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Officials: Two Passengers Had Stolen Passports; Kerry Issues New Warning to Lavrov; $1.2 Million Bond For Mom Who Drove Kids Into Ocean; America's Death Penalty Under Scrutiny; "NY Times" Columnist Weighs in on Critics of Obama in Crimea Crisis; CPAC Straw Poll Results Have Big Influence on Voters; Rand Paul Wins CPAC Straw Poll

Aired March 08, 2014 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Sciutto in today for Don Lemon. This afternoon, we're focusing on the Far East where a commercial airliner is still missing more than 24 hours after losing all contact with the ground. A search is under way for the Boeing 777 with 239 passengers and crew on board, operated by Malaysia Airlines. It took off yesterday from Kuala Lumpur headed to Beijing but it didn't make it. Searchers are concentrating on the spot where you see that airplane symbol there below in the water off Southern Vietnam. No wreckage has turned up yet, but one clue is giving researchers a bad feeling about this flight. Several miles of oil slicks have been spotted on the gulf of Thailand on the general flight path that that passenger jet was on before it disappeared.

And something unusual has officials concerned about this incident now. Two people whose names were on the passenger manifest were not on the plane at all. They say their passports were stolen months or years ago. That means two people were on the plane with passports not issued to them. And while we wait for word from the airline, we want to talk about this stolen passport concern and more detail. And for that we have Tom Fuentes, he's with me, he's our law enforcement analyst and a former assistant director at the FBI, a lot of experience with this kind of thing.

Also Mary Sciavo, the former inspector general at the U.S. Department of Transportation, also very good, very specific experience on these kinds of incidents. Tom, I want to talk to both of you about this to get a sense of how important you think this detail is. And I just want to read you a quote that I got this morning from the U.S. Intel official said regarding this passport detail. The Intel official said to me, "We're aware of the reporting on the two lost, stolen passports. No nexus to terrorism yet, although but that's by no means definitive. We're still tracking." So, that's the detail that they're looking into. Tom, with your experience, two passengers on that plane with stolen passports. Does that give you any concerned sense about what might have brought this plane down?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely, Jim. You wonder, you know, who was using it, what were their motives? Were they using it so that they could check luggage in that matched the passport, matched the ticketing, and maybe the luggage contained explosives and some other bad materials? So it's a great concern when people use false documents to board international aircraft. In this case, both passports were reported stolen. Only one of the two, the Italian passport, was actually in Interpol's database in France. Now, Interpol houses a database with 39 million stolen and lost documents in a file. And many countries make an inquiry of that file before passengers depart their country or individuals come in through their passport control to their country.

Currently, Interpol has a project to have two airlines, it's a pilot project with Carter Air and Arabian Air to allow airlines to directly make inquiry to that database before they even issue the tickets or boarding passes. But those are the only two right now. And what Interpol knows for certain is that the passengers that boarded that Malaysian flight, which was also a co-chair with China Southern Airlines, those passengers with that database was not checked with before the tickets were issued. So, that they know, the Italian passport that was in their database was not checked.

SCIUTTO: Mary Sciavo, I want to go to you as well as inspector general of the Department of Transportation, certainly great experience on this. And just a reminder to our viewers, it is early, it's only been 24 hours, no one knows what brought this plane down, but this is a detail that investigators are at least going to look at. So Mary Sciavo, you look at that we're 13 years past 9/11. Would it surprise you that with all the databases, all the communication between intelligence agencies, airlines, et cetera, warning lists and so on, would it surprise you that two people could get on a plane with passports, at least one of them reported stolen?

MARY SCIAVO, FORMER U.S. TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT INSPECTOR GENERAL: Yes, it does. Because since 9/11 and all the work that we and others have done after September 11, 2001 to try to identify who is on the plane, we learned a lot of lessons. One, you know, previous bombers and terrorists had traveled on foreign or fake passports, including, you know, very significant bombers connected with the 9/11 terrorism. And also it concerns me because where the plane was headed. I mean, I've gotten Chinese visas to go to China before and they're very exacting. It takes time. I mean, it's not a bad process, but you don't just up and decide to fly into Beijing.

