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One Of World's Biggest Drug Kingpins Back In Police Custody; Michael Sam Speaks Out; Yulia Tymoshenkoa, Former Ukraininan Prime Minister, Freed; U.N. Releases Disturbing Report Comparing Alleged Atrocities From North Korea; Changing The "Locker Room" Mentality; No Letup In Violent Unrest In Venezuela

Aired February 22, 2014 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It's getting close to the top of the hour, and thank you for joining us. I'm Don Lemon. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We are tracking three huge stories around the globe.

Right now, the legendary boss of Mexico's biggest drug cartel is behind bars in Mexico. El Chapo Guzman was once on Forbe's Most Powerful People list. He eluded capture for 13 years. You can hear how U.S. and Mexican agencies teamed up in a massive effort to bring down el Chapo.

Now we go to the Ukraine, and the bitter fight to control the former Soviet Republican. You'll hear about the push to boot the president.

And the prisoner freed today who is getting cheers from protesters: could she be the country's next leader?

Next though, to South America and the challenge to Hugo Chavez's revolution.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

LEMON: Can Venezuela's socialist government survive this wave of protests? We are going to take you there live.

Well, the man called the most notorious drug lord was corroded in front of cameras today after finally being captured. Mexican marines stormed the condo complex early this morning and arrested Joaquin Guzman known as El Chapo.

But as Gary Tuchman explains now, this is not the first time he has been caught. We want to warn you some that some of the images that you are about to watch are tough to see.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is El Chapo Guzman back in 1993 after he had been captured. But in 2001 he managed to escape from prison while hiding in a large cart. Marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroin and murder are all parts of his business portfolio. Violence scenes like these. Bodies stuffed in garbage bags, police executed and journalists disseminated (ph) are directed connected to the rap of the Sinaloa cartel. Much of the blood is spilled here in Culiacan, the largest city in Sinaloa and the nerve center for the cartel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Around here he is the legend of Sinaloa.

TUCHMAN: And that mystic is part of the reason people are protective of him. El Chapo was seen as a modern day robin hood helping the charm the Sinaloa economy with drug money. A common feeling, leave El Chapo and his cartel alone and he will leave us alone.

Just drive around here, you will see how El Chapo and members of his cartel are idolized. Storefronts bear the name of the cartel leader. And it's not uncommon see El Chapo printed on the tops of license plate frames.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Culiacan, Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: So what is to happens now to El Chapo? The drug lord is still wanted in U.S. in addition to Mexico. And one DA worker says if he is not extradited to the U.S. soon, he could escape again.

Our Nick Parker joins us now from Mexico City. Nick, what happened today?

NICK PARKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, Don, and as you mentioned, there was a raid at 6:40 a.m. this morning in the resort city of Mazatlan, a very popular destination of the U.S. tourists. And there was a culmination of something like four or five months of an operation. They believe in the last week or so, they captured one or two key lieutenants of El Chapo and they were able to yield some significant information on his whereabouts.

Just to give you an idea of what we have discovered in this compound of luxury condo which was quite extraordinary, and 13 other people were arrested along with El Chapo Guzman. They found more that 130 guns, two grenade launchers, 43 cars, and including 19 of those where were almost caught. So certainly, an extraordinary whole in this raid, Don. And a day, I think that many Mexicans will remember for some time.

LEMON: Could this lead to more cartel leaders, Nick, being arrested?

PARKER: Well, that is really a critical question. And I think that, you know, if you look at his own cartel, itself, the Sinaloa cartel, that is probably the first place that they are they going to be looking to try to break open his cartel, because it is really run in a semi autonomous kind of way. There are two or three other leaders that are also still at large and also still sort of highly senior, including what is presumed to be the second in command, a man known as El Myo (ph). So whether he is going to yield any information on them is seem somewhat unlikely, frankly. But what might happen is that he may perhaps while he is in custody trying to get information he may have on rival cartels such as the los zetas. But at this stage many analyst you speak to do not thing that this arrest will have a significant impact even on his own cartel -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Thank you very much, Nick Parker. Appreciate that.

