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CNN Newsroom

"Loud Music" Shooter Testifying

Aired February 11, 2014 - 10:30   ET


MICHAEL DUNN, ON TRIAL FOR JORDAN DAVIS' DEATH: We were going to -- I'm staying at Ron, we are going to stay in town two nights. Saturday night, we were going to be in St. Augustine at a Bed and Breakfast that was also pet friendly.

CORY STROLLA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL DUNN: You just mentioned pet friendly. Did you choose a hotel in Jacksonville for that reason?

DUNN: Yes. We found a Web site that listed all the pet friendly hotels in the area. Where our wedding was in Orange Park we actually found a hotel that was a little far away just because it was pet friendly.

STROLLA: OK so again is it safe to assume that was probably the closest one to the wedding area where everybody lived?

DUNN: Yes, it was.

STROLLA: OK and how old was your puppy?

DUNN: Seven months old.

STROLLA: That was at the time in 2012?

DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: And did you purchase that puppy? Did you adopt it? Was it you and Ms. Rouer's decision to get a dog together?

DUNN: Yes. It was our decision together and we purchased it.

STROLLA: OK and how long had you been with Ms. Rouer?

DUNN: At that time, three and a half, four years. May of '08 when we started going out.

STROLLA: OK did you have a serious relationship with her?

DUNN: Absolutely. She is my fiancee.

STROLLA: OK and were you living with her at the time?

DUNN: Yes, we were.

STROLLA: OK and how long were you living together? DUNN: If we were together three and a half years, we were living for three of those. So we dated about six months before things got serious.

STROLLA: OK. And where was this -- I guess we will call it a premarital home. Where were you guys living at that time? You don't have to give me any exact address. But what area is it?

DUNN: It was South Patrick Shores, commonly referred to as Satellite Beach.

STROLLA: OK. And did you live there the entire three years together?

DUNN: No, we did not.

STROLLA: OK when did you move there?

DUNN: We had been there almost -- I think we had just renewed our year lease. So we were coming up on our second year there.

STROLLA: OK. And how would you characterize Satellite Beach?

DUNN: Small beach community.

STROLLA: OK. Friendly neighborhoods?

DUNN: Very much so. We were just south of Patrick Air Force Base. So we had you know young people in the area, surfers, an eclectic group, retirees. I mean it was -- it was a nice community.

STROLLA: OK. And even, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, you lived close to the beach?

DUNN: We were on the beach. Our backyard and then there was a dune and then there was the beach.

STROLLA: OK and was that beach also pet friendly and accessible to animals?

DUNN: Yes, it was.

STROLLA: And is that one of the reasons why you guys decided to get a dog together?

DUNN: Yes all of the neighbors, I mean a few, quite a few of the neighbors in our area, if you will, it was like eight different townhouses. You know most of them had pets and that was kind of what prompted us to get one.

STROLLA: And this was a small subdivision. You said there was about eight condo units.

DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: Townhouse units?

DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: And when you drove up to Jacksonville, did you make arrangements to take care of the dog? I mean did you bring supplies for the dog, things like that?

DUNN: Yes, we did. We brought crates, food, things like that specifically for him.

STROLLA: And do you have children?

DUNN: They are all grown.

STROLLA: OK does Miss Rouer have children?

DUNN: Yes. They are all grown as well.

STROLLA: Was this dog kind of you guys' child?

DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: OK and what was his name?

DUNN: His name is Charlie.

STROLLA: And obviously, you were close with Charlie even after seven months with him?

DUNN: Yes. If I worked from home, of course, he was with me. Even when I would go into the office, I would take him.

STROLLA: And what kind of dog was Charlie?

DUNN: He's a French bulldog.

STROLLA: What size?

DUNN: He is very small. I mean at seven months old, he was maybe 15 pounds. I think he is pushing 25, 30 now.

STROLLA: OK and did you guys have any issues coming up to Jacksonville, driving up and checking into the hotel?

