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Missing Malaysia Plane

Aired March 11, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon. I'm Don Lemon, in today for Brooke Baldwin.

We are in breaking news coverage here on CNN. I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world.

The breaking news is the mystery on Flight 370. We have just learned this new information, that the plane was way off course when it went missing. This information is coming to us from a senior Malaysian air force official. They have traced the last signs of the plane to a very small island in the Straits of Malacca. Now, if the air force information is correct, OK, this is huge. It means the plane had almost done a complete u-turn and was flying in the opposite direction from its scheduled destination, Beijing to the north.

Also the new information and indication here is of those two Iranian men who boarded this plane with stolen passports. One is 18, who was trying to join his mother in Germany. The other is 29 years old. He was trying to get to Denmark. Investigators say the men's motive appears to be illegal immigration and not terrorism. But the head of the Central Intelligence Agency says they're not ready to rule out other terrorism links to this plane just yet. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: This is not the time to relax because we know that there are terrorist groups that are still determined to carry out attacks, including against -- especially against aircraft.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this point you're not ruling out that it could be -

BRENNAN: No, I wouldn't rule it out -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some sort of terrorist -

BRENNAN: At all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So that was CIA Director John Brennan speaking as the search turns to the other side of the western part of the Malaysian peninsula. Again, this is new information just coming in to CNN. And still, no answers from distressed family members. Tensions boiling over between the families and representatives of Malaysia Airlines in Beijing today.

(VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So let's get more now on the latest developments here. CNN is learning the plane was far off of its course. I want to bring in Andrew Stevens. He's in Kuala Lumpur. Nic Robertson is in London for us.

Andrew, to you first. Walk us through this new information. What does this mean?

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don, this information came to us from a very senior Malaysian air force man. He can't reveal his identity - we can't reveal his identity because he's not authorized to speak to the press. But this is what we are hearing. And it does tie in with the suggestions that have been floating around for the last couple of days.

The plane took off from Kuala Lumpur. Its last known point where it was in contact with ground control was just as it was entering Vietnamese air space from Malaysian air space. And it was - the information's being set out by transponders. These are - this is equipment which actually identifies the specific aircraft so you know exactly what it is you're looking at.

At that point, those transponders stopped working. We don't know why. But primary radar, which is a less sophisticated radar which is being used both by civilian and by the military, continued to track this blip which the plane had now become. It turned. It did almost a u-turn and headed back towards Malaysia. Remember, this was an hour into the flight. So it's cleared the Malaysian mainland. It is now heading back towards the Malaysian mainland. It continued to fly for another hour, perhaps a bit longer, across the Malaysian mainland to the other side of the west coast into the Straits of Malacca.

And the last known sighting, the last known contact, when that blip was still on the radar screens, occurred over a very small island, which is roughly halfway between Malaysia and Sumatra, which is an Indonesian island. That's what we know. We don't know what happened next, but what it does mean is that the search area, which has already been included in this area, but not to the same degree, we're expecting the search area now to be really, really the focus of this massive international search now. Some 47 aircraft and a similar number of vessels now searching. A lot of that material is going to be switched to this search area. That's what we're hearing.

LEMON: Andrew Stevens in Kuala Lumpur, stand by.

I want to update our viewers. Again, new information into CNN. I want to welcome our viewers again from around the world.

We're getting new information that this plane veered severely off course. It appears that it had turned back to go to where it came from. That's new information coming into CNN. And according to a Malaysian official from the air force, who declined to be named because he's not authorized to speak, he said the transponder apparently stopped working at about the time the flight controllers lost contact with the plane near the coast of Vietnam and they believe that it kept flying -- this is, again, new information -- for about an hour, hour and a half without any radar, without any instrumentation, or at least any evidence of where the plane might have been traveling.

I want to go to Nic Robertson, who is now in London.

