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Opinion: East-West Divide In Ukraine Based On Generation More So Than Location; Uncertainty Grows In Ukraine; Merkel Find A Solution To Ukraine Crisis?; "Chicagoland"

Aired March 06, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Just past the bottom of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin, with our continuing coverage, the breaking news of the crisis in Ukraine. Just a short time ago, President Obama stepped forward at the White House and the briefing room issued a harsh new warning that any new referendum in Crimea to decide whether to rejoin Russia would violate international law.

The president also urged Congress to hurry up and support American aid to Ukraine. Meantime across the Atlantic, you have Secretary of State John Kerry in Rome speaking out moments after the president did on the diplomatic impasse with his Russian counterpart.

Kerry said he and Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, agreed to keep talking and to try to find a solution to end this tense military standoff between your pro-Russian forces and Ukrainian troops in the tiny peninsula of Crimea.

All of this talk is aimed at an audience of one. Here he is in the black, Russian's President Vladimir Putin, the only man who can immediately diffuse the tinder box in Crimea. The big question, is Putin listening? Does he want to listen?

Let's now focus on the people at the center of this crisis, the Ukrainians. Take a look at the map with me because it breaks down the vote in Ukraine's 2010 presidential election between the pro-Russian candidate, ousted leader, Viktor Yanukovych and the pro-west candidate, Yulia Tymoshenko.

So you see the colors, you see the east-west split here so those in the east, all the bright red you see, that side aligning with Russia and then in the west, the shades of blue here more aligning with Europe in the west.

My next guest says this east-west divide goes way beyond this geography. She is Julia Hoffe, senior editor of the "New Republic." Julia, welcome. Nice to have you on.

JULIE HOFFE, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Fascinating piece on the "New Republic" because you spent recent days in this city in Eastern Ukraine. You visit this university. You are talking to those who are pro-Russian integration versus maybe some of the younger students who are not.

Let me just quote you because this is the line that really jumped out here at me. You said, "And this is the crux of it all. What we are seeing is the reverberation of what happened more than 20 years ago. This is still the long post-Soviet transition and this is what it's like to wander in the desert waiting for the old generation to die off."

You, Julia, say the split is not territorial. It's not language, it's generational.

HOFFE: That's right. You can find people that speak Russian and all across the Ukraine that speak Ukrainian, that divide you showed, I mean, you can show a similar map of the United States. You know, one side of the country votes for Mitt Romney and another side votes for Barack Obama. Does that mean the country should split or one side of the country is aligned with some other power?

I think when people were voting for Viktor Yanukovych, they were not voting for Russia. When people were voting for Julia Tymoshenko, they weren't voting for Europe. As for the split, it's -- you know, people who are especially in the eastern and south eastern part of the country, the ones who identify as Russian, what they really mean is that they are Soviet. They are people who were born when Ukraine wasn't a country.

BALDWIN: Just since 1991, right, 23 years.

HOFFE: That's right. The students that I spoke to, they were born after 1991. They were already born into an independent country. Even though they are ethnically Russian and they speak Russian as a first language, they go to school in Russian. They see themselves as Ukrainian simply because they were born there.

Whereas their professor and people of their parents' and grandparents' generation, see themselves as Russian and what they mean is Soviet because the Soviet Union was to a large extent a Russian entity and this is how it was cobbled together by design, by Joseph Stalin who was then the people's commissary of nationalities.

He wanted all control to be with Moscow and not with the individual republics like Belarus or Ukraine or Uzbekistan. This was mostly a Russian entity. So when they say Russian, they really mean Soviet. Until these people either die off or just change their point of view, we are going to have to wait for the new generation to come of age.

BALDWIN: Which who knows how long that could take in the crisis -- that's happening right now, right?

HOFFE: The reason it's happening is because Russia is dealing with the same post-Soviet legacy. This is all --

BALDWIN: Nostalgia.

HOFFE: It's not nostalgia. They are trying to figure out what it means that one country is split apart into lots of different countries. What do you do with that? Who gets what land? I mean, this is a natural sorting out process that it's going to take a long time when historians look back at this time. They are going to just see it as yet another flash point of the long post-Soviet transition.

BALDWIN: But is it this a nation, Ukraine, specifically, final question, that is really always been dependent on Russia, on the west, on the U.S. How long will it really take to be fully independent, do we know?

HOFFE: I don't think that that's the criteria for independence. I don't think the U.S., for example, is fully independent of anybody. It depends heavily on China, for example, monetarily whenever things happen in the Middle East or in Ukraine, for example. Why are we pulled into it? Because we are not fully independent.

