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Obama's NSA Proposals; Barbara Bush: Jeb Should Not Run for President; Michelle Obama Turns 50; "Last Days of Vietnam" a Hit at Sundance

Aired January 17, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Obama unveils a major overhaul of NSA surveillance. He outlined changes to the massive collection of phone data exposed by the NSA leaker Edward Snowden. He called for strengthening oversight of the program, a new panel of privacy advocates and restrictions on the collection of information. He also said there would be no routine monitoring of world leaders who are allies and close friends of the United States, and a new White House official to oversee the privacy of all of this. In his speech just a little while ago, the president talked about the need to try to balance privacy and national security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have to make some important decisions about how to protect ourselves and sustain our leadership in the world, while upholding the civil liberties and privacy protections that our ideals and our Constitution require.

We need to do so not only because it is right, but because the challenges posed by threats like terrorism and proliferation and cyber-attacks are not going away any time soon. They are going to continue to be a major problem. And for our intelligence community to be effective over the long haul, we must maintain the trust of the American people and people around the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's get some reaction to the president's proposals.

Joining us now, the co-host of CNN's "Crossfire," former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, and Democratic strategist, Stephanie Cutter, who used to work in the White House for the president.

Mr. Speaker, how did the president do?

NEWT GINGRICH, CNN HOST, CROSSFIRE & FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I think it was a painful speech for him. I think he's deeply conflicted. I think all of his natural instincts are with the civil libertarians, as when he was a Senator. I think he's now had five years of briefings that are terrifying. And he is trying to communicate a balance of the two. I don't think particularly agree with some of his steps he's taken. And I think they're driven by polls and by political pressure. But I understand what he's trying to accomplish.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You know the president, Stephanie, well. Is he that conflicted, tormented inside, or this pressure he's under to protect national security or privacy?

STEPHANIE CUTTER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I wouldn't call it conflict, but I would say he's the first president that's had to deal with these issues and the data-driven society we're now living in. And he is attempting to protect the American people in two ways. There's personal security against terrorism, but also protect their privacy. And that's what we saw today, a balance of still achieving some significant national security programs. Those programs aren't going to go away. But he put in some real significant and decisive checks and balances.

BLITZER: So you were pleased with what --

(CROSSTALK)

CUTTER: -- to make sure the American people could trust what's happening.

BLITZER: You liked him?

CUTTER: Yes, I did.

BLITZER: You didn't like him?

(LAUGHTER)

GINGRICH: No, I think her position is defensible. But --

(LAUGHTER)

CUTTER: Thank you, Newt.

(LAUGHTER)

GINGRICH: But I think it's not going to please anybody, OK? No real hard-line civil libertarian is going to think these are enough. And nobody whose primary worry is national security is going to think these are wise. But I think it's a good starting point for a very important national debate. And my view is very different. I mean, I think three big facts that nobody wants to talk about. One, we were in an ongoing real war, and at the moment al Qaeda is winning. This is not a comment on Obama. It's a comment on the last 12 years. They're winning. Our strategy hasn't worked. Two, we're going to deal with nuclear weapons in the near future, and that means we're risking cities. Compare 3,000 dead with the World Trade Center with 250,000 dead in Cincinnati. Three, there are Americans who are engaged as enemies and we don't have today a constitutional doctrine for being permanently at war with some of your own citizens engaged on the other side. And that's going to -- we should have a big national debate about how do we protect privacy and the nation simultaneously. BLITZER: That's what the president tried to start today.

But go ahead.

CUTTER: I don't think this was the end of the conversation, nor did the president want it to be the end of the conversation.

And, Newt, you laid out the challenges. I -- though I don't think that al Qaeda is winning, I think that we have made significant strides in breaking the back of al Qaeda. But we're going to be dealing with terrorism, as long as we're on the face of this earth.

BLITZER: They're not winning in terms of attacking U.S. targets.

CUTTER: We've been able --

BLITZER: They are making impressive gains in Syria and Iraq and a whole bunch of other places in the region, as if there is a reemergence.