Nic, here's some information that one official is saying, if this is correct, these are ominous signs that increasingly call into question whether someone in the cockpit might have deliberately steered the plane away from its intended destination.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It certainly appears that the plane couldn't have turned itself. Somebody must have done it. And potentially they may also have maliciously disconnected, turned off the transponder so the plane could no longer be recognized, but the plane, that it was still being picked up on primary radar. So it does leave this question very much open.

We know that the police investigating say that they are looking at hijack, sabotage, personal issues, or psychological issues with the crew or with the passengers onboard the aircraft. But it really does open up again the possibility that there might be some kind of terror act. No one is introducing names of organizations. There's no credible or thoroughly corroborated claim of responsibility here so far. But it is known that al Qaeda likes to target aircraft. Al Qaeda in Yemen has written about how people should train to become pilots and then drug the co-pilot to take control of the aircraft.

This is speculation. We just don't know. We don't have the information. But somebody must have taken control of that aircraft, as you say, in the cockpit and turned it. And right now, we just don't know who that is.

Don.

LEMON: Nic Robertson in London, I want you to stand by. Andrew Stevens in Kuala Lumpur, I want you to stand by as well because I want to bring in Tom Fuentes. He's a CNN law enforcement analyst. He's joining us by phone.

So, Tom, what do you make of this latest information about the positioning of this plane?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via telephone): Hi, Don.

Same thing everybody else is saying. You still can't rule out some partial mechanical failure, enough to eliminate communication maybe, but not enough to bring the plane immediately down. But you can't rule out either the act of terrorism. Obviously appears to not be a catastrophic explosion or the plane wouldn't be airborne for another hour and a half. But it could include somebody gaining access to that cockpit and taking over the controls or forcing the pilot and co-pilot to fly where they wanted to fly and disengaging the transponder at the same time. Maybe they were able to take control before they did that. And obviously they're already raising the issue about the mental health and stability of the pilots.

So you have all of these are possibilities. It could still be mechanical. It could still be suicide. It could still be terrorism. It's as baffling as it ever was, other than now there's a new place to at least center the search upon.

LEMON: We're looking at thousands upon thousands of miles of ocean there, if it turned around, and we have not heard from it. We have not heard anything from this plane. Could they possibly have landed somewhere, found land somewhere, if this was, indeed, some sort of hijacking or terrorist attack?

FUENTES: I've flown over those countries, Indonesia and Malaysia, many times. And, you know, there's dense jungle. There's volcanos, mountains. It seems pretty unlikely to me, but pilots would know, you know, the area geographically better than I would. But it seems unlikely they could find a safe place to put that aircraft down. It would need a reasonably long runway to do it. So, again, you still have the possibility that it could have gone down in a remote jungle area and just the searches have been so far off target that nobody, you know, has been looking in the right place all along.

LEMON: Yes. Very interesting. And what do you make of these officials that are saying now that this really adds to the mystery here, that this indeed - it appears that someone would have turned off the instrumentation or the tracking devices on the plane, and if they were turning a different direction, that it would lead towards some sort of foul play? Do you agree with that, Tom?

FUENTES: Well, it depends on the officials. If you're talking to pilots, aviation experts, you know, you have to respect their opinion of what that aircraft was capable of doing with partial electricity or, you know, under those kind of circumstances. But as far as the law enforcement and the intelligence people, I think that there's been too much made of what they said or what they didn't say or how they said it. I think Ron Noble yesterday, in his press conference, was basically trying to say that there was less suspicion on the two Iranians using the false passports and that they individually may have looked less like terrorists but that doesn't rule out the other 240 (ph) people on the aircraft, you know, that were on - that were flying.

LEMON: Tom -

FUENTES: And it also doesn't rule out that the mysterious guy gave them - gave somebody a package to put in checked luggage that, you know, that the passenger was unwitting and unknowledgeable of something bad about to happen. So that's always a possibility.

LEMON: I want to give you the direct quote here. It says, "if correct, the information that we're getting, these are ominous signs that increasingly call into question whether someone in the cockpit might have deliberately steered the plane away from its intended destination." And that is according to a former U.S. aviation investigator.

