it seems the stunt was allegedly part of a political plot to retaliate against the Democratic mayor of Fort Lee for not backing Christie's re-election.
In one of the newly released e-mail exchanges, the executive director of the Port Authority Patrick Foye wrote, "I will get to the bottom of this abusive decision which violated everything this agency stands for." Bill Baroni, a Port Authority official who was appointed by Christie replied, "On way to office to discuss. Can be no public discourse." Foye's reply, Bill, that's precisely the problem, there has been no public discourse. Now that exchange right there is the root of the issue here. Was there a cover-up by Christie's people? And get this Kyra, as this scandal unfolds, other Democratic mayors, they are speaking out saying they have also been targets of Christie's team.
PHILLIPS: Oh, wow! It's going to be interesting to see how big this could possibly get. And also the New Jersey Assembly is expected to hold a special session on Thursday. Right? What do we expect there?
CONLEY: Yes. A call for a vote to renew subpoena power. That's the plan. I spoke with New Jersey Assemblyman John Wisniewski earlier today. He's the democrat that's leading this investigating committee and he wants all of the documents, all of the e-mails surrounding this issue to be made available. He also said there could be criminal charges if public resources were actually used for political purposes. The question is, who are they going to subpoena? Christie's top political aides who resigned or his deputy chief of staff who was fired or maybe both of them? What might they share that Governor Christie says, he knows nothing about.
Meanwhile, Governor Christie, he's apologized, he says, this is quote, "embarrassing and humiliating." He held a nearly two-hour press conference this week. Next week, he's scheduled to fundraise in Florida -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: We'll stay on the story. That's for sure Margaret, thanks.
Congress can't seem to get anything done and we may have discovered a reason why.
Plus, New York mayor under fire for eating pizza? I'll explain, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: So, what is going to happen to Chris Christie and how big is this investigation going to expand if regard to this bridge scandal? Let's bring in political commentators Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson to talk a little bit more about this guy. Chris Christie, you know, takes the spotlight like no one else, as we know. That news conference went on forever when this news broke. So, Marc I want to start with you. What's going to be the final verdict on this? Temporary distraction or do you think there's going to be major political damage here?
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There's major political damage no matter how you slice it for no other reason, then because we're going to be talking about it. You see Democrats in New Jersey very wisely developing stages of investigation, you know? And they are going to slow walk this thing because they want this to trail Chris Christie throughout the entire 2014 midterm season and maybe even 2016. That doesn't mean that Christie is guilty though. If Christie is not guilty, it's not a career ender. But it is something he has to deal with.
PHILLIPS: So, Ben, you know, does Christie have a problem within his inner circle? I mean, he wondered aloud as this whole news conference what he might have done that made his staff think that it was OK to lie to him.
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you always have narcissistic people around politicians. And you always have people that really aren't important except for their title and the fact that they work for you. And people do stupid things. We see this at companies, we seen this under CEOs, the private sectors and schools, you know, you have administrators at colleges that do really dumb things. So from his perspective, as long as there isn't any link to him being involved, I think it's very apparent now, there's no smoking gun, he fired the people that were idiots for doing this, he apologized and took responsibility for it.
I think this is going to go away in a couple months as long as he's not involved and I have no reason to believe now that he is involved and he took the appropriate action. So, I don't think this is going to affect him if he decides to run for president at all, it would be an afterthought by them.
PHILLIPS: What's that Marc?
HILL: I disagree, Ben. You know, this isn't just about innocence. There's a difference between innocent and being not guilty. One is a legal determination and one is moral one. If there's no smoking gun, if there's no formal link Chris Christie to this, many people will say, look, fine, he's off the hook into close matter. But there will be other people who will simply say, we don't buy it. We don't understand how there could be a culture in the administration that thinks this is OK.
PHILLIPS: Marc brings up a good point.
FERGUSON: But I'm not sure, but let me say this.
