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Christie Raising Cash, Ignoring Critics; DC's Hottest Ticket: First Lady's Party; Biker Beating Victim to Sue NYC; Father Forbidden from Daughter's Funeral; Funeral for Chad Oulson; George Takei, Husband Talk about Newest Project
Aired January 18, 2014 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hello, and welcome, I'm Martin Savidge. Nice to be with you.
New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is trying to keep it positive in Florida this weekend. He's the headliner at some fund-raising events today and tomorrow, campaigning for fellow Republican Governor Rick Scott. But he's got plenty of political trouble back home in New Jersey. CNN's Tory Dunnan is in Florida. Tory, is Christie's bridge scandal being mentioned at all this weekend?
TORY DUNNAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Martin, I have to tell you, these events are totally closed off from the media. They're close door. You can't get really anywhere near them. So they're not coming out and talking to reporters. But we are talking to people who are inside these fund-raising events. The one here in Orlando this morning was a fund-raiser for Florida Governor Rick Scott, and actually spoke with one woman who was inside about what was and wasn't said, and here is her response to some of my questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUNNAN: What was the reaction in there to Governor Christie?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Excellent.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It was great.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Excellent.
DUNNAN: What did he say?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He talked about Governor Scott and how good he is.
DUNNAN: Did anything about the scandal come up?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: What do you think?
DUNNAN: Elaborate.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: What do you think? Yes or no? What do you think?
DUNNAN: Yes, what did he say?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He said, no, nothing, zero, he was all for Scott. Scott is going to win.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yes, it did come up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DUNNAN: All right. So it looks like according to that woman, nothing was said about the scandal in that first fund-raiser here in Orlando, but, Martin, I have to point out, that was one of only three taking place today. The other one in Palm Beach at a private home. That was a fund-raiser for the Republican Governors Association, and then one's happening a little bit later on tonight in the Fort Lauderdale area. That's another fund-raiser for Rick Scott. So these are all opportunities for fellow Republicans to potentially come face-to-face with Governor Christie. Maybe they'll ask him questions, maybe he'll respond. But again, these are closed-door events.
SAVIDGE: Right. All right. Well, tell us about tomorrow, Chris Christie will be at the -- an a-list donors event. So who's going to be there?
DUNNAN: Tomorrow is going to be huge, and this is really a big event, because it's really being referred to as a donor-outreach event. What that means is there are going to be people there at this house in North Palm Beach, a home belonging to the co-founder of Home Depot. He's also a billionaire. His name is Ken Langone, and this is all happening at his house. So, there's going to be big money there. But this is not a fund-raising event. It's an opportunity for Governor Christie to meet with possible donors, say, if he decides to run in 2016.
Martin, I know that's far off, but that's what the talk is about this event happening on Sunday, and actually, the guy who's hosting this has talked to CNN, and he said that interest has even gone up since this scandal, basically came out in the public, because people are calling him and saying, "hey, we like the way that he's dealt with this, he's come out into the open," and they say they also like the way that he's been apologetic about it and embarrassed, as well. But we'll see what happens tomorrow night. They're expecting a lot of people there.
SAVIDGE: It's interesting. All right, Tory Dunnan, thanks very much, from Orlando.
Chris Christie's Florida trip follows days, of course, of heavy media coverage, putting him on the defensive in the national spotlight. So let's talk about Christie's political future with two political analysts. Marc Lamont Hill in Philadelphia, Ben Ferguson joins us from Dallas. Good to see you both. Let me show you this poll --
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to see you.
SAVIDGE: I'll show a poll first. This is the NBC/Marist survey, and finds it almost seven in 10 Americans say that the bridge controversy has not changed their opinion of Christie. So, Mark, this thing is just going to be over now? Is it done for Christie?
It's not done in any sense of the word. First of all, seven in 10 people saying that they feel the same way about him is cool if everyone likes you, but if tons of people thinks you're a bull in the China shop before the crisis, you're still stuck in the same place. Not to mention those other three in ten. But this thing is far from over because more information is going to come out. More investigations, more interviews are going to happen. And at some point, a smoking gun could emerge. And if it does, Chris Christie's career as a presidential candidate is done.
SAVIDGE: Ben, I know you're chomping at the bit. Go ahead.
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I'm loving how Democrats are playing this, because this -- the governor came out. He said he didn't know anything. Two thousand documents got released. Not one smoking gun, as Marc just called it, and they're hoping -- they want it so bad -- that there's a smoking gun, but as of now, there is not. He fired people, which showed leadership. He apologized, which is exactly what true leaders do when there is something wrong. And he got rid of the people around him that caused the controversy.
