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Russia Test Fires Intercontinental Ballistic Missile; Obama And Kerry: Russia Creating Pretext For Military Aggression In Crimea, Ukraine; Pistorious Defense Questions Witness Credibility

Aired March 04, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news here on CNN. Russia has test fired a missile. Let's get straight to CNN Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr for the latest. What's going on here, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, two U.S. officials tell us that they can confirm in the last four hours Russia fired an intercontinental ballistic missile, test fired. It was a test and a test only. It launched and landed in Kazakhstan, a remote area that the Russians use for test firing these kinds of missiles.

Well, U.S. officials also tell us is they knew this was going to happen. Under arms control treaties, the Start Treaty which regulates missiles, the Russians notified the U.S. They gave them a four-hour window in which they expected to conduct the test. All within the rules and regulations of the Start Treaty.

So the U.S. was notified that this test firing of an intercontinental ballistic missile was going to happen and they were notified before the crisis in Ukraine. This had been on the books we are told for some time.

But nonetheless, getting a lot of attention because in these periods of tension, people want to know exactly what's going on and we are told that this one, the U.S. knew about it, expected it, saw it coming, and that it was in fact purely a test. It's something the Russians do fairly often and so does the United States -- Brianna.

KEILAR: So Barbara, from the sources you're talking to, they're not -- because Russia notified the U.S. before these events in the Ukraine erupted, they're not reading this as any sort of message, as any sort of muscle flexing or do they sort of think that it might be?

STARR: Well, I have to tell you, at this point we've talked to officials in a couple of different U.S. agencies that track this sort of thing and they're pretty, if you'll let me use the word, they're pretty chill about the whole thing. They're not too exercised about it.

They don't see it right now as any kind of flexing of muscle because the Russians had told them some time ago that they were planning to do it. I think they'll be a little more analysis, technical analysis of the missile, of the launch, exactly what the Russians did tell the U.S. And until then, the U.S. would come to a very final conclusion about it. But for now officials say they knew it was going to happen -- Brianna.

KEILAR: OK. Barbara Starr, stay with us. I'm going to bring in General Mark Kimmitt, retired, on the phone with me right now to talk a little about this and break this down.

So General Kimmitt, we heard Barbara Starr there explaining that this is something that happens with somewhat regularity. All well and OK under the Start Treaty, the nuclear arms reduction agreement between the U.S. and Russia. How do you read this, the test firing of an ICBM?

BRIG. GENERAL MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY (RET.) (via telephone): Well, I think Barbara has got it exactly right, that nobody seems to be particularly exercised about this at this time because there was pre- notification before the Ukraine crisis. But I think that recognizing the context of it, of the time we're in right now with some significant challenges going on between Ukraine and the United States, it probably would have been seen as a sign of good will on the part of President Putin if he had in fact put this to the side.

Now, the fact that he has gone ahead with it is not provocative, but I think a lot more comfort would have emerged had he actually cancelled this. I think Barbara is right that we can't read too much into this, but in the middle of a crisis I would have been much more -- feeling much more sanguine about this had he put this to the side rather than go ahead with the test.

KEILAR: So let me ask you this. If he had not gone ahead with this, and we should remind our viewers that this was already on the books, already on the calendar before this crisis in Ukraine erupted, if he'd put it aside, it might have been seen as a sign of good will. But let's look at it perhaps from Russia's perspective.

Do you think one of the reasons that he perhaps did go ahead with it was because it's a show of strength in a way? This is on the books, we're going to continue doing this, we are not going to put this to the side.

KIMMITT: Well, I think that's exactly right. I think it's a "in your face" move that says regardless of what we're doing in Ukraine, we're going to go ahead with not only our activities in the Ukraine, we're also going to go ahead with our activities within the limits of the Start Treaty.

And to me the message I take away from this is that President Putin says what I'm doing in Ukraine is validated, what I'm doing with this missile launch is validated, and nobody can tell me that either of those activities are outside the balance of Russian priorities.

KEILAR: All right, General Mark Kimmitt, thanks for the explainer on that. Just to recap what we have been covering here just in the last couple of minutes, Russia has test fired an intercontinental ballistic missile, this was something that was already on the calendar, Russia had already alerted the U.S. that it was going to do this.

So it's not being read right now by experts, by observers as some sort of perhaps aggressive act or act that puts a statement out there more than perhaps just proceeding with this launch -- test firing, I should say, of a missile that was already on the schedule.

However, we'll continue to analyze this as we do, obviously, look at the situation in the Ukraine. We should mention as we understand it, according to Barbara Starr, that missile landed, we believe, in Kazakhstan.

