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Dunn Found Guilty on Four Counts

Aired February 15, 2014 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. At the top of the hour, I'm Don Lemon. There is breaking news here on CNN. Roll it.

OK. Instead of that, we're going to go to the -- speaking now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE: In counts two, three, four and five.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORY STROLLA, MICHAEL DUNN'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Long ways away from that, but it's definitely something to consider based on the factors that led up to it and then now I think that might be a stronger aspect. But, again, I can't speculate on what's going to happen way in the future.

(INAUDIBLE)

STROLLA: Just a lost the factors. There's pretrial rulings, thing, evidence that came out. There was evidence that was out. There was jury instructions.

REPORTER: Your expert witness -- how big an issue is that going to be?

STROLLA: You never know. Clearly, it could be an issue or would be an issue, but my concern of how big of an issue, again, that's up for the DCA to decide and the Supreme Court after that. What we feel is a big issue sometimes the DCA doesn't agree at all.

REPORTER: How are Michael Dunn's parents doing right now?

STROLLA: As I said before, they're devastated. I mean, even from the get-go, we talked the other night about they were always upset and extended condolences. I know there were things said by their attorneys that condolences weren't reached out to the Davis family. But, again, I was standing next to Ms. Corey when I talked to Ms. McBath's husband and extended those condolences to the Davis family. So, they still feel bad.

Again, we agree with Mr. Davis on this point, Ron Davis. There was no winners, everybody lost something in this. The Davis family lost their son. Their son's birthday was supposed to be tomorrow. And that's going to be hard for them.

So I think tomorrow there's going to be two sets of families that are going to be grieving because of what happened here tonight.

REPORTER: Angela Corey just said she does not think the Zimmerman case had anything to do, or any influence on this case. What do you think about it?

STROLLA: I don't know. I'd love to get into the jurors' minds. I'd love to get into what was going on. I mean, I know you guys asked her about political statements and things like that. I think what I originally said in my press conference is you have to ask Ms. Corey. I said I know what her answer is, and I expected her answer to be that.

But it is hard. You don't know what goes into factors. The fact that jury was back there deliberating again for over three straight days and we don't know what was being said, the fact that they didn't come back on a grand jury indictment. It was a lesser. And we don't know about count 1.

And, again, if you look at one of the questions they asked, is self- defense for one self-defense for all? Our position is -- based on the case law, that may be an issue on appeal, if a jury would have decided self-defense was an issue with count one, Mr. Davis, it would have applied to every single person in that car. So, that may be an issue we have to look at.

The fact that was issue was hung and no verdict on it, we don't know what the jury was thinking. We don't know what they were speculating to. We don't know had they exonerated Mr. Dunn on count 1, then counts 2, 3, 4 fall by the wayside.

REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) some of the counts, 60 years, age 47. Was it even necessary for them to go ahead and retry on basically -- do you think it's necessary? Is it going to be consecutive or concurrent --

STROLLA: Well, again, sentencing is a long way off, but to go to your original question, right, he is looking at 60 years because of the aggravating factor a firearm was used. Chances are it could easily be run consecutive with Judge Healey.

Again, at 60 years, I don't think Ms. Corey is going to recharge it thinking I'm going to tack on more time. I don't think that's going to be her mind mindset. I don't think that was her mindset in the beginning. You have to talk with the Davis family and see if they want closure, see if they want to go through another trial. See if 60 years is acceptable.

Again, if they recharge it, that's Ms. Corey's discretion. She can recharge it and go forward. She has that right a as the state attorney.

But I agree, if he was sentenced to 60 years and you assume he did not get his convictions overturned on appeal, you are looking at basically life in prison at 47 years old, you're right, that's a life sentence regardless of count 1.

REPORTER: Do you think it's a waste (INAUDIBLE) that she filed (INAUDIBLE) --

STROLLA: Again, I don't want to speak on behalf of Ms. Corey. You'd have to talk to her. You did and she gave you her answer.

Again, you have to assume that if the conviction doesn't get overturned on appeal, you would think if we had foresight and could see it was, then, of course, you would recharge and go forward. And then I agree with your point, if everything being what it is, he was going to get 60 years which is life if prison, why would you go through another lengthy, costly trial?