And just to give you an idea of how big the cartels are, and why this is such an important arrest for the U.S., 90 percent of the cocaine that comes to the U.S. goes through Mexico. It is also the main supplier of marijuana and meth. And those U.S. sales put anywhere from 19 to $29 billion in the cartel's pockets. Unbelievable.

The next few hours may be crucial for the future of Ukraine. We are tracking huge developments in the bitter power struggle for a nation that was once part of the old Soviet Union. Ukraine's defiant president says s he is not resigning, but CNN has confirmed that he tried to leave the country by plane earlier today but was turned back by security forces. He said he tried to leave because of a coup attempt.

Parliament voted unanimously today to boost the president and hold new elections in May. Meanwhile, the protesters attempt to have taken control of the presidential home in Kiev. Also today, the nation's revolutionary hero, a former prime minister was released from prison. She told a crowd of people that Ukraine has finished with this dictator.

Let's go now to senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh in Kiev.

And Nick, break it down for us. What do you know about the president's whereabouts?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know he is in the east of the country. We know he released a video statement calling what happened the coup and saying that the laws are being passed by parliament very much take him out of power on legal. We don't actually have a personal guarantee as to where he is physically is, but there are suggestions in the Ukrainian media that he may have tried to leave the country which could be possible, actually.

I have to say, Don, he looks to be out of the picture now, really. There are no signs of security force here in central Kiev. That is what we have pro-ground (ph) a lot today so one police car. They have seem to have move back. Protesters are now running the streets. They often some of the sticks and helmets, running their own kind of local militia here. And the parliament is moving steam, full steam ahead to introduce their new series of leaders here.

Now, they have just called for a new elections in May for a new president and said that Viktor Yanukovich is not doing his job and therefore is out of the job. So, he is no longer president in the mind of the parliament. And we don't know how legal that is, but that is what they have done. Plus, appointing whole series new ministers and saying that the speaker will now fill the job of the (INAUDIBLE) president until those elections.

So, it seems like the opposition have swept in. They have that new powers and that was signed yesterday with European diplomats that Viktor Yanukovich agreed to, to make a whole host of changes here and effectively run that Viktor Yanukovich a relevant.

It is going to be pretty tough for him to come back from this. And now the question is, where do we go from here? We have had the Yulia Tymoshenko, as you mentioned, former prime minister in jail for corruption allegations that America thinks were politically motivated. He was abused in jail, went on a hunger strike.

She has emerged looking frail in a wheelchair and gave a very emotional speech. And I have to say a lot of the people in the crowd, remember her long history in the Ukrainian politics, remember the checkered past, corruption allegations against her. She is not a saint at all to many of these people, but she did cast herself as someone looking for forgiveness for all of Ukraine's politicians, trying to suggest that a new future could be ahead, and perhaps taking a claim for herself in the future as well saying that, you know, you people in the crowd will get no Ukraine, but the Ukraine that you want, and I'm the guarantor of that new Ukraine.

So, an interesting speech where she was very emotional, talked about the blood of those who died and trying to suggest that she, herself, was repentant for the decade-plus that she had been in politics here and the way that Ukraine in politically functions. That's been the field of a so much the protest behind me the corruption, the sense of business league looking after themselves rather than the people and then try to say that she might be the person who can take the country forwards.

LEMON: All right. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much for the report.

I want to go to South America now, where there are no signs of a lead up in the violent unrest in Venezuela. Supporter and opponents of the country's socialist government are back in the streets today. This seems an opposition protest in Caracas. Government supporters also turned out in the thousands for this protest in the capital. The unrest was brought about a number of things. Inflation topped 56 percent last year, crime rates are high, and shortages have left the store shelves bare.

We will have much more on the situation in Venezuela and a live report later on in the hour. So make sure you stay tuned.

Coming up, the FBI is heading to the University of Mississippi after a string of racially-charged hate crimes, plus an American student supplying -- studying abroad, I should say, in Italy found dead on railroad tracks in Rome, now police are trying to figure out how he got there. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A desperate search ends in tragedy if Rome. An American student has been found dead inside a railroad tunnel just days after he disappeared. John Durkin was taking part in a semester-long study abroad program through Trinity College in Connecticut. Two days ago, Durkin went to a bar with a group of friends and he never returned. Police say that his body had been run over by a train, but they are investigating how he died now.