So we're going to continue to follow that. Next we'll take a closer look at how President Obama has reacted to the situation in Ukraine. We'll be talking to experts on both sides of the aisle about his reaction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Breaking news just coming into CNN, Russia has test fired an intercontinental ballistic missile. Observers, and we should add some context to this, observers watching this say it's not perhaps as alarming as it sounds. There is no clear link here to what's going on in Ukraine, where Russian troops have come into the autonomous region of Crimea in Ukraine.

This was actually something, we understand, that was on the calendar before. Nonetheless, it comes at a very sensitive time so let's go now to Moscow where CNN's Phil Black can give us some context here.

Phil, listening to, for instance, some of the sources talking to CNN's Barbara Starr, there doesn't seem to be a tremendous amount of alarm, but still when Russia does something like this, launching -- test firing an ICBM during such a sensitive time, there may also be a bit of a message, no? What do you think?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I don't think there's anything on the surface of this, Brianna, to draw any nasty conclusions about this.

KEILAR: OK.

BLACK: I think it does just appear to be a regular scheduled test firing of an intercontinental ballistic missile. To be clear, what we know happened is that it's an older model, these are fired from mobile launches. This was fired in the south of the country near the area of Astrakhan.

Because it is an older model missile, it was not the missile itself being fired, but they were testing out some new warheads. We know that Russia has a big strategic nuclear arsenal. A lot of it is old, a lot of it is in need of modernization. They're spending a lot of money on it.

So these sorts of tests are indeed routine. We understand this has taken place under existing treaties with the United States and notice was given and so forth. So indeed any sort of missile launch can be dramatic in its own way.

But in this case we believe this was all routine, following procedure, and as you say, not linked in any way to existing tensions and certainly not linked to the events in Ukraine -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Just business as usual, it appears. Phil Black, thanks for explaining that to us. We appreciate it. Phil Black in Moscow.

Here's some of the other headlines out of Ukraine. Secretary of State John Kerry was in the capital of Kiev today meeting with the new government there. He toured the site of last month's deadly protests and both he and President Obama spoke out in support of Ukraine's government, contradicting Vladimir Putin's remark that Ukraine has no legitimate leadership now.

President Obama dismissed that claim, adding that Russia's aggression in Crimea is a violation of international law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I would also note, just, you know, the way that some of this has been reported, that the suggestion somehow that the Russian actions have been clever strategically. I actually think that this has not been a sign of strength but, rather, is a reflection that countries near Russia have deep concerns and suspicions about this kind of meddling and if anything, it will push many countries further away from Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now, Secretary of State John Kerry, who just left Kiev, for talks in Paris was even more forceful. He said all of Putin's claims about Crimea are false.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Not a single piece of credible evidence supports any one of these claims. None.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now adding to the tensions in Crimea, now occupied by thousands of Russian troops, are reports that Russian warships have blocked the narrow Kerch Strait between Crimea and Russia. In an earlier news conference, Putin denied that there were any Russian troops in Crimea.

He said that the 22,000 armed forces they are, quote, "self defense teams." Now here with me now to talk about some of the politics of this, Donna Brazile, Democratic strategist, and CNN political commentator as well as Ron Christie, Republican strategist and former special assistant to President George W. Bush.

Ron, I've heard a lot of Republicans say that Vladimir Putin watched President Obama last September balk at striking Syria and that they took that as sort of a sign of weakness, a sign that Putin could just waltz into the Ukraine without consequence. Do you agree with that?

RON CHRISTIE, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Good afternoon, Brianna. Yes, I do agree with that. I think it's more than just Syria, however. I think you go back to what we did in Libya. A dubiously legal campaign to overthrow the leadership of Moammar Gadhafi, but the United States was leading from behind.

Then he moved forward to Syria where the president said there were going to be serious consequences, a red line would be crossed if the use of chemical weapons were used. After that declaration, President Obama made that comment in August and of course, the Syrian president used chemical weapons on his people 14 times after the president made that declaration.

So, yes, I do think President Putin has taken the measure of our president and determined that he will not move in a very strong or forceful way to impose democracy where those who are seeking to take it away. So yes, I think he did take his measure of the president and found him lacking.

KEILAR: And, Donna, I imagine you see this very differently.

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Ron probably forgets because so many Republicans have selective memory syndrome that back in August of 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia. So look, we know that Putin is someone that is trying to recreate the former Soviet Union.

But the worst thing the president of the United States or anyone can do is act in extreme haste. President Obama has been very careful in making sure that our allies are informed, collecting information, making the right calls, I believe, not just in the situation in the Ukraine where, by the way, 95 people have been killed.

Shame on those Republicans who are spending so much of their political capital cheerleading Mr. Putin when they should be, you know, calling for a cease-fire to ensure that those who are still hospitalized have the care that they need. I'm glad that Secretary Kerry is there.

I think the president's response is the right response at this hour. It doesn't need to be a military response. They have already disbanded the G-8 meeting or the G-7 conference in Sochi. And President Obama needs to continue to act with the right judgment and not worry about what people are saying about him and what they're calling him, because it's all nonsense.

