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Obama Announces Surveillance Reports; California In A Drought Emergency; Colby Fire Burns 1,700 Acres, Destroys Five Homes; Investigation Into Dead Georgia Teen's Missing Organs Yields Few Answers; Texas Reporter Wrote About "Dallas Buyers Club"

Aired January 17, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Wolf, thank you. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Top of the hour. Great to be with you on this Friday. So, the president has offered his answer today not only to us Americans, but to people all-around the world who have rightly come to fear that the U.S. government knows way too much about us and can learn even more if it wants to, though, he didn't quite say it.

The president's hand was forced, of course, by the shocking revelations of Edward Snowden, a fugitive now in Russia who frankly spilled the beans on the government among other things revealing that when you make a phone call, chances are very, very good it goes straight into the records of the super secret National Security Agency.

So a big moment this morning over at the Justice Department, the president is laying out changes designed to ensure that mass surveillance only gets used against the bad guys, the terrorists and the like. Not against us. The president also signaled that he personally shares our worries that yes, he said he gets it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I would not be where I am today were it not for the courage of dissidents like Dr. King who were spied upon by their own government. As president, a president who looks at intelligence every morning, I also can't help, but be reminded that America must be vigilant in the face of threats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK, so let's run through this together. This is a quick look at what the president says he wants to do. Number one, he said if the government wants to check the records it collects, it's going to have to ask that secret intelligence court, which the president wants to bolster with the privacy advocate. He also wants to move those records out of the government's hands while making sure they are still accessible to U.S. law enforcement and this last one here, a huge deal.

He said he wants to extend privacy rights enjoyed by U.S. citizens to everyone around the globe especially heads of states who are frankly easy pickings for U.S. surveillance and are none too thrilled about that. Angela Merkel, her cell phone, for example.

David Sirota is with me now and Ben Ferguson as well. David Sirota, syndicated columnist and radio host and Ben Ferguson, CNN political commentator. Gentlemen, welcome back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Afternoon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: David Sirota, to you first. Listening to the president today, are you satisfied with what the president laid out in terms of cherishing our privacy rights?

DAVID SIROTA, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: I think it's a good thing that the president is actually speaking about this. I think a lot of the rhetoric that he put out there is important. It's important for people to hear that these are real concerns about privacy and about civil liberties. I think we have Edward Snowden the whistle blower to thank for that. I mean, the thing that was missing among other things --

BALDWIN: You have been critical of this, I was curious if you feel better.

SIROTA: Well, I mean, look, I think there needs to be acknowledgment, first and foremost, that we are having the debate that the president said is valuable because of the whistle blower, Edward Snowden, who brought out the information that's prompted the debate. So there was no discussion of what happens to Edward Snowden.

There was also on a policy level, I was troubled by the fact that while the president is saying some nice rhetoric, there is going to be no end to metadata collection and no end to mass surveillance. There is going to be some more protections. That's definitely a good thing, but the fundamental structure of the mass spying system is preserved.

BALDWIN: Ben Ferguson, if I heard the president right today, he was also saying listen, I'm not necessarily the bad guy here. He said I'm not the threat. The threat comes from terrorists. I hear you laughing, but terrorists like guys like Edward Snowden who do spill state secrets. Snowden has not reacted himself. He still as we mentioned is hiding out in Russia. But we did get this, let me play this. This is the reaction we got from like-minded Julian Assange of Wikileaks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN ASSANGE, WIKILEAKS FOUNDER: It's clear that the president would not be speaking today were it not for the actions of Edward Snowden and whistle blowers before him (inaudible) Drake and (inaudible). The National Security whistle blowers have forced this debate. This president as being dragged, kicking and screaming to today's address. He has been reluctant to make any concrete reforms.

And unfortunately today, we also see a very few concrete reforms. What we see is kicking off the ball into the Congressional grass and kicking it off into panels of lawyers that he will instruct to report back at some stage in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I don't know about the president kicking and screaming to do this today, Ben Ferguson, but I think it is pretty clear when you talk to a lot of people that perhaps he would not be talking today and addressing these changes had it not been for Edward Snowden, no?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, and he didn't want to have this discussion at all, if you look at not only when he was elected, but also when he was re-elected, he attacked these policies. He said these policies were un-American. He said these policies of spying on Americans had gone too far. The Bush rogue administration was these extremists that didn't care about the constitution and now the same policies that he attacked, not only is he using them. He is actually bolstered them and expanded them. So he didn't want to be there today.

BALDWIN: Do you think he was kicking and screaming?

