Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Auction to Kill Rare Black Rhino; Toxic Tap Water for 300,000 Residents

Aired January 11, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Here's our Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Coming this close to a black rhinoceros is rare. There are only about 5,000 left in the world. In the country of Namibia in southern Africa, there are only 1,700 still alive.

Thousands of miles away in this convention hall in Texas, the Dallas Safari Club says it has a way of helping save this ancient beast. The group will auction off a permit from the Namibian government to hunt and kill one black rhino.

The club's executive director Ben Carter says sacrificing one animal for the greater good is smart conservation.

BEN CARTER, DALLAS SAFARI CLUB: It's going to be able to raise more money than any other way you can do it to help provide for all the conservation needs that we know from the black rhino.

LAVANDERA: The auction has sparked death threats which the FBI is investigating, along with a vicious debate over how to save this endangered species. Critics call the auction a sad joke.

(on camera): Marcia, tell us where you're joining us from?

MARCIA FARGNOLI, SAVE THE RHINO TRUST: I'm sitting in (INAUDIBLE) Namibia, in Africa.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Marcia Fargnoli is CEO of Save the Rhino Trust and works with the Namibian government to protect the rhinos.

(on camera): Do you agree with this tactic, the way they're doing this?

FARGNOLI: I personally don't agree. This is actually saying that one rhino is worth dead much more than it is alive.

LAVANDERA: The black rhino hunting permit will be auctioned off Saturday night. It's a closed event. You got to have a special ticket to get in. No cameras will be allowed inside. Organizers say it's to protect the identity of the bidders.

The Dallas Safari Club estimate the permit could sell to as much as $250,000, even up to $1 million.

(voice-over): The Dallas Safari Club says all of the money will be donated to Namibia's conversation efforts to save the black rhino and that the government has picked a handful of rhinos that can be targeted by the hunter who wins the auction.

CARTER: They've already picked up two or three black rhino males that are old, not breeding males. They're not contributing to the population anymore.

In fact, black rhinos are very territorial and they're very aggressive. And they actually are detrimental to the population when they get old like that. They are like a cranky old man.

LAVANDERA: But animal conservation groups say it would be better to keep the rhino alive and raise money through tourism, selling the opportunity to see these animals up close in the wild.

JEFFREY FLOCKEN, INTERNATIONAL FUND FOR ANIMAL WELFARE: I can't state how strongly enough how perverse this is to say that killing these animals is the best thing for these animals. It is a critically endangered species.

LAVANDERA: The black rhino is in the crosshairs of controversy and both sides say they're doing what's best for this wild beast.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, tonight's auction has plenty of opponents. Our next guest is one of them, John Zaller. He created "Crash," an exhibition to save the rhinos. It's a traveling exhibit designed to raise awareness about rhino poaching.

John joins me on the phone from Lansing, Michigan.

So, John, let me just get just get your initial reaction to what's happening tonight?

JOHN ZALLER, CRASH (via telephone): Well, it is a contradiction of perseverance. There is really no way that you can say that you're going to honor something or preserve something by killing it.

PHILLIPS: Well, two points of interest, because coming out of Namibia. The government there actually said the hunt of black rhino is not taken lightly, only old geriatric bulls which are marginalized in the population and do not contribute to reproduction are trophy hunted.

ZALLER: Well, it is a mixed message if you are going to conserve or, you know, if you are going to kill off, and when you take, and when you take that stance, you are -- you're creating a controversial stance that contradicts itself. So really, what it comes down to is that you can't have it both ways in terms of the conservation. I would -- I would challenge the Dallas Safari Club to only auction off that license to someone who promises not the use it. That would be a wiser way to raise this awareness that there is a potential to kill a rhino through the licenses issued by the Namibian government, but that will not be a step that is taken.

PHILLIPS: So, I guess there is a possibility that someone could buy the permit and never use it, but let me ask you. Is there any danger to the hunter here?

ZALLER: It's my understanding that in terms of them being -- how do you mean?

PHILLIPS: Well, you know, say someone buys this permit, and wants to go and hunt the rhinoceros, and you know, how will -- it is a dangerous animal?

ZALLER: In the -- with the surroundings that, you know, any big game hunter has, and the escort that any big game hunter has, they are not in any danger at all. And I think that's, you know, that is another position or another issue about big game hunting that it is really not, there is not a lot of hunting involved, but it's more trackers who take you to the spot and tell you where to shoot.

PHILLIPS: And you kill the animal.

ZALLER: Yes.

PHILLIPS: All right. Let me ask you this, because the safari club says it is the best way to support the population of black rhinos, going on to say we know it's right way to do it. We are relying on the scientists and the biologists. This is the best way to support the population of the black rhinos.

You obviously disagree with that. What do you say to them? What is the best way?