DUNN: None at all.

STROLLA: OK. At some point, did you bring alcohol with you into the hotel with Miss Rouer?

DUNN: Yes, we did. We brought our own, quote, unquote, "supplies."

STROLLA: OK. And obviously, going to a hotel, even if you're going to the bar it can be quite expensive.

DUNN: That and it was a holiday weekend. Everything was going to be closed.

STROLLA: OK. And again do you and Miss Rouer enjoy adult beverages while you have dinner, watch TV, things like that?

DUNN: Yes, we do.

STROLLA: OK. Obviously again, we heard some discussions about you. Where did you grow up?

DUNN: In the Florida Keys.

STROLLA: OK. Comparing yourself drinking back and you know growing up as a teenager to the Keys to now, a little bit different?

DUNN: Very much so.

STROLLA: OK. Now do you hold a pilot's license?

DUNN: Yes, I do.

STROLLA: OK. And how long have you had a pilot's license?

DUNN: Since 2005.

STROLLA: OK. And how -- how would it affect your pilot's license if you had too much to drink or got in trouble for drinking?

DUNN: They will revoke your license.

STROLLA: OK. And we kind of heard some of your family friends and your parents' neighbors testify. Did you get your pilot's license to kind of be in part of that group?

DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: OK. And how often did you go and spend weekends and nights at your dad's house for the planes?

DUNN: Every weekend.


DUNN: Every Saturday and sometimes Saturday and Sunday.

STROLLA: OK and would you go there during the week at night to help your dad work on the plane, help neighbors work together?

DUNN: Yes. Dad usually hosted dinner parties just informal get- togethers and so we would -- we would come by there to enjoy time with them.

STROLLA: And did that also include holidays? Would the community kind of get together for holidays even?

DUNN: Yes it's a fairly tight-knit group. If they weren't at mom and dad's house, they would be at somebody else's house but it was the same crowd of people going from house to house.

STROLLA: OK the day of your son's wedding, did you wake up and pour any drinks?

DUNN: No, we did not.

STROLLA: Prior to driving over there, did you pour yourself a drink?


STROLLA: OK had Ms. Rouer, your fiancee, ever met that kind of side of your, I guess former -- your ex-wife, her in-laws things like that?

DUNN: She hadn't met anybody but she had seen pictures of Christopher on Facebook, things like that.


DUNN: But hadn't met him in person.

STROLLA: OK. Kind of a nervous experience.

DUNN: I was going to add that she was very apprehensive of meeting them.

STROLLA: Was that because of how she thought maybe she wouldn't be received?

DUNN: Exactly. She was worried about that.

STROLLA: Any issues at the wedding? Did anybody have any apprehension with welcoming Ms. Rouer as your fiancee?

DUNN: No. They made her feel very welcome.

STROLLA: And then obviously you heard your ex-wife testify.

DUNN: Yes, I did.

STROLLA: And that was Phyllis Molinaro.

DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: OK. Same thing, were there any concerns even with your ex- in-laws, your ex-brother in-laws, ex mother-in-laws any type of animosity your hard feelings?

DUNN: Towards me?


DUNN: No, everybody was happy to see me. I was happy to see everybody. It was a nice -- you know it was a -- it was a nice time.

STROLLA: OK at any point in that evening, did you have an alcoholic beverage?

DUNN: Yes, I did.

STROLLA: OK how many do you recall having?

DUNN: Not many. I mean they were small. So if you know if I had a couple, it was -- I would say Rhonda's characterization of three to four is probably accurate.

STROLLA: OK. And again, we kind of see the little small Styrofoam cups in here today?

DUNN: It's like a half a drink.

STROLLA: OK. And without being accurate as to the cups at the wedding?

DUNN: Absolutely.

STROLLA: Right. And when I -- did you hear me ask some kind a little bit of solo cup. Do you know what a solo cup is?

DUNN: Yes, I do.