Three fraternity brothers at the University of Mississippi are accused of vandalizing a civil rights monument on campus, and now the FBI is involved. Sigma Phi Epsilon is suspending its entire chapter over this. The statue honors James Meredith, the first African-American student at the school. The three white students are accused of wrapping a noose around the neck and putting a confederate emblem on his face.

And now, we are learning about another racial incident that happened off campus. But alumni say this is not the Ole Miss they remembered.

Our Nick Valencia has more.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, we know that the three suspects are 19 years old from Georgia, but freshman here enrolled here at the University of Mississippi. Now officials here on campus and the police are looking into the involvement or potential involvement in another case that happened the next day when a Kiesha Reeves, she is a third-year student here, and African-American student who says she was the victim of a racist attack. She had alcohol thrown on her, she says, from a moving car and also someone shouted the n-word at her.

Now we interviewed her and she took us back to the scene of the incident and told us what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIESHA REEVES, STUDENT: When I heard it, I popped my head up, and that is when he threw it, threw it out of the red cup.

VALENCIA: With what did he say.

REEVES: You bull (bleep), (bleep).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Now, Kiesha Reeves told us that she had no plans of transferring. In fact, she went on to highlight how impactful this experience has been for her and how much she loves the university and thinks that this is one of the greatest universities in the nation.

I posed that question to the chancellor here. In my interview with him, and it was a very frank and honest discussion about the historical intolerance here at the university, and how this University Ole Miss has been a lightning rod for racial tensions in the past years. He told us that that just not the way the current climate is here right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL W. JONES, CHANCELLOR, UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI: We do have systemic racism in our country. We have it in this state, and we have it in this university, much less so than in years past, but there is systemic racism everywhere in the world. I wish it weren't so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: University officials tell us that no arrest warrants have so far been issued. We are waiting for that, but a recent update is that the FBI is looking into whether or not they will level federal hate crimes against the three students. They will eventually go in front of the student judicial board where they could face expulsion and perhaps even be arrested -- Don?

LEMON: All right. Nick, thank you very much.

The U.N. has released a disturbing report comparing allege atrocities in North Korea to those carried out by the Nazis in World War II, the details and what has being done about it straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Here is a warning for you, this next story may be hard for you to watch. It is about a report with claims so harrowing and so damning, they have been likened to crimes we have not seen since Nazi Germany and World War II. I'm talking about the U.N. report released this week.

Four hundred pages filled with alleged abuses occurring inside of North Korea, claims of quote "extermination, murder, enslavement, torture, imprisonment, rape, forced abortions, and other sexual violence, persecutions on political, religious, racial and gender group, the forceful transfer of populations, the enforced disappearance of persons, and the inhuman act of knowingly causing prolonged starvation.

Here is CNN's Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Images of skeletal starving people eating snakes and rats. Emaciated human remains left for rats to eat, and drawings of detainees being tortured, abused. These etchings are by a former prisoner in a North Korean g gulag and they are part of the disturbing exhausted new U.N. report on human rights abuses in North Korea.

The U.N. commission of inquiry interviewed hundred of former prisoners and other witnesses. Survivor Jee Heon told of a starving woman who gave birth in the camp. A prison official heard the baby's cries and repeatedly beat the mother, Jee said, eventually forcing the mother to drown the child. JEE HEON, NORTH KOREAN PRISON CAMP SURVIVOR (through translator: With her shaking hands, she picked up the baby and she put the baby face down in the water.

NICHOLAS EBERSTADT, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: There is no other place on earth today that has the level of human rights abuse that North Korea has.

TODD: In the four large North Korean prison camps, housing more than 100,000 people, systemic starvation, torture, rape and execution were common place witnesses told the U.N. Former detainees and prison officials described grotesque methods of killing inmates, guards would forced them to dig their own graves, they said then hit them over the head with a hammer. And speaking to amnesty international, an anonymous form of prison official said another method was to have the inmate come to the office and sit down. Two people would be waiting with a rubber rope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If you strike someone with it, it will wrap around their neck and then you kill them the by pulling the rope.

