Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

U.S. Warship Crosses into Black Sea; Unraveling the Fight for Ukraine; Military Sex Assault Victim Speaks Out; Pentagon Studying Putin's Body Language

Aired March 07, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to NEWSROOM. I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington.

And this morning, the U.S. military is on the move. Take a look at some images just in to the CNN NEWSROOM. Last hour, a U.S. warship, the guided missile destroyer, "USS Truxtun" crossed into the Black Sea. It will take part in previously planned military exercises with Romania and Bulgaria as tensions neighboring Ukraine continues to simmer.

CNN's senior international correspondent, Ivan Watson is in the Bosphorus Strait part of that waterway that divides Europe and Asia. Ivan good morning to you and good afternoon to you I probably should say. But is this adding to tensions in the area even though this was already scheduled?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. The U.S. Navy said this was a previously scheduled visit by this American destroyer. And that's the same thing that the Russian Navy said when two Russian warships sailed up this channel into the Black Sea on Tuesday when the Ukrainian Navy ship did the same.

But we know very well that the situation in Ukraine and Crimea is anything but normal. That there is a Russian military occupation of the Crimean Peninsula, which sticks out into the Black Sea. So any movement made by any military right now is taken as symbolic.

It does have added meaning, especially if you add to the fact that the U.S. Secretary of Defense, Chuck Hagel, that he announced the U.S. would be increasing joint air patrols over the Baltic Peninsula in a show of support clearly for Eastern European countries, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland all former Soviet satellites that are clearly very nervous right now about the military advances that Russia has made into Ukraine.

So while the U.S. Navy did have this destroyer previously scheduled to come here to the Black Sea. It also was not making a secret of the arrival of this vessel at a time when there is a lot of confusion and a lot of delicate negotiating going on between Moscow and Washington over the future of the Ukraine -- Brianna.

KEILAR: It certainly is a delicate time Ivan Watson there near the Bosphorus Strait. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Now for many Americans unraveling the crisis in Ukraine understanding its many underlying factors can be daunting. So when good reporting breaks down some of the complexities, well it is worth sharing and such is the case with the "New Republic" and their explanation that the debate inside eastern Ukraine is largely generational. It's divided by those who grew up in the Soviet Republic and those who were born after the country's independence in 1991.

Here is a quote from one article. Said, "What we are seeing today is the reverberation of what happened more than 20 years ago. This is still the long post-Soviet transition. And this is what it's like to wonder in the desert waiting for the old generation to die off."

Julia Ioffe is a senior editor at the "New Republic." She wrote that article. Julia this was great at really breaking it down and if you can sort of just explain.

You know a lot of this has been simplified between, you've got eastern Ukraine and you have Western Ukraine. And Eastern Ukraine is pro- Russia and Western Ukraine wants to remain independent. But you interviewed a professor as well as his younger students. And it really is generational. Can you explain that?

JULIA IOFFE, SENIOR EDITOR, NEW REPUBLIC: So, you're right. There is generally this conventional split that the west of the country speaks Ukrainian and wants to be part of Europe and the east speaks Russian and wants to be part of the Russia. And that's generally not true. The whole country speaks Ukrainian. The whole country speaks Russian. Traditionally it has been a divide between the cities and the countryside. The countryside speaks Ukrainian.

The cities speak Russian. What I found in Yenakiieve, Viktor Yanukovych's hometown in southeastern -- excuse me southeastern -

KEILAR: And just to be -- and Yanukovych is the ousted leader of Ukraine seen as pro-Russian. So this is his hometown.

IOFFE: That's right. What I found there actually, what this professor found there was that the younger a person was, the more likely she was to see herself as a Ukrainian, regardless of ethnicity, regardless of language preference.

For example his students were all about 20, born after 1991 when there was an independent Ukraine. Despite the fact that they were ethnically Russian, despite the fact that they spoke Russian at home and at school, saw themselves as Ukrainian. The older generation, because they were born into a world in which an independent Ukraine did not exist and was ruled from Moscow, from Soviet Moscow, tend to see themselves as Russian. Which generally has entered for that generation, it is kind of interchangeable with that word, Soviet. Because the Soviet Union was fundamentally a Russian entity despite all of the nationalities that that Soviet umbrella encompassed.

KEILAR: So let me ask you this. This was a fact -- I loved this conversation that you were having with the professor and his young students. At one point, you said the professor kind of barreled over one of the young women as she talked.

You say these younger people, these younger Ukrainians in what would be considered sort of a pro-Russian area, they have family in Russia they actually prefer to speak Russian.