PHILLIPS: I mean, Ben talk about how he and his staffer like a family, that they were very close. I mean, what does it say about him as a manager about who he allows in his inner circle?
FERGUSON: Again, I think the people that are going to have the biggest problem with this are people that wouldn't vote for Chris Christie any way. I mean, look at the scandals that have been around for example the Clinton family and yet they are doing just fine. And Hillary Clinton, even with Benghazi, she's still going to be just fine as a presidential candidate. And that's something that was really serious and an ambassador died and there was a fake story put out. So, you know, people that are -- even if you look at what Marc said at the very beginning.
He said, Democrats are going to use this politically to try to drag it on into the midterms and even into 2016. And I think he nailed it. Democrats are going to use this to try to hurt him. I don't think, though, with the average Republican voter, which is what he's going to need if he makes it to primary, they are going to look at this anything else and hey, it was political in nature.
HILL: So you skipped a step. Ben, you kipped a step. But Ben Skipped a step, he said if you get out of the primary. Part of the challenge of the primary season is the calculus that voters have and the voters saying, is this someone who can win a national election? There might be people in the voting --
FERGUSON: Well, let me ask you, let me ask you --
HILL: No, no, who like him, who say, we are not going to vote for him because we think this could be an issue in the future.
PHILLIPS: So, let me ask you guys then. All right? I mean, political insiders care. We care as journalists. But do people outside the northeast and those who don't follow presidential politics really care about governors aids causing traffic jams?
HILL: Absolutely.
FERGUSON: No, I don't think they do at the end of the day, two years from now. I don't. And I think, look at it this way. Even Barack Obama is surviving going after the American people, looking them in the eye, knowing he was telling them a lie when he said, you could keep your doctor and you could keep your plan. He's even surviving that. That was something so personal. So, this is traffic. We're talking about traffic here.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: We know how traffic can impact all of our lives. Now we're just seeing it at a totally different level here. Mark, Ben, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for joining.
HILL: Pleasure.
FERGUSON: Thanks for having us.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, the chances are that you have an invisible passenger keeping tabs on you while you're driving. Most people don't even know that it's there. It's actually collecting personal data on you without your knowledge, without your consent, and without the ability to even control it. We'll going to talk about it straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, I have to apologize to Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson, our political commentators. I said good-bye but actually we have a few more things to talk to you guys about. Are you still heated and ready to go after each other?
FERGUSON: We're OK with that.
HILL: We're always heated.
PHILLIPS: OK. Well, let's head to Capitol Hill. Shall we? We have all heard people say that Congress is out of touch. I mean, how many times that we have all talked about that? Well now we may actually know why, guys. For the first time ever, more than half of all members are millionaires. We're talking 268 House members worth more than a million bucks according to this new analysis of the 2012 financial data by the Center for Responsive Politics.
Republican Congressman Darrell Issa in case you're wondering, top of the hit, worth about $464 million. And then you got fellow Republican David Valadao, he's actually or Valadao rather -- he's at the bottom, he owes $12 million in farm loans. Both are from California by the way. So, guys here we go. First off, yes I know, I certainly think you do, well, that's a lot of money in farm loans. And he's new too.
FERGUSON: Yes. That is a lot of land right there.
PHILLIPS: He has time to make money though. He's brand new. So, first half, you know, we found out at the end of the year, right? That the 113th Congress is the least popular and least productive ever. Well now look at all the millionaires. I mean, what does that tell us? Mark?
BILL: It tells us that one, we don't do a good job of electing people from the ground. You know, grassroots people. But also says, they don't have to work. They are not worried about this. If they lose their job, they will be just fine. Imagine if the American people were as comfortable as half the people in Congress financially. Ben is much wealthy than I am. I'm sure he can offer more insight on this though.
PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Ben.
FERGUSON: I'm just thrilled that I can finally look at Marc and go, Marc, when you criticize Republicans as being those evil rich people, look at your own side of the aisle, man. Like you've got so many millionaires over there it's not even funny. I do think on a serious note.