TODD: This North Korean defector Kwon Young Hee who testified for the U.N. told CNN's Paula Hancocks how the prison guards killed her brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They tied him to the truck, she says, and dragged him for 45 kilometers. When he fell down, they kept driving.

TODD: American Kenneth Bae is believed to be held in one of those camps. The U.N. official who released this horrific report says this.

JUDGE MICHAEL KIRBY, U.N. COMMISSIONS ON HUMAN RIGHTS IN NORTH KOREA: Too many times in this building, there are reports that no action. Well, this the time for action.

TODD: Time for action, but will anything change inside North Korea?

EBERSTADT: The North Korean government wants to be recognized and to have international legitimacy, and in every venue where the North Korean officials walk internationally, this is going to stalk them.

TODD: The North Korean regime calls the U.N. findings a political plot, say quote "the human rights violations mentioned in the called report do not exist in our country." But this could be the most detailed account ever released of alleged human rights abuses inside North Korea.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Thank you, Brian.

It is hard to imagine not to taking action after a report like that one. But sadly, many analysts remain skeptical about the prospects of change there.

I want to bring in Christopher Hill. He is a former ambassador of Korea and served as chief U.S. negotiator with North Korea from 2005 to 2009.

Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us. There was so many atrocities laid out in this report. Do you think this report will force people to do something about it?

CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR: Well, you know, as you said, it is really hard to say for me for the short term. Certainly, this report is very credible. I think Judge Michael Kirby did an excellent job of categorizing and cataloging, really, the reports of abuse, having witness after witness corroborating each other. So this, I think, a very important report, and it has not been done before.

The issue is, of course, what you do. North Korea remains one of the most heavily sanctioned countries on the face of the earth. And so, the issue is can we get other countries who have really some leverage with North Korea namely China to say enough is enough.

So nothing really changes in the playbook. It is back to China, and to try to make the point to China that if you have aspirations in this world, you cannot be counting this little country as your friend.

LEMON: Yes. And this is really about China, and China has to step up being the closest ally. But listen, it is important to have you here, and I am glad that you are here tonight, because you have a unique perspective. You are one of the few people who have actually been to North Korea. Do you see any prospect of change inside North Korea and did this report actually surprise you?

HILL: The report did not surprise me, because again, Michael Kirby is extremely respected judge. And all of these reports are reports that there have been rumors about these for years and years, and the difference here is how well it was put together. So the issue is how can North Korea change? Certainly, China comes in as a sort of unindicted co-conspirator in this report, because the Judge Kirby pointed out on North Korean refugees often arrived in China only to be sent back to North Korea for a very uncertain future. So I hope China is taking that on board and kind of looking at their owned responsibilities as the U.N. member state.

Beyond that, I think it is very important that somehow North Korea gets opened up. I'm sure the more it is opened up, the more chance there is for change. Right now, however, there's no civil society there. There is no opposition. It is really the most repressive regime on the face of the earth as Nick Eberstadt said in the setup piece. So the part has been to try to get in there and try to begin a process of change. And so far, that has been very difficult.

LEMON: We have been following the case of Kenneth Bae, the American who has been jailed in North Korea for 15 months. We have been following that very closely and trying to help with the campaign that wants to bring him back. What are the odds that he is experiencing or seeing firsthand the crimes outlined in the U.N. report?

HILL: I suspect he's been kept in some kind of isolation. I doubt that he has seen these kinds of reports of torture that have been so vividly described. I doubt that, but I am not sure at all. Certainly, he's been in some part of the penal system, but I suspect they have kind of kept him somewhat apart from other North Koreans that are held.

It is very unclear what the North Koreans have in mind for Kenneth Bae, one does get the impression at times that they are looking to release him. But one also gets the impression that often in the circumstances, you have a disagreement on whether to release him, and they end up not releasing him. And I think that is what is going on. There are some kind of disagreement about what to do.

LEMON: All right. Christopher Hill, thank you very much. We really appreciate your perspective here on CNN.

And once again, my promise to the family of Kenneth Bae, we here at CNN, will stay here with this story with the social media to do what it takes. And to learn what you can do, make sure you go to bring back Bae, @bringBaeBack on twitter.