I can't even imagine what this trial cost the taxpayers of Jacksonville. The fact that we went through weekends, had a sequestered jury. They did three days of deliberations. You had overtime with the officers here.

And let me commend, first and foremost, the Jacksonville court staff. The court administration, the sheriff's office bailiffs were phenomenal.

I can at least tell you this, the taxpayers should be very proud of the money they spent for the courthouse system. They were wonderful. They bent over backwards.

So, again, and to go back to your point, to retry count 1 for the sake of retrying it, the Davis family should take into consideration, they have the right to talk to Ms. Corey about that. At least I don't think that was a waste of what was done here. It was done well. They should be very commended for it.

But going forward, that's going to be her decision as a state attorney and can make that decision for herself.

REPORTER: In terms of how you tried the case --

STROLLA: The fact that they were out for 30 hours, I literally have no regrets. But the same time, they came back with a conviction. I have all the regrets. I mean, it's miserable to be in this position. I mean, honestly, I felt bad for the clerk of court. As she's reading the verdict, her hand was trembling. Your heart goes out for her because you know she's in a tough position. I've got the Dunn family behind me, Michael next to me.

I have a great relationship with Michael Dunn. I can tell you I've never seen the man get angry, I've never seen him show signs of violence or racism. It's just this case -- my heart goes out to them.

Again, my heart still goes out for the Davis family. Please, I don't want them to think I'm insulting them. I even said the other day I even hated calling Ron Davis to the stand. I told the jury I didn't want to do that. I didn't enjoy doing that.

So, do I have regrets? Personally, I can't look back and say I do, but then again, they found him guilty so I have to look back and say, man, there's -- I wish I could have done something different, but to be honest, sitting here today, I have no earthly clue what I could have done different in this case.

REPORTER: That 30-hour wait time, what was that like for Mr. Dunn?

STROLLA: Brutal. Brutal. Every time I talked to him, he's in this small box in the back by himself basically can't talk to anyone. It was brutal for us.

I mean, basically my team and my investigative team and my team, the family, we were in a conference room and we were going stir crazy.

I had to get up and walk the hallways because honestly, I would take a trial any day of the week, I would take a three-week trial, a four week murder trial and have zero ounces of stress. But those 30 hours were probably the most stressful hours of my life. I cannot even imagine what Mr. Dunn was thinking because he was the one that was facing the verdict.

LEMON: All right. That is Michael Dunn defense attorney, Cory Strolla, basically saying, listen, I don't know why the prosecution would want to retry this case. He's already going to jail for 75 years, possibly 100 when you look at all the charges on top of that or what he faces there.

So, he doesn't understand why they would retry. Angela Corey, the prosecutor, saying they're absolutely going to retry it. So we shall see in this.

Coming up just a little bit later on after we take this quick break, our attorneys are here. Our prosecutors are here. We've got every single legal analyst that you would want to hear from including people who have tried very similar cases -- right after this very quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Breaking news here. A lot to talk about this hour so we want to get you right up to speed with what's happening right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE RUSSELL HEALEY, DUVAL COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: All right. We have verdicts in counts 2, 3, 4, and 5. I have the verdict form in count 1. There are no markings on it, but I will provide it to the clerk for the record. And based on the jury's inability to reach a verdict as to count 1, I will declare that mistried.

COURT CLERK: The circuit court of the fourth judicial certificate in case number 16-2012-CF-011572-AXXFMA, division CRD. The state of Florida versus Michael David Dunn.

Verdict as to count two, we the jury found guilty of attempted second degree murder and lesser included offense, we find that the defendant discharged a firearm during the commission of the offense. Verdict as to count three, we the jury find the defendant guilty of attempted second-degree murder, a lesser included offense. We find that the defendant discharged a firearm during the commission of the offense.

Verdict as to count 4, we the jury find the defendant guilty of attempted second-degree murder. A lesser included offense. We find that the defendant discharged a firearm during the commission of the offense.

