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Malaysia Knocks Down Latest Leads; No Jet Debris on Satellite Images; High-Tech Tools in the Search for Flight 370; Interview with Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut
Aired March 13, 2014 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. It's Friday eve. Have a great morning. Thanks so much.
NEWSROOM starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, the mystery of Flight 370 deepens.
HISHAMMUDDIN BIN HUSSEIN, MALAYSIAN MINISTER OF TRANSPORTATION: The plane vanished. Trust me when I say we will not give up.
COSTELLO: Overnight search crews come up empty. This turned out to be nothing.
JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was near 370's flight path in waters between Malaysia and Vietnam. Approximately 140 miles from where the plane's transponder went silent.
COSTELLO: Is the search back to square one?
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Why have you got such limited knowledge as to what happened to Flight MH-370?
COSTELLO: And new reports just coming out claiming the flight was still in the air some four hours longer than previously thought.
CLANCY: The revelation could force a further expansion of the search that already spans 27,000 nautical square miles.
COSTELLO: This as American investigators are on the ground trying to find answers.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
The search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, more twists, more doubts. In an investigation that seems mired in confusion. This morning new claims that could vastly stretch the already sprawling search area. "The Wall Street Journal" reporting an engine on the missing airliner sent data for four hours after the plane vanished from the radar. That means the plane could have traveled another 2500 miles in any direction.
Malaysia is dismissing that report, though.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUSSEIN: Those reports are inaccurate. The last transmission from the aircraft was at 0107 which indicated everything was normal. Rolls Royce and Boeing teams are here in Kuala Lumpur and have worked with mass and investigations teams since Sunday. These issues have never been raised.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Still, the notion that Flight 370 flew for hours undetected is intriguing.
So let's talk about that. CNN's Richard Quest is in New York and in Washington, Bob Francis. He's a former vice chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board and oversaw a number of airline crash investigations.
Welcome, gentlemen.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
BOB FRANCIS, FORMER VICE CHAIRMAN, NTSB: Morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: Bob, I want to start with you. Unnamed U.S. sources told "The Wall Street Journal" that Rolls Royce, which makes the plane's engines, picked up pulses of data from the plane's engines after it disappeared from radar.
Can you make sense of that for us?
FRANCIS: Well, I think that's entirely possible. You know, its engine monitoring and monitoring the performance of the aircraft and it's a known -- it's a known quality and quantity. The interesting thing is that the story comes out so much later than, you know, here we are four or five days later. What was going on in the meantime?
COSTELLO: What was going on in the meantime? Nothing because I've often wondered. I know NTSB investigators are in Malaysia helping with the investigation, as are FAA investigators. But how much input do you think they really have?
FRANCIS: Well, it's -- I would hope they have a lot because there's certainly nobody more competent to do this kind of thing. On the other hand, from what one hears, there's a lot of politics going on out there. And the Malaysians are at least, for the moment, in charge of the investigation. And so you go and do what they tell you to do.
COSTELLO: So, Richard, what are you hearing about the level of involvement of American investigators? QUEST: Right. And -- well, we know for a fact that the Malaysians -- because they said yesterday, are asking for the expertise in looking at radar tracks and interpreting the data from the Americans and others, from the NTSB and the FAA. So my guess is that the NTSB and the FAA have their shirt sleeves rolled up and are absolutely in the thick of it because they are the ones who are absolutely the most qualified to look at this data and to actually interpret it and assist the Malaysian authorities who are normally in charge of the investigation.
On this Rolls Royce question, whether the engines continued to send telemetry and data via the ACAR system, Bob is right. It is possible that they could have done except that -- if the plane had kept flying but we've heard from the -- we just heard from the Malaysian Transport minister that they did not receive any information. So this -- I mean, put it as blunt as I can, Carol.
The "Wall Street Journal" quoting unnamed sources at Rolls Royce in Britain says that they continue to receive data. The Malaysians say they did not. So it seems that the ACAR system, this is the automatic reporting system which the plane transmits morning, noon and night while it's in flight, stopped at the same time as everything else did at 0127.
COSTELLO: So are you saying bluntly that the "Wall Street Journal" report is wrong?
QUEST: I'm not saying it. The Malaysian Department -- the Ministry of Transportation is saying it. You just heard it. You can play the sound bite again.
COSTELLO: We just heard it.
QUEST: Right.
COSTELLO: But I'm just saying that the investigation -- has been chaotic and you really don't know what to believe.
QUEST: Exactly. That's exactly the situation we are in at the moment. It is actually worrisome that at this point, Carol, at this point, we are -- we're basically back at square one.