KEILAR: Before I let both of you go real quick, because we're running out of time here, I want to play devil's advocate with both of you real quick. Ron, to you first. Donna brought up 2008. One of the things President Bush was looking at doing was sanctions up against some of the same pressures that President Obama has, which is the European allies don't really want to go there. Doesn't he have a very limited range of policy proposals that he can take here?

CHRISTIE: No, I don't think he does. I think actually I would applaud the administration. I would think that the $1 billion in loan guarantees for Ukraine is a step in the right direction. But I think that the president should move very swiftly. I think Donna is right, not only do we suspend participation in the G-8 in Sochi, we should move to get Russia kicked out of the G-8.

I think we should impose economic sanctions. You look at their markets. Their markets are tanking in Russia. Why? Because they're very fearful of economic sanctions. So I think the president has many options yet to play.

BRAZILE: And freeze their assets. Go ahead.

KEILAR: And to you, Donna, because I want to talk to you about the "Washington Post" op-ed that we saw, it just slammed President Obama yesterday saying that he doesn't really -- his foreign policy isn't based -- it basically said that he's naive, that he's sort of thinking in a way that Putin is not.

That there isn't going to be aggressive responses and Putin is kind of thumbing his nose and saying, you know what, I'll decide that. I mean, what did you make of that, that claim that President Obama's view of the world is naive?

BRAZILE: First of all, I wish I was a cartoonist because I think I need to go ahead and reveal that President Obama has strong abs and specs so they can get off this notion that somehow a guy that can ride on a horse is tougher and stronger and more decisive. I totally disagree.

I think the president has used not just the right judgment in making these calls, but knowing that this is a very war-weary country. Military option is not the only thing we have at our disposal. We have so much in our diplomatic toolbox. Making sure that our allies -- get NATO involved.

Ensuring that we have NATO troops on the ground, ensuring that the people of the Ukraine can hold elections in May. There are many ways that we can stand back and stand up to Putin and going to war with Putin shouldn't be our only option.

So that some of these folks can get on TV and score political points because they're in danger of losing their primary races. It's just shameful.

KEILAR: Donna Brazile and Ron Christie, I thank you both for weighing in. Appreciate it.

BRAZILE: Happy Mardi Gras.

KEILAR: Happy Mardi Gras to you too.

Now coming up at the top of the hour, Anderson Cooper will be anchoring live from Kiev. He'll have much more coverage from the region, including a live interview with a former State Department spokesman.

And up next, the latest developments in the Oscar Pistorius trial. The former Olympian, nicknamed the "Blade Runner," charged with murdering his girlfriend. Hear why today's testimony could be the biggest blow to the prosecution' case so far.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Blood-curdling screams and shots in the night are taking center stage for a second day in the murder trial of Oscar Pistorius. The amputee track star nicknamed the "Blade Runner" is accused of murdering his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, on Valentine's Day last year in his South African home.

Pistorius says he mistook her for a burglar, but prosecutors maintained he killed the young model in cold blood after an argument. Pistorius' neighbor returned to the stand, tearfully recalling what she heard the night Steenkamp was killed.

But it was this moment when the defense team cast doubt on her ability to hear the screams that may make the biggest impact.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRY ROUX, DEFENSE LAWYER: A 177 meters away. There were only a moment before the shots and the shots of a person in a confined space, you could hear increased anxiety, fear, and emotion in that moment? Because moments later, you heard that out of a closed toilet in a house 177 meters away?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's correct, I heard that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN legal analyst, Sunny Hostin, joining me from New York to talk about this. Thanks for being here, Sunny. It's -- the testimony is pretty amazing. It's -- what do you think about this? Is this a huge blow to the prosecution? What did he say, 157 meters away, how did you hear this?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, you know, I don't think it's a big blow to the prosecution primarily because this is not a jury trial. Since 1969 --

KEILAR: That's right.

HOSTIN: -- South Africa doesn't have jury trials, these things are tried in front of a judge. So you have someone that is a lawyer, that is a judge, that is also playing fact-finder. So no one witness is going to be so not credible that this judge is going to acquit this defendant.

So while it was a good day, we know that he has -- Oscar Pistorius has a fantastic attorney, this is the same attorney that represented the defendant that killed Nelson Mandela's granddaughter in a car accident and got that person acquitted.

So this is a very good attorney, but this was not a game-changer for Oscar Pistorius today in my view.

KEILAR: All right, Sunny, we'll continue to follow this with you. It is televised, as I'm sure our viewers know. Sunny Hostin, thank you.

Coming up, Anderson Cooper, he will continue our coverage of the crisis in Ukraine. He'll be live from Kiev. He will be talking to a former State Department spokesman about what Secretary of State John Kerry said to Ukrainian leaders and we'll ask a former U.S. army general what options are on the table.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)