Verdict as to count 5, we the jury find the defendant guilty of shooting or throwing deadly missiles as charged in the indictment. So say we all, Jacksonville, Duval County, Florida. Jury number seven, foreperson, dated February 15th, 2014.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So you heard it. The verdict in the murder trial of Michael Dunn, after nearly 30 hours of deliberations, the jury found Dunn guilty of three counts of second-degree murder, attempted murder and one count of shooting into an occupied vehicle. Three counts of attempted second-degree murder, and one count of shooting into a deadly -- shooting a deadly, a missile, deadly missile into a vehicle.

You heard the judge, the jury couldn't decide on the murder charge, so it was declared a mistrial on that one count. Covering breaking developments in all angles.

Joining me, CNN's Martin Savidge, legal analyst Paul Callan, criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson, and Holly Hughes as well, clinical psychologist Jeff Gardere, and CNN political commentators Ben Ferguson, Marc Lamont Hill joins us as well.

On the phone, HLN host Jane Velez-Mitchell.

Is Nancy with us? No. Nancy Grace will join us as well.

I'm going to go first to our Sunny Hostin. And as well as Martin, both in Jacksonville.

Sunny, to you first.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I, again, remain stunned at this verdict and I do think the jury clearly worked hard and they did come with guilty verdicts on four of these counts, Don. So I don't want to sound like that is not important. That is significant. We're talking about prison time for 60 to 75 years. Yes, that is significant.

But what I find so appalling is that they could not reach a verdict as to the first count, which is first-degree murder. And that tells me that someone on this jury, at least someone, believed Michael Dunn's testimony. We're talking about someone who fled the scene after shooting into a car with four teens ten times. We're talking about someone who then never called 911, never called police, until he was arrested and then somehow came up with this mythological shotgun. I think it is shocking that someone would believe that he actually saw a gun and that there was this perception, this perception that these teens somehow were inherently criminal. I think it's just despicable. And it's hurtful and I think it's a harmful message to send out to the world.

LEMON: You can -- you have a unique perspective on this because you were actually in the courtroom, so take us inside. The jury's expression, their facial expressions, their reaction?

HOSTIN: When the verdict came in, they clearly looked somber. They also looked relieved to some extent. But throughout their deliberations, it was clear that they were struggling with this concept of stand your ground and self-defense. That was very, very clear.

And we did have a more diverse jury this time than we had in the Zimmerman case. There were 12 jurors as opposed to 6 jurors. I think that was significant.

But, again, I mean, when you look at the composition of the jury, the racial composition of the jury, two African-American women, one Hispanic man, one Asian woman who happened to be the foreperson. That is truly not really a diverse jury. It's somewhat diverse, but it isn't.

And I suspect and we'll hear from them, I'm sure, I suspect that there was some sort of tension along racial lines and perhaps even along age lines because there was a large disparity in age. I saw people from their 20s through their 30s.

LEMON: Yes. In the days to come, we'll hear more about that. I'm being told tonight the jury has instructed the judge, here it is -- the jury says they've instructed the judge they're not going to speak in the post-verdict news conference. No jury.

Jury has informed the court they will not participate in the end of trial press conference. We won't hear from them tonight, but perhaps in the coming days.

Martin Savidge is there as well.

Martin, you've been parked there for a long time now, not only getting the pulse of the community but seeing a lot more than that. You were there for the verdict as well. Give us your perspective on this.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think first and foremost, you have to look at it and say this was a murder trial and the end of that murder trial, it's a murder trial with no verdict. After all the pain and suffering Davis' family has gone through, they end up with absolutely nothing. And tomorrow as they gather to mark what would be Jordan Davis' 19th birthday, they just realize they've gone through two weeks of anguish and agony for a trial in which everything is brought forward and for which they got absolutely nothing.

You can turn it around and say -- well, all right, he is going to be serving time for second-degree murder or the attempted murder of three other teens, but not their son. In this community, it's not going over well. And there is anger right now for the prosecutor's office, especially for Angela Corey, because remember, Angela Corey was also the special prosecutor in the George Zimmerman case which many people thought was fairly cut and dry and George Zimmerman would be found guilty. He was not.

