Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Secretary John Kerry on Ukraine; Crisis in Ukraine
Aired March 05, 2014 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And good afternoon, everyone. I'm Anderson Cooper live from Kiev, in for CNN's Brooke Baldwin.
It is 3:00 on the East Coast of the United States. It's 10:00 p.m. here in Kiev. Any minute now, we are expected to hear from Secretary of State John Kerry. He said just a short time ago, a few moments ago that he would be making a statement very soon. He just finished his meeting with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov. We are going to bring that to you live when it happens.
Today, for the first time since Russian boots hit Ukrainian soil in Crimea, meantime, United Nations envoy Robert Serry has agreed to end his mission in Crimea and leave the region. It was a bizarre day, to say the least, for him. He was threatened by a group of armed men who wanted him to get into a vehicle. He refused to get into that vehicle. We will have more on that in the hour ahead, this as German Chancellor Angela Merkel talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin over the telephone, more to report on that about the situation in Ukraine, a man she said just this week is out of touch with reality.
Obviously, it will be fascinating to hear the details on that phone conversation.
Back in Washington, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel says he is beefing up a joint military training mission in Poland and also adding claims to a Baltic air patrol mission.
In Moscow, more news to tell you about. Lawmakers are going tit for tat and drawing up a measure that would essentially, essentially confiscate U.S. and European assets if the U.S. and Europe slap sanctions on Russia, and that of course is a big if. And diplomats from Ukraine, the U.S. and Britain have agreed in principle to deploy international observers to Ukraine.
The idea here is to ease Russia's concerns. Also, after President Putin indicated he was worried about the safety of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, an excuse for an invasion, no doubt about it, very few in Washington are actually buying that excuse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK HAGEL, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We don't accept anything that President Putin as fact about why they had to protect the so-called ethnic minority in Crimea and the other reasons that the Russians have laid out as to why they took the action they did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Kerry wants Russia and Ukraine to try to start direct talks. Whether that's going to happen is an open question. Kerry and Lavrov have a track record of success.
They helped seal a crucial last-minute deal on Syria's chemical weapons just a few months ago.
I want to bring in former U.S. diplomat Nicholas Burns, who is joining us from Boston.
Mr. Burns, you were the lead U.S. negotiator for Iran's nuclear program back when you worked for the United States State Department. Lift the veil for us. What happens inside these high-level diplomatic meetings, the kind of that have been taking place all day today in Paris? What can Kerry offer Lavrov to try to bring the Russians to the negotiating table?
NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: Well, I think, Anderson, this is very difficult, because President Putin has been holding most of the cards. He's the one who invaded Crimea and is now holding it.
I think Secretary Kerry will draw on two things. One is there has been nearly universal international condemnation of the Russian government and of President Putin. This is not a government that doesn't care about his image. Putin cares about his image a lot. Secretary Kerry can, I think, paint the Russians as quite isolated.
And, secondly, you are right to say, Anderson, that there is right now not unity between the E.U. and the U.S. on what to do in terms of sanctions, but the House Foreign Affairs Committee met in Washington this morning to draw up a sanctions bill. There will be sanctions from the U.S. so I think Secretary Kerry will point to that and say there is a way out for Russia and the way out would be to allow civilian observers to come in, neutral observers to reassure whoever is concerned that the ethnic Russian population of the Eastern Ukraine and Crimea is not being -- their rights are not being abridged.
That's not a strong hand, but Secretary Kerry is a very fine diplomat and I'm sure he is pressing that point.
COOPER: It's hard to get obviously in Vladimir Putin's head, but do you believe that the Russians actually believe that Russian-speaking people in Eastern Ukraine and in Crimea are under threat? Because there is no evidence on the ground. There have been no reports from our reporters, from any independent journalists on the ground in Crimea that actually said that has occurred. Do you think they actually believe that?
BURNS: I think you're -- Anderson, you are exactly right. There is no evidence whatsoever that since the day that Yanukovych fled, there has been a problem for the ethnic population in Crimea or in the big cities, Donetsk and Kharkiv of Eastern Ukraine. This is all fabricated by the Russian propaganda machine. And if you look at -- I know you have -- you look at Russian television, they are describing the Ukrainian government in Kiev in ways that are absolutely slanderous and untrue.
This is a fabrication by President Putin to excuse his military invasion of Crimea. But diplomats open exit doors for other countries and Secretary Kerry is trying and Angela Merkel trying to give Putin a way out, should he choose to take it. And that's an open question.
COOPER: It also seems like Secretary Kerry, in his statements here in Ukraine yesterday -- he was on the ground here at this very spot in fact in Independence Square and obviously talking to Ukrainian leaders -- he was very careful to try to kind of assure Russia of their historic relationship with the Ukraine, a relationship which he said is going to continue.