I heard your introduction at the beginning of the program asking, are we back at square one? And the answer is, yes, which is why the involvement of the NTSB and the FAA is so important because Bob is absolutely right. There is no one better anywhere in the world at interpreting this data of what they are getting.
And the data is so incomplete and it's so partial, and it's so random from what we understand that this is crucially significant that the NTSB is there.
COSTELLO: OK. Well, let's talk to Bob as an NTSB investigator.
Bob, you mentioned that politics is involved. And of course that always makes things a lot more complicated. If you were on the scene, what would be different about the information coming out of Malaysia?
FRANCIS: If we were in charge of the investigation?
COSTELLO: Mm-hmm.
FRANCIS: I guess that we would have an authority there who is competent to deal with everything that's going on and wouldn't have any ax to grind. I mean, the NTSB is a technical agency. The U.S. government or the U.S. itself doesn't have any interest in this other than finding out what happened.
I just find the Andy Pastor article remarkable. And it's one of a series of remarkable things that we continue to come across in this investigation.
COSTELLO: Let's go back to that. You're talking about the "Wall Street Journal" report. You find it remarkable, why?
FRANCIS: Well, Andy Pastor is a very reputable journalist who knows this stuff in aviation as much as anyone. And to have -- for him to have created this article out of whole cloth, for me stretches --
COSTELLO: Credulity.
FRANCIS: Credulity, yes. So I -- you don't know where to go. I mean, I would go with what Andy said because I have great faith in him. And he doesn't have any political ax to grind as do the Malaysians.
COSTELLO: So a question, if the "Wall Street Journal" report is credible and the plane flew on for four hours undetected, that means someone probably commandeered the plane, right?
FRANCIS: Someone commandeer it? You know, or the pilots decided to do what happened. You know, you don't know necessarily what it was. But certainly somehow inside the airplane, a decision was made either as a result of force or as a result of volition to fly on.
COSTELLO: Richard, you wanted to say something?
QUEST: Yes, I do. I really want to pick up on what Bob's just said because Bob is enormously experienced in these matters. And if what Bob is saying is right and the "Wall Street Journal" article is correct, then this investigation is in very deep trouble indeed because if we are in a situation where the head of the investigating ministry is basically saying it's untrue and it transpires to be accurate, and the man closest to the story, the man closest to the investigation is so wrong on this fundamental fact of whether the engines continued, and whether there has been information, then this investigation is well and truly in deep trouble.
COSTELLO: Well, I know CNN is digging for its own information on that angle of the story.
Richard Quest, Bob Francis, many thanks to both of you.
FRANCIS: You're welcome.
COSTELLO: Also this morning, Malaysia knocking down another possible lead. These Chinese satellite image that appeared to show some kind of debris in the sea. Well, Malaysia now says China released the images, quote, "by mistake" and search crews have found no sign of Flight 370.
David McKenzie is in Beijing with that side of the story.
Hi, David.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol -- hi, Carol. Well, these were really a strong lead yesterday. These images of three objects in the ocean around the Gulf of Thailand which a Chinese official state organ said where potentially the crash site. They scrambled the Vietnamese jets -- Vietnamese search planes to the area. They said they found nothing and then the Malaysian authorities said that this was all a mistake.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUSSEIN: When the Chinese satellite imagery, a Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency surveillance plane was dispatched this morning to investigate potential debris shown on Chinese satellite images. We deployed our assets but found nothing.
We have contacted the Chinese embassy who notified us this afternoon that the images were released by mistake and did not show any debris from MH-370.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: Well, it's obviously a very serious allegation there from the Malaysians saying that the Chinese effectively don't have their house in order and that this agency released these images without coordination from Beijing.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs earlier today told CNN that they weren't aware of the photographs. And we contacted Chinese officials who aren't commenting. It does speak to the potential chaos of this investigation and also finger-pointing certainly from Malaysia to China about this indeed which was a very strong one, one has to say, yesterday -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And lends further credibility on what Mr. Francis just told us moments ago.
David McKenzie, reporting live from Beijing.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, searchers turn to high-tech tools to find Flight 370.
Rene Marsh has that angle of the story.
Good morning.
RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
The questions remain, where is Flight 370? And why can't search crews find it? Well, coming up, we take a closer look at how they are going about this search and the tools they are using.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Dozens of ships and planes have joined the search for the Malaysian airliner now missing for six days. While eyes scan the waters, teams are also using high-tech tools to cover an area of nearly 36,000 nautical square miles. It's the size of Portugal now.
CNN's Rene Marsh is in Washington with more.