So I think Democrats are actually at the point now where they're starting to overplay this. They want it so bad, they want to destroy Christie so bad, that I think voters are now starting to notice that, that this is really not about was he involved. It's this, "I want him, I want Chris Christie to go down, and I want to take him down, I want to watch his whole career just be blown to, you know, the smithereens, and if they're not careful, it may be a big backfire all over traffic.
SAVIDGE: All right. Well, I'll ask you bit then just a minute, I want to go back to this Marist poll that also showed something else, that, in fact, Chris Christie was losing some ground if there were a hypothetical presidential match-up between Hillary Clinton. And I'm wondering, is that suggesting of perhaps a problem? And of course, still, there's a lot more to come, Marc, right?
HILL: Well, there is a lot more to come, whether there's any more evidence or not, there's certainly going to be more conversation about Chris Christie, and that's going to be problematic. It's something he's going to have to respond to. As opposed to say Hillary Clinton, who has a fairly clear pathway to the nomination, Chris Christie is going to have to compete with fellow Republicans who are going to use this to beat him up with, so that he doesn't make it to the national stage. That's going to be a key challenge for him. And, also, the fact that his poll numbers are dropping in relation to Hillary Clinton is because, as it becomes more of a national name, people are making decisions about who they like, and this may be that people don't like Chris Christie as much as they thought he did.
FERGUSON: All right. This is the fun part, because we already know that, Mark, you're not, and Democrats are not, going to vote for Chris Christie. But Chris Christie being blunt as he is is exactly what got him to where he is today. I mean, if you look at the poll numbers, anytime there's an issue around someone -- whether it be ObamaCare saying you keep your doctor, the president's approval ratings went down. When the government was shut down, the Republicans got blamed for that. What happened? The approval ratings went down, and they've come back up.
So, this is part of that. But to act as if this is truly going to have any impact on the presidential election, 2016, I think is really laughable, if there is not involvement from the government, which we don't see there being any involvement from him at the end of the day. And the other thing is the Republicans are smart enough in the primary to not attack Chris Christie for something that looks like he was not involved in. So you don't have to worry about that in a primary if you're Chris Christie.
HILL: They're not going to attack him for that Ben.
FERGUSON: People on your own team are not going to be dumb enough to do that.
SAVIDGE: Marc, let me ask you this --
HILL: They're not going to attack him for --
SAVIDGE: Let me ask you this. We've already talked about the danger of the Democrats overreaching here. Ben brought that up. And it could be a valid point here, especially if they continue to go after Christie on this.
HILL: Absolutely.
SAVIDGE: Are you worried about that?
HILL: I'm not worried about that, because there are two conversations happening at the same time. One is, did he know about the bridge scandal? And, again, we have no reason to say, "yes," yet, but what we also have is a conversation about Chris Christie's managerial style which is now being spotlighted. Whether or not he knew that, or not, we have a question about whether or not there's a culture of vindictive behavior, whether there's a culture of intimidation, whether there's a culture of bullying in that place.
Why would an employee think that it's OK to do that? Those are questions that will be constantly raised. And so, no, I don't expect Rand Paul to stand up there, or Marco Rubio or you know what to say, you know, he contributed to a bridge scandal. But they may say, this is the guy you want in charge.
SAVIDGE: Ben, let me ask you, do you really think that Governor Chris Christie, if he announces his candidacy, is really the candidate of choice for the vast majority of conservative Republicans? In other words, why make so much about this if he really hasn't got a chance?
FERGUSON: Look, I think he is based on name recognition overall. Probably the front-runner right now.
SAVIDGE: But it's way early, you know that. FERGUSON: -- easier path -- well, right, but what I'm saying is, I think it would be easier for Chris Christie to win the general election if he can make it through the primary. It is going to be a tight battle for the primary --
SAVIDGE: That's the case for anybody.
FERGUSON: -- a lot of conservatives -- well, yes, but I'm saying this, there's a lot of conservatives that are afraid that he is not conservative enough to win a primary in the south and on super Tuesday, and those things. But I don't think any of this traffic will have any bearing on any conservative voter when it comes to primary, whether they're looking at Rick Santorum or they're looking at Huckabee or they're looking at Rand Paul, or they're looking at any of this people out there that may jump in here.
HILL: You just picked the three most extreme -- you just picked -- you just picked the three most extreme candidates, and we've seen in the past, through John McCain and Mitt Romney, that that's not necessarily who Republicans want to elect in the primary. I mean, it's a whole different ball game. But the bigger question here is not just who do Republican primary voters like, because you're right, I'm not a Republican primary voters, it's what calculus that they make in the poll.