And so the fact that this slipped through the cracks, that they didn't check against lists. And many times the airlines, certainly in the United States, they require incoming foreign flights to provide to us who is on board. Who is coming. So, they can check against no fly lists, et cetera. And Beijing is pretty tight with their passport control and with their visas. So something slipped through the cracks, perhaps at the airlines and certainly with the authorities it appears.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Good point. I have flown to China many times before, and if there's a country that is very tough on visas, passports, checks, et cetera, and they ask for it in advance, it is certainly China. Tom, if I could ask you, would someone -- and just again to remind our viewers, there are other reasons I imagine you would be aware of, Tom, smuggling, law enforcement issues, separate from a terrorist issue, that would lead someone to steal a passport to get on an airplane. But to do that, does it give you a sign that someone would need help on the ground? FUENTES: Well, it could. But in this case, by the way, in terms of visas for China, there are seven cities in China, including Beijing, that allow entry without a visa, as long as you depart within 72 hours. So if the person had purchased a round trip ticket let's say, to fly from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing and return within that 72 hours, no visa would be required from the Chinese government. So the only checks for the documents would have to occur in Kuala Lumpur before the plane departed. And if no checks were done, as in this case apparently, tickets would be -- or boarding passes would be issued.

SCIUTTO: Fascinating. And I understand. I remember that. That just happened in the last year or two I think where they allowed that transiting passengers through Beijing. But it's great, to both of you, there are other reasons that people would steal a passport and get on a plane, right? It doesn't, you know, people would be smuggling something, they could be running away from something. I mean, there's a market for stolen passports out there, isn't there, Mary?

SCIAVO: Well, absolutely. And even in the United States, I mean, we can just take on other countries, we have a tremendous problem with our documentation, our driver's licenses, our everything can be forged and faked here. And we certainly have a problem with that, as well. But that's why you have the various checklists to check against and had they been identified as stolen passports, and you know, they could have faked passports too, but there were stolen, so there was a way to flag them in advance. And that's what is disturbing as it apparently wasn't checked.

SCIUTTO: Well, Mary, with your Department of Transportation background, let me ask you this, in 2009, we had this Air France plane disappear over the Atlantic. There was no warning, there was no mayday call. That turned out to be something mechanical, or I think there were some pilot error involved. So, here you have another plane, disappears without any mayday. Walk us through the possible explanations for that.

SCIAVO: Well, I've worked several accidents where it's a catastrophic mechanical failure. For example, the TWA 800, the Air France flight recently from Brazil to Paris. The Chuck Seaplane of course was in the daytime. If people could see it in that case, the wing came off. And here on this plane, there was previous wing damage. It could have had catastrophic failure. At TWA 800, the center wing tank, it's possible that this plane didn't have a full fuel tank, although Boeing changed that system, it's much safer today.

And there had been many other things where catastrophic failure has occurred. You know, we know it's catastrophic, because this plane sends signals itself. It's very advance plan, it continuously send signals itself. The pilots don't even have to do it, back to its home base. And if it's experiencing problems, it's constantly updating through this computer system. And also in the communications, it wasn't just a communications failure why something was going on. Because this plane has several independent systems. It has backups to backups. So, the plane would have helped send out information, unless whatever happened was so catastrophic that it stopped all communications.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, fascinating. Thanks very much to both of you. Mary Sciavo, former inspector general of the Department of Transportation. Tom Fuentes, our legal analyst as well as former assistant director of the FBI. Tom is going to be back with us as we continue to follow this story, catastrophic failure, a real mystery off the coast of Vietnam, this crash plane. Thanks very much to both of you.