HILL: It's different, Ben. FERGUSON: This is an issue of term limits, term limits, term limits, these guys go to Congress. They somehow double and quadruple their net worth while they are there. And this is why, I think, for getting rid of all those rich Democrats that happen to exist, folks, there are rich Democrats in America, I think term limits is a positive thing.
PHILLIPS: So Marc, is this Congress living in a different world?
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: -- with another rich guy.
PHILLIPS: Well, is Congress living in a different world than most Americans then? Just out touch with the realities and the problems facing the lower and middle classes?
HILL: Yes, of course, they are. Of course they are like, they are like, oh, you can't find a new job in 20 weeks in a bad market. I found a job. I don't need a job. You know, they have a different mentality and different world view because they have different realities that they face. And for the record, Ben, there's nothing wrong with having millionaire Democrats. Millionaire Democrats like paying taxes though or at least willing to pay taxes. That's the issue here.
FERGUSON: Yes, they love it, I'm sure.
PHILLIPS: So Ben, recruiting people who have a lot of personal wealth, do you avoid electing people who would be career politicians feeding at the public truck. I mean, Bill Clinton never had a job in the private sector until he left office.
FERGUSON: Look, I think I don't have a problem with someone going out and making money. But when you come to Congress and you're able to somehow wow being a congressman build massive wealth, I'm going to throw up a caution stop sign and go hold on a second, how are you able to make all this money if you're supposed to be working for us, the taxpayers. And that's why I'm in favor of term limits which we don't have because these guys get there, they continue to somehow make insane amounts of money, which then makes them virtually impossible to beat because they have such cash on hand that they can literally keep buying these elections and that bothers me. And I think it doesn't serve the American people out.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Marc, are people really out of touch because they are rich?
HILL: I don't think people are necessarily out of touch because they are rich. I think they are out of touch because they have a different ideology than one that reflects democracy and paying one's fair share and all these other things. If you set term limits up, you're replacing one rich guy with another rich guy. You're just doing it more quickly. We need to change the way campaign financing works, we need to change the candidates are selected so that every day working- class Joes like me can be in Congress. PHILLIPS: Working-class Joes like Mark.
(LAUGHTER)
You guys, while I have you, for the record, none of us are millionaires. I got to ask you about the biggest scandal happening right now and that's Forkgate. New mayor, Bill de Blasio, of New York, cut his pizza with a fork this week instead of folding it like a true New Yorker. Can he recover from that?
HILL: Come on, man.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This goes back to what Mark and I were just talking about, the guys that are out of touch. How can a guy that cuts his pizza really understand what the real New Yorker on the subway is dealing with?
(LAUGHTER)
He has no clue what's going on because he's used to using silverware to eat pizza. Come on.
PHILLIPS: Here's the deal though.
HILL: I agree.
PHILLIPS: When you fold the pizza, it gets all drippy and goes down the tie or dress or whatever you're wearing.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: That's what's good about New York.
HILL: That's the point.
FERGUSON: That's what's good about New York.
HILL: This guy has screwed up a lot for us. We were getting rid of the image of Democrats being hoity-toity, snooty liberals, who did all this stuff.
(LAUGHTER)
And this guy pulls out a knife and fork to eat a pizza. This is a political scandal of the highest rank.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: You know what, Mark? You know what's going to happen next? This guy is going to come out with some crazy idea like making big drinks smaller and making it where you can only buy one piece of pizza at a time.
(LAUGHTER)
You wait. He's going to have a crazy idea like you can't have a large coffee. Wait, we already had a guy that did that, didn't wee.
PHILLIPS: I don't know. I'm looking -- oh.
HILL: And he was not a Democrat. And he was not a Democrat, sir.
(LAUGHTER)
FERGUSON: You can claim him though. I'll let you have him.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: We don't want him.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: It's always fun with you guys.