Oftentimes, they say, just like they said in 2000, I don't like Mitt Romney -- or I don't like John McCain better than Mike Huckabee or Mitt Romney, however, I think McCain has a best chance of winning. Again, they said, Mitt Romney, we don't like Mitt Romney, we might like Rick Santorum but Santorum can't win. If Republican voters love Chris Christie but think that this Bridgegate is going to be an issue for democratic voters, for swing voters, for independent voters, they may make a different decision. Not because they care about the bridge, it doesn't matter whether they care about it. It's whether democratic voters will care about it in the general election.
SAVIDGE: Gentlemen, I have to end it there. Look, I thank you very much, and I know this is not the last time will talk about Chris Christie, so let's save a little for another time. Thank you, both, for joining us.
HILL: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: I also noted neither one of you has a tuxedo one, which means, of course, you are not going to the White House for the First Lady's birthday party, which is happening this evening. And that brings us, of course, to the next story, which is the fact that we have one of the biggest parties that's taking place in Washington tonight. CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is at the White House where she's been trying to crack the secret of the exclusive guest list. We already know that Marc and Ben are not going to be there, Sunlen. Any luck in finding out who will be there?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is really top secret information at this point, Martin. It has been such a tight-lipped around this guest list. What we do know is once the sun starts going down here is when those dancing shoes will start to come out. I want to show you the invitation here, because there are a few specifics. First of all, the party starts this evening at 9:00. There'll be snacks and sips, dancing and dessert, and specifically dance attire was requested by the White House. And let me just give you a little indication of how big this party's going to be, how much is going to take over the White House. It's going to be -- open up the entire state floor.
That's the first floor, this ground level, of the White House as you can see behind me. So guests will be able to move freely between the East Room, into the red, blue, and green rooms, and into the state dining room. Now, we've been told that there will be a House band set up, and there'll be some special performances and celebrity surprises throughout the evening. So I know everyone is looking forward to finding out just who those people are, because we've heard so much speculation. But in addition to the celebrities, people say this party really is about Michelle Obama's friends. We've been told that there is a big contingent of her Chicago friends coming out for the party tonight, and beyond that, everyone is guessing who else has the hottest ticket in town.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SALLY QUINN, COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: They're keeping it very much under wraps. Everybody's speculating about who's going to be there and who's not going to be there, and talking about the fact that they've said eat first. I suspect that there's going to be plenty of food knowing the Obamas and knowing the White House. So I don't think that's going to be an issue. But you know, this is going to be a party of her friends. This is not official Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY: And we have been told it is a very small and select group on that guest list, but small by White House standards, about 200 to 300 people here tonight, Martin, and we'll be watching as people go in and talking to them on the way out, hearing all of the little fun tidbits about that party tonight.
SAVIDGE: Normally, we'd, of course, be monitoring people's Facebook pages, but apparently we're not going to see anything out there, are we?
SERFATY: The White House, specifically on the invitation, interestingly enough, said no photography, no cameras allowed. We'll see if we can get our hands on any photos.
SAVIDGE: All right, please do. Love to see them, and the message to First Lady, if she can send a few, we'd like them. Thanks very much.
A-list stars are dressed to impress nor another event tonight. The Screen Actors Guild Awards. Live pictures now, you're taking the view for outside the shrine auditorium in Los Angeles. The show begins about three hours from now and it could give us a hint about who will win the academy awards, which are slated for March 2nd. You can see all the red carpet fashions on CNN at about 90 minutes, that's at 6:E0 Eastern Time.
Coming up, Daniel Ellsberg, he's a whistleblower once called the most dangerous man in America for his role in 1971 "Pentagon Papers" leak. Hearing what he has to say about President Obama's reform of our spy programs.
Plus, polls show that Bridget having little affect -- that's Bridgegate, sorry, having little effect on the opinions about Christie. So, what does it say about his brand and maybe his future? We'll talk to an expert on that. But first, one of our favorite Chris Christie moments of the week brought to us by none other than Jimmy Fallon and the boss, Bruce Springsteen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: President Obama's big speech unveiling proposed changes to the NSA spying programs will affect your privacy. Every phone call that every American makes will continue to be logged for the number dialed and the length for that call. The NSA will keep the records for now, but access will be tightened. Earlier, I spoke with Daniel Ellsberg, he's the man who leaked the classified pentagon papers about President Obama's plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL ELLSBERG, AUTHOR, "SECRETS: A MEMOIR OF VIETNAM AND THE PENTAGON PAPERS": The president was not even band-aids or aspirin for the Fourth Amendment, which is near death. It was sugar pills, basically placebos. The mass suspicion less spying on the American people should not just be limited which he has pretended to do. It should be ended. I would say that when it comes to protecting, defending, supporting, the Fourth Amendment to the constitution and the First Amendment, Edward Snowden has done more than any member of Congress, any official in the United States, going up to the president himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: That was Daniel Ellsberg, the man who leaked the Pentagon papers decades ago.