STROLLA: Would those be significantly larger than what they had at the wedding?

DUNN: Absolutely.

STROLLA: OK did you bring any of your own supplies in your pocket, do you bring a flask, anything?

DUNN: No absolutely not.


DUNN: We were there to meet you know to be respectful to the wedding, not to partake as it were.

STROLLA: OK and were you also going to the bar to get Rhonda drinks?

DUNN: Yes, I was.

STROLLA: OK and then apparently, does Ms. Rouer like white wine?

DUNN: She prefers white over red.

STROLLA: OK did they have any white wine at the wedding?

DUNN: No, they did not.

STROLLA: OK so were you going to get her drinks of rum and cokes, the same thing you had been drinking for her that evening?

DUNN: Yes, I was.

STROLLA: Any effects of that alcohol at all in you?

DUNN: No. I would have a small glass and then I would do a water. Plus, we were eating so -- STROLLA: And that what I was going to ask you. Did they have appetizers? Did they have an entree, main course, things like that?

DUNN: They had a full buffet. Full-on dinner.

STROLLA: And did you eat the buffet?

DUNN: Yes, I did.

STROLLA: Did you ever go back for seconds?

DUNN: I think I did.

STROLLA: At that time, were you working out or anything like that, any type of physical fitness?

DUNN: I'm sorry to say no.

STROLLA: OK. Was that a topic of you and your fiancee about?

DUNN: Yes, it was.

STROLLA: Did she kind of make fun of you about that?

DUNN: Well that and she was exercising and working out at the time trying to get me to do it with her.

STROLLA: Now, at some point, did you have conversations with family and friends there at the wedding?

DUNN: Absolutely.

STROLLA: Again, when you walked out and you left, can you tell the jury why you left your son's wedding?

DUNN: Well, we left early. We -- I apologized for leaving early but I had warned them ahead of time that we were going to have to take off about 7:00, because Charlie was in the room by himself in a crate and he was going to need a potty break.

STROLLA: OK and how far away was the wedding from the hotel that you were at that was pet friendly, drive time?

DUNN: Roughly, a half hour, 30-40 minutes.

STROLLA: OK and again, there was some discussion earlier about you had lived in Jacksonville how many years ago?

DUNN: It's 1995. So what's that? It's almost 15 years. Is that right?

STROLLA: Are you familiar? Did you memorize Jacksonville? Did you know exactly where you were when you came back up?

DUNN: Some things were familiar. The 295 loop was. I seemed to recall NAS was west on that somehow but I had stayed at my brother-in- law's apartment when I was here during the week.

STROLLA: So did you ever take up residence or have your own house?

DUNN: No, I just stayed with him.

STROLLA: And that was with Don Maze?

DUNN: Yes. That's when I -- when I first met Don, we both worked for the NAS Mega Center.

STROLLA: OK. And what were you doing for the Navy then?

DUNN: We were working on a huge multimillion-dollar system.

STROLLA: OK. Now, at some point when you left the wedding and you were driving back to the hotel, whose idea was it to stop at the gas station?

DUNN: Rhonda wanted to get a bottle of white wine.

STROLLA: And that's because they didn't have white wine at the wedding.

DUNN: Correct.

STROLLA: OK. And she's planning on picking up a bag of chips?

DUNN: Yes, she was.

STROLLA: OK did she eat at the wedding?

DUNN: Not -- not very much. She ate, you know she picked around her plate more than eaten.

STROLLA: OK and at that point, why did you pick that gas station, any reason at all?

DUNN: It was on the way. I mean we -- we got off the highway and I was following my GPS map, you know not really knowing where we were at. It was the first place we saw.

STROLLA: OK. So as you get off the highway, GPS just said get off this exit. You didn't punch in convenience store?

DUNN: No, we punched in our hotel as the destination.

STROLLA: All right. And then you kind of happened (inaudible) the first place you passed?

DUNN: Yes, it was.