CUTTER: Right. We have conquered them in some areas. They're moving elsewhere. But the back of al Qaeda over last five or six years has been broken. And we have been able, you know -- I hesitate to say this without knocking on wood. But we have been able to protect the American people at home. And through the use of some of these programs, prevent attacks.

BLITZER: You outlined some terrifying scenarios. Who is going to launch a nuclear bomb in Cincinnati?

GINGRICH: You have a whole range of people who hate us. Why would you think that a terrorist who is willing to drive a car bomb or a terrorist who is willing to walk into a mall, as they did in Nairobi, would reject the opportunity if they could get one --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: That's the question. Who has got the expertise to make a nuclear bomb --

GINGRICH: Pakistan has them. The Iranians are trying hard to get them. You're going to see continuous leakage around the world.

But my deeper point is that -- and I think this is an important national debate, and frankly, neither party wants to get into it. The Republicans, because they want to defend the Bush record, and the Democrats because they want to defend the Obama record. If you look at what's happening, for example, in Fallujah, there is a resurgence. And you look at the chairman of the Joint Chiefs -- is a very decent human being, very serious professional -- say, gee, we couldn't go after these guys in Benghazi, because technically, we're not sure they're close to al Qaeda to fit the congressional resolution. I mean, you want to cry at this kind of lawyering. We are in an active war everywhere on the planet with people who tell us pretty openly every day, we would like to destroy your civilization.

BLITZER: We're going to have both of you stand by.

We're going to continue our conversation, move on to some other subjects, as well. Newt and Stephanie are here.

Also, running for president in 2016 could be a risky move for the former Florida governor, Jeb Bush. That's because his mom doesn't want him to run. We're going to tell you what Barbara Bush is saying. We'll talk to our "Crossfire" panel about Bush, another possible 2016 contender.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Certainly a lot of times, it's wise to follow your mother's advice. But if Jeb Bush wants to run for president, he'll have to go against his mother's wishes. That's because Barbara Bush says she hopes he won't get in the race. She says her family has spent enough time in the White House.

Brian Todd is joining us now with more on what's going on.

Brian, this is not the first time we have heard from Mrs. Bush. Is this an indication, though, of how strongly she feels she doesn't want the former Florida governor to run for president?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it seems stronger than just an indication at this point. This is at least the second time Barbara Bush has said in a very public forum that she does not want Jeb Bush to run for president. Last April, in an interview with NBC's Matt Lauer, when asked if she thought he should run, Mrs. Bush said, quote, "He's by far the best qualified man, but, no, I really don't." She also said at that time, "There are a lot of great families, it's not just four families or whatever. We've had enough Bushes." This time, Mrs. Bush said something very similar, telling C-Span, quote, "I think the Kennedys, Clintons, Bushes, there are just more families than that."

Here's a clip of the interview posted last night by C-Span.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA BUSH, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: I think this is a great American country, great country. And if we can't find more than two or three families to run for high office, that's silly, because there are great governors and great eligible people to run. I would hope that someone else would run. Although, there's no question in my mind that Jeb is the best qualified person to run for president. But I hope he won't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: Now, we've contacted Jeb Bush's office for comment. They first pointed us to this tweet by Jeb Bush last night, apparently in response to his mother's comments. Quote, "What day is mother's day this year? Asking for a friend." Yeah, we all ask these questions just for a friend, right? Jeb Bush's office also pointed us to the comments he made in November in an interview when he was asked about Barbara Bush's comments to NBC. At that time, Jeb Bush said, quote, "I love my mom and I listen to my mom, but I don't always agree with her."

Of course, Jeb Bush has not made up his mind yet whether to run for president in 2016. But some analysts, of course, Wolf, are now saying Chris Christie's Bridgegate scandal could open that door more for Jeb Bush.

BLITZER: It might, indeed.

Brian, thanks very much.

Stephanie and Newt are still with us.

You helped Barack Obama get elected twice. He's a pretty formidable candidate, Jeb Bush.