Coming up next hour, a very different voice. We'll ask tech pioneer John McAfee about Obama's NSA reforms, plus we'll talk to McAfee about his time on the run in Central America.
The Target data breach has affected millions of shoppers and the target brand has taken a pretty big hit in the public eye. So let's talk about it with Martha Pease, she is a strategic marketing consultant and CEO of DemandWorks.com. Martha, good to see you. Thank you for joining us.
MARTHA PEASE, STRATEGIC MARKETING CONSULTANT: Good to see you.
SAVIDGE: Before we begin with Target, I wanted to get your quick take on Chris Christie, because that's obviously a big political brand, and you talked about it last week. As a brand expert, how do you think he's handled things so far?
PEASE: Well, Governor Christie this week did a lot to regain positive momentum behind his brand, his somewhat tarnished brand. He, you know, took a position again in terms of taking control of his agenda for the state. He changed the conversation back to really being one about governing. He took a slightly higher profile with going to Florida. He apologized. He made a real emotional connection, I think, with people this week, and those are all actions that really play to his core strength and his brand. So I think he made progress this week.
SAVIDGE: And in talking about that brand -- I mean, there was a poll that had come out and said that, actually, most Americans did not feel that their opinion had changed. And does that really tell you how strong his brand is?
PEASE: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, he came into this scandal -- or this crisis, or whatever label you want to put to it -- he came into it with a very strong brand and a lot of goodwill. And a real strong aspirational element to his brand. People identify with him. But I have to say that going forward, I would look very closely at some under lying indicators of brand health in terms of Governor Christie's brand. One, certainly, the subpoenas and what will result from that in terms of his staff and any connection that he might have had to the scandal, have major implications for his brand.
I think, also, the theoretical presidential poll raise -- raise poll that came out this week that showed Hillary Clinton really gaining double digits now ahead of -- ahead of Governor Christie in a presidential race, 13 percent versus three percent a month ago -- is a number that's going not in the best direction for Governor Christie. And I was interested to see, also, there's a likability factor associated with brands.
If somebody likes my brand or my product or my politician, they're invested in that person being successful, so likability is an important measure of brand health. And Governor Christie's likability came down in the past week, according to one poll, it's quite significantly, in fact. Almost 24 percent. So those are trends that I would keep an eye on in terms of overall brand health for Governor Christie, and making sure that he continues to push hard against -- on the positive, to counteract any declines.
SAVIDGE: Let me bring in Target before we run too far out of time. Target, of course, is the company now that's facing a lot of backlash. How much trouble do you see Target really being in?
PEASE: I think Target's got a big challenge on their hand. It's an incredibly difficult situation that they're in. I have no doubt that they're doing the best that they can. Their customers, though, are reacting on both a practical and an emotional level. Practically, they've got to figure out how to remediate the credit card situations that many of them find themselves in. But, you know, for people -- for their customers, people don't think of themselves as a piece of data that's been breached. People think of themselves as, you know, an individual whose privacy has been invaded, and I'm a customer who hasn't been well protected by Target, at least perceptually, and I think Target has to work very, very hard to align themselves with the understanding of their emotional, the emotional relationship they have with their customers in they want to come through this incident successfully.
SAVIDGE: And, you know, Target has been criticized for taking too long to, you know, report this information, and yet these kind of leaks take a long time to actually discover and then track down how much information has been lost as a result, so you can't just jump out and say something you don't know. But I'm wondering, you know, if the backlash by the public is legitimate against Target, because they feel that they withheld information?
PEASE: Well, that's a -- that's a very difficult question to answer right now, because there are criminal investigations under way, and there are legal issues involved now. And you just don't know how much Target is able to say or not say. I think their big challenge is to be as transparent as they possibly can and to explain as much as they can in real-time. You know, Target has trained us as customers over the years to expect more. That's their brand position. And as consumers, we're going to be looking to Target to really over deliver, to expect more from that brand in terms of how they deal with this particular incident, and to expect really more of them going forward, to protect our security and protect us as customers.
SAVIDGE: Right. As you always say, I guess, it's not how you fall, it's how you pick yourself up, for Chris Christie and for Target, we'll both have to wait and see. Thanks very much, Martha.
PEASE: Thanks, Martin.
SAVIDGE: Meanwhile, new developments now in the case of that SUV driver attacked by a group of bikers in New York City. We'll have the latest right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: There are new developments tonight in a story you're bound to remember, because the video of it went viral last year. An SUV surrounded by a biker gang in the streets of New York. This dramatic scene was captured by the helmet cam of one of the bikers. It ended with one biker critically injured and the driver dragged out of his vehicle and beaten. Well, now the driver of the SUV is planning to sue.