By the way, I know the best place in New York, 99 cent slices. We'll do a little folding of our own.
FERGUSON: You're buying, right?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Of course.
FERGUSON: You're the one that's really got the money.
PHILLIPS: Hey, I'm not the millionaire.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: I take you to the 99 cents a slice, my friend.
All right, guys, have a great night.
HILL: Thanks.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIPS: Ahead, your car may be spying on you. Yes, your car. Soon it may help the government draft your tax bill. We'll explain, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: From surveillance cameras to hackers, the NSA or even apps on your phone that seem harmless, it can be hard to escape that feeling that someone is tracking your every move. Well, they are. And now your car is, too. A recent government report found that your GPS system is collecting information on you. Then it keeps that information for up to seven years. That's not all. If you have a car manufactured since 1999, chances are there's an invisible passenger keeping tabs on you while you drive. It's a black box that works like a flight data recorder in airplanes, and by September 1st, it will be required in all vehicles. Why? Well, for one, the government might want to track you and tax you for every single mile you drive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. EARL BLUMENAUER, (D), OREGON: People could use a Smartphone. They could use on-board navigation system. You could even have people just deal with the mileage check when they go to the vehicle inspection unit every year. Some people may just opt for a flat fee. That's the whole idea behind the pilot project, is for people to explore the choices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Congressman Blumenauer hopes to roll out that pilot program for the Pay by the Mile tax by 2015. Good idea or breach of privacy? This will be an interesting discussion.
I can't seem to get rid of CNN political commentator, Ben Ferguson. So we're bringing him back.
(LAUGHER)
Also with me is Brett Larson, the host of TechBytes. Edward Low is the editor-in-chief with "Motor Trend" magazine. He's on the phone. And last but not least, Adrian Moore, the vice president of the Reason Foundation.
Brett, I want to start with you.
How valuable would this kind of data be to, say, insurance companies, retailers, cities that want to fix traffic problems, could your data be up for grabs and sold to the highest bidder?
BRETT LARSON, HOST, TECHBYTES: Absolutely. Data, especially, our personal data is very valuable. You'd be surprised how much your e- mail address is worth, how much it's worth for retailers to get your cell phone number. Data like this is more valuable, especially, as you mentioned, to government agencies, to cities that are looking for ways to maximize their tax revenue, looking for ways to say, OK, we get a lot of traffic through this area, why don't we bill the people who are actually coming through this area. Instead of putting in a toll road system, instead of freeways, actually bill the people who are using it. And we do have the technology to do that. Granted, yes, you are being spied on. 7-Eleven and all the gas stations are going to know how many times are going by, so you might see coupons showing up for the places you're passing. That data is going to be incredibly valuable.
PHILLIPS: So we should note that Congressman Blumenauer says that the Pay by the Mileage plan would track how you drive, not where you go. But depending on what you use, can that be promised?
LARSON: It can and it can't. It depends on what they are getting out of the black boxes. Our Smartphones can already be accurate at telling the world where we are and where we have gone. There's been a lot of discussion about this over the past couple months, especially in light of what the NSA knows about us. Our Smartphones have GPS in them. They know I'm sitting at Time Warner Center. And they know where I came from. That kind of information is very valuable to retailers. It could also potentially be very valuable to the government.
PHILLIPS: And that is going to make a lot of people nervous.
Edward, these black boxes will soon be standard in all new cars. They can't be switched off. Should we be concerned?
EDWARD LOW, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, MOTOR TREND: Honestly, I don't think there should be a fear. As already mentioned, you have one of the most sophisticated monitoring e devices in your pocket with you right now, your Smartphone. So much of the tracking, you opt in for. Twitter updates, Four Square, we're doing it already. And to be honest, the fears of government being able to utilize the big data that they could conceivably collect in our cars that they could figure out how to parse it and utilize it in a way that's scary, we're talking about the same government that couldn't get a health care website off the ground. That's a fairly basic operation.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Ben, does that scare you?
