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Heroin: A Century of Seduction

Aired February 08, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): What if I told you there was something your son or daughter, or maybe a neighbor or co-worker was more likely to die from than a car accident. Something becoming more common every year, drug overdoses.

The growing part of that problem is heroin. An epidemic so tragic, so seemingly unstoppable a governor recently devoted his entire state of the state address to it, calling it a full-blown crisis. A drug that after a century of seduction has this country in its grip like never before.

Maybe you are thinking, not in my town. If so, you might be wrong. Let's talk about Delray Beach, Florida. Police there say they seized more heroin in the first two weeks of 2014 than in the past decade. Or Chicago, a city that leads the nation in E.R. visits from heroin overdoses or Long Island.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heroin is a natural disaster, taking out Long Island's young people, left and right.

LEMON: Or Maryland where a toxic blend of heroin has left 37 people dead since September. While the same recipe killed 22 in the last week of January in Pennsylvania. A 19-year-old user overdosed on that batch more than once but told CNN he and other junkies knew it was deadly and were actually seeking it out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody knows there's heroin bags out there that are killing people or making them overdose, we know those are the good bags. It's what everybody wants to go about doing.

LEMON: Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us. This is a special edition of the CNN NEWSROOM "Heroin: A Century of Seduction." And of course, the reason heroin is in the headlines is the death of Philip Seymour Hoffman. Celebrities like him or "Glee" star Corey Monteith who died from an overdose last year prove any one, any sex, any race is vulnerable to heroin.

A drug where the number of addicts has doubled between 2002 and 2012. Can anything be done to stop this epidemic? I want to talk now with three men who know more about heroin abuse and addiction than most people. William Moyers, he is the vice president of public affairs at the Hazelton Clinic, one of the country's leading treatment centers. David Cohen is a clinical person with Hazelton and Bob Forest is a musician addiction specialist and author of "Running with Monsters." Some of these gentlemen I have spoken with before. All of you have fought addiction.

So David, here's my question, you were in a coma for five years after that. You didn't go straight for three years - five days, excuse me, you were in a coma five days. Three years after that, you didn't go straight for three years. What was the thing that stopped you from coming clean initially?

DAVID COHEN, FORMER HEROIN ADDICT: You know, I started using marijuana. Because of some risk factors in my life, I started, from the first time I used, I continued to use throughout. Eventually, I progressed to opioids like pharmaceuticals, Dilaudid, morphine. By the time I had started heroin, which was on my 21st birthday, I had already been a full-fledged addict.

And so the coma was just a bump in the road for me. You know, I barely made it into adulthood. That was on my 21st birthday, on October 2nd. October 6th when I awoke, my brain was not fully functioning, I had a business, I was in school, nothing was connecting. I just lost - I was demoralized. I lost all confidence to move forward and just went right back to what I knew, which was getting high. And so I did that for many years.

LEMON: It sounds like opioids, many people go from opioids to doing heroin. Bob, you fought addiction for years, too. What kept you from coming back? Why couldn't you kick it?

BOB FORREST, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Well, I was, you know, I was kind of a spoiled, entitled, bratty kid and I just, with addiction, with my own addiction, it just was part of who I was. Nobody could tell me anything. Nobody could reason with me. I went to Hazelton in 1980 - '89, I think. I remember being the youngest person there and just thinking what am I doing here? There was no reality that could pierce my insanity. That's typical of a lot of addicts.

LEMON: William, I want to go to you now. Switzerland gives free heroin to addicts, to eventually try to wean them off of the drug. It is controversial but the public supports it there. What do you think about that approach?

WILLIAM MOYERS, VP OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS, HAZELTON FOUNDATION: Well, I'm not an expert, Don, on whether it's a good idea to use drugs to treat drugs as a societal problem and solution. But I do know that we as a nation here in the United States, have fought a war on drugs for 200 years. A war that has largely failed. In part because it does not see addiction, whether it's addiction to opiates, or marijuana or alcohol, as the number one health problem.