Nobody is fully independent of anybody in the way the world is now. So, you know, saying that it's dependent on Russia doesn't really mean anything. It's a very close training partner. They share similar ethnic groups, but that doesn't mean they need to be one country or it doesn't mean that one can't be independent of the other. Everybody is, you know, co-dependent to some extent.

BALDWIN: It's incredible just all different perspectives and reads on this whole thing that different people have. Julia Hoffe, thank you so much with the "New Republic." I appreciate you coming on.

We are going to say with the crisis in Ukraine. We'll take you in country next. Michael Holmes is there. He has been talking to people in the capital city of Kiev. Obviously they are watching the developments very, very closely. What do they think of the crisis? We will talk about that next.

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BALDWIN: From violent and barricades to a much more sombre memorial, the capital city of Ukraine, Kiev really has been this centerpiece of the revolution for this new government. Protesters are still camping out in Independence Square and Michael Holmes is there live in the square.

And Michael Holmes, you've been talking to all kinds of people. They are watching the developments in Crimea very closely. What are they telling you?

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are. This is a sombre mood. They are still here. You talk to them about what's going on in Crimea and you get a sense of a patriotism with the people here. Not just a patriotism for their part of Ukraine, but for all of it. Crimea included. It is a country divided along, you know, some ethnic line, but the people here have a sense of unity with each other.

You know, it's interesting, there were people literally going up and volunteering to join the army. People who have had no experience or anything like that. They were lines to drawn up because they wanted to defend their country. They told me that they don't understand why Vladimir Putin is doing what he is doing in Crimea, and they were worried about where it would lead to.

Will it spread into other eastern parts of the country with Russian ethnic majorities as well and they get a sense that -- you get a sense that they are worried about where their country is going to end up at the end of this. This referendum that you've been reporting on as well that asked a very stark question, stay with Ukraine or go to Russia has them very worried.

They want their country to stay together, to be one, and what they as seeing doesn't, you know, give them much hope at the moment. They very much relied on the west, the United States to help them out -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Michael Holmes with the pulse of the people there in Kiev. Michael, thank you. Ahead much more on the crisis in Ukraine. There is one person who could be key in helping find a solution. Did you know that German Chancellor Angela Merkel speaks Russian, has a close relationship with Vladimir Putin? We will tell you more about why she could really be a key player resolving this.

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BALDWIN: As Russian President Vladimir Putin continues to defy Europe, defy the United States, there is one country he may not be able to afford to anger much more, Germany. German Chancellor Angela Merkel might emerge as the crucial figure in the crisis as she may be one of if not the only European leader that truly matters to him.

She has spoken with Putin multiple times since the crisis began, most recently last night. She's also spoken multiple times to President Obama and she could be, could be the crisis solution here. Brian Todd explains how.

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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's no secret President Obama's strained relationship with Vladimir Putin isn't helping in this crisis. But who can solve it? It may be the stoic daughter of a pastor, Germany's chancellor, Angela Merkel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vladimir Putin knows from experience for many years right now that the last enemy that he wants right now in Europe is Germany.

TODD: Germany has huge economic leverage over Putin. It buys more than a third of its natural gas from Russia, exports technology and cars to Russia. But analysts say what makes Merkel so crucial in this crisis is that she has something that Obama doesn't, a personal connection with Russia's president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have a lot of connectivity because Putin speaks very fluent German and Angela Merkel herself speaks Russian.

TODD: She grew up in East Germany under the communist system dominated by the Soviets. Putin was a KGB officer who served in East Germany. Analysts say they understand each other's political DNA. A German official told us Merkel and Putin are not friends. After a recent phone call on Ukraine, she reportedly said Putin is, quote, "in another world."

But she has a savvy and toughness he respects. Several years ago, Putin brought a large dog to a meeting with Merkel apparently wanting to test her knowing she has a fear of dogs. She was terrified says one analyst, but didn't flinch. Kept negotiating with Putin for more than an hour.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She didn't blink because she understands the Russian mind set and knows the Russians and Vladimir Putin wanted to play Russian chess with her. The person who blinks that first has lost.

TODD: Merkel's relationship with President Obama recently became strained with reports the NSA tapped her cell phone. But analysts say it's her credibility with both the White House and the Kremlin that is making the difference.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she's probably more willing to take into account to listen to what Russian concerns are and to try and dissuade the Russians from thinking that everyone else is ganging up against them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Brian Todd, you are in Washington for us. It's important to point out too though Angela Merkel, she has a big stake in this herself, right?