FERGUSON: The difference is he said a keyword. With the Smartphone, you're opting in to checking in at these places. You, as a consumer, are choosing to actually say where you are. This box, I don't have a choice with.
The other thing is I don't trust the government with this information. The government may not have been able to set up a website very well, but if a private-sector industry comes in and says we'd love to help you figure out how to use this box so we can buy this information about where people go with their cars, where they drive. Oh, by the way, you'll be able to make a ton of money off these people by taxing these areas where they drive a lot. That, to me, is incredibly creepy.
And the main thing is I don't trust the government to not abuse that power or sell it to make money off of it. Someone wants to pay me to put a black box in my car for their own reasons, then send me a check, we'll talk. But the government shouldn't have a right to that in my car without me making money off of it.
PHILLIPS: Let me bring Adrian in.
Because, Adrian, you have been involved --
(LAUGHTER)
Yeah, Ben always lays it out there.
You've been involved with some of the pilot programs that are currently testing the Pay by the Mileage tax. What are your thoughts on this? Is this a situation where, could the police be called if they are tracking how you're driving if you're drunk or in Colorado and you're high or you're speeding?
(LAUGHTER)
ADRIAN MOORE, VICE PRESIDENT, REASON FOUNDATION: Well, this is a weird blend of both sort of the next wave of how to pay for transportation and creepy and scary. And it all depends on who is in control. If the government is mandating these things and they are putting it in without customers' consent and forcing auto makers to do it, it's one kettle of fish. It's another thing, as Ben said, someone is offering to do this or there's some kind of deal being made.
Now, there's a bunch of states that are experimenting with this at different levels. Several states have already done pilot projects. What Congressman Blumenauer is talking about doing is having the federal government team up with states to do some bigger pilot projects. So it's still very much in the pilot project phase.
All these states have experimented with, like Congressman Blumenauer said, giving people no technology options, little bit of technology options, and then the more scary GPS-tracking-you kind of technology options. You get to choose in the pilots we have had so far. I think that's the way we want it to stay. Because the gas tax has to be replaced. Every time cars get more fuel efficient, wealthier people pay less for the roads and poor people pay more for the roads. There's not enough -- we're increasingly not paying for the miles we use and we're paying for it in a more regressive way and that's just not sustainable.
PHILLIPS: Well, we'll be tracking the tracking program for sure.
(LAUGHER)
Adrian, Brett, Edward and Ben, I'm finally saying good-bye to you.
(LAUGHTER)
Gentlemen, thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: He weighed just 100 pounds and suffered from schizophrenia, but that didn't stop police from shooting and killing a North Carolina teenager.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Did that officer yell for help or ask for someone to shoot this man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir, he did not. UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Then why did the detective feel like he needed to use deadly force on him?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Coming up next, why a lawyer for the accused officer says his client was simply following police protocol.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: A 33-year-old Texas woman is at the center of a life-and- death debate. The body of Marlise Munoz is being kept on life support after her family says she was declared brain dead. Her husband says she wouldn't want to be kept alive by any medical technology. But state law requires her body be sustained because she's nearly 20 weeks pregnant.
More now from CNN's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She was a 33-year-old mother of a young baby boy, a paramedic married to another paramedic. The couple expecting their second child when it happened. Marlise Munoz collapsed in her home of an apparent blood clot in her lung. Her family got devastating news shortly after. They say doctors told them she was brain dead and would never recover. Her body is now connected to a ventilator inside this Ft. Worth, Texas, hospital, despite her family's wishes.
ERICK MUNOZ, HUSBAND: We reached a point where you wish that your wife's body would stop.
LAVANDERA: The hospital refuses to unplug the ventilators because she's pregnant, and Texas is one of about 30 states that restrict a woman's ability to be disconnected from life support if they are pregnant regardless of the family's directive.
Erick Munoz and his wife are paramedics and end of life issues is something they talked about often.