STROLLA: OK do you recall looking back on it now how far away the hotel was from that gas station?

DUNN: It wasn't very far. I heard testimony it was like three miles away. And that seems about right. STROLLA: OK and was there a lot of traffic that evening. Was it bumper to bumper? Because Jacksonville is kind of famous for rush- hour traffic. Was it rush-hour?

DUNN: 7:30 in the evening. I don't think that qualifies as rush- hour. But I don't recall any heavy or light. It just was normal traffic to me.

STROLLA: OK. Now, when you pull in, how do you end up finding that spot?

DUNN: It was the closest spot to the door that was open.

STROLLA: And why did you take that spot?

DUNN: So we didn't have far to walk to the door.

STROLLA: OK and you knew Ms. Rouer was going to get out to go buy wine and chips?

DUNN: Yes, that's correct. That was our purpose.

STROLLA: OK. And Ms. Rouer's door actually would have been closest to that sidewalk, right, to walk in the door?

DUNN: Yes, it was.

STROLLA: OK. So it would have been the closest even for her to go in the store?

DUNN: That's correct.

STROLLA: At some point, did you hear loud, thumping bass?

DUNN: Yes, I did.

STROLLA: OK can you tell the jury what did you see or hear when you pulled into that spot?

DUNN: When I pulled into the spot, there was a red SUV in the adjacent area, adjacent parking spot.

STROLLA: OK and do you recall if there were other spots available?

DUNN: I -- I don't recall. I think there were some very far away, like extreme left but nothing -- like there wasn't anything right on the other side of the SUV. It was -- it was take this spot next to the door or take the spots that were way far away.

STROLLA: OK. And again, you knew at that point, you were going there to let your fiancee out to go get chips and wine.

DUNN: Right. Just in and out.

STROLLA: And did you have that discussion before you even pulled in the gas station? DUNN: That we were getting chips and wine?


DUNN: I knew she was getting wine. The chips were a surprise.

STROLLA: In terms of this music, would you characterize it as music or just a loud bass thumping?

DUNN: I just heard the thumping.

STROLLA: OK. And there was some testimony about you heard Ms. Rouer, "Oh, I hate that thug music."

DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: Was that because you could hear the lyrics or was that because the bass was so loud?

DUNN: Just bass.

STROLLA: OK. And do you recall when you were parking there how soon Miss Rouer got out of the car? Did you guys sit there and have any type of conversation?

DUNN: No. I think our conversation was her holding out her hand for some money and me giving her a kiss, you know, hurry back.

STROLLA: OK. So, basically, is it fair to say it took a few seconds before you put the car in park and she was out of the vehicle?

DUNN: That's correct.

STROLLA: OK. Did she have any issues walking into the store?


STROLLA: OK. At that point, did you have any physical sensations about this thumping bass?

DUNN: It actually started a few seconds after she went in the store.


DUNN: There was music but then it got really loud.

STROLLA: OK. And by really loud, was it just kind of annoying or was your rear windshield --

DUNN: Right. Body panels on the SUV were rattling, my rear-view mirror was shaking. My eardrums were vibrating. It was ridiculously loud music.

STROLLA: OK. And in Satellite Beach, you said there were young people, there are surfers. Have you been in an instant where people have their music or their bass loud? DUNN: Yes, at gas stations, if you pull up and the guy right across the island from you has a jeep or whatever, their cars tend to be open. I have had, you know -- I have asked people to turn it down before. They do it happily.

STROLLA: OK. Do you do it -- does it make you angry that people have their bass or music loud?

DUNN: No, not at all.

STROLLA: Have you ever had or in your experiences when you have asked someone, hey, could you please turn it down, have you ever been threatened or cursed at back?

DUNN: Never.

STROLLA: OK. And when they do turn it down, what is your common response?

DUNN: Thank you.


HEALEY: Sustained.

STROLLA: That night, did you ask the guys in the red SUV to turn down that bass?