Also overseas, the crisis in Ukraine is escalating to new levels and Russia's President Putin is showing no signs of retreat. In Crimea, mass troops seize control of the military office in the region's capital in Simferopol. This comes as Secretary of State John Kerry issued a new warning to his Russian counterparts Sergei Lavrov. Kerry made clear that Russia in his words continued military escalation may soon close any available space for diplomacy.

Here's our own Anna Coren with more, from on the ground in Crimea.

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The military buildup of Russian troops here on the Crimean Peninsula has entered a new phase, with the Ukrainian defense ministry saying that a convoy of trucks carrying Russian troops has crossed the Russian border and it's heading towards Crimea. The Crimean government delays there already 30,000 Russian troops here, the number will only grow as the day for the referendum draws closer. When just over a week, the citizens of Crimea will decide that this region becomes part of Russia. The self- appointed government has already said that only Russian forces should be on Crimean soil.

And Ukrainian troops should swear allegiance to Russia or leave. Attacks on military bases are becoming more frequent and brazen. A military office has been stormed here in Simferopol by armed pro- Russian forces. Or an Air Force base was attacked by Russian troops after they rammed a truck into the gate. They eventually retreated, but the scene turned ugly when local militia began bashing journalists.

In other developments, military observers from OSCE in Europe had been turned back from entering Crimea for the third day in a row. Warning shots were fired and they're now deciding whether or not they will try to enter the Crimean Peninsula again. Anna Coren, CNN, Simferopol on the Crimean Peninsula, Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, back home here in the U.S., we have a new information about a pregnant mother accused of trying to drown her children by driving her minivan into the ocean. You see it there. And get this, police had a warning about her behavior in advance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: The pregnant woman accused of trying to drown her children by driving her van into the ocean appeared in a Florida courtroom today. A judge in Daytona Beach set Ebony Wilkerson's bond at $1.2 million. She faces three counts of attempted first degree murder and a maximum of 30 years in prison if she's convicted. And we're learning more about that day she allegedly trying to kill her children. You're seeing it the moment right there as she drove her car into the ocean. Wilkerson apparently checked herself out of a hospital that day and was stopped by police who couldn't find a reason to hold her. Then she went on to do this. Her sister said, Wilkerson believed there were demons in her house.

Joining me now to talk about this case, a mysterious one, we have criminal defense attorney Holly Hughes, as well as Dr. Jeff Gardere, a psychologist and assistant professor at New York's Touro Medical School. Holly, if I can I want to start with you. Our information is no alcohol or drugs were found in her system, but police have not ruled out mental issues. What at this stage, and grant it, it's early, do you think her defense is likely to be?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the first thing they're going to do, Jim, is move for a psychiatric evaluation. They're going to have a professional interview her and find out if this is what we call a delusion that she could not fight. If she was under this delusion that what she was doing was right, she could not appreciate the difference between right and wrong and thought she was justified, this may be a situation like what we saw with Andrea Yates, you remember the mom who drowned her five children in the tub, but didn't hike from it, told everybody it was the right thing to do. So that's the first thing they're going to do is have her examined.

SCIUTTO: Well, it looks like lot of cost to do that. We have Jeff Gardere here as well. Jeff, and police say Wilkerson told her children to close their eyes and go to sleep. She was taking them to a better place before she drove into that surf there. What does that tell you about her mental state? I understand that some of her family members also mentioned the idea of postpartum depression, which we've seen a lot of very painful and disturbing cases involving that.

DR. JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. Let's be aware that first of all, for a mother to want to kill her children at the very minimum, there's some sort of a psychopathic personality. I think in this case, we're looking at someone with some sort of a paranoid schizophrenia, a mental breakdown. We talked about the demons. She said that she saw Jesus Christ in her home. So, this is a woman who I believe is very, very disturbed. But we also have to look at the fact that not just postpartum depression being an issue, but there are also documented cases of pre-partum depression, someone who is pregnant, and because of the hormonal imbalance, and in this case, perhaps a lot of stressors. She claims that she was abused. There's documentation of that, of a man who was abusing her, perhaps the father of some of the children or one of the children at the very least. All of those things would add to the clinical picture here of some sort of a psychosis.