MUNOZ: We have seen things out in the field. We both knew that we didn't want to be on life support.
LAVANDERA: Officials at John Peter Smith Hospital here in Ft. Worth will not say if Marlise Munoz is brain dead, but in a statement, hospital officials did say that the hospital "will follow the law as it applies to health care in the state of Texas" and that "every day we have patients and families who must make difficult decisions. Our position remains the same. We will follow the law."
TOM MAYO, LAW PROFESSOR, SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY: I think they got it wrong.
LAVANDERA: Tom Mayo was one of the advisers who helped write this law 15 years ago and was signed by then-Governor George Bush. The Southern Methodist University law professor says, If Munoz is, indeed, brain dead, then the hospital has the law all wrong.
MAYO: If she's brain dead, she's already dead. So letting her die isn't really the concept. But can you say, take her off the ventilator? I believe he can. Surrogate decision makers make those kinds of decisions with their doctors every day.
LAVANDERA: Marlise Munoz was 14 weeks pregnant when she collapsed. The fetus is now almost 20 weeks. The family says the fetus still has a heartbeat but it's not clear if it can even survive.
In the meantime, Erick Munoz has to standby and watch his wife trapped in a position he says she never wanted to be in.
MUNOZ: I can't say enough about her. Everything I do will be always short of what she was. I can't do her justice. She's a great woman.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Fort Worth, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Joining me to discuss, criminal defense attorney, Holly Hughes; and psychologist, Dr. Jeff Gardere.
So Munoz never signed a document, an official document. She just said I don't want to be kept alive like that. Even if she had signed the paperwork, the law would still override that?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: It absolutely would override. You're talking about an advanced directive, or do-not-resuscitate order, where ahead of time somebody sits down and says if I'm ever in this situation, these are my wishes. In Texas, it would not matter because the law says you cannot take away life-sustaining capabilities from the fetus and that's what complicates the situation, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: They are saying she's brain dead but Texas is saying she's not.
HUGHES: Correct.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: -- the words between brain dead and dead.
HUGHES: That's exactly right. It's semantics at this point and, unfortunately, this family is caught in the middle of
PHILLIPS: So many medical ethicists who say that the law would not hold up here, because the woman is considered dead, so how does the unborn child have an impact here?
JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there is also an unethical rule that many states follow which is that parents cannot withhold life or limb saving treatment from a child. In this case, it is an unborn child. So what they are trying to do is to keep her body alive in order for the fetus to continue to grow. The problem, of course, is now that we have to look at burdens versus benefits for the unborn child. And once the child is born, will that child have all sorts of developmental or physical, mental issues? So this is really a conundrum here. People really don't know what to do, but they are hoping that the baby will be fine.
PHILLIPS: All right, Jeff and Holly, another case that I want to talk to you about now, and this one in North Carolina, that teen shot and killed by a police officer. His funeral today. The family called police saying they needed help with their son, who is mentally ill. But when the officers could not restrain him, a third officer walked into the door and shot him. The family argues there was no justification for the killing, because he is 18 years old and weighing 100 pound.
So, Holly, was force justified? You have two officers and a third one walks in. How can three officers not restrain a schizophrenic young man, 100 pounds?
HUGHES: Well, Kyra, when somebody is mentally ill, they have this sometimes extraordinary capability to fight. They have restraint that is not normally found. What we failed to mention in the lead-in is that when the family called they said that he was armed with a screwdriver and threatening his mother. So when the officers arrived, there was a screwdriver involved. And the detective who did the shooting is going to run into a problem, because he gave inconsistent statements. Initially, he said he fired the shot to protect himself from the young man with the screwdriver. But on the follow up, he said that I did it to protect another officer. Those inconsistencies may trip him up. Force may have been justified if other officers say, yes an attack was going on and someone else's life was in imminent danger.