Rosa Flores, who's following this story from New York, and Rosa, who will he sue?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the driver of the SUV in that viral video showing an SUV being chased by bikers intends to sue the city of New York, the police officers, identified or not, and the New York City Police Department. Now, CNN has learned this from documents obtained from a city law enforcement -- city law department spokesperson, rather. And here's how it all started. An SUV being chased by bikers in September of last year. Authorities say the driver, Alexian Lien, was chased by bikers after he initially bumped one during a biker rally.
Also on board, Lien's wife and two-year-old daughter. Lien ran over bikers, critically injuring one of them. The chase ended in traffic. Lien's windows were smashed and he was dragged out of the SUV and beaten. Now, these new developments are from these documents showing that Lien plans to sue the city of New York on the basis of -- and this is the claim, according to these documents that I'm going to read here -- excessive force, false imprisonment, assault, battery, negligent infliction of emotional distress, negligence in hiring, training, and the retention of police officers. But again, Martin, all of these documents are in the intention to sue the Police Department, the officers, whether they've been named or not, and the city of New York.
SAVIDGE: Rosa, do those documents suggest how they are going to prove any of this?
FLORES: You know, if you look on the second page, it does shed some light as to how that's going to happen. And here is how. I mean, it literally just paints a picture of what was going on. So this family was in the streets of New York, driving legally, it says here, and then it says, threatened, imprisoned, attacked, assaulted, battered, robbed, and the motor vehicle vandalized and damaged by a vicious and unruly mob of motorcycle riders. Now, this says that the city had knowledge only because, it says, that undercover police officers were there, and the off-duty police officers became on-duty police officers when these assaults and attacks were made. Now, we should add, again, that these documents are only an intention to sue. As for Lien, he has not been charged. Eleven other people have been indicted, and at this moment, we know that their next court appearance is at the end of this month -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Mm, all right. Rosa Flores, thanks very much for the update in that case.
Coming up, a father forbidden from attending his own daughter's funeral? What could be up with that? We'll explain, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: A father is forbidden from going to his little girl's funeral, because the police say he killed her in a drunken spree. 11- year-old Shanti Lanza was having a slumber party with her friends at her mother's house. During that party, her father showed up with a gun. He was told to leave, but he came back hours later, allegedly drunk. Outside the house, police say he fired four wild shots in the air. One bullet went through the second-story bedroom and pierced Shanti's chest. The father has pleaded not guilty to reckless homicide. Shanti's mother wants him at the funeral to help her say good-bye. But a judge said "no" because someone else might get shot at the funeral.
Joining me now to discuss this, criminal defense attorney, Holly Hughes; and psychologist, Dr. Jeff Gardere. Nice to see you both.
Holly, let's talk about this. Public safety, the concern for public safety, which is what the judge is worried about.
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: Right.
SAVIDGE: Versus a dad's grief and ability to say good-bye to his daughter.
HUGHES: Well, let's first remember that dad is the reason that the daughter is dead in the first place.
SAVIDGE: Correct.
HUGHES: And that has a huge weight in the judge's decision, because what the judge said, is I am worried that there might be vigilantes out there. And not just worried about the defendant's safety, which, of course, is an issue for her. She clearly said, I don't want anybody taking a shot at him, but it would be extremely dangerous for the law enforcement detail that would be responsible for transporting him, because he is in custody, Martin. So he would have to have sheriffs or sheriff's deputies or someone from the jail or the local police department be with him, and she's afraid that law enforcement could be in that line of fire if someone decides to take it into their own hands.
SAVIDGE: So I guess that means that that trumps the man's personal grief, the family's grief? Because he's not found guilty yet.
HUGHES: Correct.
SAVIDGE: He's accused and the evidence may be there, but he's still innocent.
HUGHES: Right. And it does trump at this point, yes. It's what we call public safety or public policy law. And basically, the judge has to consider everybody in the equation. And while it is absolutely traumatic for this father that the little girl is dead, and he's not going to be able to say good-bye, he'll have to find a different way to process that. And I'm sure Dr. Jeff can tell us how that works.
SAVIDGE: That's exactly right.
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Dr. Jeff, regardless of the scenario, is grieving something that humans need to experience here?
DR. JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. What they're saying is he going to grieve this symbolically. What may end up happening is he may get some time with his deceased daughter privately under the aegis of the sheriff or sheriff's deputies, but he won't be able to do the public or the grieving with the family that he'd like to do.
But, also, please be aware that there were three domestic violence charges against him filed by mom. Mom did not show up. Those were dropped. So I'm very suspect when mom says, please, let -- let this man be at his daughter's funeral. I wonder if this is a continuing cycle of violence in that she may feel emotionally, psychologically, that she is self-coerced into inviting him to be there.