Tom.

FUENTES: OK. Well, I would get him back on the phone and find out what he thinks now.

LEMON: All right. Thank you very much, Tom Fuentes. We will do that.

FUENTES: Because, I don't know. It just doesn't - you know, whether people are saying that you've just had on the air and Wolf Blitzer just had on the air are saying that they could do that and the plane could stay in the air another hour and a half even if all electricity went out.

LEMON: Tom Fuentes, thank you very much. Tom, we'll get back to you. Also, we'll get as many officials on the phone as we can.

I want to just tell you the breaking news here on CNN. This is the mystery of Flight 370. We have just learned new information that the plane was way off course when it went missing. This is information that's just coming in from us from a senior Malaysian air force official. It says they have traced the last signs of the plane to a very small island in the Straits of Malacca. If the air force information is correct, this is huge information. It means that the plane had almost done a complete u-turn and was flying in the opposite direction from its scheduled destination, Beijing to the north.

I want to bring in now David Soucie in Denver. He is the author of "Why Planes Crash: An Accident Investigator Fight for Safe Skies," and a former FAA safety inspector.

David, thank you. Good to see you today. We had a great conversation last night.

This kind of changes a lot of what we talked about on the air last night. Given this new information, the plane was way off course when it lost contact. What does that tell you?

DAVID SOUCIE, AUTHOR, "WHY PLANES CRASH": Well, it changes a lot from what we talked about last night. The -- people need to understand what it takes for a 777 to become invisible. Everything on that airplane is triple redundant. The electrical systems, the charging systems, the battery systems, the communication systems, even the transponders are on completely separate buses. The chance that all the electrical system was out of that aircraft would have indicated a much more massive failure of some kind. So to think that all of that that had to happen to make that aircraft invisible and turn around and go the other direction, like you said, if this information is correct, really stands a lot to reason to me that someone forced those pilots to take control of the aircraft and take it off course.

LEMON: So we're looking at the map now -- go ahead, continue. Continue. SOUCIE: Yes. The thought that someone in the cockpit, one of the pilots took over, is highly unlikely to me, for one reason that typical -- in the past, when that's happened, it was when one of the pilots had left the cabin to use the restroom, the door was locked and then that other pilot took control. The -- for that to have happened during that phase of flight, where they were just going into Vietnam air space, highly unlikely because during that time you need both pilots to do the transition. You're doing cross checks and double checks with each other during that transition time. So the thought that that happened is -- seems unlikely to me.

LEMON: Yes. There was a -- we had just a map up earlier, just a second ago, of the range -- there it is right there, the range of where this plane could go. That's a maximum range with the amount of fuel that it had. And I don't know if you can see air, but looking at that, there is a lot of land and a whole lot of ocean, a whole lot of water where this plane could have landed or where it could have gone.

SOUCIE: Right. Right. And again, if we're relying on the primary radar, the secondary radar is kind of like the polo to the Marco. When primary radar is out looking, it can say, hey, I see something out there. But until you get the polo back, which is the modes (ph) transponder telling you here's who I am, here's where I am, that's the secondary information that's missing. So the -- from the cockpit, you can turn that off. What you can't turn off is the primary radar, which is going to tell you there is something out there.

So I think with the search, you're right, it's a huge area where it could go. But if this information's correct, it's very significant, very significant indeed, and that would really narrow that search down. Without that, the chance of finding an aircraft, particularly if it didn't have an in-flight breakup and strewn material in a long direction, the chances of finding that aircraft are very, very slim.

LEMON: It's about a 4,000-mile radius and that's quite a bit of area there.

You know, we talked a lot about ghost flights last night that you have investigated before, but I'm wondering if this is - if this even matters now. You've actually investigated them before. Can investigators learn something from these previous crashes, or do you think with the -- in light of this new information, that that's even relevant anymore, David?