Meantime, and openly gay football player likely to make his NFL debut, his NFL debut this fall, and will he be accepted into the league that is already dealing with the case of bullying on the same team, on one team I should say. And we are diving into that discussion about the locker room mentality and supporter coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The world of professional sports is about to change forever. One reason is Michael Sam. A 24-year-old defensive end and aspiring NFL player who recently revealed that he is gay. This weekend, he is at the NFL combine where future draft picks go through a battery of tests for NFL teams. And just a few hours ago, he talked to reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL SAM, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI FOOTBALL PLAYER: Good afternoon. My name is Michael Sam, and I play football for the University of Missouri. Oh heck, yes, I wish you guys would just say, hey, Michael Sam, how is football going? How's training going? I would love you to answer me that question, but, it is what it is. And I just wish you guys will see me as Michael Sam the football player, instead of Michael Sam, the gay football player.

I just want to do what I love to do and that's to play football. If the Miami Dolphins drafted me, I will be excited to be part of that organization, but I'm not afraid about -- that go into that environment. I know how to handle myself. I know how to communicate with my teammates. I know how to communicate with the coaches and other staff, whoever I need to communicate with.

I have been in locker rooms where all kinds of slurs have been said, you know, and I don't think anyone means it. I think the little naive and uneducated, but, you know, as time goes on, everyone will adapt. If someone wants to call me a name, I will have a conversation with that guy and hopefully won't lead to anything else. And since I'm not an NFL active roster right now, that is my only thought is to be on that roster, and so, that's my 100 percent focus on this.

I'm not focusing on everything else but to earn my spot an NFL team. I love my fans. I love Mizzou. One of the best schools out in the nation, and then, after what they did this past weekend was just amazing. I wanted to cry, but I'm like, I'm a man, but --

(LAUGHTER)

SAM: -- so I just -- I wanted to thank everyone who supported me and especially Mizzou, the students, my coaches, the whole organization and every Missouri fan, and M-I-Z-Z-O-U. I'm a tiger forever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Once drafted, Michael Sam will become the first openly gay athlete in any of the major pro sports leagues.

Meantime, the Miami Dolphins, though, have fired an assistant coach and a trainer for their alleged roles in the bullying of former Dolphins lineman, Jonathan Martin. Martin's former teammate, Richie Incognito, has also been singled out for abusing Martin. So, if Michael Sam is the future and the Dolphins locker room mess is the path, a pass where gay athletes were invisible and bullying was accepted as is not part of the locker room culture.

CNN commentators Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson are here. Also, Terrence Moore, sports contributor to CNN.com. Terrence, you have covered pro-athletes for three decades now. The report on Incognito showed how bad a locker room can be. Is this what Michael Sam faces you think?

TERRENCE MOORE, CNN.COM SPORTS CONTRIBUTOR: Don, I'm going to tell you something here, you know, as you say, I've been in professional locker rooms and college locker rooms since the mid-1970s and the dirty little secret is or not so great secret is there have always been gay players on all these teams, major college teams, pro-teams, and their teammates have known about it, the coaches have known about it, and that has not been that big of a deal.

As a matter of fact, just a couple of weeks ago, I had lunch with a good friend of mine who's a former NFL player who played for a prominent NFL team, and he talked about all of the gay players that he had through the years and it wasn't a problem just as long as they won. Now, here is where the problem is going to come from, everybody else.

The media is going to come from the front office, is going to come from fans, because this will be the mother of all distractions, is bigger than just a sports story and one thing historically that the teams don't handle very well are distractions.

LEMON: OK. Terrence, listen, I have to play the devil's advocate for you a little bit here, and speaking to people who are inside the locker room as well. They're saying he is going to face problems when it comes to teams. He is going to face problems in the locker room. And that for the most part, especially the NFL, all of professional sports, but for the most part, the NFL very homophobic, and people are concerned about the locker rooms. You say no?

MOORE: I would say he's not going to have major problems and then I'll tell you why, my personal observation, what I've seen over 30- something years and from talking to other players, and I'm telling you --

LEMON: But are those people you're talking about, are they open, are they out, or is it just rumored or are they down low?