CUTTER: He is.

BLITZER: Popular in Florida, speaks Spanish, moderate Republican conservative --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Yeah, people like him.

CUTTER: They do. I think that he would be a serious candidate. From a Democratic perspective, we would have to take him very seriously. A Clinton-Bush match-up would be a historical match-up.

BLITZER: That would generate a lot of excitement.

CUTTER: But it does make me laugh --

(LAUGHTER)

-- because I have a very similar mother to Barbara Bush, who will tell you exactly what she thinks you should be doing with your life.

BLITZER: Do you always listen to what she tells you?

CUTTER: No, I don't. But I do appreciate what Jeb is going through.

BLITZER: You know Jeb well. What do you think?

GINGRICH: I think listen and obey are two different words.

(LAUGHTER)

Second, I think Jeb is probably the best politician in the Bush family. Although George P., as he comes along --

BLITZER: The son.

GINGRICH: -- running for railroad commissioner in Texas, may well grow into far and away the best -- most interesting of the family. But imagine a normal candidate. You're sit south there, trying to figure out how to raise the money, how to get credible. And Jeb's mother says something and gets two days of national media, reminding you of who Jeb Bush is, and you're sitting here thinking, give me a break.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, I think he is very formidable and would be one of the major contenders if he decided to run.

BLITZER: Is Hillary Clinton, as "Time" magazine is suggesting on the new cover, unstoppable?

CUTTER: Is she unstoppable as a Democratic nominee for president?

BLITZER: As potentially become the Democratic candidate.

CUTTER: No. As -- we don't know. It is -- I know we all here are talking about 2016, every single day. The nation is not. There is a long time between now and when people start making that decision.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: They've got to decide by the end of this year. If they're serious, they've -- this year, they've got to start --

(CROSSTALK)

CUTTER: Voters don't need to decide. And I think that obviously she would be extremely formidable. She is enormously popular in the Democratic Party. But I think it's -- it's to her benefit and to the benefit of the party for her to -- to have some primary challenger. And I don't know who that is. But I think she will emerge as a stronger candidate. Is she likely to be the Democratic nominee if she runs? Absolutely. But we shouldn't talk in absolutes right now, because there is a long time between now and when those decisions --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You agree she would likely be the Democratic nominee?

GINGRICH: I spent up to April of 2008 saying publicly I thought Hillary would win. And the achievement of the Obama campaign is extraordinary. So I'm happy to say, she is the front runner. I will never again say that anyone --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: What about Benghazi? Does that hurt her?

GINGRICH: A little bit. But, look, her problems are going to come later on when she has got to make policy decisions about how close she is to Obama, how different is she from Obama. Those things are very tricky. And she has not historically been very adept at that kind of --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Her book is coming out later this year. I think right after the midterm election.

CUTTER: That's true.

BLITZER: Is it going to be what Robert Gates did, sort of a tell-all book inside conversations, what the president was saying, what Biden -- or will she take more of a high road?

CUTTER: I have no idea what's going to be in that book.

BLITZER: You know her.

CUTTER: But I know it will be a best-seller.

BLITZER: You know that.

CUTTER: And I look forward to reading it. And she is a very well- known, very well-read author already. And I think she has a lot to say that's worth listening to.

BLITZER: What about Chris Christie? And I want Newt to weigh in, as well. Is he still a viable Republican presidential candidate?

CUTTER: Sure, I think he's viable. I think he's got two problems. This is going to be a never-ending investigation that could uncover other examples of his bullying and political retribution in that state. And number two, I think the other issue for him that nobody is talking about is that it's not a done deal that he's going to get through the Republican primary. There are a lot of Republican leaders and conservatives out there that don't like him. So I think that's a serious issue for him that no one is talking about.

BLITZER: What do you think?