SCIUTTO: Holly, one quick question for you. Still on this case, what we know now and granted early. Is that enough to build an insanity defense?

HUGHES: Absolutely. If they find the -- not appreciated, the difference between right and wrong, or understand the nature of her actions, Jim, yes, it would be enough for her to enter maybe a guilty but mentally ill plea and in that case, she would be put into a psychiatric institution as opposed to a correctional institution and get the help she desperately needs.

SCIUTTO: And Jeff, in just one word, if you are an expert on a case like this called into court, would you corroborate that as a defense?

GARDERE: Absolutely. This is a woman who I truly believe is mentally ill. Some sort of a psychosis, whether post or pre-partum.

SCIUTTO: All right. Thanks very much, Holly and Jeff. Please don't go anywhere because coming up, we have a sad truth about a man put to death for killing his kids. New evidence ten years later as revealed he may have been innocent. That's coming up right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. What does the United States have in common with Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia? The answer is, the death penalty. According to amnesty international, those four nations and China are responsible for 82 percent of the world's executions. So it's no wonder that capital punishment is a hotly debated issue here, especially when you hear about death row inmates being exonerated after years often behind bars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIRK BLOODSWORTH, DNA TESTING EXONERATED HIM ON DEATH ROW: Just picture yourself one day, you wake up at about 3:00 in the morning, the banging on the door. And then somebody takes you in handcuffs, reads you your rights, and put you in a police car and that's the last time you see your hometown for eight years, 10 months and 19 days. And then they go on top of that all, they're going to tell you they're going to execute you for something you didn't do. It was awful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That was Kirk Bloodsworth, a former marine, he became the first person in the U.S. exonerated by DNA testing while on death row. His story is featured in CNN's original series, "Death Row Stories."

So, let me bring back criminal defense attorney Holly Hughes and Dr. Jeff Gardere, a psychologist and assistant professor at New York's Touro Medical School. And let's turn to another case first. Cameron Todd Willingham was executed ten years ago in Texas for murdering his three young daughters in a house fire. But newly discovered evidence may prove that Willingham was in fact innocent. Holly, just looking at that case, if this man is found innocent ten years after his execution, we have had a number of cases where people have been exonerated while on death row, close. This is someone who would have been killed on death row, what would that mean for the U.S. Justice system and for the death penalty in America?

HUGHES: Well, what it would mean, Justice Antonin Scalia of the United States Supreme Court had once written an opinion in an appeal, well, there is not one proven case where somebody innocent has been executed. What it would mean to him is that statement is no longer true. If they have actual proof of innocence, there is no do-overs. You cannot give this man back his life. And his family has even said, they're such dignified people, look, we're not suing. This isn't about money. We just want the truth to come out and we want his name cleared. What this would do, if they can prove it, is give a huge boost to the death penalty opponents who say you cannot give the death penalty because what if you are wrong? This is the strongest evidence that that possibility has become a reality.

SCIUTTO: It's just a nightmare story. I can't even imagine. So, Jeff, you know, I have seen people like Bloodsworth, and I can't imagine how they survive this, right? In one piece. If you're on death row knowing you were there for a crime you didn't commit, how do people have the strength to get through that, how does it affect them mentally?

GARDERE: Well, knowing that they're truly innocent is what gets them through. They know that if nothing else, they can look at themselves in the mirror, even if one day they're going to die. But what we find psychologically, these people become very, very strong. They're not just survivors. They become victors. They transform their lives completely, knowing that they're innocent, knowing that they're being crucified in this way takes them to a whole level, different level psychologically where they become much wiser and become much more peaceful, knowing that if they have to go to the beyond, at least they did it in a way that they knew they were innocent.

SCIUTTO: Incredibly powerful stories you can imagine. Holly, in light of these cases like this, plus numbers, I mean, there are fewer people sent to death row these days, partly because of a decline in crime rates. But there is also still large political support for political and public support for the death penalty in the worst cases, the worst crimes. Why do you think the U.S. keeps capital punishment despite these inconsistencies, and do you see it heading in a direction at all where it would disappear?