ZALLER: Well, the best way is to raise the issue, which they have done for us, and in the absurd way, and is to grow the community reserves and grow country's natural reserves so that the rhinos can be both conserved and the people of Namibia can benefit from the tourist dollars that can come through by having the rhinos alive and not threatened. You've got a declining population of rhinos -- of black rhinos of little over 5,000 alive in the wild today that could be nurtured to increase the population in Namibia and increase tourism, and looking at approximately $7 million in U.S. dollars in annual tourism to Namibia. And that can increase, and also increase the economic well-being of the people who are part of those reserves and those community programs.

PHILLIPS: John Zaller, I appreciate your calling in, and we will follow the action and see how much that permit goes for, and we're going to follow-up. Thanks, John.

ZALLER: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, first, it was target. Now, another retailer says your information was stolen from them, too. We'll have that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Another major retail store says that hackers managed to penetrate their customer information databases. Managers at Neiman Marcus now say says that some shoppers' credit cards may have been compromised in the security breach that happened during the holiday season. They didn't say how many cards are affected or how hackers managed to get around their cyber security. They're not the only store to be hit by computer criminals as well. You know that.

Target now says that as many as 70 million people may have had credit card information and email addresses stolen by hackers between thanksgiving and Christmas, at a much higher number than target had originally reported.

And in West Virginia, hundreds of thousands of people desperate for answers. Officials now say it could be days before it will be safe for them to use the tap water. It's a state of emergency for nine counties after 7,500 gallons of toxic chemical leaked out of a storage tank and into the ground water. This means not bathing, no brushing your teeth.

CNN's Erin McPike is in Washington.

Erin, the Department of Homeland Security did send truckloads of freshwater. But that isn't going to last very long.

I mean, do we have any idea when this could over?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, there is a declining level of that chemical in the water, but it is not safe to use yet, and the president of West Virginia American Water said it will take days, because they have to repeatedly test the water to make sure that it is safe, and have successful results for several tests done before they say it can be safe to use.

Now, obviously, this has been a big problem in Charleston and the surrounding areas, because the businesses have had to close down, because they can't use their water, either. So, it's not only an economic concern, but also a health concern as well. And as you mentioned -- for daily life, because people cannot cook with it. They cannot brush their teeth with this water, and it is a big disruption for the Charleston area -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And Erin Brockovich, we know her as a well known environmentalist activist, she's speaking out about the situation. What did she say?

MCPIKE: Well, Kyra, she was on CNN last night, and you may remember her, because she has led class action lawsuits before. Let's take a listen to what she had to say last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN BROCKOVICH, ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST: When there is a disaster like this, I'm usually flooded with e-mails from the community, and so our job is to go to assist, advise, help them in any way we can. We'll take a look at the site, and see possibly ourselves how that breach did occur, and then go from there. And so, as the disaster is unfolding, I'm getting more and more e-mails. So, we will get on the ground, work with those communities, hear from those communities and begin an investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: And in addition to that, booth Goodwin who is the U.S. attorney in West Virginia said last night that he also plans to launch a federal investigation and there could be criminal charges brought against this company simply for negligence, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. We will follow it. Erin, thanks.

On the surface, it may seem like good news for one of baseball's biggest names, but when it comes down to it, A-Rod's career may be done after a big decision that came down today. I will tell you about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, if Major League Baseball has its way, you will not see A-Rod in the game until 2015 and maybe never. A suspension for the New York Yankees' slugger was shortened today, but it would still last a whole season.

Even with his options running out, A-Rod isn't giving up.

CNN's Jason Carroll explains how he is fighting back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Alex Rodriguez a Yankee known for setting records now has one more. He has the dishonorable distinction of being hit with the longest suspension for doping in baseball's history, a 162-game suspension, benching him for an entire season, and potentially ending the 38-year-old's career.

This after baseball's chief arbitrator reduced the initial 211-game suspension MLB imposed that on Rodriguez for allegedly using performance-enhancing drug.

Rodriguez releasing a statement, saying that "the number of games sadly comes as no surprise as the deck has been stacked against me from day one, I have been clear that I have not used the performance- enhancing substances and in order to prove it, I will take the fight to federal court."

MIKE WISE, WASHINGTON POST COLUMNIST: My advice to him as I gave to Lance Armstrong, years ago, just fess up.

CARROLL: Major League Baseball wanted the original suspension to the stand, saying, "While we believe the original 211-game suspension was appropriate, we respect the decision rendered by the panel, and we'll focus on our continuing efforts on eliminating the performance enhancing substances from our game."

ALEX RODRIGUEZ, NEW YORK YANKEES: I bang the table, and I kicked a briefcase and slammed out of the room.