That seems crucial on the part of the U.S. to try to show to Russia that the U.S. is not interested in dominating relations with Ukraine, that Ukraine is always going to because of geography -- always going to have a strong relationship with Russia.
BURNS: You are right.
And Ukrainians and Russians have been together since Kievan Rus back in the 11th and 10th centuries. There is a longstanding, ancient relationship that no one can deny. You will remember that when President Obama spoke with President Putin in that 90-minute phone call on Saturday afternoon, in the White House statement after that, they mentioned that President Obama had reassured President Putin that the United States was sensitive to this fact.
But as President Obama was reported to have said in that conversation, you don't need to invade countries or use your military to reassure the ethnic Russians of their rights. That can be done by the United Nations or by the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe, OSCE, which is built for this kind of a thing. And the OSCE has a lot of experience doing this very well.
I think they are trying to show President Putin there is a way out. It's hard to believe he will take it, but at least it's an effort worth making.
COOPER: Nicholas Burns, I appreciate your perspective. Thanks very much.
BURNS: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: And again we are awaiting comments from Secretary Kerry, who has been meeting with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, throughout just recently. We anticipate those comments very shortly. We will of course bring them to you live.
Moscow of course is armed with a threat right now, telling other countries to essentially butt out and to stay out of the situation of its intervention in Ukraine or it will cost them if sanctions are imposed on Russia. That is some of the news today, lawmakers in Russia saying they are willing to seize assets of U.S. and European companies. Russia analyst Jill Dougherty is joining us in Kiev, former Moscow bureau chief for CNN. She's also with the Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. She is a fellow there.
What do you make of the diplomatic dance, the diplomatic efforts that have been under way today?
JILL DOUGHERTY, HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT: That part I think is pretty extreme, Anderson, because if they start saying that they will seize assets, things like that happened back right at the beginning of the end of the new Russia, at the end of the Soviet Union, but if they start doing that, that's really a red flag to any type of international company that would want to invest in Russia.
COOPER: Right. They are talking about seizing of U.S. companies and European companies doing business in Russia, major corporations.
DOUGHERTY: Yes, exactly, so what does that mean for investment in Russia? Doesn't that backfire?
COOPER: In terms of the diplomatic front, we talked about this a little bit last night on the program, trying to find some sort of off- ramp for Russia, what would that look that?
DOUGHERTY: The main part still seems to be the rights and the fears of the people in the east and people in Crimea, Russian speakers who want the protection of Russia, and they are very fearful that the government that is in place right now is extreme in their view and will at the very least impact their rights and maybe even do things that are worse.
COOPER: It also about the fears and concerns of Vladimir Putin for Russia itself.
DOUGHERTY: Absolutely.
I think you would have to say that his fears of losing Ukraine and losing control in a situation that has really changed very rapidly -- remember, just a few weeks ago, he thought it was kind of in the can that they would be able to work out some type of agreement, perhaps something with the E.U. ultimately, but basically they would come Russia's way.
It happened very quickly. And I think in analyzing what he has been doing, first, he didn't know how to react, you can see. Now they are -- some I think may be strategic, but a lot I think they are making up as they go along.
COOPER: Nick Burns was talking about Russia's -- the importance they put on their public face, on their perception around the world. In some ways, that's what the Olympics for Russia were all about. It was a huge multibillion-dollar public relations show. It seems like much of that has been nullified just by the actions of Vladimir Putin over the last week.
DOUGHERTY: I would agree with you. And also don't forget Vladimir Putin, when he's talking, he's talking to an international audience, but he's also talking to a domestic audience. Russia does not want to be insulted. Russians do not want to be insulted. And he has to project himself as a very strong leader.
He does not apologize and he does not explain. That's very much because of his domestic situation where he has to look tough.
COOPER: Jill Dougherty, appreciate you being with us. She will be us throughout the day and the evening on "360" later tonight.
Earlier today, I spent some time with the Ukrainian opposition leader and former professional boxer Vitali Klitschko, former heavyweight champ. I asked him what he wants to come from this crisis, how he hopes it resolves and how he think the rest of the world views the recent events in Ukraine and Crimea. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VITALI KLITSCHKO, OPPOSITION LEADER: We appreciate support, for moral support from all friends of Ukraine, and everybody in Ukraine, everybody in the world wants to see Ukraine as modern and a country with steady political and economic situation, and the main goal.