HUGHES: Well, I think, Jim, a lot of it is based on what Justice Antonin Scalia wrote. Well, it's never happened that we've executed an innocent person. That argument is going to go by the wayside. The reason I think we still embrace capital punishment, and remember, when we talked about the facts of this case, who were the victims? Three young children. So when you see crimes against children, the natural human reaction is, you want that person to never be able to do it again. It is a guttural instinct. You know, we want to protect our children. We want to protect our elderly. So I don't necessarily see the death penalty going away. Because if this one case is proven, then the people, the proponents who are for it are just going to say, OK, it happened once in 800 executions.

And bear in mind too in this particular case, there is the allegation that the prosecutor withheld exculpatory evidence. He gave a deal to an informant who testified against Mr. Willingham. That doesn't happen in a lot of cases. So the proponents are going to say, OK, even if it's bad in this one instance, it's still justified in those instances when you see children, elderly people, you know, tortured, murdered, rape, abused in horrific ways, we as a society are still crying out somebody has to pay for that and some of society wants the ultimate penalty exacted.

SCIUTTO: Well, this is an emotional case, possibly -- won the first time someone possibly exonerated after dying on death row. Thanks very much to Holly Hughes, Jeff Gardere, I appreciate you being with us.

A program note, don't miss the premier of CNN's original series "Death Row Stories," Sunday night, 9:00 Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

And coming up next here, the latest on the Malaysia Airlines plane that simply vanished from the sky with 239 people on board. That's coming up right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto, in Washington.

Right now, hundreds of families are waiting to hear any word about a commercial jet that just disappeared more than 24 hours ago. It happened between Malaysia and China. And investigators are closely looking at the passenger manifest. Two of the people, whose passports were used to board that Malaysian Airlines flight, tell officials their passports were stolen. They weren't on the flight at all. That means two people on this missing plane checked in with passports not issued to them. It's still early in the investigation and nobody has drawn any conclusions about this passport issue yet, but they are investigating.

CNN's Jim Clancy is in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where that airliner and its passengers were last seen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More than 24 hours after flight MH370 disappeared from radar screens and lost all contact, there is still no answers as to what may have happened on board, where that aircraft may have gone down. But as they continue the search, nothing is being ruled out.

The CEO of Malaysia Airlines.

AHMAD JUAHARI YANYA, CEO, MALAYSIA AIRLINES: We seem to be living by speculation now. So I think let's leave to the authorities to do their work.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you ruling out any possibility of terrorism?

YANYA: We're not ruling out anything.

CLANCY (voice-over): Vietnamese search-and-rescue crews say they spotted two large oil slicks between six and nine miles long some 90 miles south. The members of the Vietnamese air crews said they suspected those could have come from the jet liner. But there's no confirmation of that. At first light, it is expected that more surface ships, as well as aircraft will be out in that specific area looking for any evidence that they may be able to find.

This is a crash that stretches right across international boarders. It affects some 14 nationalities. More than half of the 239 passengers and crew who are aboard flight MH370 are said to have been Chinese nationals. They included a group of distinguished artists, calligraphers who had come to Kuala Lumpur and were returning to Beijing. It included elderly tourists.

(on camera): As the search continues, as questions are continuing to be asked, the people, whose family members, whose loved ones were aboard that aircraft, are being sequestered here at Kuala Lumpur International Airport by authorities the away from the media. They are obviously awaiting any word on the whereabouts of their loved ones. They have many, many questions, but the one that is perhaps most serious right now, the one most difficult to answer, is why?

Jim Clancy, CNN, Kuala Lumpur.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Also overseas, the Ukraine crisis is getting more volatile with fresh rounds of bullying from pro Russian forces in Crimea.