MOORE: They're obviously not open, because this is the first openly gay player that we know.

LEMON: Well, that's a big difference then, Terrence.

MOORE: But, Don, that's why I'm saying that the problem is going to come from the distraction that's going to be caused by the media attention that's going to be given to this, now all the focus that's going to come from it is not going to come from his teammates, it's going to come mainly from these other people that's going to make it a big deal.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree.

LEMON: I don't know if I agree with that either, but go ahead, Marc.

HILL: There's very much a "don't ask, don't tell" mentality. You know, I've spent a great deal of time with the NBA and I know countless NBA players and I've been in many NBA locker rooms and there are always murmurs of who's gay. The NFL has the same thing. There are rumors and murmurs. And certain people, people who suspect they're gay are kind of know they're gay, but it's still governed by a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Players don't have to deal with it. They don't have to think about it if they don't want to. And in the NFL, there are a large number of players who simply don't want to acknowledge that gay people belong in those locker rooms and now that it's in their face, now that they can't deny it, it's going to be a problem.

I've spoken to many players off the record who say it's going to make them uncomfortable. Some people have gone on the records saying they don't want to play next to gay players. The league is going to --

(CROSSTALK)

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can we look at Missouri, though? He came out to his entire team. Is there anybody that said there was a problem there? And you are dealing with serious -- it's not -- hold on one second, let me finish. It's not as different as we're trying to make it out to be. You're talking about the top levels of the NCAA and the top football conference, hands down America, with a lot of players that were, in fact, going to probably go pro or play overseas.

And he was embraced by his teammates and a college locker room is just as vile and competitive as an NFL locker room. The only difference is a lot of them in the NFL have a lot of money and a lot of them in college don't. They're just the same. There is many punks and bullies and jerks in those locker rooms.

I don't think we're giving these guys, teammates enough credit. And I think he probably knows based on the reaction he had at his own university when he came out that it's not going to be this incredibly awkward thing in the locker room that, otherwise, I don't think he would have been so bold. He saw what happened in college.

LEMON: I don't think it's going to be an incredibly awkward thing in the locker room, because he's been in the locker room the entire time that he's gay, and as Terrence said, there have been gay people in the locker room since probably since professional sports started.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: But he was open in Mizzou.

MOORE: But you know what, I can't stress this enough. I can't stress this enough. And I go back to the person I had lunch with, this is a very prominent NFL team, OK? And so, if it's not a problem for the team like that where they know this guy is -- and there were several guys, by the way, that were gay and they were still winning, just win, baby.

That's the old adage here around the NFL. It's not going to be a problem, but here's the thing. He's got to perform. If he doesn't perform, that's when the problem will begin.

HILL: No, absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: And Don, let me say this, too.

LEMON: And Marc and Ben, I'll let you continue the thought on the other side. We have a lot to talk about here, including Michael Sam says he is ready for the NFL, but is the NFL ready for Michael Sam? What happens if things go wrong on or off the field? We're going to consider the potential risks and the rewards facing the NFL. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. So, we're talking pro sports and a locker room culture with three of our regular commentators, Marc Lamont Hill, Ben Ferguson is here, along with Terrence Moore, sports contributor to CNN.com. So, before we talk about the Miami Dolphins here, let's talk about Michael Sam just a little bit more. And you were talking about locker room culture. I cut you off, Marc.

HILL: Yes.

LEMON: So, you said, you know, you talked to a lot of people. I was actually having dinner last night, a former athlete who said, you know, especially the NFL, very homophobic, but also, there a lot of people who are on the down low who meaning who were gay or do things on the side and don't tell people, and those are going to be the most vocal people. Do you agree with that?

HILL: I mean, that often happens. I mean, think about like Eddie Long leading marches against gay people, and then turns out -- he had all kinds of stuff going on inside of his sanctuary. You know, oftentimes, the people who protest this too much are the people engage in the gay activities that they're scared of and that they demonize. In the NFL, there are many players who are violently anti-gay, and I don't know if they're gay or not or if it's on the down low or not, but I know there is some connection between the two.