GINGRICH: I think if the question is, is he viable, absolutely, which is different than inevitable. He's got to do two things, close to what Stephanie said. One, he's just got to discipline himself to block in an element of time and resources to live through this investigation, to manage it, to stay on top of it. And if he doesn't do that, or if it turns out there is really something there, then he's not viable. Second, I think he's really got to sort of relax a little bit. Everybody gets sucked into this 24-hour-a-day nonsense. David Brodeur (ph) wrote many years ago, "The first serious decision is Iowa or New Hampshire, and everything before that is us keeping the pages filled or the channel filled."

CUTTER: I agree with that.

GINGRICH: We're a long way from the first serious event of the 2016 --

(CROSSTALK) BLITZER: But it's fun talking about it, right?

(CROSSTALK)

GINGRICH: We're all free to talk about it.

BLITZER: We like to talk about it.

CUTTER: What else would we talk about?

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: We could talk about NSA surveillance, too.

CUTTER: Yeah, that's true.

(CROSSTALK)

GINGRICH: And that's what we're going to do tonight. I think we're going to have one of our best shows tonight.

BLITZER: Tell us who is going to be on.

GINGRICH: We're going to have Tom ridge, who is, of course, former Homeland Security. And we're going to have the chief spokesperson for the ACLU representing people who worry more about civil liberties than about security. So the contrast is going to be very vivid.

BLITZER: The ACLU national director, Laura Murphy, versus Tom Ridge in "Crossfire." You buys will be there as well. I believe it starts at 6:30 p.m. eastern after another show we call "The Situation Room."

CUTTER: Yes.

BLITZER: Hey, guys, thanks very much.

GINGRICH: Thank you.

BLITZER: No hiding her age for Michelle Obama. The first lady turns 50 today, and she seems to be having the time of her life. We're taking a closer look at our own perceptions of aging and whether Mrs. Obama is redefining the way we see it. Happy birthday, by the way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A milestone for the first lady. Michelle Obama turns 50 today and is speaking out about her next chapter.

Our digital correspondent, Kelly Wallace, is joining us from New York right now.

Kelly, the first lady certainly bringing a lot of enthusiasm to turning 50. Some other folks sort of dread that age.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. But not the first lady. I was talking to a White House official who said you can imagine years ago a first lady very quietly celebrating her 50th, not having a big celebration, and not tweeting, right, her AARP card that the first lady did today. And I think she really sees this as an opportunity to send a message about aging. In her own words, "50 is fabulous." And Wolf, if you think of other people turning 50 this year -- Sandra Bullock, Melinda Gates, Sarah Palin, Susan Rice, President Obama's national security advisor -- these are women who are doing a lot right now and expect to be doing a lot decades from now. That's a big message to send.

BLITZER: She actually sent out that AARP card, as you said. She wrote, "Excited to join Barack at the 50-plus club today." We all have these -- as we get older, we have different concepts about what it means to be 50.

WALLACE: It is. I talked to a lot of women who are approaching or have approached this milestone. One woman said, right, 50 is kind of the new 40 as we live longer and doing more. 50 doesn't mean our lives are declining and we are going down hill. For many women at 50, the kids are older and they have a second act and can do more because they have fewer responsibilities. At the same time, there are many people who say, no, no, no, we have to go a long way in our society, especially when it comes to women. Many people say, if you are single and 50 and a woman, you are out of luck. Employers want younger and younger. So we have a long way to go, many people say, before we truly as a society fully embrace 50 as fabulous.

BLITZER: She is going to have a little bit of a dance party, a birthday party --

KELLY: Oh, yes.

BLITZER: --- tomorrow night at the White House tomorrow night. Beyonce we are told will be there, probably performing for the first lady. In the invitations they sent out, she made a point to bring comfortable shoes because everyone will be dancing at that party. They will have a lot of fun.

WALLACE: Exactly. She said she will be moving, as in dance moving, at that time. She is embracing it and having a lot of fun. She has said too, Wolf, in that "People" magazine interview, she feels more confident than ever, more secure as a woman, who she is. That's something she is embracing.