And so I feel that, you know, trying to embrace the problem as a health care problem and not a criminal justice problem or any other problem, but one for what it is, a health care problem as a first step. How that then proceeds is really up to the individual who struggles with addiction and really up to the case managers, the doctors and the social workers who are working with those people. But it's clear that addiction is a disease. It's treatable and recovery works. But simply jailing people or simply giving in drugs in lieu of other drugs is really not a comprehensive or effective approach.

LEMON: I want to ask you because you mentioned health care. Because part of Obamacare requires outpatient counseling to be part of insurance plans, how big do you think that is for addicts?

MOYERS: Well, it's a huge step in the right direction. Because, you know, as we talked about earlier, addiction is a treatable illness. Recovery is possible. Your other guests have recovered from it because of treatment. I have, too. I'm in long term recovery, not from opiate addiction, but from addiction to alcohol and other drugs, including cocaine. And in getting insurance companies to cover addiction, like they would cover any other chronic illness is a major step in the right direction in terms of approaching this problem for what it is. As I said earlier, it's a health care problem.

So through the Affordable Care Act, through the Parody Insurance Act, we are seeing more and more people at Hazelton and other facilities as well, being able to access addictions treatment by using their healthcare insurance. That's a big step in the right direction.

LEMON: David, back to you, with everything you know, with all your experience, do you still feel vulnerable to your addiction? We saw what happened recently with Mr. Hoffman. He went back into treatment because he felt that he was going to somehow relapse or start using again. How do you - do you always feel vulnerable?

COHEN: Yes. You know, addiction is marked by an obsession of the mind, a physical allergy and underneath that is restless, irritable and discontentness. Today, I'm not so much dealing with the obsession to use or to drink. And I'm dealing with the allergy because I haven't put it in my system over 17 years but again underneath that there's this restlessness, irritability and discontent that on a daily basis I need to keep that in check or certainly I will be vulnerable to return to active addiction. I'm by no means cured. It's a daily reprieved based on what I'm doing today, the action steps I'm taking today to maintain my recovery.

LEMON: Hey, Bob, I want to ask you, I have a - I'm up against a break here but I want to ask you because I've spoken to you before. When you look at this, every one is saying heroin is back with a vengeance. And then many people will say, you know, heroin never went anywhere. Maybe the public is just reawakening to it. What do you make of that?

FORREST: Well, I think this generation and I'm dealing with in my treatment centers is tremendously vulnerable to because their drug of choice or initial gateway drug was opiate. They stole Vicodin out of their grandma's medicine cabinet at 15. And the migration to heroin is not that big of a migration and the one David talked about from marijuana through to heroin when you are 21. These kids are ripe for it.

You know, I'm just shocked and surprised that it takes continually the kind of celebrity death to get this subject talked about. It's an epidemic. It's killing our young people every day and - and, you know, you are dealing with three people fighting the fight every day. It's - it's really something.

LEMON: I think you are absolutely accurate. I look at the deaths, just people in the music industry who died over the years, allegedly from heroin, Janice Joplin, Jim Morrison, Rudy Lewis, Frankie Lyman and just on and on and on even until now, until 2014. So, if it's happening there, then it's happening in a larger culture.

I appreciate you gentlemen. Thank you very much.

We are going to continue on and talk about heroin. It may not be the first thing that comes to mind when you think of Vermont, but that state is facing an epidemic of abuse. That governor is joining us live to talk about what's happening there, next.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's easy hiding my heroin habit from my parents. I'm tired, I don't eat, (INAUDIBLE) typical kid. I hide my stash in my room because I know my parents would never snoop. They don't notice the missing pain killers either or the money I take from their wallets, but I think they're going to notice this.

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LEMON: So, if anyone needed a wake-up call to this crisis of heroin addiction, they got one from Vermont's governor last month. Peter Shumlin devoted the state of the state address to heroin. His entire state of the state address to heroin. Since 2000, Vermont has seen an increase in more than 770 percent in treatment of opiate addictions. 770 percent. Numbers like that led the governor to describe his state as facing a full-blown heroin crisis.

He joins me now to talk about this crisis. Governor Shumlin, it's good to talk to you again. I wish it was about better circumstances. You and I have discussed this on CNN. We know the magnitude of this, unfortunately, it did happen to Philip Seymour Hoffman. But many would say that you have been watching this coming for quite some time now, and that's why you did it. You are proposing more treatment for Vermont's addicts along with tougher laws. Which is more important?