FERGUSON: I feel bad for him. He worked out and said these are awful and he became president and saw real threats. He said holy cow. Not only do we need these things, but need to make them bigger. The problem is his own party doesn't like this so he is stuck in this tough situation.

So today, what did he really say? He didn't really change that much. The court is going to review this every -- you know, several months here. When was the last time they ever said no? I mean, can you find that because they don't say no very often.

BALDWIN: We are going to talk to Jeff Toobin about the FISA court. I know he has had some strong words about this court in the past and we are talking watch dogs, but I know there are questions about who watches the watch dogs and here's my other question because I don't know if this is concerns among Americans, but also to the point the president made, you know, saying essentially let's extent privacy rights to people around the globe so they shouldn't be worried that the U.S. will be snooping on them.

David Sirota, do you think that quells their worries, i.e., the Angela Merkels of the world as well, leaders and our friends?

SIROTA: No, I don't think it probably quells their worries at all. I mean, I think that it's good that the United States is having that discussion and that the head of the United States government is making that kind of statement. I don't think it reassures them and I want to go back to a point that Ben made about safety. I mean, let's have an honest discussion about safety. That's what the president hasn't had yet.

There was a lot of talk about national security, but what we know is that senators who evaluated classified information. That the New America Foundation put out a study of 225 terrorism cases. There has been story after story after story where there is no evidence that the programs that were disclosed by Snowden have stopped any terrorism. BALDWIN: Was today not right for the administration. This is a super secret program and this was a very public way for the president to address this, David Sirota?

SIROTA: Well, look, again, I certainly think it's good that the president of the United States is saying the rhetoric that he is putting out there.

BALDWIN: I hear the word rhetoric you keep using.

SIROTA: It's rhetoric. It's not necessarily a policy change. I mean, the question really is and I think it is being answered right now. Is the president putting out nice rhetoric that sounds like civil liberties protections in order to essentially cement and solidify the national security apparatus and mass spying.

BALDWIN: Go ahead Ben, hop in.

FERGUSON: Here's the issue. If we actually have successes with this data, you don't get to go out there and celebrate the successes because, one, it was a secret program and two, if you do actually have a success in thwarting an attack, you don't also have the luxury of going out there and letting the bad guys know and you thwarted it, but also you are following them because of the data you use. So it's a very unrealistic expectation for anyone to imply that the president should be able to come out there and show us proof.

SIROTA: The president's own NSA reform panel, which had access to all of that information, they said there is no evidence whatsoever to say that the programs that were disclosed have thwarted terrorism or will thwart terrorism.

BALDWIN: The final word. We got to go.

FERGUSON: Hold on. You can't be naive enough to think that every piece of information that they are using that is supposed to be top secret when it is successful. They are going to come out and grandstand on it? That's not how the intelligence community has ever worked nor should it work that way. So the president of the United States of America is in a tough spot here.

He wants to act like he is against these programs, but he understands how vitally important they are and this whole idea they said, you know, we are not going to spy on leaders. I hope we spy on leaders if we think they are doing something that is shady. To say out there we are no longer going to do this. What if there is leader that in fact we do need information on.

From America's interests, we should be looking for that information because they are spying on us and all these other leaders, their countries are spying on America too. That's how the game works.

BALDWIN: OK, as journalists, we will not leave it there. We are not finished with this. David Sirota and Ben Ferguson, for now, thank you. Now to some new developments today in the case of that autistic teenager who went missing back in October in New York City. That was the voice of Vanessa Fontaine. Police using this mother's voice in these search vans hoping that her autistic son who cannot communicate verbally would recognize it and go home.

But now his mother has gotten some frightening news. Police discovered body parts next to the East River in Queens last night and they believe it may be that of her son. CNN's Margaret Conley is in New York with more on this. Margaret, tell me as best you can what exactly did police find and why did they think this could belong to this teenager?

MARGARET CONLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we are standing up river from the last place that Avante Quendo was actually seen. You can see there is a search operation going on behind us. We got a couple of big boats out there scouring the water. We have helicopters above us and to the left on the side of the bank, you can see a small black boat.

About an hour ago, a bunch of scuba divers boarded that and we are searching the water. They have been make trips back and forth. That's also a little bit to the left of that area. The bank of where last night they found body parts and they found shoes that Avante's lawyer says were size 5 1/2 and they were Air Jordans, which was the same shoes that he was last seen wearing.