We, Ukrainians, want to see Ukraine as a country with Europeans, defenders of life, without corruption, with rule of law, and with human rights. It's the main point. And that's why the movement, what we have here in Ukraine is first of all -- here in Maidan is for European immigration and after that was the demonstration against the power, against the corruption, against life without law. And that's why everyone in Ukraine wants to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And that's the demonstrations that took place here and the protesters who still remain here, that's very much what they want and what they demonstrated for. We will have more of the interview tonight at "A.C. 360" at 8:00 East Coast time in the United States. That's 3:00 a.m. here in the Ukraine.
Coming up though on this program, some critics are saying the CIA was caught off-guard by Russia's recent actions. But were U.S. intelligence analysts really not ready for the moves? If that's true, why was that? That's next.
Also, later, my guest says the best way for the U.S. to deal with Russia's President Vladimir Putin is simply to ignore him. Is that possible? We will talk about that. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Hey. Welcome back. We are live in Kiev, Ukraine, with the latest on the Ukrainian crisis.
We are awaiting a statement from Secretary of State John Kerry, who is in Paris, where he's been meeting today with Russia's foreign minister. We anticipate that statement any moment now.
Want to bring in our foreign affairs correspondent, Elise Labott, who is traveling with Secretary Kerry.
Elise, give us a sense of what has gone on today about the meeting with Russia's foreign minister and others.
ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, it's been a real day of diplomacy in action.
There have been several meetings in various groupings. First, Secretary Kerry met with the Ukrainian and British foreign minister. They were talking about trying to get monitors on the ground, trying to get some talks going, and then the single sales objective between the U.S. and the British and the French and the Germans all trying to get Foreign Minister Lavrov of Russia to sit down with the Ukrainian foreign minister and try and get this diplomatic process going.
Secretary Kerry met several times with his foreign minister colleagues and with Foreign Minister Lavrov and then he had a private meeting with the Russian foreign minister, all trying to get the meeting going.
In the end, the foreign minister left Paris without having met with the Ukrainian foreign minister, but he did say they would continue talks in the coming days and try and de-escalate the crisis. Not closing the door entirely, but given that Russia does not recognize this new Ukrainian government, it's a little bit hard for the foreign minister to sit down.
You also have this British, this French and German plan to go back to this February 21 agreement. It has some of the things that Foreign Minister Lavrov and President Putin like in terms of having Russian interests taken into account. So, it just remains to be seen how the diplomacy will continue. But I think it will also be a long night, Anderson.
COOPER: So in the comments from Secretary Kerry, we are not expecting certainly any kind of breakthroughs being announced at least?
LABOTT: I don't think any breakthrough, but I think Secretary Kerry wants to work it over the next couple of days. He's been urging the foreign minister to sit down with the Ukrainians.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I'm sorry. Go ahead. Elise, I wasn't hearing you. Go ahead.
LABOTT: That's OK.
Secretary Kerry I think will continue to work it over the next couple of days and urge the foreign minister of Russia, sit down. We can address your concerns that you have in Ukraine and particularly the Crimean Peninsula. I don't think he will announce any breakthroughs, but I think he wants to continue to try and get this meeting together and work with the British and the French and the German, all to try to get the international monitors on the ground.
They keep acknowledging Russia does have concerns in Ukraine, interests in Ukraine and particularly the Crimean Peninsula. So, they're trying to make the case that this is how we can address those concerns, pull your troops back and pull back from the brink and let's get a dialogue going -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Elise, we will be checking in with you as soon as we hear from Secretary Kerry.
There are obviously always lessons to be learned from the crisis like the one taking place in Ukraine.
My next guest coming up after our short break said the best way to deal with Vladimir Putin is basically to ignore him. The question is, is that possible? We will talk to him ahead. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I really don't want, none of us want the importance of what we came here to talk about with respect to Lebanon be lost in all of the obvious discussions that have taken place with respect to the question of Ukraine. But the countries that came to Paris today for this very important and timely meeting are all of us bound together by very strong commitment to Lebanon.
As Syria's conflict spills over Lebanon's borders, and as the refugee crisis grows, we are deeply concerned for the security and the sovereignty of the people of Lebanon and for their simple ability to be able to chart their own futures and fulfill the same basic aspirations that they share with everybody else on this planet.
The president, President Suleiman, pulled out and showed me a very dramatic charting that goes for the last few years, four different charts that show you the extraordinary change in Lebanon with the numbers of refugees as every year upwards. The entire country has become a splotch of red. Instead of red dots, the entire border is really red today because there are almost a million refugees in Lebanon.
This has an extraordinary impact on the internal dynamics of a country, people who are looking for work, people who work for less, it drives wages down, it changes the nature of that nation.
So the United States is very proud to have provided Lebanon just in the last year or so with respect to its development process $340 million the last few years in humanitarian aid, and we will continue to support the Lebanese armed forces and other security institutions.