CARROLL: Rodriguez went to arbitration after MLB imposed the 211-game suspension, but quickly became frustrated by the process, he spoke out on sports radio after he stormed out of the hearing last November, upset after learning baseball's commissioner, Bud Selig, would not testify about allegations MLB used unethical tactics while investigating Rodriguez.

RODRIGUEZ: I exploded. I was very upset. I probably overreacted, but that's just -- it came from the heart. And it's been a very difficult process.

CARROLL: In all, 13 players were suspended last year after MLB found they had used PEDs obtained from the now defunct biogenesis clinic in Florida. All suspended for 50 games except for Milwaukee Brewers right-fielder Ryan Braun, who received a 65-game ban. Some, but not all fans saying Rodriguez's punishment was justified.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like how do you hand that out to one person and not give anything to all these other people that are doing the same thing. But, yes, I guess it is, if you talk about just A-rod. Yes, I think it's too harsh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he deserves it. I think there should be doping in baseball. It's America's pastime.

CARROLL: Former Chicago White Sox first baseman Frank Thomas inducted into the baseball hall of fame called the Rodriguez's suspension a sad day for the sport.

(on camera): What are some of your thoughts about everything that's going on with the Alex Rodriguez?

FRANK THOMAS, HALL OF FAME BASEBALL PLAYER: One thing I said every year and many years, things spiraled out of control in the late '90s and 2000 era. It's sad, because Alex was such a great talent.

CARROLL: Will Rodriguez continue to play while he appeals the suspension? His attorneys will ask a federal judge for an injunction to allow Rodriguez to continue swinging the bat while he fights to clear his name.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: This morning, the family of Kendrick Johnson rallied with friends and loved ones to demand answers in his death, one year after 17-year-old's body was found rolled up in a gym mat. The FBI has also been asking questions in Valdosta, trying to figure out what exactly happened.

His mom isn't giving up hope that one day, she'll find out how her son died.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKIE JOHNSON, KENDRICK'S MOTHER: Each and every day I struggle to fight and just to get up out of the bed, and some days, nobody really understanding. But one thing about it, I will never give up, this fight for my child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The sheriff's office ruled the death an accident last year, but a private pathologist conducted a second autopsy and determined it was a homicide.

Israel is mourning the death of a legendary figure. Former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon died today, nearly eight years after he lapsed into a coma after suffering a stroke. Sharon was one of the country's most famous military leaders. Then, as prime minister, he stunned the world in 2005 by ordering a complete withdrawal of Israeli security forces from the Gaza strip. He was also a backer of Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territory.

The biggest names in Hollywood usually show up for the Golden Globes, but it is probably the stars that won't be there that have us talking next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The Golden Globes is one of Hollywood's biggest nights of the year and it is easy to see why. Tina Fey and Amy Poehler will return as hosts. Jennifer Lawrence, Robert Downey, Jr., and Tom Hanks are all among A-list presenters as well.

But it's who is not going to be there that's got everybody talking. Actor/director Woody Allen will be receiving one of the industry's top honors Sunday night. He'll be presented with the Cecil B. DeMille Lifetime Achievement Award. But chances are, he won't show up.

Let's talk about why. Samantha Schacher, host of Pop Trigger on the Young Turks Network. Also, Stacy Wilson, senior editor of the "Hollywood Reporter".

So, Stacy, let's start with you. Why wouldn't Woody Allen show up?

STACY WILSON, HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: Well, Woody has made a long practice of never attending the awards show, which started in probably four decades ago when his film "Sleeper" was snubbed by the academy, and he wrote these very long myths about why award shows just were silly. But he did attend the 2002 Oscars after 9/11 to express his thanks to the academy for its support of New York City. So, that was a very sort of emotional moment for him, but, you know, all sources say he definitely not attending this weekend. And honestly, if he did, that would be sort of the shock of the night.

PHILLIPS: Wow. Samantha, do you agree? SAMANTHA SCHACHER, YOUNG TURKS: I do agree. I think she hit the nail on the head and it's not only Woody that will probably not show up. Let's talk about Oprah Winfrey, and Jonah Hill who both also got royally snubbed from the Hollywood foreign press. Oprah should have been nominated for "The Butler", as well as Forest Whitaker, as well as Jonah Hill for his excellent performance in "The Wolf of Wall Street".

And what happened to, Stacy, "Fruitvale Station"? That was Sundance grand jury prize winner, audition winner, and there's zero nominations for that movie, the Oscar Grant story as well.

PHILLIPS: OK. So, give me the scoop, ladies, why does this snubbing happen? What's going on? Isn't that political? Do they have personal risks? Do they not like the individuals, you know, one-on- one -- I mean, give me the scoop?