Good morning.
RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Yes, a lot to cover this morning.
Malaysian authorities have handed over both radar data and other information to the NTSB and FAA. And the agencies have seen the data. Based on that, they agree it was reasonable to extend this search area to the west of the peninsula. But the main focus is still the South China Sea.
And as the search continues for the sixth day, this morning we take a closer look at exactly how they are doing it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARSH (voice-over): From the sea, air, land and even space, search teams are using everything at their disposal to find Malaysian Airlines Flight 370. The first question figuring out where radar last picked up the plane.
TOM HAUETER, FORMER DIRECTOR, NTSB OFFICE OF AVIATION SAFETY: It's a big task because you have multiple radar sites and possibly multiple different countries. So they're not all in the same format.
MARSH: Some of the top radar experts in the world are helping analyze every possible blip. But searching can also be low tech like looking out a window for debris.
PROF. JOHN HANSMAN, AERONAUTICS & ASTRONATICS, MIT: Most of the search is being done either by air, airplanes flying over it because they can cover the largest area.
MARSH: The U.S. military is even searching in the dark.
WILLIAM MARKS, PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICER: We're looking at tonight actually flying night mission which can use its radar infrared and even night vision goggles there. MARSH: And high above, it gets even more high tech. Devices that look for nuclear explosions and missile launches were checked to see if the plane blew up. And satellites were focused on the area.
NASA says it's using weather satellites to look for wreckage, along with a camera on the International Space Station.
Besides these photos released from the Chinese government, the Pentagon is checking its satellites. But below the waves, the plane itself could be calling if anyone is close enough and listening.
HANSMAN: There is the acoustic pinger which is on the flight data recorder. But that requires that you have a -- basically a microphone that will work in the water. Most ships don't have the right equipment, so you have to get ships to the area that have the right equipment to start looking for it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARSH: So the longer it takes for them to find the plane, the harder this search becomes. Currents and winds plays into this in a big way. So if the plane is in the water, currents are moving it X many miles per hour, multiply that by 24 hours and multiply that again by six days and you have a search area that has expanded hundreds of miles every day that goes by, Carol.
COSTELLO: Rene Marsh, reporting live from Washington.
It's not just official government teams looking for that plane. Millions of you are going online to try to spot the crash site. Digital Globe, a U.S.-based Earth imaging firm activated its crowd sourcing platform and asked for your help to search through satellite image.
As it turns out, the entire world wants to help. The firm estimates some 2 million people have logged on and started looking through those images. The response so overwhelming the site has crashed multiple times.
Brett Larson, CNN technology analyst and editor of Tech Bites, joins me now.
So, 2 million people. That's amazing.
BRETT LARSON, CNN TECHNOLOGY ANALYST: Yes, the site is down. I just tried loading it up here on my smartphone to take a peek at it again before we went on. And the site has now crashed because so many people are going on.
It's kind of -- it's an amazing concept. They've got these five satellites. They are in the sky. They've pointed their cameras down at the ocean where we're searching and have been searching for these -- for parts, or debris, or something, any answers.
And they've turned over what they have found to the public and you can go on and you can look at the pictures. You can look at the images and you don't necessarily get to say, oh, I think I found X, Y or Z. You tag a picture that looks interesting or looks like there might be something there and then they'll go back and look at that data, look at where there were heavy amounts of tagged data and try and figure out what it is.
COSTELLO: So, 2 million people have logged on and are looking for this plane. So how many people does Digital Globe have who were going through all this data that's coming in?
LARSON: They've got their entire staff there out in Colorado will be taking in all of the feedback that they are getting from these 2 million users across the globe right now looking at all of this information that's coming in through their satellites.
COSTELLO: So they are rejecting certain satellite images. Can you tell me about that?
LARSON: Well, now, they're going to -- they are possibly looking at images where they are going to reject or going to be things that aren't clear, where maybe there's too much you can see on the screen right now where there's a lot of clouds in the way, or there's an obstruction of some kind that you can't get a clear image down to the sea.
And they are also, as I mentioned, you know, they are using an algorithm where when you tag the photo, it makes the photo more popular on their end. So when their computers, they'll see, oh, hey, this one image has been tagged, we'll say, 100,000 times, so, clearly, there's something here that we need to take a better look at.
And they may even take a better look at it and then send the satellite around to get more photos, more high resolution photos to give them a better idea of what they are seeing.
COSTELLO: So a lot of good-hearted people are going to this site to help. Is it worth their time?
LARSON: I definitely think it's worth the time. If you want to pass a little time if you just want to take a look at what's going on and get this really amazing view and participate in this search for this plane that's been missing now for over a week almost.
