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Loud Music Murder Trial Continues; Kenneth Bae Trying to Grab on His Hopes; Obama Administration Considers Killing American Suspect; Openly Gay in the NFL?
Aired February 10, 2014 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BOLDUAN: The news continues with Carol Costello and "THE NEWSROOM".
Hey, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Kate Bolduan. Thanks so much.
The big story we're following this morning. Day four in the murder trial of a case some are saying is eerily similar to that of George Zimmerman. Michael Dunn accused of killing a black teenager outside a gas station back in 2012 after a dispute over loud music. Dunn himself expected to testify in a case that put Florida's Stand Your Ground law in the spot light again.
A lot is happening this morning. NEWSROOM starts now.
As I said we're having a little bit of technical difficulties. But let me go on.
Good morning to you. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin this hour with a controversial Stand Your Ground case underway now in Florida. Michael Dunn accused of killing a young African-American teenager over loud music. That's not how Dunn tells it, though. He insists he was in fear for his life when he pulled a gun and pumped nine bullet holes into a teenager's SUV.
This weekend Dunn's fiancee testified that Dunn said, quote, "I hate that thug music." And later saw Dunn put his gun back in the glove box.
Tory Dunnan is following the trial's development from Jacksonville.
Good morning.
TORY DUNNAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Carol. Well, it's possible the state could rest early this week. This was a working weekend for the jurors with key witnesses taking the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DUNNAN (voice-over): After a rare and emotional weekend session in which the prosecution called defendant Michael Dunn's fiancee to testify. Rhonda Rouer was visibly shaken as surveillance video from November 23rd, 2012 played in court.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god. Somebody is shooting. Somebody is shooting on the their car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you hear?
RHONDA ROUER, MICHAEL DUNN'S FIANCEE: I heard pop, pop, pop.
DUNNAN: Minutes earlier she and Dunn had stopped at a Jacksonville gas station and parked next to a red SUV with a group of teenagers inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what did the defendant say?
ROUER: I hate that thug music.
DUNNAN: What unfolded next while Rouer was inside the store is at the crux of the case. Dunn told investigators there was an argument over loud music, then said he heard threats, saw a weapon, took his gun out of the glove box and fired off shots in self-defense. 17-year-old Jordan Davis was shot and killed.
MICHAEL DUNN, SUSPECTED SHOOTER: I went over this a million times, and what I should have done is put the car in reverse. But I -- a shotgun come up or whatever, it was fight or flight.
DUNNAN: Police say they never found a gun in the teen's red Dodge Durango. Rouer and Dunn left the scene, never calling police. They checked into a hotel and ordered a pizza. She testified they sat by the elevator truly believing police were coming.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DUNNAN: And, Carol, as to who might take the stand today some of the possibilities include Leland Brunson's mother. Leland Brunson was Jordan Davis's best friend. He was sitting in the back seat of the car when the shooting took place. Beyond that it's possible that Jordan Davis' father might be called to the stand. And then we're pretty sure the medical examiner will be testifying at some point today.
COSTELLO: All right, Tory Dunnan, reporting live from Jacksonville, Florida. We'll talk much more about this trial in the next block of NEWSROOM. But now I have to tell you about this breaking news.
According to our Barbara Starr the Obama administration is talking about staging some sort of operation to kill an American citizen involved with al Qaeda.
Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins us now to tell us more about this.
Good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. The Associated Press was the first to report this but CNN has now confirmed that at the highest level of the Obama administration there is discussion about an operation, a U.S. military operation, to go after an American citizen who is suspected of al Qaeda involvement overseas. Plotting against Americans plotting against the U.S.
No decision has been made, we are told. This is all being discussed at the highest levels of the national security community in the administration and the military commanders trying to come to an understanding whether they believe this target is worth the risk of going after.
They are not offering a lot of details. This is apparently going on. Potentially it might happen in a country that would not allow U.S. ground troops in. So we're talking about a potential drone attack. The question for these commanders is, is it still worth the risk to go after this American citizen?
Of course, it is very, very politically sensitive for so many obvious reasons for the U.S. to target Americans for killing. It happened back in 2011, of course, when the U.S. went after the American borne cleric Anwar Al-Awlaki in Yemen. Caused North Korean media huge controversy. Very few details about this but apparently discussions are underway at the highest levels of the Obama administration -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Any idea from your perspective who this American citizen is?
STARR: We don't know. You know, it's interesting. Over the last month, for example, U.S. officials have said it has been well known there are a number of American citizens fighting with al Qaeda, with al Qaeda affiliates in any number of countries. There have been Americans in Somalia, in Yemen, again, of course. Recently the U.S. said it was tracking a number of Americans in Syria.