Then in this case which was most especially thought to be cut and dry, there was no gun. These teens were in their own vehicle listening to music. The man who opened fire fired ten shots, continued to fire as they started to flee. Then goes to a hotel, orders a pizza, has a drink and does not ever call authorities.

So it was believed, how could you not get a conviction in this case? And once again, they look at Angela Corey and right or wrong, the criticism may be they didn't go after aggressively enough. That somehow they thought this was a done deal.

So, there is a protest going on right now, marchers are going over to the prosecutor's office. And they're demanding her resignation because this is simply not going to go over well in this community. It may be some conviction. It is not what they see the justice that is needed for a 17-year-old youth -- Don.

LEMON: They are demanding her resignation because of this and because of the George Zimmerman verdict?

SAVIDGE: Yes, it's a culmination of things, but I'm sure it's this case and the Zimmerman case where people feel that she has just not properly handled it.

I'm not, you know, I don't know Angela Corey on a personal level. I know her on a professional level. She's an extremely aggressive prosecutor. Remember one of the charges brought against her was she had overcharged George Zimmerman. That was a criticism.

On this particular case, there's been criticisms now she did not bring other witnesses to bear that could have more strongly condemned the character of Michael Dunn. There are some that have not been called and were not called at trial. There were other instances they believe the prosecutor's office here just didn't really go at it with everything they had.

LEMON: Hey, Marty --

(CROSSTALK)

SAVIDGE: -- now because there is no conviction.

LEMON: Hey, M, how big of a ground swell? You said they're marching over to the office. Are we talking about a large group, or do you know?

SAVIDGE: No, this was never like what you saw at the Zimmerman trial where you had hundreds of people show up. Probably the max you saw at the courthouse this evening was around maybe 100, 150 people. So, no, you know, this trial did not reach the sort of level of local outrage and protest that you had seen during the Zimmerman trial.

That's not to say people aren't outraged. I'm just saying that those who showed up at the courthouse demonstrated out here, there were really only two dozen during the trial and more today because it was a Saturday. Just not the same, and yet you can anticipate there's probably going to be a ground swell as word spreads that Jordan Davis and his family didn't get the justice that many believe he should have received.

LEMON: Martin Savidge, very great perspective. Martin, don't go anywhere because I'm going to come back to you throughout this hour. We're almost to the top of the hour and on. Martin Savidge down in Jacksonville, Florida, and he has been, as I said, parked there and even before this trial, and even before reporting on this and doing some great reporting. So, thank you, Martin.

I want to get now to Jane Velez-Mitchell.

Jane, Martin Savidge brings up a good point. He's going to jail for at least 60 years, right? Twenty, 20, 20 on the attempted murder, 15, 75, probably for the missile -- tossing the missile.

But none of it is for Jordan Davis. They have not reached a verdict. It was a mistrial when it comes to that.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST (via telephone): Well, listen, Angela Corey, with all due respect, is in deep denial. I mean, when she says we put on everything we possibly could, no, they didn't. And I said it during the course of the trial.

You know, the prosecution doesn't have to technically prove motive, but if you want to win, you have to prove a more powerful motive than I was irritated at being disrespected. The defendant, Dunn managed to repeat over and over again he was scared, he was terrified. They didn't counteract that with a more powerful motive and there was a more powerful motive.

Now, as for Cory Strolla, the defense attorney, saying in his news conference moments ago that I've never seen signs of racism on the part of Mr. Dunn -- well, guess what? He wrote a jailhouse letter saying the jails are full of blacks and all act like -- this is a quote, "This may sound a bit radical, but if more people would arm themselves and kill these bleeping idiots when they're threatening you, eventually they'll take the hint and change their behavior."

If that isn't a motive, I don't know what is, Don, and never got in front of the jury. And I could go on and on. You don't even have to bring in the rational aspect. The fact that he was at a wedding and he was drinking at the wedding, he initially lied on the interrogation tape and said he had one drink plus a toast. His girlfriend said he had at least three, maybe four rum and cokes.