GOV. PETER SHUMLIN (D), VERMONT: It's all important. I mean really the most important thing and I think the death of Philip Seymour Hoffman reminds us of this is we are talking about a health care crisis that no one wants to talk about. With it comes a lot of shame. You know, I think that together, collectively, we got to change the way we approach this disease.

Yes, it means tougher sanctions for dealers. We're going to do that in Vermont. It means enhanced penalties if you use a weapon in committing a crime when you break in someone's home to feed your habit. But what we really have to change is this notion that we can just lock folks up and solve the problem that way. We know we can't. I think what you just heard from the folks who spoke earlier in the show, what we've learned in Vermont is we got to change the judicial system so that when people get caught, when they are ready to face their crisis, we can move them to treatment instead of prison as the only option. Because treatment makes our streets safer, gives them hope and a chance of what is a terrible and long struggle. They will always be facing the challenge of addiction. At least they can become productive members of society where they can rejoin us.

LEMON: When I hear people talk about it, especially parents, right, they all say the same thing, "Not my kid, not my Johnny. Not my Susie. There's no way they would ever do it." What do you say to someone who says that they don't know an addict? That they aren't an addict and that they don't want to see their tax dollars spent on those people. I mean, how does this affect them and what do you say to them?

SHUMLIN: You know, what I say is two things. First, talk about taxpayers who have no connection to addiction, to heroin addiction or any other addiction. So I say, with your heads, we are spending your money on this crisis. I mean, let me tell you how it works in Vermont. We now spend more taxpayer money on prisons than we do on higher education in the state. Moving folks into a better educational opportunity, which leads to a better job. So this affects jobs.

Taxpayers in Vermont are spending twice what they spent nine years ago locking folks up. For $1,136 a week, I can put someone in prison in Vermont and I do. For 136 bucks a week, I can put them in treatment for heroin and other opiate addiction that works and gets them back, not committing crimes, making our streets safer and saving Vermonters a ton of loot that they are currently wasting on a prison process that when they come back out, they are very likely to reoffend.

So that's what I say to folks in their heads. With their hearts, I say "listen, whether it's Philip Seymour Hoffman, someone that we all revere or whether it's your neighbor or someone you don't even know, you know, our common humanity should ask us to look at folks who are facing a disease that very possibly will kill them, certainly will destroy their life. We have an opportunity to intercede, to get them treatment and to give them hope and opportunity."

LEMON: And you were hesitant to talk about this last time. I said "Hey, listen, do you think it's a crisis across the country?" You said "I don't want to speak for the rest of the country, but I know it's in Vermont." Sadly, this past week, we have learned, everyone has learned, that it is indeed a crisis across the country. They should be following your lead, governor. Thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us here again on CNN.

SHUMLIN: Hey, thanks so much for having me on.

LEMON: When an addict dies and a family mourns what happens to the dealer. And the miracle drug called the heroin vaccine, that is saving lives. It's ahead on our special "Heroin: A Century of Seduction."

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LEMON: Heroin is a dream drug for dealers. If you got ten bucks and you want to get high, well, what are you going to spend it on?

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JAMES CARPA, DEA DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS: On the street, if it's going to cost you $80 to get a pill, some opiate type of pharmaceutical drug, versus $10 for a bag of heroin, that's what we see.

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LEMON: So the dealers know those bags add up. I want you to look at this heroin bust. It's from the past week, an estimated $700 million worth. A fortune for whoever is selling it. But for every shipment that gets caught, how many get through? That's the question.

CNN reporters have been following this crisis across several states, in a Pennsylvania clinic and in New York City and the suburbs where one person described heroin as a natural disaster. Unbelievable.

I'm joined now by Rosa Flores and also by Alexandra Field. Rosa, the young man who spoke in the beginning there, in the beginning said he overdosed on Theraflu with heroin. He kept looking for it. That kind of addiction is hard to break and understand. Why is it - tell us about your experience with that?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So we got to put it in context. This is in Pennsylvania. These deaths, there were 22 deaths in a span of about a week in the six counties in western Pennsylvania and this was Fentanyl-laced heroin. What that means is that there was Fentanyl in what is sold as heroin in these stamp bags.