DUNNA: I did. I said, "Can you turn that down, please?"

STROLLA: OK. Did you say anything like, "I can't hear myself think."

DUNN: If I did, it wasn't to them. It was kind of like a mutter to myself.

STROLLA: Do you even recall making that statement out loud?

DUNN: I do not.

STROLLA: OK. And when you said, could you turn that music down, please, what was the response from the red SUV.

DUNN: They turned it off. And if the music wasn't off, at least the bass stopped completely.

STROLLA: OK. And at that point, what did you then say?

DUNN: I said thank you.

STROLLA: OK. Did you give any kind of hand signal or wave or anything like that?

DUNN: I did not.

STROLLA: OK. Were the windows up in the red SUV at least in the front passenger? DUNN: I looked to my left when I asked to turn the music down and I saw the front windows were up.

STROLLA: OK. And were they tinted?

DUNN: Heavily.

STROLLA: Could you see anybody who was behind there?


STROLLA: OK. How about when you asked the question, were you looking around or did you just direct it to the guy sitting kid of right next to your car?

DUNN: I just like turned a little bit to the left. So I only saw the front.

STROLLA: OK. And did you ask to lower the window and get their attention? Or did you just --

DUNN: I put my window down, because, you know, who is going to hear you when the window is up. And turned to my left and said, "Could you turn that down, please?"

STROLLA: And was that red SUV front passenger door right to your left?

DUNN: Correct.


STROLLA: Was it exactly to your left?

DUNN: It was even with me, right next to me.

STROLLA: OK. And then when you said thank you, did you make any motions or did you just say thank you?

DUNN: I actually -- when I said thank you, I turned and looked left again. That's when I saw the rear area of the SUV where the windows were down.

STROLLA: OK. Did anybody say anything back to you in your response to saying thank you?


STROLLA: OK. How soon after -- well, let me ask you this. Once you said thank you, did you put your window back up or was it already up?

DUNN: I did. I turned my head, I said thank you. I looked back straight ahead and I put my window back up.

STROLLA: How soon after that did anything else happen other than that kind of moment of silence we just talked about? DUNN: Very soon after, I start hearing things like "f" him and "f" that and --

STROLLA: Were they actually saying the word or are you paraphrasing?

DUNN: I'm paraphrasing.

STROLLA: OK. Was it in a nice tone? Was it -- what kind of a tone --

DUNN: No. It was mean-spirited, you know, just like annoyed, if you will.

STROLLA: Once you heard these comments, did you look back over and react at all?

DUNN: Not even a little bit.

STROLLA: Did you roll your window down and say anything?

DUNN: No, I did not.

STROLLA: Did it make you angry?

DUNN: No, it did not.

STROLLA: Did you punch your steering wheel?


STROLLA: Did you throw your phone down?

DUNN: No, no reaction at all.

STROLLA: OK. At that point, after you don't react at all, does it escalate?

DUNN: Well, the music came back on.

STROLLA: Did the music come back on the same or even louder?

DUNN: No, it's probably a little bit less loud than it was but it came back on.

STROLLA: And was it still that bass thump?

DUNN: Yes, absolutely.

STROLLA: OK. Now, are you familiar how radios work with trebles and vocals and things like that?

DUNN: Yes, I am.

STROLLA: OK. At that point, is there a difference between music and lyrics versus that thumping bass?

DUNN: Yes, the only thing that was coming through was bass -- thumping bass.

STROLLA: OK. And we talked a little bit about your window was shaking. Do you have any type of ear damage?

DUNN: I do.

STROLLA: Can you explain to the jury what damage you have and how you got that?

DUNN: Growing up in the Keys, scuba diving is a big part of life and I actually have damage to my right ear. I don't know what the percentage is but I do have a loss of hearing in my right ear and consequently, my left ear kind of compensates for it.

STROLLA: OK. As a matter of fact, did you have any type of business in the Keys in terms of a job or family business where you would actually use diving and things like that?