COSTELLO: Yes. Brett Larson, many thanks.
LARSON: Thanks, Carol.
COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM: Ukraine struggling to keep its Crimean region from slipping permanently into Russia's grab. A secession vote is scheduled for Sunday, but is it already too late? I'll ask a senator who will be heading to Ukraine this weekend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Welcome back to our coverage of that missing Malaysian airliner in just a minute. But, first, tension is mounting on Ukraine's Crimean peninsula. Russian state-run media reports that Crimean authorities have seized oil and gas fields and offshore Ukrainian assets. This as officials prepare for Sunday's referendum. Voters in Crimea are poised to decide whether the region will unite with Russia or remain part of Ukraine.
Senator John McCain told CNN he thinks Crimea is already in Russia's grip for good. McCain is leading a group of senators on a trip to Ukraine this weekend.
One of those senators, Chris Murphy of Connecticut, joins me now from Washington.
Good morning, sir.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning.
COSTELLO: What are you guys hoping to accomplish by going to Ukraine?
MURPHY: Well, I think the first thing we hope to accomplish is show the new Ukrainian government they have strong U.S. support in conjunction with our allies. The fact is that no matter what happens ultimately to Crimea, that's only about 5 percent of the country. If we can solidify the rest of Ukraine on a pathway to joining with the European Union, that is a serious blow to Russia.
And so, they need right now some pretty significant economic support. We passed a bill out of the foreign relations committee that would deliver the chunk of that from the United States. We're hoping to go to talk about what else we can do to not only react to the Russian incursion on Crimea, but also to support and help prop up this new government in Kiev.
COSTELLO: Do you think the vote that's supposed to take place will be fair?
MURPHY: It's a total sham of a vote. I mean, you know, it's ridiculous to think that you can have a free and fair vote at a time when your country is being occupied, when guns are literally being held to the heads of voters. And Russian propaganda is flooding the airwaves. I mean, Ukrainian television has been shut down and replaced with Russian government-led propaganda television.
So, the idea that this is a referendum that anyone should pay attention to is absolutely ridiculous. Prime Minister Yatsenyuk, the new prime minister of Ukraine, is here and he will have a strong message from the United States from the top on down that no one in the international community should recognize this absolute fraud of a referendum.
COSTELLO: OK. So we'll assume the referendum is going to go Russia's way, right? President Obama had promised --
MURPHY: Yes. I think that's pretty good bet. COSTELLO: I think that's a pretty good bet. So, President Obama has promised consequences if Russia doesn't pull out of Crimea. A lot of people wonder if that threat is real. Is there really anything the U.S. can do?
MURPHY: Well, there's absolutely steps that the United States, in conjunction, with Europe can take. But let's be honest. I mean, Putin marched on Crimea because he doesn't believe that the United States and Europe are going to stand together to exact consequences on the Russian economy.
I think we're going to prove him wrong. I think we with Europe have the ability to freeze bank assets, to take sanctions on the big petro chemical companies in Russia and essentially bring that economy to its knees over a period of time, which can make him rethink his decision in Crimea. He's had a history in other types of incursions like this, like in Georgia in 2008, marching in and then after the international pressure was ratcheted up, marching back in part.
I think that's our hope right now, is that these economic consequences can, maybe not in the next several weeks but over the course of the next several months make him change his mind.
COSTELLO: Well, isn't the question remains, will Europe go along with these sanctions?
MURPHY: I think it's an open question. And, you know, Europeans have been concerned about the quality of the transatlantic relationship over the past several months, especially with these allegations of spying on European governments.
Well, here's their chance to prove that this is still relationship and alliance worth investing. I get it that if the Germans were to cut off gas imports from Russia, that would hurt the German economy.
Ultimately, you don't stop Putin now, you have to ask who is next. It was ridiculous to think that Russia would march on Ukraine five years ago. Five years from now, we have no idea who may be in his sights in Europe.
COSTELLO: Well, hopefully you'll check back with us when you get back from the Ukraine.
Senator Christopher Murphy, thank you so much for joining me.
MURPHY: Thanks for having me.
COSTELLO: An Islamic jihad leader says a cease-fire has been declared after two days of rocket fire from Gaza and airstrikes by Israeli forces. Four Palestinian residents were critically injured when the Israeli military launched air strikes on what it called terrorist sites in the Gaza strip. Israel says it was responding to rocket attacks on southern Israel.
Israeli Defense Forces say two rockets hit Israel today, and roughly 65 have struck since yesterday, including five in populated area.