Meanwhile, President Obama personally spoke with six key leaders today, all agreeing that Russia needs to immediately de-escalate the situation. The president spoke with the British prime minister, David Cameron; France's president, Francois Hollande; and Italy's prime minister, Renzi. Obama also hosted a conference call with three Baltic leaders, the presidents of Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. This comes as Secretary of State John Kerry issued a new warning to his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, making sure that Russia's continued military escalation, in his words, may soon close any available space for diplomacy.

In Crimea, masked troops seized control of a military office. This video shows unmarked military trucks enroute to the city, as well.

And "New York Times" columnist, Nicholas Kristof, is weighing in on critics who say President Obama's so-called weakness in foreign policy led to the crisis situation in Ukraine.

Our own Rosa Flores spoke with Nicholas Kristof, and she joins me now from New York.

Rosa, what did he have to say?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, good evening. I had a great conversation with Nick, and he said this notion that President Obama's weakness somehow led Putin to seize Crimea is not substantiated by facts. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize President Obama's foreign policy. In the case of Syria, there isn't much of a policy. He's appointed some really weak ambassadors. But in the case of Ukraine, it's not that his weakness led President Putin to do anything there. I think this notion that somehow Obama's weakness led Putin to seize Crimea is just completely unsupported by the facts.

FLORES: I've got to ask you this, because I talked to several Ukrainian families here in the United States, and they all tell me the same thing. They all say that they have family that they communicate with on a daily basis. They're very worried. They're watching the news second by second, hoping that there is peace. And they're focusing in on Crimea and hoping that the Russian troops leave so that they can have peace. Do you see that happening?

KRISTOF: Boy, I wish I could. But I guess it seems to me the best case scenario, which is that international observers would go in and that, thereby, Putin would get a face-saving excuse to pull back the troops and say, OK, Russian-speaking people in Crimea are going to be protected, we don't need our troops. But I don't think that is very realistic. I don't think that's going to happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FLORES: One of the other things that stood out to me about his article was he mentioned all of this is a stumble for Putin. I asked, what? Any observer would say that Putin has the upper hand. He said this, Jim. He said, "If you look at the long-term economic impact of this, it's not good to be Putin." He's very popular right now at 66 percent. But he said, think about the international business relations that are being perhaps broken or compromised, and trade relations. He says, in the long run, this is not good for Russia -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: Interesting for sure.

Thank you, Rosa. A sobering read as to how quickly it will be resolved.

Thanks very much for that.

Coming up, a vote going on right now offers an early clue about who will be the Republican front-runner in 2016. We'll give you the results right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto, in Washington.

Not far from here, we're waiting for the results of the presidential straw poll at the Conservative Political Action Conference, or CPAC as it's known. It's a huge annual gathering of conservatives.

I'm joined by CNN political commentators, Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill.

This is a straw poll. Just to remind our viewers, it's not scientific, but a lot of people pay attention to the results, particularly as we get closer to 2016. Ben, if I could start with you first. As a conservative, who are you betting on, and who do you think would be the best winner for the GOP?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think right now it is -- you've got so many qualified guys. This is one of the fields I've seen -- the first field I've seen in a long time I think there are four or five people that can do well. Chris Christie got a standing ovation, so did Rick Perry. You have others like Ted Cruz that got a standing ovation. I wouldn't be surprised if Ted Cruz won the straw poll to be honest with you, because he was absolutely loved at this convention and he had a lot of people really rallying behind him. So if that happens, some people say he would be an underdog. But in a conservative conference like this, maybe not so much.

SCIUTTO: Marc, asking you just about the relevance of this. It's 2014. We've got two and a half years before the Election Day. How valuable an indicator is the winner of this poll for November 2016?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR; I mean, it's always valuable because it gives you a window into what voters are thinking about and some of the power brokers of the GOP. But we've seen people like Michele Bachmann win straw polls before and it didn't translate into real voting.