DUNN: Yes. My father had a dive charter business. We would take paid customers and go scuba diving.

STROLLA: OK. And did this loud thumping create any discomfort?

DUNN: It did, in my left ear, my sensitive ear.

STROLLA: OK. And again, did you turn and yell at the guys in the SUV?

DUNN: When they turned the music on the second time, I wasn't going to ask them for any more favors again.

STROLLA: OK. And did you still hear somebody yelling and cursing at that time?

DUNN: I did. Now, it got ugly I heard, you know, something, something cracker, just --

STROLLA: Did you actually hear certain words or again are you paraphrasing?

DUNN: I heard some things.

STROLLA: OK. And without going into specific terms, you kind of knew what they were saying to you?

DUNN: Yes, I did.

STROLLA: Did you have any reaction at all back to them?

DUNN: No, I did not.

STROLLA: OK. Did you, again, get angry and hit the steering wheel? Any type of anger at all.

DUNN: No reaction, other than I'm looking forward and hoping Rhonda comes out. STROLLA: OK. Now again, your not showing any reaction at this point that things escalate with the person yelling at you in the SUV.

DUNN: Yes, because you know, when they "f" this and "f" that, there was no music playing and I could hear him. Now, there is thumping bass and I can hear him. His voice is elevating.

STROLLA: Can you hear him because he is yelling so loud it is over the bass?

DUNN: It is over that thumping noise.

STROLLA: And does this yelling now include threats of violence against you?

DUNN: Well, after hearing the something, something cracker and this and that, I hear (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I'm flabbergasted. I must not be hearing this right.

STROLLA: How many times did you hear that?

DUNN: I heard him say that. I wasn't sure if that's what I heard --

STROLLA: All right. This time, are you trying to listen a little closer?

DUNN: Now, I'm listening closely like when I'm sitting there, I'm kind of thinking about the nice day we had. I'm thinking about St. Augustine tomorrow but when they said (EXPLETIVE DELETED) now, I'm paying attention to what they are saying.

STROLLA: That kind of got you to perk up?

DUNN: Yes. And an even more elevated (EXPLETIVE DELETED) there is no mistake of what he said. That is what he said.

STROLLA: Do you then look over to see, is somebody talking to you?

DUNN: I did. In fact, I'm to the point where I think it is time to try to de-escalate this.

STROLLA: OK. And what do you mean by that?

DUNN: To try to calm things down.

STROLLA: OK. And do you lower your window?

DUNN: I did. I put my window back down and I looked left.

STROLLA: What do you see?

DUNN: Well, right about that time, I saw a young man walk by the front of my car who I have since learned is Tommy Storns (ph).

STROLLA: OK. Was there any kind of communication between you and Mr. Storns? DUNN: No. I just caught him out of the corner of my eye. I didn't really look at him full-on and I certainly didn't speak to him.

STROLLA: OK. And were you even paying attention to that or are you still focused to the guy --?

DUNN: I am looking at the guy in the rear passenger seat.

STROLLA: OK. Could you clearly see into that vehicle?

DUNN: I could. And I saw two young men with menacing expressions.

STROLLA: Did they look happy with you?

DUNN: No, not at all.

STROLLA: Does the one-- let me ask you this. Was the window up or down on that back passenger SUV?

DUNN: Down.

STROLLA: OK. Was it halfway down?

DUNN: All the way down.

STROLLA: All the way, flat down. Did you have any unobstructed view looking over your left shoulder looking into that vehicle?

DUNN: An unobstructed view.

STROLLA: Right. And you could see two men sitting there?

DUNN: Yes, I could, two young men.

STROLLA: OK. And at that point did they ever turn their attention toward you and look at you?

DUNN: They did. And I asked are you talking to him about me?

STROLLA: Now let me stop you there. There is a famous line with Al Pacino that says "Are you talking to me?" Did you say that to these young men?