SAVIDGE: Yeah, and that brings up a very good point, Holly. Do you think that could have entered into the judge's reasoning?
HUGHES: Absolutely. Because what we're seeing is a pattern where there were prior domestic violence incidents where the mother was the victim. So this man was allegedly violent to her in the past. The police would be called, a report would be made, but when it came time to prosecute, this victim of domestic violence -- and we see it all the time, it's not unusual -- whether it's fear, whether it is coercion, they will back down. They'll recant, Martin, say, no, no, it didn't happen that way, no, I'm not coming to court and testifying. A lot of times it's because they're afraid of more retribution, further problems. If I tell on the abuser in open court, he's going to be really mad and then I'm really going to be in for it. So that absolutely played into it. There's a pattern and history with this man. The judge has to move on.
SAVIDGE: I want to move on to the next story. It took place in Wesley Chapel, Florida, and a memorial service held for Chad Oulson. He is the man shot and killed during an argument over texting in a movie theater. Days after the shooting, what police still don't know is, why?
So, Jeff, can someone like this -- and we're talking about the suspect in this case, who is a former police officer -- can they just snap? Could that be what happened? That's what neighbors think happened to him, he just snapped.
GARDERE: Well, it seems, Martin, there has been a pattern with this individual. Even CNN has uncovered someone who feels that she may have been harassed by this individual a couple of weeks before this. It seems that he has some issue being at the movie theater. Anyone who talks during the movie, anyone who picks up a telephone, anyone who's texting, he just gets very, very irritable. So I would suspect, being age 71, there might be some issues with irritability, with some sort of maybe dementia. I don't think he just snapped. I think this is a pattern that has been growing and just got to the point of where he actually went off. He was a ticking time bomb.
SAVIDGE: Right. And I did actually talk to that woman who made these claims that she, also, had seen him doing this at a theater before the shooting.
Holly, let me ask you this. Stand Your Ground, Florida, you know, they go hand in hand here.
HUGHES: Right.
SAVIDGE: Do you think that could be brought up, and would it be legitimate in a case like that? HUGHES: Absolutely not, Martin. The only thing that this poor victim did was take out his phone, during the previews of the movie, and text his little girl's baby-sitter to make sure everything was all right. That, in no way, affects or bothers the suspect.
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: It was a very verbal argument, and then, of course, the popcorn is thrown, and it's in a darkened theater, and the complaint is it was an unknown object.
HUGHES: OK, words alone are not enough, OK? And further more, Martin, come on, seriously? This does not take a lawyer. This is common sense. If somebody throws popcorn at you, you know it's popcorn. You smell it, you see it, it gets stuck on your clothing. Ever been to a movie and had nice, buttery, slimy popcorn? It's going to stick on you, Martin. There is no way that Stand Your Ground is applicable here. And quite frankly, I don't think any lawyer would be foolish enough or brave enough, all right, brave or crazy enough, to try and float that in court. It's just laughable.
SAVIDGE: All right. We'll have to see.
Dr. Jeff Gardere, thank you, nice to see you.
Holly, thank you, as well.
GARDERE: Pleasure.
HUGHES: You, too.
SAVIDGE: Coming up, actor, author, activist, and social media sensation, George Takei, and his husband, Brad, they'll join us right after the break and talk about their newest project, so please stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Smack dab in the middle of the Hollywood awards season, Hollywood heads to Park City, Utah, for the annual Sundance Film Festival. You might have heard of it. The festival celebrating now its 30th year. It will showcase 117 feature-length projects, including several performances from Hollywood A-listers.
One film that has everyone talking, "To Be Takei." It chronicles the life of legendary actor, George Takei, and his time in a Japanese- American internment camp, his iconic starring role on "Star Trek," and how his witty sense of humor has launched him into an Internet phenomenon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE TAKEI, ACTOR: Oh, my goodness, they're lining up outside.
(CHEERING)
TAKEI: Thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I met George a couple of years ago, and told him about the character and he was supportive of it, since he's the first openly gay character. Just seemed like a natural sort of story line that would be inspired by George.
GEORGE TAKEI: Hello. How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
GEORGE TAKEI: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
TAKEI: That's very impressive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: CNN's Miguel Marquez is live inside the CNN lounge at Park City, Utah, and he's accompanied this hour by George Takei and his husband, Brad.
Miguel, take it away.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, there, Martin.
I am with George Takei and Brad Takei. Breaking news on CNN, your name has been legally changed, husband.
BRAD TAKEI: Takei and Takei, Brad and George Takei.
MARQUEZ: The big premier is tonight.
GEORGE TAKEI: Tonight.
MARQUEZ: And I've learned you've never seen this film.