BLITZER: She is a good dancer. Her husband is a good dancer and singer. There should be good entertainment there besides Beyonce. We will see what else happens at the White House.

Thanks very much, Kelly, for that.

BLITZER: Sure thing.

BLITZER: And tune in later tonight for a CNN special, "Extraordinary Journey: Michelle Obama Turns 50," at 10:00 p.m. eastern only here on CNN.

And if she is watching, happy birthday, Mrs. Obama. In the final days of Vietnam War, there was a desperate scramble to get out of Saigon. Now a new film chronicles that time and reveals an incredible story. We will meet the director when we take you to the Sundance Film Festival.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The Dow is gaining ground today as investors digest a slew of reports on corporate earnings and housing. Take a look at where it stands. It's up about 56 points. And we will continue to watch the markets.

Independent films are in the spotlight over the Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah. One film getting a lot of buzz right now, "Last Days of Vietnam." It's a remarkable story many of us have never heard before. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I borrowed a truck and I drove them to the air base. I told them, when you hear three thumps, that means hold the baby's mouths, don't breathe, don't talk, don't make any noise because we are going through the gate post.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: "Last Days of Vietnam" is a compelling look at how thousands of people were rescued in the fall of Saigon at the end of the Vietnam War.

Miguel Marquez is in Park City over at the Sundance Film Festival.

What a great assignment you have, Miguel.

(LAUGHTER)

And you spoke to Rory Kennedy, who made the film. What struck you the most about this story?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is an amazing story. I should note for the record, we are in the CNN Films lounge. This is the hottest ticket in town. Famous people like right there. All powerful. People like that in the CNN Films lounge.

Rory Kennedy has been here five times with films. This film has unbelievable access to video and footage of the escape from Vietnam in the final days. The last 24 hours of it is like a countdown and a thriller. She talked about the film a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RORY KENNEDY, DIRECTOR: This story, the story I told, really hasn't been told before which is a remarkable thing given it was the final days of the Vietnam War. We left the country very quickly. Because of that, the U.S. policy was to just get the Americans out and to leave all the Vietnamese behind who had helped us and had worked with us and collaborated with us. Our story is about the Americans on the ground, who risked their lives going against U.S. policy to do everything it could to save the Vietnamese. It's extraordinarily heroic, their acts they committed during the final days.

MARQUEZ: We are familiar with the iconic images. Watching some of the video is harrowing. Tens of thousands of people getting out of that country.

KENNEDY: Yes. They did it through helicopters and makeshift operations that were underground. One of the stories that we tell is the story of the "USS Kirk" that single-handedly, with the help of Richard Armitage and Kim Doe (ph), saved 32,000 people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: It is amazing. I was able to meet Captain Kim Doe (ph) a short time ago. He is with her at Sundance. She has been here five times. This is his first time. He is blown away by the excitement and this film opening up on Sunday night here.

150,000 Vietnamese got out in the last few days of the war, and many of them got out with thanks to Americans who went against their own orders and got them out anyway. It's an amazing film. So many great films here at Sundance. That is just one of them.

BLITZER: That what you do? You sit around and watch movies? That's a good assignment.

MARQUEZ: It's a terrible assignment. Oh, the horror, Wolf, the horror.

Look, it's a lot of films. I am trying to watch as many documents as possible. The tough part for the media, it's hard to get into the films because it's so packed. All the filmmakers wanting to see them as well. It's hard to get to the premiers, but we can get some of them online or clips. I read constantly about them.

Bit it is fascinating to be here. It is a massive undertaking this festival. This town goes through 1700, this sleepy, charming mountain town, to 47,000 people pouring in over this weekend and into next week for this film festival, transforming it into Hollywood in the mountains. Amazing. Wolf?

BLITZER: You mentioned, Brian Stelter, the new host of "Reliable Sources." He will be broadcasting his program from Sundance this Sunday morning at 11:00 a.m. eastern. There he is. He is waving to all of us. He has a good show. We will look forward to that. We look forward to more of your reports.

Guys, thanks very much.

That's it for me. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.