The medical examiner actually found it was 50 percent Fentanyl and 50 percent heroin. If you think about it, Fentanyl is a narcotic that is 10 to 100 times --

LEMON: Super drug, right?

FLORES: Super drug, it's 10 to 100 times stronger than morphine. So, what these rehab centers in Pennsylvania started seeing was they were getting two types of calls, Don. One from the older addicts who were afraid that they were going to die because of what was on the streets and the second one was for the younger addicts. You heard there from a 19-year-old who pretty much overdosed on this Fentanyl-laced heroin twice. It took his friend killing himself to actually scare him back into rehab.

LEMON: Can you talk to me, Alexandra about this. It is called Naloxone, right? Naloxone, it can cure?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's an antidote.

LEMON: So are users thinking about that? What's going on with this?

FIELD: OK. So most users, if you ask them, are you thinking about the risk, are you thinking about the potential overdose, they are, for the most part, going to tell you, even if they are considering that, we know that it certainly doesn't outstrip that need to use. I spoke to one young man who is in a rehab facility for the third time now. He has seen friends die of heroin overdoses. I asked him, how much of a factor was the fear when you were using? Was it a factor. Here is what he told us.

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NICK, ADDICT IN RECOVERY: I didn't really think about overdosing, I just wanted to get high, you know? Any means to get it or do it, I was doing it.

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LEMON: He's a baby. He's --

FIELD: He's 22 years old. He says he started using when he was 15 years old. He went from marijuana to prescription drugs and heroin when the prescription drugs were too expensive or too hard to find.

LEMON: It's been happening a lot. You went to Pennsylvania. 22 deaths in a period of how long?

FLORES: About a week.

LEMON: About a week. From - is it all because it's laced with this drug that you are talking about?

FLORES: Right, it is. One of the things the A.G.'s office there is saying, is we are on a manhunt. We want to find who is selling, distributing, you know, dispensing this stuff because we want to prosecute. There's a statute in Pennsylvania that drug delivery resulting in death. So pretty much, if you sell, dispense, deliver this stuff and somebody dies, they are going to prosecute. They are going to find them. And the penalty is no more than 40 years. There's a stiff penalty attached to it.

LEMON: The question is, Philip Seymour Hoffman, they arrested people immediately.

FLORES: Correct.

LEMON: Many people say, you know, around the country, when people O.D., it doesn't really happen like that. Why in his case, why not in other cases? I wonder if this is going to change anything? I'm not sure if you're reporting and talked about that at all.

FIELD: Yes, something we have certainly been talking about over the past week, you know, why the attention on this case. I think it's the same reason you were talking about it up here. Obviously, this is a case that is bringing attention to a big problem, a large problem. The hope is that this changes something in the future. We are talking about Naloxone right now which is this antidote to heroin.

And the question is can it be used more widely? Could it save more lives? We are seeing a lot of states now that are trying to figure out a way to put the Naloxone to use. We're seeing, right here in New York City, a pilot program where police officers are becoming equipped with this life saving antidote. Because we know that sometimes they arrive on the scene more quickly than the EMS and sometimes, frankly, it's already too late.

FLORES: I should add, in Pennsylvania, I talked to a mom whose son died. She said I wish I would have known that if I would have walked into a center and asked for - they simply call it narcan, that she would have had it in her house. She said I would have had this in my house if I would have known that this would have saved my son's life.

LEMON: Yes. It's very interesting. As you were saying, the kids are so young but it's happening to. It's not just young folks, someone in his 40s, Philip Seymour Hoffman, you see people dying all the time -

FLORES: All ages, all races.

LEMON: It does not discriminate. Thank you very much. I hope people learn something from this special.

I want to tell you that coming up, the U.S. urging North Korea to release Kenneth Bay, an American with deteriorating health who has been detained there for nearly 15 months. At the top of this hour, my exclusive interview with Bay's sister, Terry Chang (ph), plus a new push for the release that you will only hear right here on CNN. We'll see you back here at the top of the hour.

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