He was buzzed. It was an emotionally charged night. His son had no relationship with him. He had seen him three times in the last 15 years. He was in turmoil. And Jordan Davis walked into his life at the wrong time and it was a perfect storm. Even if they had said that, this is the problem with these prosecutors -- they don't understand human psychology that really ultimately when people make a decision, it's got to come from the gut and they didn't give them that gut reason. That's why they lost.

LEMON: His fiancee said it. His fiancee said on the air, he said to me, I hate that thug music. We've been talking about that word and we've been talking about her testimony, Jane Velez-Mitchell. What the heck did that mean if that doesn't prove, you know, thug music, if that doesn't prove there was some racial motivation here?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, this letter co-signs exactly what she said because his first line in his jailhouse letter is the jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs. That dovetails precisely with what the girlfriend said.

Had they introduced that letter, it would have provided corroboration that he is used to using that word. But they never did.

Now, maybe they wouldn't have been able to get it in, but did they try to get it in? No. So, when Angela Corey said, we put on everything we possibly could, she's wrong. They didn't, in my opinion.

LEMON: Jane Velez-Mitchell -- I appreciate your honesty and candor. Thank you very much, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Yes. And you want more honesty and more candor? Doesn't get more real than this -- Nancy Grace on the other side of the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: I'm Don Lemon.

Our breaking news tonight, a Florida man charged with killing a back teenager will spend decades in prison. The jury in the Michael Dunn case deliberated for more than 30 hours over 4 days before returning its verdict. Dunn was found guilty on four of five counts and faces up to 75 years in prison if not more.

But the jury could not reach a verdict on the most significant charge, first-degree murder, and Dunn is to be retried on that count. It was a mistrial on that count.

Seventeen-year-old Jordan Davis was shot and killed in November of 2012 after a confrontation over a loud music in Jacksonville, Florida.

I want to get now to CNN's Nancy Grace who has been paying close attention to this.

I told our audience, Nancy, before the break, you want real, here it is. HLN's Nancy Grace.

Nancy, what do you -- what do you make of this?

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST (via telephone): Thank you for inviting me on. I've been literally on pins and needles as we all have waiting for this outcome. This is what I think happened. I think somebody was torn up on self-defense. Even if it was not a legitimate self- defense, because there clearly was no gun in that car. In fact, Michael Dunn under police questioning even admitted seeing the gun, may have been in his imagination. So obviously it was not self- defense.

But clearly as to Jordan Davis, somebody on that jury thought, well, did he think Davis was coming after him? The other three boys clearly were not coming after him. There's not even a doubt. I think that's how they got to that verdict. Somebody was hung up and they refused to compromise even on a lesser included such as voluntary.

LEMON: Nancy, we have been talking about the not being able to come to a consensus about this first-degree murder charge, and the value of young black lives. As a former prosecutor and as someone who tackles this every single day on HLN and on CNN and on ABC, is there legitimacy to what people are saying about that after this non-verdict on that first count?

GRACE: Well, I feel -- let me -- not defeated because he's looking at 60 to 90 years behind bars because it's a gun charge. They will not run at the same time. They will not run concurrently. These charges which carry 20 to 30 on each one will run consecutively. That could either be 20, 20, 20 or 30, 30, 30. That's 90 years behind bars. That will be the sentence. It's a life sentence for him. So, that's not what you're talking about, it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Jordan Davis.

And there was a particular picture, I don't know if you have it, of his father putting his tie on him, and I just know that's the first time he ever wore a tie. I remember the first time I put a tie on my little boy, John David. It was a clip-on for Easter, but I remember it. And when I look at that picture and I think of Jordan Davis, that boy, he was a boy. He was a child. Unarmed. Gunned down like that.

And the way he died, you know, he died in the back seat of a car. He started to die in the back seat of a car. His friends tried to save him. He was choking on his own blood, gasping, trying to breathe. They race back to the gas station. They pulled him out and that's where he died on the parking lot of a gas station.