But I wonder if they do have this real feeling of Ukraine being independent. But let's say even if Crimea departs Ukraine becomes essentially part of Russia is there going to be from here on out as these younger Ukrainians have the sense of independence, will there constantly be this tension going forward where they say, we don't want to be a part of Russia.

IOFFE: There probably will be a tension. But there will probably also be a rallying around the Ukrainian flag. And you're seeing that I think in the last few days in Kiev and all of the country where this kind of -- it's kind of very convenient for the new government in Kiev. But you know a lot of uncertainty can follow a revolution. Things can break down into bickering and backbiting between different factions and ethnicities and interest groups.

But now that -- now that there is, you know, a large neighboring country that's generally been a threat to Ukraine, threatening to divide -- you know draw and quarter the country.

KEILAR: Yes.

IOFFE: People -- people are starting to take pride in their Ukrainianness and again, rallying around the flag. What's interesting again what I wanted to mention was that the professor is one of those people who doesn't even believe Ukraine is a real country. Vladimir Putin, in 2008, when he met with then President George W. Bush at a summit in Romania said, "You know, George, it's not a real country. You realize that, right?"

So that -- and there is a whole generation of people who feel that way, that these borders that broke up what was then the Soviet Union are fictitious.

KEILAR: Yes and Julia fascinating sort of slice there in Donetsk that really just illustrates just how complex this is. Appreciate the explainer -- Julia Ioffe with the "New Republic." We're checking out and thanks for joining us.

IOFFE: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: Now still to come, the Senate blocking a bill that would have overhauled the way the military prosecutes sex crimes as new allegations of sex assault are revealed involving a top Army officer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Well this morning, the Army is investigating shocking new allegations of sexual misconduct against the man who served as a top prosecutor of sex assaults. The Army has not identified him but an Obama administration official tells CNN his name is Lieutenant Colonel Joseph Morse. News of the probe comes as the Senate -- as the Senate, I should say, blocked the bill that would have overhauled how the military prosecute sex crimes.

And my next guest was one of the first women to cross into Iraq with the combat unit following the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003. But what she thought would be an adventure turned into a nightmare after she says she was sexually assaulted by a sergeant, her sergeant.

Her name is Nichole Bowen. And she is joining me now from Seattle.

Nichole good morning to you and thanks so much for coming on and talking about a really sensitive but important subject.

NICHOLE BOWEN, MILITARY SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIM: Good morning. Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: So Nichole, you've described what you say is a military culture where harassment is tolerated. It's even expected. Why do you think then that this bill failed? It needed 60 votes in the Senate. It was quite shy of it. There were only 55 votes for it.

BOWEN: Right it's -- I am really surprised that it didn't go through considering all of the conflicts going on with the sex scandals and it's not just recent. Like these sex scandals have been going on for decades. And they are horrific. And no significant change has been done yet. You know it's been 23 years since Tailhook and the Tailhook scandal. And things just keep coming out again and again. And it's really embarrassing for the military.

KEILAR: And I want to talk about your personal experience. I know you've talked about it a bit. But I also know it must be difficult. You said that you were working a night shift. And that your sergeant, you said that you sort of constantly felt almost that rape was a possibility and then one night it did come -- really your fear came true. And your sergeant forced sex on you. And what's -- what's particularly alarming to me about your story is that when you brought it to friends, what did they say?

BOWEN: I had friends that were upset by it. And then I did also bring it to the attention of my chain of command, not in a formal way. It was suggested that I not file a complaint and file a report. And I didn't. I didn't think anything would be done.

I also think that if I had someone outside of my chain of command to report it to, that I would have reported it. If I had known I would have had an advocate. I would have been safe and there wouldn't have been any kind of retaliation. But that system is still not in place. That's what the bill originally addressed -- taking the control out of the commander. That actually would be the soldier or the service member supervisor, who, right now, pretty much controls what happens to the victim and to the perpetrator.

KEILAR: Is that what you think needs to happen, Nichole, exactly what this bill was attempting to do?

BOWEN: Yes, most certainly. I know it would have made a difference for me. And yes, it wasn't a safe place for me to report anything. And I carry around guilt about that too. I think about, you know what's he doing now? Who else has he impacted?

And yes, it's just -- it is a system that hasn't changed for like 250 years. And it doesn't make sense to not change things that aren't working. We change our laws all of the time.

KEILAR: Sure and it's such -- it is so -- I think your story is so -- it is difficult to listen to. And you realize what a terrible position that you have been in. You felt that you couldn't report, and especially as you are watching, for instance, this bill fail.