DUNN: I think the inflection on that is talking and my inflection is on me. I said "Are you talking about me?"

STROLLA: Why did you ask that as a question, if they were talking about you?

DUNN: Well, they were saying they wanted to kill the MF-er. And I wanted to know if I was that MF-er.

STROLLA: OK. And if they did say yes, and you said you wanted to de- escalate it, what were your intentions of talking to that back passenger?

DUNN: I wanted to make it clear that I said thank you and I didn't mean any disrespect by asking them to turn the music down.

STROLLA: Did you tell them to turn it down or did you ask them?

DUNN: I asked them. I said please.

STROLLA: And have you done that before in the past?

DUNN: Absolutely, without reservation.

STROLLA: Again, common courtesy is to say thank you when someone does you a favor?

DUNN: Absolutely.

STROLLA: At that point, when you said, are you talking about me? Does that individual give you even time to further talk and say, I said thank you or anything like that?

DUNN: No. It escalated.

STROLLA: OK. Did you escalate?

DUNN: No, he did.

STROLLA: Did you get upset?


STROLLA: Did you have any words at all to them other than "Are you talking about me?"

DUNN: There wasn't time. I mean, I didn't have a chance to say anything.

STROLLA: What was the response from the person in the back passenger of that SUV when you said, "Are you talking about me?"

DUNN: He reached forward and picked something up and slammed it against the door.

STROLLA: OK. When you said he reached forward, did he reach --

DUNN: I'm sorry. He reached down.

STROLLA: OK. Down towards his feet.

DUNN: Down towards -- I mean I could see his shoulders move. I couldn't see his hands but you can imagine somebody's shoulders move forward that they are reaching down.

STROLLA: Right. Could you see him actually lean down toward the floor that far?

DUNN: Yes, I did.

STROLLA: And at that point, did you reach for your firearm? DUNN: Absolutely not.

STROLLA: Did you try to flee or get out of car or think anything was going to escalate in terms of physical violence?


STROLLA: Tell the jury after you see that person in the back seat reach down to the floor, do they come back up?

DUNN: Yes. He not only came back up but he slammed whatever it was against the door.

STROLLA: OK. Could you see something against that door?

DUNN: Yes. I saw sticking above like the windowsill about four inches of a barrel.

STROLLA: OK. Let me ask you this. Did he put it out the car? Did he hold it? Kind of describe to the jury what exactly you saw he did?

DUNN: Like this and slamming it up against the door.

STROLLA: Could you hear metal hit the door?

DUNN: It is like a thump.

STROLLA: OK. Loud enough for you to hear? Even with the thumping of the bass.

DUNN: Sure, it was a different sound.

STROLLA: You said it looked like a barrel of a gun or a shotgun.

DUNN: It was thick enough profile it was to my eye a 12-gauge, maybe 20.

STROLLA: OK. Tell the jury, are you familiar with 12-gauge and 20- gauge shotguns?

DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: How are you familiar with those type of shotguns?

DUNN: We do the sporting plays. That's like skeet but, you know, the birds come from different directions. It is like shooting skeet.

STROLLA: Do you actually shoot birds.

DUNN: No. I'm sorry. That's what they call the clay pigeon.

STROLLA: Kind of when you hear somebody say "pull" --

DUNN: Exactly.

STROLLA: -- and then the clay gets shot out? DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: OK. When you say we, who is we?

DUNN: My father and quite a few people from the aviation community.

STROLLA: OK. And how long have you shot sporting plays?

DUNN: I did it as a child. I say a child -- like 12. But since 2005 -- fairly regularly with my father.

STROLLA: OK. Kind of a family, community activity?

DUNN: Yes. It would be one of those Saturday things. We would go flying and go shoot trap.

STROLLA: OK. So you understand how shotguns work?

DUNN: Yes.

STROLLA: You understand how they fire?

DUNN: Absolutely.

STROLLA: You understand how projectiles come out of a shotgun?