And it just gets me so upset. Gun violence is a societal issue which is bigger than this jury. But the fact that in Florida we now have two high-profile cases where a young black male is gunned down, unarmed, gunned down, and I just don't -- I don't get any satisfaction from it. I mean, yes, I'm happy Dunn's going away. He's going away and it's a life sentence. But still, that count one is just hanging there in the air. And if I were prosecuting this case, I know it doesn't make sense to all the defense attorneys, I'd retry it. I'd get in there with a different jury and retry the case of Jordan Davis.

LEMON: Nancy, you know what, you bring up a very good point. As you were talking about that, I'm thinking about I'm not a father, I'm thinking about my young nieces and my young nephews. One, I just had a new baby great-grand nephew. He is my heart. We're all children at one point. 17 years old is a child.

GRACE: It is a child. And I saw Jordan Davis' father sitting in court, and he seems to be such a kind man. He was just looking up. It looked to me like he was praying. He was looking up and saying something under his breath and his eyes were just brimming with tears during the trial. I just don't think I could stand it. I don't think I would have the strength to sit in that courtroom and listen to that evidence, but he did.

LEMON: Yes. Nancy, you know, we -- everyone is so afraid to even touch on race. We get so much criticism when we talk about it. You or I. Whether we're black or white. People are saying, oh my God, you're playing the race card, stop talking about race. This is a huge factor in this case. Let's just be honest about it. And these cases --

GRACE: When I prosecuted in inner city Atlanta, I mean, most of my victims were African-American. Many of my -- I would say the majority of my perpetrators were African-American. And so race never ended up being an issue in most of the cases that I tried. But I agree with you. I think that it is an issue whether anybody wants to talk about it or not because I guarantee you right now, it's my firm belief if the roles were reversed and a black youth gunned down a 45-year-old white software creator that was unarmed, we wouldn't even be talking. It would be over. You know, it would be done. Done and done. There would be a guilty plea and be over. But because the roles were reversed, there was a question.

See, I don't have a question. I believe what the boys in the car said. I believe what the police said and the crime scene tech said. There was not a gun. He was unarmed. And to me, just as in George Zimmerman, when one person has a gun and the other one is unarmed, that settles the argument.

LEMON: Nancy Grace. Thank you.

GRACE: Thank you, man. You know what, let's just pray this thing goes back to another jury trial.

LEMON: Amen.

GRACE: Amen.

LEMON: Amen. Wake up, America. Wake up. Jose Baez right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Don Lemon here. We are covering the breaking news on CNN, the verdict of the Michael Dunn and Jordan Davis murder case. And that is, well, it's mixed here because he's guilty on four counts and then a mistrial on the number one count which is the first-degree murder count. That will be retried according to the prosecutor in Florida. His defense attorney says I don't know why they would do it because he's already going to jail for at least 75 years.

OK. Someone who knows about trying cases and controversial ones is Jose Baez who was Casey Anthony's attorney. Where are you watching this from?

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY'S ATTORNEY (via phone): Miami.

LEMON: You're in -- so you are in Florida.

BAEZ: Yes, I am in Florida. Pretty much raised here all my life, and I know the Jacksonville circuit very well, as I have certain cases up there.

LEMON: What do you think?

BAEZ: And -- well, you know, I think the defense clearly raised sufficient reasonable doubt as it related to the justifiable use of force based on some of the juror's questions. You know, it's correct what you said. He's looking at a minimum of 75 years because of the 10, 20 life law we have here in Florida. If you pull a firearm and actually shoot someone, whether you kill them or not, it's a minimum of 25 years per count. So, you know, I'm a little surprised that the prosecutors are claiming that. They might just be doing that for a little bit of attention at this point. I don't -- you know, it's --

LEMON: But listen, did you get a chance, Jose, did you get a chance to listen to be Nancy Grace, HLN's Nancy Grace? Nancy Grace said because of this, because of the value of a life, because of the message it sends, I'm paraphrasing here t, it's not a direct quote from her. She said, if I were the prosecutor, I would retry this case on that first-degree murder charge just for the principle of it.