SOUCIE: I'm beginning to think that it's less and less relevant as we go forward, and it's moving into a security area rather than an aviation issue. You know, I really believe that this is something that's beyond my expertise. We're looking more at -- just from what I know of the aircraft and where it's been and where it was headed, this information points directly to the fact that that aircraft moved by human hand. It wasn't a mechanical failure. It doesn't appear to me that there was any kind of massive breakup of the aircraft in flight. I'm leaning more and more towards handing this back over into the security area.

LEMON: David Soucie, stand by. We appreciate you. Now I want to bring in former inspector general from the Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo. She joins us by phone.

You heard, Mary, what David said he believes now, in light of this new information, that this plane moved and changed positions and direction by human hands.

MARY SCHIAVO, FMR. INSPECTOR GENERAL, DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION (via telephone): Well, it sounds like he's right. However there, I'm going back to previous accidents and previous (INAUDIBLE). There was a previous plane crash in which all electrical systems were lost on the aircraft, everything. And, of course, what you would logically do if you were flying, and that occurred to you -- I'm not saying that's what happened here, but there is one possibility, and that is, you would go back to where you are known. You would not take a plane into another country's air space if you cannot identify yourself. It would be highly, highly dangerous. There are ways you can do it. There's this whole series of things, like rocking your wings and things like that, but you can't do it at night.

And so if you had lost power, electrical power, any kind of electrical power and you were simply on the - and this is a big if, but I do know of an accident like this, you would turn back. You would lose your instruments. It's an issue how long you would even have power to fly. So there is still a possibility it's mechanical. But it does look more like someone was directing the plane. But Mike (ph) said, I do know of one accident where a similar situation was mechanical.

LEMON: Mary Schiavo, we're going to need you. Stand by as well.

The breaking news here on CNN, the mystery of Flight 370. We have learned some new information. I want to welcome our viewers, of course, here in the United States and around the world. New information on that plane, that it was way off course when it went missing. This information is coming to us from a senior Malaysian air force official. They have traced the last signs of the plane to a very small island in the Straits of Malacca.

If the air force information is correct, this is a huge development, a big break in the investigation. It means the plane had almost done a complete u-turn and was flying into the opposite direction from its scheduled destination. It was flying north to Beijing.

We'll have more information on this coming up, including our aviation expert in-house here, Richard Quest. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: There is some significant information to report in Flight 370, the disappearance of Flight 370. We have just learned from a senior Malaysian air force official that the plane was way off course. That it indeed had done almost a u-turn. If this information is correct, we are hearing that this is an enormous development in the investigation of what happened to this flight.

I want to bring in now our chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto in Washington. He joins us now with the latest developments.

Jim, what does this new information mean to you?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It means it's a very confusing situation and a lot of conflicting information coming out there. Because even with this air force chief saying that the plane diverted and flew on for more than an hour, ended up on the west side of that peninsula there, you have a spokesman in the prime minister's office being quoted now in some news reports saying that's not their information. So you still have confusion there. But it's certainly significant if it proves out to be a real lead, especially because they say it happened after the transponder was turned off, which under some circumstances would require action. It might require the pilot to do that or some massive mechanical failure.

Now, I've checked in with U.S. intel officials again today in light of this latest news and they tell me that nothing has changed significantly, that they have still not established a clear nexus or connection to terrorism, and that is despite public comments this morning from the director of the CIA, Brennan, who, when I asked him the same question about this transponder and other information, he said they are not ruling out terrorism as a possible cause at this point.

I think it is early still even a few days later. There's so much confusing information that no one is willing to make a hard conclusion, either to rule something in as an explanation or rule something out.

LEMON: Jim Sciutto, I concur, it is confusing. A lot of information. Stand by, Jim, if you want to weigh in on this because I'm going to bring in Richard Quest here from CNN International, and CNN domestic as well here in New York.

Are you a little bit fed up with some of the experts?

RICHARD QUEST, HOST, CNN'S "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": No, no, the -- nobody knows what's happened here.

LEMON: Yes.