GEORGE TAKEI: We've never -- well, we've seen rough cuts. But when Jennifer Kroot approached us --
MARQUEZ: The director?
GEORGE TAKEI: -- the director -- we didn't want a vanity film. I'm an actor, and that's always suspect. So we said, we'll have nothing to do with the control of it. You have complete editorial control, final cut and all, and we will not invest a penny in it. It's your project. We will be your subjects, we'll operate to the extent that you want us to, we'll open up our family photo albums, but it is your project.
MARQUEZ: But is it -- and it is about many things. It's about you two. But it's also about the play that you produce. It's about your history, your parents' history. Tell us a little bit about the entirety of it.
GEORGE TAKEI: Well, the incarceration of American citizens of Japanese ancestry, unconstitutionally, has shaped my whole being. I was a child then, 5 years old to 8 years old. So when I became a teenager, much after the internment, I was very curious about what that all meant. And my father was the one who told us about the details of it, and also his philosophy. He said, our democracy is a people's democracy, and it can be as great as the people can be, but it's as fallible as people are. Our democracy is vitally dependent on good people to be actively engaged in that process. And he took me to the "Adelaide Stevens for President" headquarters and --
(CROSSTALK)
MARQUEZ: And this affected you throughout your life?
GEORGE TAKEI: It did.
MARQUEZ: How? How did it play out throughout your life?
GEORGE TAKEI: Again, as my father said, it's important to be actively engaged, sometimes holding democracy's feet to the fire. And so, I was involved in the civil rights movement. I marched with Dr. Martin Luther King, shook his hand, talked with him. I was involved in the peace movement during the Vietnam War. The --
MARQUEZ: And in an acting job, they put you in various stereotypical roles.
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE TAKEI: That's right. And the struggle for getting much more true depiction of Asian and Asian-American characters in the media, which direct -- which directly affected my professional career. But all of this time, I was silent about another aspect of my life. I was gay, from the time I was 9 or 10, I knew --
You knew?
GEORGE TAKEI: -- Bobby excited me much more than Janey.
(LAUGHTER)
MARQUEZ: Brad, he says he did not want control over this project, but he strikes me as someone who's very much a control freak, if I may.
BRAD TAKEI: He's the control freak.
MARQUEZ: Really?
(LAUGHTER)
BRAD TAKEI: What happened is Jennifer Kroot, the director, she showed up at our house, so to speak, and the cameras just rolled. Jennifer's approach to directing was to stay in the background, and after a while, we forgot the cameras were there, and as a result we just lived our lives and Jennifer captured part of our lives. And whether our lives are normal or unusual, she is on -- it's in the documentary.
GEORGE TAKEI: Our married life is very ordinary. In fact, quite boring.
MARQUEZ: Somehow, I don't buy that.
(LAUGHTER)
GEORGE TAKEI: No, no, where it's different is, you know, I'm an actor. And an actor's life is hectic, idiosyncratic and very crazy, not unlike Sundance. I mean, it's madness here. And he's the one that brings order to it. He's organized. He's controlling.
(LAUGHTER)
And I'm very obedient.
MARQUEZ: George, do you know how many hours were shot, over how long they shot?
BRAD TAKEI: Yeah, from start to finish, it was a three-year --
MARQUEZ: Oh, my.
BRAD TAKEI: -- time of --
GEORGE TAKEI: Oh, my.
(LAUGHTER)
BRAD TAKEI: -- time out of our life. And obviously, hundreds of video film was shot, and it was narrowed down to 90 minutes of dense material. It's a lot of stuff happening in 90 minutes, but it's kind of an action-packed romantic comedy --
GEORGE TAKEI: Romantic comedy, because, you know, it's --
MARQUEZ: One hopes. You haven't seen it yet.
BRAD TAKEI: That's true.
GEORGE TAKEI: Well, we saw the rough cut.
MARQUEZ: I see.
GEORGE TAKEI: I'm really looking forward to the --
MARQUEZ: How nervous are you going into this?
GEORGE TAKEI: Well, particularly, because we want it to be a success. We've got, you know, a taste of it. And we're eager to have a lot of distributors there. We're looking forward to a lot of laughs, a lot of applause, and a lot of great --
MARQUEZ: We're going to be right back, but right now, let's all toss to break. We'll be right back with George and Brad Takei. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Before the break, I was -- I wasn't -- we were talking to actor -- and we were talking to actor turned activist George Takei and his husband Brad Takei, and they are live at the Sundance lounge in Park, City, Utah -- Miguel?
MARQUEZ: Oh, my, Martin, we happened to hang on to George and Brad,
And thank you for sticking around.
GEORGE TAKEI: Oh, my. Thank you for having me.
MARQUEZ: And I am nervous saying "oh, my" around you.