BAEZ: Well, if they're going to do it on the principle of it, they should do it with every case and not select only the high-profile ones to be -- to not take fiscal -- the fiscal considerations in mind. And I agree, I think if they feel they have a case, they should always charge for the maximum charge and try and go after that. They did in a sense. They got a conviction. He is going to die in prison. He will die in prison and there's no doubt about it. But there are, you know -- and I realize this is a very racially charged case. And it's warranted that it is. But there are many, many young black males and females that die every day and they get their day in court. They don't retry the cases because of just little concerns.

You know, if we're going to be straightforward and honest and look at the value of prosecutions and they don't take the fiscal considerations in mind, I think we should just be straight up and know that if he's going to die in prison, mission accomplished. I don't know what trying the case would do.

LEMON: I understand what you're saying. Mission accomplished. But he is dying in jail, in prison. Because of the attempted murder of three people who are still walking on the earth. He is not dying in jail because of a life that he snuffed out because he couldn't mind his own business. BAEZ: I, you know, I -- these are one of those situations where if you take it individually, absolutely try the case again, go for it. It's also going to depend on what the split was. We don't know yet how many jurors were leaning in the direction of a conviction and acquittal. If you had 11-1 that were in favor of acquittal, they may consider that.

LEMON: Jose, let me -- it just dawned on me, when you said, when you talked about why not do it with everyone if you're going to do it with high-profile cases. Jose, you know that's not how the world works.

BAEZ: Absolutely.

LEMON: So you take it where you can get it. We cover celebrities because they're celebrities. We cover this because of race and stand your ground and because of what happened with Trayvon Martin and with George Zimmerman. So if you have the attention in this particular case, why not take advantage of it to look at this considerably dumb law that somehow gets young black men killed more than any other demographic? Why don't you take it where you get it?

BAEZ: Well, that's a really good point, and if that's your goal, then I would support that. But I don't think you'd have a hard time telling that to the victims of the families whose cases aren't being retried and say why are not you doing it for us?

LEMON: Well, because -- well, the thing -- that is the thing, it's not. Their cases aren't being retried. They probably will never be reprised because they don't have the voice. So you have the voice in this case. That's what I mean. So wherever you get the attention, wherever you get the attraction, that's where you take it, and by retrying this, perhaps those people will get some attention and some action and some satisfaction.

BAEZ: Well, I wouldn't argue with you there. That's a very valid point. Absolutely. I just think, you know, working in the system every day, you see how the system works and you get frustrated on so many of the other cases that don't get the attention. And it usually is for one reason or another that, you know, it's a case that has legs in the media. So therefore, those cases get special attention and get all the resources thrown their way. Whereas the other ones don't.

And as someone working in the system, just sees it a little bit differently because we see the people we're trying to help every day and it's a majority, an overwhelming majority. Ninety-five percent of these cases are treated a certain way. And it's just those special ones that the media feels -- and you're talking about racism, white on black crime, but what about the victims where, I guess, they're black on black crime or Hispanic on Hispanic crimes. They're not getting that type of attention and they don't have the opportunity to have those, have their day in court, again, as need.

So, you know, it's one of those things, and unfortunately, the criminal justice system is such that you will never have all the answers for all the problems. LEMON: No, it's not a perfect system. I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. It's not a perfect system. And in many times in these cases when this happens, what about black on black crime, what about -- we get that. We talk about black on black crime.

BAEZ: Right.

LEMON: We should not go to the false equivalent. We know any time there's any crime for anyone of any race, it's awful. So, when it's time to talk about black on black crime, we'll talk about that, when it's time to talk about Hispanic on Hispanic crime, we'll talk about that.

This is not this case. This is a white guy who shot a teenager and tried to shoot at all the group of teenagers, black teenagers. The same thing Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman killed a black teenager. He is an Hispanic guy who killed a black teenager. Many people said he is a white-Hispanic, whatever. But that is what the case is. We should not be using that false equivalent, what about these other things? Let's stick to this one.

I appreciate you coming on CNN. I have to run. I got to get to another break.

And on the other side of the break, I have Paul Callan, who has been sitting by patiently. I have Joey Jackson, who has been sitting by patiently. I have Jeff Gardere who has been sitting by patiently. And we don't know what holly Hughes is doing, but we'll be back in a moment right after this.