But even if they're not gay, the point still is, they may create a hostile environment. One difference between him being in college, well, he's the best player on the team, and one of the best players in the world, and he's the top banana. You really can't say too much about him. Now, he's entering a locker room as a rookie, with his power structures, with his order, with his certain culture, and depending on the team, he may have some problems. I think he can defeat it, though. I know --

LEMON: Hang on. I want Terrence to jump in, because he seems to be --hang on, hang on, Ben. Terrence, he seems to be stealing your line here.

MOORE: Yes, he did, but that's OK. That's OK. But I wanted to say this, OK, and this might surprise you, the best thing to happen to Michael Sam this week is the NFL is coming off the worst two weeks in its history, OK? At least off of the field. You have Ray Rice dragging his unconscious girlfriend or fiancee out of an elevator in a casino, OK?

Then, you've got Darren Sharper who's one of the greatest defensive backs of all time drugging or allegedly drugging women and raping them across various states. Just a couple of days ago, you had Fred Davis, a tight end for the Washington redskins being arrested for DUI and come to find out this is about his 23rd or 24th arrest involving driving in the last five or six years.

My point is this, the NFL is going to be overly concerned that something bad is going to happen with Michael Sam. You got Roger Goodell, the commissioner, who's always talking about protecting the shield. I mean, Roger Goodell might personally safeguard, be the bodyguard of Michael Sam for the rest of his career in the NFL.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: Hang on, Ben. Hang on. When you put it in that context and you think about it. You have this nice, clean cut kid. He's and very well-spoken. He's very good football player. He appears to be a really good student. I don't know about his grades or anything -- but I imagine his grades are good as well. He said he's as clean cut guy and it's like -- so, he's -- so, he's gay -- who cares?

FERGUSON: You're going to have teammates who are going to protect him as soon as he makes friends with him. That's one of the things that happen within a locker room as you get many groups of friends that who eat dinner together and go out. But the other thing is the NFL is not going to be stupid with this. And the owners of the team, and the game, whoever is in charge, the GM or the coach are going to make it very clear.

Whoever drafts Sam, they are going to have a very blunt team, meaning, that if anybody uses any of these language, any of these words that are offensive, any slurs, gay slurs, you're going to be an incredibly hot water and maybe off of this team if not indefinitely off this team. And I think the NFL will probably send that message as well.

So, you're going to come in, I think, with a P.R. aspect that is no team is going to be want to be known as the team that is an anti-gay team just because one athlete or two athletes comes out, and says, I'm stupid about a teammate. They're going to do everything they can to make sure it doesn't happen.

LEMON: Don't say comes out, because people might get the wrong impression. I just wanted to jump in there.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: That's a terrible joke. I know everybody in the newsroom is going, oh.

FERGUSON: Wow! Wow!

LEMON: I just needed to move on to the next item. That was bad. Sorry. My apologies. Let's talk about the Miami Dolphin. A real mess in the locker room there. The Jonathan Martin bullying investigation has now led to the firing of an assistant team coach and the team trainer, which means the bullying and the abuse even went beyond Martin's other teammates. Terrence, how does an NFL locker room get so toxic that a player quits in mid-season and team staff get fired.

MOORE: Well, I mean, let's start with this. The NFL did not do itself any favors here because they literally threw Jim Turner, the offensive line coach for the Dolphins under a bus, because as I told you last week, Don, he was not the only coach who knew about this. He's not the only person in the front office that knew about this. In an NFL environment, these people know everything about all of these players. So, let's get that out of the way.

The other thing is this is a unique situation. And I know that from personal observation, and just from doing reporting. This was is so beyond anything that anybody has ever seen before, and people always talk about the hazing in the NFL like this has been a historical thing, and it has been to a certain extent.

But I tell you, back in the 1970s, I knew Paul Brown very well who founded two NFL teams, the Browns and the Bengals. He never allowed hazing. He goes back to the 1940s. Bill Walsh never allowed hazing. So, this is a recent phenomenon and this particular situation is beyond anything we've ever seen.