(CROSSTALK)
MARQUEZ: But people actually say that now.
GEORGE TAKEI: It is the rascal Howard Stern who did it. And, oh, my, that is a normal thing, right?
MARQUEZ: No.
GEORGE TAKEI: And I has become quite a -- but Howard does and say a lot of enraged things. When I first went on the show, and he did something outrageous, I said, oh my.
(LAUGHTER)
And he had it on tape, and whether I am there or not, whenever somebody says something outrageous, he hits the button and it is my voice comes on, "Oh, my." And now it's become my signature.
MARQUEZ: I want that as a ringtone later, if that's OK.
GEORGE TAKEI: Oh my.
MARQUEZ: I want to read a tweet that you did and in newsman voice. "Someone get me a wide-brim hat and sunglasses, because I am crashing parties at Yoko Ono's."
(LAUGHTER)
Really?
(LAUGHTER)
GEORGE TAKEI: And I did bring the big sunglasses.
MARQUEZ: Really?
GEORGE TAKEI: But I'm here, so I took it off.
MARQUEZ: And part of the story of both of you is owning what Howard Stern did. If you could have crawled into the shell, you could have been hurt by it.
GEORGE TAKEI: Walked out.
MARQUEZ: You could have walked out, but you owned it. What has life been about you, because you created your existence?
GEORGE TAKEI: Well, the thing is that we wanted to reach a different kind of audience. You know, I go on a lot of the speaking tours for the equality for the LGBT community, but people are busy pursuing their living and surviving, and how do you reach those people? Howard has an enormous listenership of people who don't really pay attention to the issues of the LGBT community. He gave us that avenue. And we said -- we discussed it before going on that we are going to do that show, because it will give us great access to that straight, fair- minded group of people that are too busy to really think about equality for the rest of us. And Howard helped me to get that by being outrageous.
BRAD TAKEI: And because Howard is such a truthful story show where you to tell the truth, they smell that you are an imposter or fraud, you are destroyed. So that is what we liked about it. George and I are openly gay and been together 26 years as a committed couple, five years legally married, and that authenticity is what people like about George, it's reflected in the documentary.
MARQUEZ: We knew you as Sulu. You popped back into existence online, on Facebook.
GEORGE TAKEI: And Howard.
MARQUEZ: And Howard.
GEORGE TAKEI: Howard gave me the identity as George Takei.
MARQUEZ: But it is not -- the Facebook post -- it is teamwork.
GEORGE TAKEI: Absolutely.
MARQUEZ: Because the book, "Oh, My," goes right into that.
GEORGE TAKEI: Oh, yeah.
MARQUEZ: How much do you do collaborating on that?
BRAD TAKEI: Well, George is the boss. He's in charge.
(LAUGHTER)
He delegates. He is the editorial, my ace draw of it. And he has me and we have a team of people who help us. But basically, it is the George Takei brand that gets out on his social media platforms.
MARQUEZ: And --
GEORGE TAKEI: And that gives us access to, again, a wide range of people. And we with were able to talk about LGBT issues and in a humorous way, and it is humor that is the social glue that connects disparate hearts of our society, and here we are now in the state of Utah, which when we first got invited to be a part of Sundance, we were delighted, because it is a marriage-equality state. We were looking forward to it, and then all of this, you know --
MARQUEZ: Just something that you are watching very carefully now?
GEORGE TAKEI: We are watching very carefully.
MARQUEZ: Before we run out of time, and this is big in Hollywood premiers, and a few hours from now, you will be there. What are you wearing?
GEORGE TAKEI: Well, I am going to be Hugo Boss.
MARQUEZ: Very nice.
GEORGE TAKEI: Are you listening, Hugo boss? I need a free suit.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BRAD TAKEI: And he will get that.
(LAUGHTER)
MARQUEZ: That was great. How classy.
BRAD TAKEI: And I want to be wearing a big smile knowing that the premier of documentary -- this is a life-changing moment in our life, and we are excited that the documentary will be seen by hundreds of thousands of people.
GEORGE TAKEI: That's what it means to be Takei.
MARQUEZ: And when will folks see it?
BRAD TAKEI: We don't know. That's what we are here for. We're selling the distribution.
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE TAKEI: And we hope to get a good distributor and so hopefully within a year or so.
MARQUEZ: So hopefully the next year or so?
GEORGE TAKEI: Yes.
MARQUEZ: Martin, crashing the parties with George and Brad Takei.
Back to you.
SAVIDGE: I envy you very much.
Thanking you, Miguel.
(LAUGHTER)
A Wall Street reporter left his home a week ago to take a quick walk, but he has not been seen since. His family says that a story he was investigating may have something to do with his disappearance.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