(LAUGHTER)

What you might find is that this also lets us know who embodies mainline conservative values, not necessarily those that voters want in a real election. In other words, somebody like Rand Paul or Ted Cruz may do really well in a straw poll right now, because they're saying the things that voters want to hear. But when it comes time for a real election, somebody like a Chris Christie or Jeb Bush might be more desirable, because they think they have a legit shot at beating Hillary Clinton.

SCIUTTO: You make a great point there, Marc. I want to remind our viewers, we're still waiting for the results of that straw poll. Once we have them, we'll give them to you.

Ronald Reagan won this a number of times back in the day. More recently, the poll, a father and son pair has done very well. Is CPAC becoming a bastion of Libertarian supporters?

FERGUSON: I think it's becoming more Libertarian and more true freedom. Any time you have a convention like this, you'll have the top 1 percent who are involved in the system that come to these events. Most people are flying here, spending their own dollar to come here. So you're really engaged. It doesn't mean it's going to be the overall GOP viewpoint for the future.

And when you say who does it matter to? It always matters to the winner. You can walk around and say to other people, hey, I won that straw poll at CPAC, you need to look at me as a serious candidate, you need to give me money. And everyone is going to down play it saying it's just these people that fly in town, it's not that big of a deal. So it depends on how you spin it as a candidate. SCIUTTO: Are you saying spending money matters in a presidential election?

(LAUGHTER)

FERGUSON: Yeah, I know. Shocking.

SCIUTTO: I want to ask you about some of the moments before we get to the straw poll results. You had an interesting moment when Mitch McConnell, who, as you know, facing a big primary challenge in Kentucky. He walked on stage, brandishing a gun, gave an NRA Award to retiring Senator Coburn. And there you have a picture there. Big applause. Is that a good image for McConnell and the Republican Party?

Maybe start with you, Marc.

LAMONT HILL: It's a great image in terms of his base. He wants to continue to appeal to his base. Giving an NRA aware to Coburn is a good look for him. I'm not sure everyone at home was pleased with it. Some people were uncomfortable. Some people were offended. But the mainline, the heart of the party was fine with it.

In terms of how that makes Republicans look, it still continues to box them in as extremists, as people who don't have their finger on the pulse of America, and as people that might be insensitive. I don't have a problem with the gun but I think some voters will.

SCIUTTO: Ben?

FERGUSON: It's a classic old-school musket. It's not an AR-15. It's something they've been doing for years. And the only people that are offended by it are those that aren't going to vote for any Republican candidate no matter what any way. So I'm not worried if I'm one of those guys on that stage, because if you're offended by it, you probably weren't going to vote for me in the first place. So I'm not too worried at all. And I think that's why you see this award be such a big deal and why so many Republicans like it.

SCIUTTO: Echoes of that --

(CROSSTALK)

Remember Charlton Heston a number of years ago.

FERGUSON: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: Images like that.

Thank you very much to both of you, Mark Lamont Hill, Ben Ferguson. Appreciate it.

When we come back after the break, we'll have the results from that CPAC straw poll. Who Republicans, at least in 2014, think would be the best candidate in 2016. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: In Los Angeles public schools, nearly one in five kids drops out before graduation. But this week's "CNN Hero," Keren Taylor, is helping teenage girls in L.A. to find their voice and their future.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I blossom with each pen mark.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I found myself in the words.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Every girl has a story to tell.

KEREN TAYLOR, CNN HERO: Some of our girls are facing some of the greatest challenges teenagers are ever facing, pregnancy, incarceration, violence in their family and at school. Those girls need a mentor. They need to be inspired about their own voice.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Life in the light can be so bright. Nothing can be so pure.

TAYLOR: Writing and self-expression can give them a tool for moving forward.

Say something that nobody else has said before, because you have your own way of saying things.

We match underserved girls with professional women writers for mentoring and workshops.

I want to match you, Krista, with Christie.

The moment you ask a young person, tell me about something you are passionate about, the writing and the ideas just flow.