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LEMON: Breaking news here on CNN, the verdict in the Jordan Davis murder trial. And I want you to listen to the parents of Jordan Davis. They spoke shortly after hearing the verdict against Michael Dunn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUCIA MCBATH, JORDAN DAVIS' MOTHER: It's sad for Mr. Dunn that he will live the rest of his life in that sense of torment. And I will pray for him and I've asked my family to pray for him. But we are so grateful for the charges that have been brought against him. We are so grateful for the truth. We are so grateful that the jurors were able to understand the common sense of it all.

RON DAVIS, JORDAN DAVIS' FATHER: It's been a long journey. About 450 days, and me and Lucy and our supporters have stood strong. I believe we've stood strong in the eyes of not only Jacksonville, not only Florida, not only the nation, but the world is looking at all of us here in Jacksonville. It's not in my nature, actually, to not lash out and to not say inflammatory statements or whatever. And I have to hold all that in because I think Jordan, my son, and Lucy's son, deserve the best representation that he could have gotten.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Michael Dunn is going to jail for a very long time. Up to 75 years. He was found guilty on four of the five charges against him. Three of them were for attempted murder. The jury could not reach a verdict on the most serious charge, first-degree murder, of 17-year- old Jordan Davis. Judge Russell Healey declared a mistrial on that count.

I'm joined now by Joey Jackson, Paul Callan, Jeff Gardere and Holly Hughes.

First to you gentlemen sitting here. Paul, you have been saying, listen, we really need to talk about not only the stand your ground in this particular case, the makeup of the jury and what else did you say?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the concept of demonizing the victim. That there was something improper that the defense did this. The defense does this in every self-defense case. They say, the guy I shot at was a bad guy. He was trying to kill me. This had nothing to do with race that that was done in this case. It's done in every case where self-defense occurs.

This happened because we have a state where you have ready access to weapons. It's combined with a population of white people who basically are afraid of black kids, and when that SUV pulls up next to you and the loud music is coming out, and the guy's wearing, you know, a hat and what was described by this guy as thug, you know, outfits and thug music, you got whites you have this irrational fear. You know something, this jury gave him the benefit of that irrational fear and that's not go change.

LEMON: Joey?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Listen, there's a few things here. The first thing here relates to the parents of Jordan Davis. We pray for them. We respect them. We admire them. The second issue relates to their son. The whole issue relates to their son. Will he die in vain or will he not? And I think in order for him not to die in vain, Don, there has to be two major discussions that are undertaken here. The first relates to the stand your ground law. Is it acceptable? We've been speaking about that. The duty to retreat. Or could you stand your ground and is it, indeed, a license to kill? Has to lead to a broader discussion. It has to touch state legislatures. And it has to be something that is really looked at whether or not that's the proper law that we're going to have and what could it lead to?

The second thing, not only stand your ground, but it has to lead to something that you've spoken a lot about, Don, and you've been real, you've been authentic, you've been sincere. And that's the issue of race. Is this going to be something where we can have the discussion and in having the discussion, will it be a dialogue about sensitivity, about tolerance, and about, you know, the broader issue and how we can sort of mend that.

LEMON: OK. Thank you. JACKSON: And that's what I have to add.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

Holly, a short amount of time here. Not to give you short riff. Go ahead.

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree 100 percent. We need to discuss repealing this law or at least changing it, modifying it, so that it's not open season. It's not a free for all. That's a problem.

LEMON: And Jeff, I got ten seconds.

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Let's not be embarrassed that we all have issues with race. Let's talk about it. Let's come together on this.

LEMON: Thank you very much to my panel. And I want to thank -- you guys have spoken from the heart. And I appreciate that. And I want to thank the viewers for watching CNN as well.

I've gotten your messages on social media. I've gotten your e-mails. I've gotten everything. I understand that. And I thank you so much for putting up with this. This is the honesty that I commit to you on CNN. Many of you are saying oh my God, what's going on with Don Lemon tonight? He's being unusually real. I'm always real. This is how I conduct myself on television and off with this honesty. If I was sitting at home tonight, I would be watching CNN.

I'm Don Lemon. This is CNN.

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