And the secretary of Homeland Security, Jeh Johnson, recently said that Syria is now a Homeland Security issue for the United States. But officials are not disclosing any other information at this point. It appears to be a very sensitive matter if they decide to proceed with it.
COSTELLO: All right. I'll let you get back to digging.
Barbara Starr reporting live from the pentagon this morning.
Now a story very much about courage. Football player Michael Sam is ferocious on the field, an all American among college athletes and he is gay. The defensive lineman says he shared his secret with his University of Missouri teammates back in August. And now with the NFL draft only a few months away he has nothing to hide.
CNN's John Berman has more for you from New York.
Good morning, John. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR, EARLY START: You know, Carol, Michael Sam is 6'2", 255 pounds. He is a big guy, he's strong, but real strength is what he is doing right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL SAM, DEFENSIVE END, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI: I'm Michael Sam. I'm a football player and I'm gay.
BERMAN (voice-over): All American defensive end and NFL hopeful, Michael Sam, making history, revealing that he's gay in interviews with ESPN and the "New York Times."
SAM: And I was afraid that it would leak out without me actually owning my truth. I wanted to let the world know and tell them that, hey, I'm gay, let me tell my own story.
BERMAN: If he's drafted this spring, Sam will become the first openly gay player in the National Football League.
SAM: I understand how big this is because it's a big deal. Nothing has been -- nothing has done this before, no one has done it. And it's a kind of nervous process but I know what I want to be and I want to be a player in the NFL.
BERMAN: Reaction to Sam's announcement poured in almost instantly with the NFL releasing a statement of support, writing, "We admire Michael Sam's honesty and courage. Michael is a football player. Any player with ability and determination can succeed in the NFL. We look forward to welcoming and supporting Michael Sam in 2014."
Sam, a projected mid-around NFL pick, who played in college for Missouri, told his coach and his teammates about his sexual orientation back in August.
SAM: I was -- I was kind of scared, even though they already knew. I was still scared of telling them and just to see their reaction was awesome. And they supported me from day one.
BERMAN: Many of Sam's former teammates took to social media to rally around this 6'2, 255-pound lineman. Linebacker Kentrell brothers tweeted, "We are family and we support all of our players, nothing changes. It takes a lot of courage to do what he did and we are behind him all the way."
Sam launched a Twitter account Sunday night to thank everyone for their support. His announcement, a landmark moment in confronting homophobia in professional sports.
SAM: I probably may be the first, but I won't be the last. And I think only good things is going to come from this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: In case you're wondering whether a gay athlete can succeed at the top levels of sports like this his team in Missouri finished 12-2 this year, fifth in the nation. He played in the SEC which is the toughest conference in college football. A lot of people think it's like pro football already. So this guy can play, he can succeed. He is likely to go somewhere in the mid range of this draft coming up -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know, it all sounds so promising but "Sports Illustrated" is reporting this morning that some within the NFL don't see great things for this kid.
BERMAN: Well, he's undersized for a defensive end. He's going to will have to switch positions which is something he allowed to deal with no matter what.
And then there are a lot of personnel people in the NFL who look to players' backgrounds. Anything that might upset the chemistry in the locker room. So maybe it will affect his draft status. He would go lower than he would otherwise. But here's what he's hoping and people behind him were hoping -- that all the teams that pass on him in the first, second, third, fourth round, they will come to regret it -- Carol.
COSTELLO: We'll see. John Berman, many thanks.
You can see more of John this morning as he and Michaela Pereira debut their new show at this hour starts at 11:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
New disturbing video of Kenneth Bae, the American missionary held captive in North Korea. On this tape he says he's not giving up hope. The video also shows Bae as he met with a Swedish diplomat on Friday. He is serving time in a labor camp and was recently released from a North Korean hospital. He had an emotional message for his family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH BAE, PRISONER IN NORTH KOREA: To my family just let them know that -- you know, that even though I am here but I am still continue on, and I have not lost hope or I have not given up anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: This morning a former U.S. ambassador to South Korea arrived in Pyongyang. So there are many moving parts to this story. So let's go to Seoul, South Korea and Paula Hancocks.
Tell us more, Paula.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, we know that this Monday night Donald Greg, that former U.S. ambassador to South Korea is in Pyongyang. That's also been confirmed by North Korean media KCNA. Why he said, though, we don't know for sure. Now certainly according to South Korean media, they believe that it is linked to Kenneth Bae. They're speculating that he is in country to try and lobby for the U.S. citizen's release.