QUEST: And everybody's grasping at the straws -

LEMON: Right.

QUEST: Or to try and find a plausible solution. From my friends who sort of text and sort of say it's on an island somewhere, to those of us who cover these things who say, well, that's highly unlikely, but it may be possible in these (INAUDIBLE).

Let's go back to that map. I want to look at the map, if we may, because look closely at the range we're talking about. So the plane goes north, and it goes north for the best part of 20 minutes as it gets towards 37,000 feet.

LEMON: Right. QUEST: And that's about roughly the time it would have taken to get over to that area. And then it does this dog leg turn to the west.

LEMON: Right.

QUEST: But it flies in that format for an hour and 10 minutes, if this is right. If this is right. An hour and 10 minutes. And it goes right the way back over the narrowest point of the Malaysian peninsula, which is about 300 miles wide, 350 miles wide.

Now, what's the significance? How does a 777 do that sort of flight for that length of time and nobody raises an eyebrow of what's going on?

LEMON: Right. That's the interesting part, because if that happened in Europe or in the United States, somebody -- we would have heard about it.

QUEST: Absolutely. And that is why also yesterday they not only widened the scope of the search to the Malacca Straits and the Andaman Sea, but also down across the peninsula of Malaysia as well.

LEMON: Could this plane - it appears - could it have had trouble -

QUEST: Yes.

LEMON: Because when a plane turns back like that -- and you heard what Mary Schiavo said, when a plane turns back like that, usually it's an indication there's trouble, doesn't want to go into a country - a foreign country with trouble. It wants to go back where it came from.

QUEST: Correct.

LEMON: Especially if it has enough fuel to do it. And that is a range right there. That's about -- but that's about 4,000 square miles.

QUEST: Right. But the thing is, what we're looking at now, let's go - let's go away from the terrorism aspect. Let's go away from the hijackings aspect.

LEMON: OK.

QUEST: And let's look at, say, for example, mechanical failure.

LEMON: Right.

QUEST: Major systems mechanical failure, which I know Mary tended (ph) towards, and many of us do tend towards the view that if it's not nefarious, you're talking about major mechanical failure. That can explain a power loss. It can explain the transponder failing.

LEMON: Not working, right.

QUEST: It can also explain all the various reporting systems failing as they continue to fly that route. LEMON: But, Richard, it doesn't explain the no trace of it unless, you know, I mean, sadly, if it's on the bottom of the ocean, it doesn't explain it --

QUEST: Oh, no, it doesn't explain that. But it would explain - it would explain the no communications, but the plane stays in the air.

LEMON: Right.

QUEST: We -- there have been numerous examples. I mean, you know, I can drag any one of 10 out that where there has been a major mechanical failure, but the aircraft has continued and they've continued to fly it, but with very limited communication abilities.

LEMON: OK.

QUEST: Unlikely, but we are now in the realms of who knows.

LEMON: I know you don't want to speculate.

QUEST: Go on.

LEMON: But all smart minds are leaning towards what you said, mechanical failure. It had trouble. It was turning back, and then all of a sudden it lost its way.

QUEST: It's not -- it's the most logical.

LEMON: OK.

QUEST: It's the most sensible solution.

LEMON: Right.

QUEST: I mean it is the most - it is the most experienced solution.

LEMON: Right.

QUEST: Most incidents happen by mechanical failure, followed by pilot error.

LEMON: Hold that thought. I want to tell our viewers again. I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. Here's the new information that we have just learned here on CNN. This is the breaking news.

The plane was way off its course. You're looking at the map of apparently where the plane had gone, where they believed the plane had gone, when they had indication, when the transponders were working. This where they believe the plane went. It had taken a u-turn and was heading north towards - north towards Beijing, correct? Kuala Lumpur and then heading back north.

So if this is indeed true, and we're getting this information from a senior Malaysian air force official, if this is indeed true, this is a major, major development in the investigation of what happened to this plane.

Richard Quest joins us again on the other side of this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)