And they also said that they found jeans that were a size 16, which is also a match to what Avante was last seen wearing. Now the body parts that were found in the water, they have been taken to the medical examiner's office. His lawyer has been down here all morning and we are just waiting to hear back to see what those results will be.

BALDWIN: And to think I imagine given what they found, this mother is involved in potentially identifying this, yes?

CONLEY: Yes, that's right. This morning, you know, the attorney said he talked to Vanessa about 2:00 this morning that's when she got the call. It was a brief call and then this morning she was going to head over to police and provide her DNA samples. Now Avante's father has already provided his DNA samples and they are on file. So the police say it could be four to five days before we get any results.

BALDWIN: OK, Margaret Conley for us in New York, thank you very much.

Coming up next, we are learning a lot more about that cyber hack impacting some 110 million target customers. Here's the deal today. This could all be linked to Russia and the U.S. government is warning companies across the country to be on high alert. We will talk live to what you call these people ethical hackers. I know it sounds like an oxymoron, but he is an ethical hacker just to see how big this could actually get.

Ahead, exclusive new details in the Kendrick Johnson case. The teenager's body was found rolled up in that gym mat a year ago, his organs removed and replaced with newspapers. Now that part of the investigation is complete. What we learned, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The entire state of California is in drought emergency, needs to preserve its water. This is the word from the Governor Jerry Brown making that declaration earlier today. He said California is in the midst of the driest year on record. So he asked all citizens to conserve 20 percent of its water use. State reservoirs are critically low and some have begun water rationing measures because of this.

Keep in mind, the context of this, the nearly 1,200 firefighters trying to contain what you are looking at here. This is the Colby fire. The San Gabriel Mountains, these flames spread Thursday morning from a camp fire. Quickly spread to five homes gone. Nearly 2,000 acres burned. Authorities arrested and charged three men they say are responsible. They are being held on $500,000 bail.

CNN's Casey Wian Back out there today for us along the fire lines. Casey, there hasn't been a fire in the Glen Dora Foothills since the late 60s. So there is a lot of dry brush. How are the firefighters handling everything?

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, they had a remarkable degree of success. Continuing to use air drops as their main weapon to fight this fire, both fixed wing aircraft and helicopter and we saw that being done yesterday. We've seen that continue all morning long. Also as they begin to get this fire more under control, crews are going around on foot using chain saws and other cutting devices to clear brush from around buildings that don't have roads around them or natural firebreaks to make sure that the embers from the fires and the hot spots continue to persist and don't spark something else up.

That also is going on behind me over my right shoulder. You can see the smoky hillside. Just a half hour ago, there was a flare up on that hillside, it was on fire. We saw a line of firefighters guarding this wash here to make sure that none of the flames from that hillside jumped over the road into the wash and into this residential community right here that still remains under an evacuation order so much better picture though today than there was yesterday, but still pockets of concern for these firefighters.

BALDWIN: Yes, I am looking at smoke over one shoulder and homes over the other. I'm reminded of our conversation yesterday, you are in a different town talking to a family and I have this visual of all of them holding hands and praying and didn't want to leave their home. Are people heeding those evacuation warnings?

WIAN: Most people have heeded those evacuation warnings. You are starting to see people trickle back into their neighborhoods. This morning firefighters and police allowed some residents to walk back into their neighborhoods. They don't allow cars back into the neighborhoods yet because fire vehicles still need access to do their job.

So that's what residents are actually waiting for, the final straw here when they actually can get their vehicles and their possessions that they removed out of some of these homes back into their neighborhoods. They will know that at least it's safe for now, but who knows down the road as long as these drought conditions continue. They will be on heavy watch here for some time in Southern California -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Who knows this right? Casey Wian is in Southern California. Casey will stay in close contact. Thank you.

Now to exclusive developments in the Kendrick Johnson case. This Georgia teenager was found dead in this high school gym a little more than a year ago now and a state investigation into who removed the dead teenager's organs from his body and they replaced them with newspapers ended up with a big question mark.

We will get to that here in just a moment, but first let me give you a look at the mysterious case and now federal authorities were involved. Here is CNN's Victor Blackwell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What happened to this teenage boy walking through this school gym? He's captured here on surveillance camera then disappears until --

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: There's a dead body out here.

BLACKWELL: The 17-year-old Kendrick Johnson was found upside down in a rolled gym mat last January. Investigators say he was reaching for a shoe, got stuck and died.

LT. STRYDE JONES, LOWNDES COUNTY, GEORGIA SHERIFF'S OFFICE: We have found nothing to indicate this was anything other than just a tragic accident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could tell he was beaten.