LEMON: I've got to get Ben in because we may lose Ben's satellite because we've let this go on a long time, but here's what I want to ask, it is odd to me and listen I'm not -- it's just odd that these players have 1,000 texts between each other. I mean, people that I'm dating, I don't text a thousand times. Something a little odd going on here that I'm not exactly sure. Anyway, go ahead, Ben.

FERGUSON: I don't know if it's odd. I think you're dealing with a couple of guys here that are just off of the reservation. They had obviously a unique relationship, friendship, I should say with a lot of ups and downs and a lot of testosterone, with a lot of anger issues. I mean, I don't know if we're going to figure this one out any time soon, but I do think it is definitely outside the norm of a normal locker room.

Guys that I know that play at the highest level, this is not the normal and I don't think the NFL is probably going to ever let this happen again, because the P.R. war for them is just too bad. I mean, you look at this and you look at the Saints with, you know, with money on people for getting them hurt, they don't need anything for the next five years to get that back to even.

LEMON: Hurry up, you're going to disappear. Marc, give me a quick response.

HILL: Yes. I'm not against a little bit of, you know, playful hazing, making people carry bags, you know, making people run stupid errands. I mean, I think that's part of how you build culture and comradery. But what we saw this time was an outlier. It was extreme. It was extraordinary, but I'm not convinced the other locker rooms don't have the same kind of action.

I think we saw the perfect storm where you had somebody who's not -- capable of handling this stuff. You had some really bad guys involved. You had a team --

LEMON: I said quick.

HILL: -- you had a team that's totally indifferent to it.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Thank you, guys. I love talking to you, guys. We should do a whole show with you three.

MOORE: Let's do it.

LEMON: We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: There are no signs that the violent unrest in Venezuela will stop any time soon. Thousands of protesters, both for and against the country's socialist government are back in the streets today in the South American country's capital. CNNs Karl Penhaul and Rafael Romo are both in Caracas, and they join us now. Rafael, I want to start with you. Describe what you have seen today.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SR. LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Well, just a few moments ago, Don, we witnessed explosions here in this area where we are in the district of Chacao here in Caracas. Apparently, there was an effort by the part police trying to disperse a protest not too far from here. it's the opposition trying to blockade some of the streets here in this part of the city.

And this is end of day where both the government and the opposition had dueling protest with both sides throwing threats against each other, and increasing the tone, the level of the rhetoric. So, it's been a day that especially just a few moments ago that definitely makes you, makes you believe that the violence is not going to end up any time soon, Don.

LEMON: Hey, Carl, you know, a lot of people are wondering if this could be the beginning of the end for Venezuela's socialist government. Any thoughts on that from you?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what the opposition has tried to do is to take the politics on to the street, and at the same time, what the government is warning is that this is the start of a slow moving coup attempt to topple a Democratically-elected government. That, however, may have been a miscalculation by the opposition.

At the end of the day, the opposition draw the most part of the support from the wealthier, the middle-classes, and they're not used to being out on the street where as the pro-government loyalists are the guys that were born on the streets, that have grown up on the streets, and for the last 16 years, that Venezuela has been going through the socialist experiment. Most of their politics has been played out on the street.

And so, the opposition may not be on an even footing with the pro- government forces here. But of course, there is a wild card in all of this, because the government is accusing the United States of funding and helping orchestrate some of these protests. That could also be a decisive fact. We've also got to see if the opposition forces have the stamina to keep pushing the government. Also the oppositions have the reins of some parts of the economy as well.

And the government is alleging that the opposition is trying to put a stronghold on the economy to bring the country to its political knees, Don. LEMON: All right. Rafael Romo and Karl Penhaul, thank you both very much. Appreciate it.

Coming up --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you got the difference between how people react when he tries to break into the car versus when I try to break into the car. Let's find out.

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LEMON: Well, that should be interesting. We're going to show you how this plays out next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, with just one day left at the winter Olympics, the U.S. team has dropped out of the lead in the medal race. USA Olympians now trail Russia by two medals and Norway is just one behind the U.S. Men's hockey didn't help the U.S. cause, well, because the men lost their chance at gold or silver after falling to Canada yesterday. Then the team missed out on the medal completely by losing to Finland today, five to nothing.

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