WILSON: I think it's a combination of everything you just said. You know, the HFPA, which is the governing body behind the Globes, is a very different group of people from the academy, which is different from the Screen Actor Guild Awards. People have their favorite and, you know what, what a huge problem is, there are just too many movies to see, and people don't have time to sit down and watch 30 or 40 movies and really give each one careful consideration. So, if people have a favorite, then they have a favorite. And, you know, it's like anything. They just think, well, or that person is my friend, or I really like her, or sometimes the careful thought does not go into the decisions.

PHILLIPS: Well, Samantha, let's talk about something positive here. The return of Amy and Tina, all right? The duo had rave reviews, last year, even got a ratings boost -- something all the awards shows have been trying for. So, can the ladies top last year's performance? What do you think?

SCHACHER: Oh, without a doubt. I'm so happy that they are returning, and let's be honest, the Hollywood foreign press, they dance to beat of their own drum, they love Amy and Tina, and they do have their favorites as Stacy just said. I think that their favorites are obviously with seven nominations each is going to be "American Hustle" and "12 Years a Slave."

I know I'm rooting for "12 Years of Slave" to win best picture. What a harrowing and raw portrayal of such an unjust black American history. But I have a feeling that it's not even going to win. I think "Gravity" is going to take best picture.

Stacy, give me a bold prediction, something nobody will expect?

WILSON: Oh, gosh, you mean a possible spoiler?

PHILLIPS: Yes.

WILSON: Possible spoiler -- well, you know it would be exciting is if Andy Samberg or his show "Brooklyn Nine-Nine" could break through the comedy series acting category, and serious category. I think that would be super shocking, and the Globes are very, very apt to surprise. So, I'm kind of rooting for that show. It's sort of an underdog going into the race.

PHILLIPS: Samantha?

SCHACHER: Well, I will be very upset if Bryan Cranston does not take the best actor for best series for "Breaking Bad". Not only is "Breaking Bad" over with, but he humanized Heisenberg for us. I mean, he somehow got all of us rooting for the bad guy, and I just can't imagine if he doesn't win for the best actor.

WILSON: And "Breaking Bad" has never won.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

WILSON: That's true.

PHILLIPS: And so many people talk about that show.

WILSON: Yes, "Breaking Bad" has never won the Golden Globe, and this would be a huge moment.

PHILLIPS: So, why do you think that is, Stacey?

WILSON: You know, it took a long time for the show to get a lot of traction commercially and, of course, it won an Emmy a few months ago. So, the fact that "Homeland", won the Emmy the year that it also won the Globe really bodes well for "Breaking Bad" with that momentum. So, I think a lot of people are looking for that show.

PHILLIPS: All right. There's always a big surprise.

SCHACHER: And "Homeland" is not nominated today.

PHILLIPS: OK. There you go.

PHILLIPS: Here today, gone tomorrow, right?

SCHACHER: Right, exactly.

PHILLIPS: It's kind of like our business.

OK. There is always a big surprise, guys, and last year it was a cameo by former President Bill Clinton. So, any idea of what is going to be in store for this show? Stacey, I'll start with you.

WILSSON: Well, I have to go back to Woody Allen. It would be a surprise guest, because you know, Diane Keaton is set to accept his award, but honesty, if he walked on stage, I think people would absolutely lose it. And second to him, Hillary Clinton, because she is not going to let her husband one-up her.

PHILLIPS: That's a great point, and she is going to want to run for president, right?

Samantha, what is your favorite cameo surprise would be? SCHACHER: Well, definitely the biggest surprise would have to be our own president, President Obama, why not? I mean, nowadays with the Golden Globes, you literally could expect anything, but I think that if Oprah shows up and Jonah Hill shows up and Woody shows up, all of these people that have been snubbed, I think that would be a surprise.

PHILLIPS: I wonder what's the president's favorite movie is. Let's throw it out there. What do you think? Stacey, what do you think the president's favorite movie was?

WILSON: Oh, well, you know, this year's been so amazing for African- American theme films. I have a feeling he's probably been able to screen and watch a lot of these incredible stories. But, you know, maybe he wanted something a little bit less serious and maybe he went for "Wolf of Wall Street", which is totally nuts, or possibly "Gravity", which he could watch with his girls.

PHILLIPS: OK, Samantha --

WILSON: So I don't know how he has time for it all, frankly.

PHILLIPS: Yes, I don't either. All right. We've got 20 seconds, Samantha. I'm trying to get the president to call in. What do you think of his movie favorite is?

SCHACHER: That would be awesome. I do recall him talking about loving "The Butler," as well as "Fruitvale Station". So, I would have to say that he's probably disappointed that "Fruitvale Station" and "The Butler", both didn't get nominated as well.

PHILLIPS: All right. Stacey, Samantha, thanks so much.

I'm told we have the president on line two, but I guess we've got to wrap. We've only got a couple of seconds. Ladies, thank you.

I'm Kyra Phillips.

"Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, First Ladies of Comedy" begins right now.