BLACKWELL: Kendrick's parents believe the story about the shoe is a cover-up and they question why sheriff's investigators either did not collect or test potential evidence from the scene.

(on camera): You got some questions about the Kendrick Johnson case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I won't discuss that with you.

BLACKWELL: Why not, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because our case is closed.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Kendrick's body was exhumed. His parents paid for an independent autopsy and the pathologist found evidence of apparent no accidental blunt force trauma to the neck. But it's also what the pathologist did not find that shocked the family.

DR. BILL ANDERSON, PATHOLOGIST: Organs, the heart, lungs, liver, et cetera, were not with the body.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): What was in the place of the organs?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Newspaper.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): After months of protests and demands for answers, an announcement by the U.S. Department of Justice.

MICHAEL MOORE, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: I am of the opinion that a sufficient basis exists for my office to conduct a formal review of the facts and investigation surrounding the death of Kendrick Johnson.

KENNETH JOHNSON, KENDRICK JOHNSON'S FATHER: No matter whom you are, how much money your parents have, the color of your skin, everyone deserves justice, everyone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Mr. Blackwell had been all over this for a long, long time. You're sitting here with Georgia secretary of state letter as it pertains to the big question about the organs and instead the body being stuffed with newspaper.

BLACKWELL: Yes. So this letter was sent to the Johnson family and it was also given to CNN. We are the only news agency that has it. I want to separate the discussion, first the organs and then the newspaper. So just to explain where everyone is, first the Georgia Bureau of Investigations, which conducted the first autopsy said they put the organs back into Kendrick Johnson's body, closed the body and then sent it to Herrington Funeral Home who the Johnsons hire to prepare Kendrick's body for burial.

The funeral home said we never received the organs with the body, but they go a step further. They said that the organs were discarded by the GBI, Georgia Bureau of Investigation because they were destroyed through some natural process, but they've never explained what the natural process is. There was this three-month investigation after we reported in October. We now have the results of that investigation.

Let's put up just this element from the conclusion. It said, "The board exhausted all available investigative avenues at its disposal and no determination could be made whether the organs were transferred to the funeral establishment with the body." They've had this investigator who worked for the Funeral Services Board. They've had closed door meetings and discussions and after three months, no answer as to who is responsible and no action taken against Herrington Funeral Home.

BALDWIN: And then the fact that these newspapers, I remember the piece, you saw Black Friday ads on newspapers that have been stuffed in his body, and that as you've discovered is actually perfectly legal?

BLACKWELL: It is not a violation of the law.

BALDWIN: Wow. BLACKWELL: It is not a violation. You know, the funeral home has never denied doing it although we spoke to experts in mortuary sciences in the field and they've either never heard of it or they say it's not in line with standard practices. The attorney for the funeral home spoke with us and I asked him about the newspaper. He cited a 25-year-old embalming guy who suggests when the organs are absent, use sawdust or cotton.

Now they've update the guide since then. A newer version said, you know, do not use the saw dust. They eliminated that. Here's the exchange with that attorney about those suggestions. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Newspaper is not one of them.

ROY COPELAND, HERRINGTON FUNERAL HOME ATTORNEY: It is absolutely not one of them, nor is it precluded as one type of foreign substance that may be introduced into a body for purposes of building it up for public display.

BLACKWELL: So the argument is just because they didn't list it, it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be used?

COPELAND: That's a perfectly logical argument.

BLACKWELL: And is it your argument?

COPELAND: Indeed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The state said it's not a best practice to stuff a body with newspaper.

BALDWIN: Not a best practice?

BLACKWELL: But not a violation of law.

BALDWIN: Wow. Victor Blackwell --

BLACKWELL: There is one more element though, very quickly. The Funeral Services Board understands the shock value of that and they said that the board may consider regulating that in the near future. So there could be a law change here that is if the board actually takes up that as a possible consideration and change the law of what you can put inside a body in Georgia.

BALDWIN: As it pertains to Kendrick Johnson and his parents, question mark.

BLACKWELL: No answers who got rid of the organs.

BALDWIN: Keep asking, keep asking.

BLACKWELL: We certainly will. BALDWIN: Thank you very much. Now coming up next, just a heart wrenching story, a father is in jail accused of shooting and killing his daughter. He says it was a mistake and he wants to attend her funeral. The girl's mom wants him there, but now a judge is weighing in with a pretty controversial ruling. We will share that with you.