As you look back with your experience and certainly, you know, there were so many question marks about how you were to even handle it. I know you ran into a lot of red tape

As you are talking and you're an advocate for other women and even men in this position, what is your advice to them? What you learned through what you unfortunately have had to deal with?

BOWEN: That's tough. Well, my advice is that, you know, you can heal. And geez, I wouldn't recommend -- even the way the system is now -- I wouldn't recommend reporting it, because I think that the retaliation would be so much worse than staying quiet or, you know, just having the retaliation --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: You actually -- you think in this case that it ultimately -- do you regret reporting it?

BOWEN: Well, I didn't actually file -- report it. I regret -- I regret not reporting it definitely. I also think that I did the best that I could -- yes, but I think about him. I think about other people that he could be doing the same thing to and more people that aren't reporting it.

KEILAR: Yes. And it's obvious something needs to change. I mean you can hear it just in your story. You really don't even feel now that there is an avenue.

BOWEN: Oh yes. Yes. It is really sickening that it hasn't and that all of these scandals that keep showing up over and over again that are really embarrassing for the military and the bill hasn't passed. Yes.

KEILAR: Well, Nichole Bowen, I know this is a tough subject to talk about. We really appreciate you coming on CNN and discussing it. It is very important. Thank you for being on with us.

BOWEN: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: NEWSROOM back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The United States is using any tactic it can trying to gain the upper hand on Russian President Vladimir Putin and that includes reportedly using a team of researchers to study Putin's body language in the hopes of figuring out what his next move might be.

To discuss this, we are joined by Ray Locker, who broke the story for "USA Today". Ray -- thanks for being with us.

RAY LOCKER, "USA TODAY": Thanks for having me, Brianna.

KEILAR: Ray, do you know if anything -- or is there anything coming out of this? I mean has this team been able to look at his body language and actually kind of take something away from it.

LOCKER: Well, you have seen anecdotal things from the researchers about how Putin walks and what that tells them about kind of his attitudes, his struggles from adversity. He has kind of a labored walking pattern. They have been tracking that for a while.

The Pentagon doesn't want to talk about what the specific insights they have gleaned and how they use this information. That's one of the challenges about reporting the story.

KEILAR: But what, for instance, all would they be looking at besides his walk and what would it show them?

LOCKER: Well, for example with Saddam Hussein, the former Iraqi dictator, people measured whether he scratched his left eyelid with his left hand when he was saying certain things. You know, you match people's movements with what they are saying.

You get an idea that some analysts say is just like a person's DNA. It is unique to them. When they say certain things, you can tell, hey he is lying or he's telling the truth.

KEILAR: So that's what they are looking for in a way -- it's kind of the tells -- right? They're are studying a person overall, trying to see if there is a pattern that maybe gives something away, shows they're being dishonest, maybe not quite honest, something might be true. Is it really -- I mean is it as simple as that.

LOCKER: Absolutely.

KEILAR: They can really do this.

LOCKER: In many ways, the adherence of this which is called movement pattern analysis believe that everybody has a specific way of moving, their gestures, how it combines with how they speak. And yes, you can tell certain things about how they make decisions, whether they are telling the truth or not.

KEILAR: So what do -- Ray, what do body language experts say when -- it is pretty fascinating too I think to watch the kind of interaction between President Obama as we are right now and Vladmir Putin as we so often do. You have heard the President say before about Putin that he kind of is this like kid slouching in the back of the classroom like he is disinterested. Is that something that experts are reading, just his kind of posture around President Obama?

LOCKER: Right. That's part of it. More specifically, it is him by himself, not necessarily interacting with other people, or if he is doing an interview. That's the more specific things of movement pattern analysis as opposed to, say, the body language where if I'm talking to you and if I have my arms crossed like this or I'm scratching my head. It is more of a complex pattern.

KEILAR: OK. But so let's say the other day you had Vladimir Putin giving a press conference. We hadn't seen him for a while. And he is talking about a number of things relating to Ukraine. There would have been -- even though the Defense Department doesn't want to talk about it, there were a team of people watching him, right.

LOCKER: I would imagine they would have that video banked and they would be analyzing his movements with that and with what he was saying.

KEILAR: I imagine they would too -- to be a fly on the wall. Ray Locker, really appreciate it. Thanks so much for being with us.

LOCKER: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: And thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington.

"@THIS HOUR" with John Berman and Michaela Pereira starts after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: International observers blocked, a U.S. warship on the way and discussions showing no sign of progress. Is the crisis in Ukraine at a breaking point?

The young woman Oscar Pistorius dumped for Reeva Steenkamp on the stand at his murder trial. She talks about his guns, his anger, and his fear of intruders.