Of course, you can't talk about the values of sovereignty, security, and determination and economic opportunity without coming quickly back to the events of the last days in Ukraine. Ukrainians told me yesterday in Kiev how desperately they want a government that has the consent of the people and an economy that gives them a chance to be able to live just like everybody else.
I told the story of a person who had been to Australia, who came back and said, we just want to be able to live the way other people live, the way we have seen them live. Well, today, our fellow foreign ministers and I met separately with our Ukrainian counterpart, Foreign Minister Deshchytsia, and our Russian counterpart, Foreign Minister Lavrov.
And we met as a group also, a group of concerned countries. We agreed to continue intense discussions in the coming days with Russia, with Ukrainians in order to see how we can help normalize the situation, stabilize it, and overcome the crisis.
And those intentions are intentions that are shared exactly as I have described them between Russia, the United States, the European countries, and Ukrainians who were here.
All parties agreed today that it is important to try to resolve these issues through dialogue. The United States with our partners is focusing intensely on a remedy. And I don't I don't believe, as any of us believe, President Obama doesn't believe it, I don't believe, the other countries we're working with, I know they don't believe that any of us are served by greater or further confrontation.
And, also, we met today to discuss these issues because we cannot and will not allow the integrity of the sovereignty of the country of Ukraine to be violated and for those violations to go unanswered.
Russia's violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity has actually united the world in support of the Ukrainian people. And this morning, Secretary Hagel announced that the Defense Department is taking concrete steps to reassure our NATO allies, steps like expanding our aviation detachment in Poland and our contributions to NATO's Baltic air policing mission.
This is on top of other steps that the United States has already taken, steps like suspending our bilateral discussions with Russia on trade and investment, suspending U.S./Russian military engagement, and suspending preparations for the G8 summit in Sochi.
As I said yesterday in Kiev, and as President Obama has said as well, and as I said to Foreign Minister Lavrov today, Russia made a choice. And we have clearly stated that we believe it is the wrong choice, that is, the choice to move troops into Crimea.
Russia can now choose to de-escalate this situation. And we are committed to working with Russia, together with our friends and allies, in an effort to provide a way for this entire situation to find a road to de-escalation.
The United States is ready to work with all parties to make that happen, and to make it happen as soon as possible. We renew our call for Russia to speak directly with the government of Ukraine, to send troops back to their bases, and to welcome international observers and human rights monitors.
And we have seen today with what happened with special envoy Serry just how important it is to ensure the safety of those monitors and of those observers. Ukraine's territorial integrity must be restored and must be respected.
From Lebanon to Ukraine, the United States stands ready to help our friends in a time of need. And,today, those needs obviously are great in different places, different kinds of needs in different places. We especially thank our friends here in France for their partnership as we work to address these challenges and many others. For instance, Iran's nuclear program, we're working together.
Violence in the Central African Republic, we're working together. The pursuit of reconciliation in Mali, we are working together. All of these efforts require international cooperation. So coming together as a community of nations, as we did today, is the best way to resolve these kinds of problems that concern us.
And, today, I believe we initiated a process that over the next couple of days, we hope can bring us to that de-escalation and to a path for the protection of the integrity of the country and for the building of stronger relationships between other nations.
On that note, I would be delighted to take any questions.
QUESTION: Thank you. Mr. Secretary, you just renewed the U.S. call to Russia to speak directly to the new Ukrainian government.
You were hoping that that would happen today, right here, between Lavrov and the Ukrainian foreign minister who accompanied you here apparently for that purpose. Why did that effort fail, and what did -- assurance did you get, if any, from the Russians that they might be willing to have that kind of conversation in the future?
KERRY: Well, let me make it absolutely crystal clear. I had no expectation, zero expectation that today that kind of a meeting would take place. I did not expect it, and we did not ask the foreign minister to come here for that purpose.
So the premise of the question is -- is really just not factual, in terms of what we were expecting. We brought him here because we knew that it was inappropriate for us to have discussions with Minister Lavrov, whom I knew I had a meeting with, without being able to consult with our Ukrainian friends.
And it would have been inappropriate for us to come here to Paris and for a group of nations to join together and make some kind of an agreement without the appropriate consultation and engagement and involvement and sign-off from the people who are concerned.
This is a Ukrainian decision. And we respect that. So we met, all of us, as a group of foreign ministers, with the foreign minister from Ukraine. We went through the things that we had discussed today. We solicited opinion. I will be in touch later tonight with the foreign minister, as well as with the prime minister of Ukraine. They're traveling to Brussels for meetings tomorrow with the E.U. And we will continue that discussion. I will also continue the discussion with Foreign Minister Lavrov in Rome tomorrow.
Foreign Minister Lavrov will then return to have discussions with President Putin, which he also did today.