TODD: She has a huge stake in it, Brooke. You know, Germany could be one of the biggest losers of this cold war-style standoff gets any worse. It's because of those economic ties. Germany is Russia's biggest trading partner. It exports cars and technology to Germany. They have a huge stake in this.

This is why Angela Merkel did not want to push too hard for sanctions and she doesn't want to kick Vladimir Putin out of the G8. She has a lot riding on this.

BALDWIN: OK, Brian Todd, thank you very much. We are going to stay on the crisis in Ukraine. One question we are asking, does Russian President Vladimir Putin, does he have a strategy or is he to quote one of my next guests winging it? Improvising, calling the shots as he goes. Would that make him more dangerous? Next, we will take a closer look at Putin's military moves and what we could learn about his final plan.

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BALDWIN: We are near hours away from the premier of CNN's newest original series, "Chicago Land" and so the film highlights the men and women and leaders and others who are really on the frontlines and the deadly streets of Chicago. They are working around the clock. They are confronting gang violence and shootings to save schools and to save students. Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel is one of those game changers and so is the school principal who has been fighting for her students ever since joining the high school five years ago. She has overhauled how they handle gang violence. I want to show you a clip and a lock at what she faces on her job, day to day as principal.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thunder High School Principal Liz Dozier is on a mission, to give her kids a shot at a better future.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a larger ongoing conflict within the community like the school. We sit like in the middle of this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not going to happen! Not today. Keep it moving. I'm not going to say it again. Get out of the street. He is headed southbound. Principal down. I broke my shoe. This is 112th and I broke my shoe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An important part of the principal's job is to keep tabs on gang conflicts and make sure students are safe at school. By the time a kid gets to high school, his gang affiliation can become his identity and even a lunch room fight can turn into a gang war.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who was the other girl? I need you to slow down and get that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Principal Dozier and her team have transformed the culture.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lady. It's too loud. Let's figure out what the issue is. If you don't get to the root. It will bubble up and explode.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Here she is, Liz Dozier joins me from New York. Mark Konkol in Chicago, he's the narrator, writer and producer for the series. So welcome to both of you. Liz, you are one tough cookie. Watching that segment with you there, can I ask, it seems to me what I know about the series, this job you have is not even a career. It's this life choice. So simply why did you want to take it?

LIZ DOZIER, PRINCIPAL, FENGER HIGH SCHOOL: First and foremost, I felt that our students are absolutely amazing and just giving them options and opportunities leads to amazing results for their life. That's huge for me.

BALDWIN: So Mark, you take this and take her story and that of so many other and you make this series. How did you come up with this in the first place? Why do this? Why Chicago?

MARK KONKOL, NARRATOR, WRITER AND PRODUCER, "CHICAGOLAND": Chicago is a city that has all kinds of problems that other American cities have. We looked at characters and chicago. Real people on the frontlines and people like Liz whose dynamic in the show fired them and the Cook County trauma unit, the teacher's union, field rep, and a lot of people besides the people in power, who are working to combat the issues that Chicago faces, which are issues that America faces.

I think it's a way to tell stories through characters that really will captivate the audience and put a highlight on what Chicagoans are going through, and what is the essence of what the struggles for really the soul of Chicago is today?

It happened over the summer when Rahm Emmanuel closed most schools in American history. Everyone was talking about violence in Chicago. That's the crisis that threatens the finances of our city.

BALDWIN: Liz, I remember the story and it was I think 16 days into your tenure, that honor student was beaten to death and made national news. I can't imagine the tone that is set on your career there in the last several years when people sit down to watch this series. What do you want them to take away?

DOZIER: I want them to take away the fact that there is a civic responsibility that we all have in terms of really making sure that our children are well. By well I mean they have again opportunities for their lives and we are all responsible for that.

You know, whether you are a Chicagoan, like, you know, Billy Deck, Samuel Jackson or (Amy) Jordan who, you know, have been with us this last five years and you know, done fundraising and supported kids in other ways or whether you are in Omaha or Iowa and you give back to your school like kids matter and they are essentially the future of our country. And, so, as the adults, we're all responsible for that.

BALDWIN: Liz Dozier, we thank you for your work.

DOZIER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Mark Konkol, thank you both very, very much. It is a gripping, emotional, powerful new series called "Chicagoland," premiers tonight 10:00 Eastern, 9:00 Central right here on CNN.

Both of you, thank you.