PHILLIPS: Let me follow up on then -- with you, Jeff -- with this teen that suffered schizophrenia. Is it likely that he had the strength? Does that happened with the -- with someone who is mentally ill like that, that they can be so out of control that three officers cannot restrain them?
GARDERE: Well, anybody in a rage can be out of control, and because of adrenaline, have some enhanced strength. But we should point out that schizophrenics are not known for violence.
I think the real issue here is that you have three different police officers from three different departments, and two of the initial police departments knew that the young man had schizophrenia, and they knew how the deal with it. It was the third officer who seems to have not known anything about this young man, and may have been somehow too fearful with this. I don't think that he handled it well at all. And this young man may have been shot for in reason, and killed for no reason at all.
PHILLIPS: Jeff and Holly, stay with me.
Ahead, a video that has America talking, a toddler still in diapers and swearing, and even pulls out the middle finger, and using racial slurs. We will tell you what this boy's mother has to say about this video.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: So it is the video that has gone viral and everybody is talking about it, the toddler cussing and using racial slurs and flipping the finger.
But I want to warn you that it is disturbing to hear what is going on here, but you have to see it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED), and you are a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: You are a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) -- stop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You throwing a fit right now (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ain't talking that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say, (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is why you can't fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say you a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: You a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's up then?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: As a mother, it makes my sick to my stomach.
And with we are finding out that the mother of the child is 16 years old, and here is what she said about the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: They weren't worried about the video, because he had a clean diaper, and every kid does it. And he is a smart little boy. And all that stuff that he did, he does not do that unless somebody, other person does that. My son does not cuss like that. I don't allow it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Holly and Jeff still with us.
Jeff, you heard the mom, every kid does it. And you are a psychologist, and a doctor, and what do you think of that?
GARDERE: Well, it is my experience as a psychologist and a doctor that every child does not cuss. Yes, some children who do, but perhaps it is a precocious child or, in this case, a child that has been coached. I am sure that it is a very intelligent child, and she is defending her child as any mother would do, but she is in denial as to what has been going on with her child and how he is being influenced by others.
PHILLIPS: Well, she and her son are in protective custody, by the way.
Holly, the police union posted this online -- and I want to quote here -- what they call "thug culture" and what it can do to the children. Was that appropriate, what they did?
HUGHES: No.
PHILLIPS: Why not.
HUGHES: I am in total disagreement. This is originally posted by some knuckle-headed teenaged kid who was a friend of the mom's brother. And just because he posted it on Facebook, does not mean that the police union needs imitate his bad behavior and put this child's face out there, unblurred, out there for the world to see.
If they wanted to comment on it, Kyra, I'm OK with that. Say, hey, we saw it on the YouTube or on Facebook, this awful video where the toddler was saying this, this, this. This is how it begins. This is how we perpetuate bad behavior and thuggery. You do not put that little boy's face out there because it is on Facebook.
PHILLIPS: But what if it had not been released, that 2-year-old child -- I mean, it has everybody talking.
HUGHES: Absolutely. I am not condoning what happened in the house. Let's start with the fact that the mother is 16, and so she is obviously not living in her own home, and she is living with other people who are having a bad influence. The police should have absolutely been called, and that is not the point. They should have intervened and child services should have called and there should have been an investigation. All of that is fine. But for the police union, to post it and put it put it up there, instead of writing an article on it, making a comment on it, that is bad behavior.
PHILLIPS: On the note of the child, Jeff, before we go, the child is 2 years old. Can he get into the good home and be OK, and can he forget all of this? I mean, is he young enough to block all of this out?
GARDERE: Well, it is vitally important that the child and the mother get help. She is a child herself. And I believe that is starting to happen.
Holly is absolutely correct, the police union was disgraceful by doing this. They are race-baiting. I think it is absolutely wrong. We need to help the child, help the mother, not instill fear within the community.
PHILLIPS: -- of the child. Amen to that.
Jeff and Holly, guys, thank you so much.
GARDERE: Thank you.
HUGHES: Thank you.