But at this point we simply don't have that direct link. But it would be a remarkable coincidence if he just happened to be there at the same time. So we are waiting to see on Tuesday. It's 11:00 at night here. And as of Tuesday morning we're hoping to get more information on Greg himself.
But as you say Bae has been shown once again to be back in that labor camp. And this is exactly what his family did not want to see. It is what Kenneth Bae didn't want to see. He, speaking to that Swedish diplomat, says that he was very concerned about his health and saying that if he was going to be in that camp for much longer he believed he would be back in hospital.
He has back and neck pain. He says he has gum infection and he says that he's lost about 10 pounds just in the last three weeks. Let's listen to what he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAE: I'm going to stay strong mentally and spiritually. And I'm trying to stay strong emotionally as well. But my main concern right now is -- you know, that my physical condition is hard laborer for eight hours a day for the next couple of months would be difficult. So they can do something right away it would be the best way to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANCOCKS: So continuing concerns for Kenneth Bae's health.
Back to you, Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Paula Hancocks reporting live from South Korea this morning.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, court is now in session in Florida as the loud music murder trial resumes following a one-day break. We're going to break down the trial with our legal analysts next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: The prosecution could rest today in the trial of a Florida man accused of murdering a teenager. Michael Dunn's murder trial now enters a second week.
And the similarities to the George Zimmerman case are striking a chord with the community. Dunn says he killed Jordan Davis in self defense in a dispute over loud music but police never found a weapon in Davis's SUV. Dunn's girlfriend testified she saw a gun in the glove box moments after shots fired.
Tory Dunnan is live at the courthouse in Jacksonville, Florida. And legal analyst Joey Jackson and Paul Callan are in New York.
Good morning to all of you.
JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.
TORY DUNNAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Tory, I want to start with you, what is going on in the courtroom now?
DUNNAN: More witnesses are taking to the stand today. But, right now, going into the courtroom, they have a DNA expert on the stand, talking about the specifics of this case.
But later on today is when things could get really interesting. We are told at some point or another Jordan Davis's father might testify.
Also, Leland Brunson's mother. Leland Brunson was Jordan Davis's best friend. He was in the SUV at the time of the shooting. And according to attorneys, his mother was inside when he was first interviewed by police.
So, those are some of the possible big witnesses that could testify today, or for the next couple of days.
COSTELLO: OK. So, a DNA expert is on the stand now. Let's listen for a bit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then declared an expert in firearms identification in the state of Florida?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many times?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been approximately 55 or 60 times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Having been declared an expert on firearms on the same courts in the state, have you gone on to be able to give a jury your opinion in firearms identification?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many times?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Again, approximately 55 to 60 times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, at this time, I would tender Ms. Pagan to the jury as expert in firearms ammunition identification.
JUDGE: Mr. Stroller (ph).
(INAUDIBLE)
JUDGE: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, same instructions holds for Ms. Pagan. She is declared to be an expert in the area of firearms identification, ammunition identification. So she will be able to render an opinion about that subject matter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are there numerous types and calibers of handguns?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, there are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you explain the difference between a revolver and a pistol or specifically a semi-automatic?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, with a revolver, it's a manual gun. I think most people are familiar with how revolvers have a cylinder in them and you manually load the cartridges into the round cylinder so that each time when you fire and pull the trigger, the hammer will pull back if you haven't already pulled it back manually.
You pull the hammer, the hammer will fall, and with each pull of the trigger the cylinder will rotate and it will shift to the next unfired cartridge. And then you can fire until you have spent all of your cartridges and fired all bullets. At that point, the user has to manually push the cylinder out, take out the fired cartridges, that ones that aren't good anymore, remove them and reload the firearm.
With a semi-automatic, you have a magazine which the user can load with cartridges. You place the cartridge into the magazine well of the pistol. With each pull, the gun fires, the slide will automatically cycle, that power from the explosion automatically cycles the slide, and will feed a new fresh cartridge.
It will pull out the old cartridge automatically. When it shuts it will feed a new fresh cartridge so that with each pull of the trigger one shot will be fired, extracted, ejected and a new cartridge fed.
HARRIS-PERRY: Let me ask you to explain the different parts of a whole cartridge or a bullet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. What most people will call a bullet but are technically called a cartridge. A cartridge consistent of three or four main components. You have like a brass cup that makes the base, and inside the brass cap, that's where the gun powder goes in and then on top of the brass cup sits in kind of snugly is the bullet.
On the bottom of the cup is a small metal disk called the primer. When the hammer or the pin hits it that is what starts the ignition explosion. So you have your brass cup, your bullet on top, your gun powder inside and then your primer on the bottom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I ask you about a .9 millimeter cartridge. Tell the jurors to what the 9 millimeter referrals.