Also the movie, "The Dallas Buyer's Club" already has two Golden Globes, up for six Oscars. A movie based on the true story of an AIDS patient who works around the system to survive. Coming up next, we'll talk live with the reporter who back in the early 90s, broke the real story. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just about the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Six Oscar nominations, six, two Golden Globes already in the can, "The Dallas Buyer's Club" is the sleeper Box Office hit. It's about a Texas man stricken with AIDS who finds a questionably, lucrative way to stay alive by any means necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my patient. You are treating these people? With what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lobotomies, anything but that poison you are hocking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the neck line is a little plunging.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole purpose of this study is to determine if it's helping people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know there isn't no helping me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: This film garnered best acting and supporting actor nods for the film stars, Matthew McConaughey, who you just saw, Jared Leto. But the story would not have made it to the big screen had it not been for this one man. Journalist with the "Dallas Morning News," he found the mastermind behind this "Dallas Buyers Club." This guy named Ron Woodward.

Bill Minutaglio is joining me now. He teaches journalism at the University of Texas. Bill, congrats and welcome.

BILL MINUTAGLIO, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF AUSTIN, TEXAS: Great to be with you.

BALDWIN: So you were the one to break the story back in the early 90s. Tell me the real life version of exactly what you found.

MINUTAGLIO: There were rumors in the AIDS movement, the AIDS underground that there was a pirate, this kind of wild haired gun slinger guy named Ron Woodroof in Dallas, Texas who was the king at smuggling in underground drugs. Unapproved drugs, drugs that weren't approved by the FDA. And there were a lot of folks like him around the country, but in a lot of ways no one exactly Ron.

There were other people trying to bring in these medicines that were unapproved they thought could help people who were dying and desperate for any relief and couldn't go to the government to get these drugs approved. Ron had taken it to another level. He was a smuggler. He was a drug smuggler, but he was really a medicine smuggler and took more risks than anybody else.

BALDWIN: He takes risks. He is committing crimes. He is spilling his secrets to you. You then in turn as a good journalist does you write this profile for the Sunday paper and then, you know, flash forward not too far after that, the screenwriter here, Craig Borton, drives to Dallas, finds Ron. When did you actually realize this was becoming a movie?

MINUTAGLIO: I suppose at the time that the screen writer had contacted me. I heard from some folks in Los Angeles, I guess, they had read the story and thought it would make a good screen play and probably made for information about Ron and his world. I talked to Ron in the late summer of 1992. I don't know that we got to be friends, but I talked to him quite a bit. It was a very lengthy magazine story and he was initially very wary.

But he eventually welcomed me in and I think what I realized in retrospect was that he was dying. He passed away very shortly after my story appeared and he was alternatively very angry but material. He was accusatory. He was defensive. At some level, he was also just completely liberated I think by the fact that he was facing his mortality.

He said I think to me, you know, quietly, look, I'm going to tell the story. I'm not going to live much longer and I think it's important that people know that sometimes it's worth taking these principled risks even doing something illegal.

BALDWIN: Well, it's not quite anymore. Now here you have Matthew McConaughey playing Ron and drop some 40 pounds for this role and does a stunning job. You knew Ron. How did he do?

MINUTAGLIO: Well, the Ron that I knew was not exactly like the Ron that I have seen in the movie to be honest with you. When I met Ron, he was a suit and tie guy. He was actually suggesting that he was running a business. He was again kind of open. When you went to visit his operation, it was like going to a pharmacy. There were bottles with strange labels and things you wouldn't know follows you were a pharmacist.

It had the feeling of a strip shopping center vitamin business. He was also I think in some parts of the movie portrayed as homophobic. Many of the customers were gay. There were a lot of folks in the community in Dallas who felt that Ron might be gay himself or bisexual. That I don't know. I often asked Ron he had alluded to having a girlfriend. I wanted to interview her and he had never brought her forward. Those issues aside, my sense was that the filmmakers wanted to create a lesson and enduring.

BALDWIN: Which was what, just briefly.

MINUTAGLIO: Well, that it's worth standing up again for government and against government rules that simply don't help the American people.

BALDWIN: It has clearly resonated with audiences across the country. We'll be watching the Oscars. Will you be watching?

MINUTAGLIO: I will absolutely be watching.

BALDWIN: Bill Minutaglio, thank you so much. Coming up next, up to 110 million target customers hacked. The Department of Homeland Security now warning stores across the country, we are just learning the cyber attack connections could be linked to Russia. We will talk to an expert about exactly how big this can get and how worried you should really be. Stay here.