You know you are going to read today.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I was kind of scare. I am really quiet. I keep to myself. She is so excited and enthusiastic about writing. I absolutely love her.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Writing gave me that position in life like I'm a girl and I have a story to tell.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Their senses are deluded by the sparkly things that cross their eyes.

Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

TAYLOR: We need to help girls see that their voice matters.

You have a lot of good stuff here. What I would like to hear more is about you.

To give a girl tools to be able to be positive and thrive and rise above whatever challenges she is facing, that fantastic.

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: I'm Jim Sciutto, in Washington. And welcome back.

As we have been promising, we have just learned the results of the presidential straw conference, or the CPAC as it is known, a conservative gathering of political activists.

And we have CNN political reporter, Peter Hamby, on the scene with the news with the news, like the Oscars.

So, Peter, who won out this year?

PETER HAMBY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, it is just like the Oscars, Jim. Rand Paul won. It is not a surprise, but he won big. I am reading the results here from the "Washington Times." And they are announcing the straw polls right behind me. Rand Paul won 31 percent of the straw poll vote, which is really a huge margin of victory. A bigger margin of victory than past winners. Second place was Ted Cruz, who got 11 percent. He was followed in third place surprisingly by Ben Carson, a conservative neurosurgeon who makes the rounds at the conservative events like this. Some people want him to run for president. And New Jersey Governor Chris Christie came in fourth, and that is good for him, because this is not the crowd and movement, conservatives and the conservative base. But he did give a good speech this year.

One thing they just said, Jim, that I should point out is that the 18- 25-year-olds made up almost half of the straw poll vote here. And again, this is a conference dominated by young people, by Libertarians, and so no surprise that Rand Paul won in that fashion -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: And that is interesting, Peter, because some would think that the crowd would be older and white, and et cetera, and the fact that they're young, that would seem to add value to the results here. But looking at Rand Paul, the Libertarian background, but he has national appeal. He is on television a lot. He has fans. Does this make him, at least for now, the Republican front-runner for 2016?

HAMBY: I'm not sure that is the case. There is certainly a lot of buzz in the political circles that he is certainly a top-tier candidate. His views cut across many different wings of the Republican Party. Yesterday, he gave a speech here attacking the National Security Administration, and focused heavily on how the government shouldn't involve itself in your cell phones and your credit card transactions and the young people really enjoyed that.

But look at this. Ron Paul, his father, finished third place in Iowa and he finished second place in New Hampshire. If Rand Paul can grow that share of the vote, and expand his appeal beyond just that Libertarian base, that is a win in Iowa, and that sis a win in New Hampshire and maybe South Carolina in a fractured field. So he should absolutely be considered a top-tier candidate at this point. And one other --

SCIUTTO: And behind you, just for our viewers, for our viewers, you are hearing the enthusiasm, and that is Rand Paul on the stage behind you, and you can hear the cheers greeting him, and greeting him as the winner of this.

You mentioned Chris Christie finishing fourth. How is that an OK finish for him?

HAMBY: Well, the fact that he only got 9 percent of the vote here, but again, expectations for him coming in here were so low. You know, it was almost surprising when he got such a great reception here. Look, Chris Christie is a talented politician, and he knew the audience and sort of framed himself as a brave conservative, taking on the unions. He hit home the fact that he was pro life, which was important, because if you do go into a lot of the conservative events, especially over the past year, and talk the conservative activists, a lot of conservatives didn't know he is against abortion rights. Something going back to when he had a sort of buddy-buddy act with President Obama in the wake of Hurricane Sandy, conservatives thought he was sort of moderate liberal split across the board. But he came here and said, I am pro life, and that helps him.

This is -- below the first place finish, it is expectations game. And Rick Perry, for example, gave a good speech here. I was talking to some people here who thought that Rick Perry would do better, and he didn't. So a fourth place finish for Chris Christie is a win for him on the heels of a really good speech from him.

Thanks very much to Peter Hamby at the CPAC conference.

Just to remind our viewers, the results of that straw poll for 2016, 31 percent for Rand Paul.