UNIDENTIIFED FEMALE: That's in reference, too. That's approximately caliber, which means the diameter of the bullet or the bore of the gun that it be shut out of.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is considered to be small caliber, medium caliber or large caliber ammunition?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That would medium to large caliber. It's not a small caliber.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not sure how far can a .9 millimeter semi- automatic weapon fire if there is nothing to obstruct the bullet? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it's going to continue to travel until it hits something, unless it runs out of momentum. I'm not sure exactly how far it would be. It is a good distance. It's not just a few yards. You are looking at several hundred yards probably before -- but it would start to lose power at some point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happens specifically when the shell casing -- what happens specifically to the shell casing when a semi-automatic pistol fires?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, when the gun is fired the explosion occurs. That is what the pressure buildup pushes the bullet out of the muzzle. And that will travel in the forward direction. The cartridge case -- if the gun is pointing that way the bullet will go that way. The cartridge case stays inside the gun and it is forced in the opposite direction.
The bullet goes that way and cartridge case slams against the inside of the gun providing momentum to automatically cycle the gun. It will slam against inside surfaces as well as get fatter. It will operate and slam against the surface, push the slide back which then starts the process of extracting that spent cartridge case and ejecting it out of the gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there a certain ejection pattern for certain types of semi-automatic pistols?
COSTELLO: All right. We're going to step away from the testimony. This is Maria Pagan. She is with state of Florida, and obviously, she's a weapons expert and she is describing the type of gun used by the defendant in this case, Michael Dunn, to kill that Florida teenager in his SUV.
I want to bring in Paul Callan and Joey Jackson to parse this out. She is describing the gun because according to police Mr. Dunn initially fired into the SUV. As the SUV was speeding away he fired at the departing vehicle which is rather disturbing as you hear the testimony. That a bullet from a .9 millimeter handgun can travel until had hits something, Paul.
CALLAN: Well, yes, it suggests he was endangering the occupants of the SUV but bystanders could have been killed by a reckless action. Technically that is probably not relevant here. The only relevance here is was he acting in self defense with respect to the SUV occupants.
As, a prosecutor you want to get this in front of the jury because they are going to look at the whole picture.
COSTELLO: So, Joey, the victim in this case, Jordan Davis, was sitting in that SUV, in the back seat I believe, right?
JACKSON: Yes, Carol.
COSTELLO: And Mr. Dunn said he thought he saw maybe the barrel of a shotgun and some sort of stick, and he freaked out and he went for his gun away, instead of driving away, he took the gun out of the car, fired into the SUV, killing Jordan Davis.
Saturday, his fiancee took the stand. I want to play a bit of what she had to say about when they initially pulled into the gas station and heard the loud music coming from the teenager's SUV.
Let's listen.
OK. So, I apologize. We are having a lot of technical difficulties today.
But in testimony, the fiancee of Michael Dunn testified when they pulled into the gas station and heard the loud music coming from the teenager's SU, Michael Dunn supposedly said I hate that kind of thug music. So, he was upset from the get go.
In my estimation, the fiancee's testimony actually hurt his fiancee's case. ?
JACKSON: It hurt it significantly, Carol. And you laid it out well what the facts of the case are showing. Now, with regards to her testimony, Carol, it's significant for two reasons. The first reason is to the fiancee why it is important because she points to his state of mind. He hates that thug music.
What does that tell you about his predisposition? What does that tell you about what he was feeling?
And if you are the prosecution, the argument is, it shows anger, it shows intention, it shows malice. The second significant portion of her testimony, Carol, I'm sorry, yes, her testimony, was that she mentioned that they were drinking. Of course, she said, you can argue gratuitously that he didn't appear to be impaired but the fact that he was drinking further adds to what was he really acting like? Were his actions reasonable or was he impaired by the alcohol?
So, I do agree the testimony was favorable to the prosecution and hurt her fiancee in a very significant way.
COSTELL: All right. We are going to take a quick break. We'll be back with much more after this.
(COMMERICAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: All right. We're going to head back to the courtroom in Jacksonville, Florida, where the weapons expert is continuing her testimony. She's talking about the .9 millimeter handgun and bullet fragment from the defendant's gun, Michael Dunn, who's accusing of shooting 17-year-old Jordan Davis over loud music at a gas station.
Let's listen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keep your voice up for our court reporter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or maybe refer another one of those -- that's fine. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And the ones here on the ---that would be your right. That's a jacket fragment. It is pretty small and it's largely damaged.
