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The Mystery of Flight 370 -- Did Engine Ping Satellites Over Indian Ocean?

Aired March 13, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news here on CNN, it is coming from our reporters in Washington, Barbara Starr and Jim Sciutto.

There are reports that there were pings after this plane -- we thought that we had last heard from the airplane. Plus, the plane may have flown four to five hours to the Indian Ocean, or across the Indian Ocean, and also, the White House is telling us that the search field has been expanded.

Barbara Starr is our Pentagon correspondent. She's in Washington. Jim Sciutto is our national security correspondent. He is in Washington, as well.

And Mary Schiavo is a former inspector general for the department of transportation. She will join us in a moment. First to Barbara Starr, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Don, a senior U.S. official is now telling us that the U.S. has been told by the Malaysians there were pings, if you will, electronic information sent from what they believe is the airliner's engines to satellites overhead.

This is a data transmission that usually happens to send information back about the engines while an aircraft is in flight, safety and data information about how the engines are operating.

The Malaysians now believe that they have several pings, if you will, from this system, and they calculate that the plane flew -- partially based on this, that the plane flew four to five hours out over the Indian Ocean to the west of Malaysia.

So, this now has led the United States to say, OK, we will expand the search area with you. A U.S. Navy ship, the USS Kidd, a destroyer, that had been searching near Malaysia, near Kuala Lumpur, closer to an eastern position, will transit through the Strait of Malacca and go out into the Indian Ocean and begin to conduct a search out there, we are told.

Big caution in all of this, this is the best information everybody has at this point. It's been a confusing situation. Even a senior U.S. Officials says be careful, none of this is a hundred percent yet.

They're going to go look at the Indian Ocean, see what they find, but the bottom line is no one yet knows where this plane is. Don?

LEMON: Jim Sciutto, our chief national security correspondent, you said proceed with caution, as well.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No question. I will echo that point for sure, but this is a valuable piece of the puzzle, and I'm told it's combined with other pieces of the puzzle that's leading them to turn some of their attention to the Indian Ocean.

You have the engine data. You have the radar from the Malaysian air force that we've been reporting on the last couple of days that showed that path, that turn, and then that long flight to heading in a southwesterly direction out towards the Indian Ocean.

Plus, they also have knowledge of how much fuel was in the tanks of that plane when it took off and when it made that turn and that gives them a sense of how far it could fly at level-flight, and it gives them a sense of that range that we're seeing on that map there now as to how far it could be.

The trouble is it could fly for a long period of time. That's an issue here.

I also know that there has been some frustration with the sharing of information, particularly the raw data from the Malaysian side, sharing with other countries involved with the search, and particularly countries like the U.S. that have the NTSB and have others resources to analyze the data and make the best conclusions.

But now they're getting that data in better form which allows them to at least have confidence this is a worthwhile line of inquiry, again, with that caveat that it's still not a hundred percent, as Barbara said.

One final thing and we've talked about this ever since this flight disappeared, is terrorism an issue here? I'm told that even with this new information that the position of the U.S. intelligence community remains the same and that is that they have found no indication of terrorism yet, but they haven't ruled it out either, and that is where they stand on that.

But this certainly takes them in a different direction as to where they are going to search, at least one of the areas they're going to be searching now.

LEMON: All right, stand by for both of you, Barbara and Jim.

I want to bring in now the inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo, and she has been digesting this information. I want to get her take on it.

Mary?

MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (via telephone): Yes, well, I think this goes more not with the terrorism theory, but the theory that the plane was, whether the people on board were alive or not, was limping along after some sort of an event, because that's what this plane can do.

And while everyone is very skeptical about the information since it is all that they have, clearly someone is putting some stock in it, and you'd have to, because it's a lead.

We don't have many leads in any investigation. Air crash or otherwise, you follow all of your leads until, hopefully, you can get a logical conclusion.

LEMON: Barbara Starr, the National Transportation Safety Board helping out, what assets are the U.S. sending to this region?

STARR: They're going to start by moving this one destroyer, the USS Kidd, to have a look.

In these kinds of wide-area searches over hundreds of miles of ocean, sometimes the closer you are to the water, the better, experts say, so you're going to have a surface ship that has helicopters.

There are surveillance aircraft that the U.S. and other nations have. The Indians themselves are weighing in. They're going to try and send some assets to all of this.

But what about those satellites flying overhead? How much use could those be? They -- the commercial satellite imagery may hold some clues and there are U.S. government imagery experts locking at that right now.

You're going to be locking at hundreds of square miles of ocean, looking for some anomaly. What doesn't look like a wave in the ocean? What tiny little bit might look like a piece of debris possibly from an airplane?

The ocean has a lot of junk in it, a lot of trash, so they're going to have to be very careful and look at everything.

But -- but -- it may be those ships on the water and the airplanes flying close to the water that may have the best chance of spotting something, Don.

LEMON: Jim Sciutto, given all of the information that we have gotten from the Malaysians, some of it accurate, a lot of it's not, how much confidence should we have in this information that they are giving us now?

SCIUTTO: Remember the information we are getting now is from U.S. officials, and remember, it was earlier today Malaysia time when we had the head of the Malaysia investigation speaking to reporters, denying this report, saying it was inaccurate, and of course, that statement proven false.

You've had those kinds of contradictory statements coming out of the Malaysian government. You'll remember when we first got -- when we first heard of this radar data, CNN heard it from a senior military source.

And then later you had officials in the prime minister's office saying, no, that's not true. Of course, it's turned out to be true, as well.

You've had a lot of mixed signals, and it's not just frustrating us. More importantly, it's frustrating the investigators in the many countries who want to contribute to this investigation.

And just one point as a matter of background, because out viewers may wonder why in God's name would the Malaysians not want to share this information, all that they know, this is a hotly contested plot of water down here.

You have a lot of countries competing with territorial disputes over island chains in the South China Sea, including China, including Malaysia, Vietnam, all those countries you can see on the map there.

To be wide open about all of their military capabilities, their radar capabilities, their satellite capabilities, et cetera, their ability to identify planes, this kind of thing, that is revealing sensitive information, and you can understand with that background why perhaps they couldn't be forthcoming.

Of course, the frustration is that that may have hampered what could have -- certainly the search for this plane, and we don't know what condition it would have been if indeed it hit the water, but the possibility of a rescue, as well.

LEMON: Stand by both of you, live to where this plane took off, Kuala Lumpur, next.

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LEMON: Our correspondent Andrew Stevens has been tracking this story for us from Kuala Lumpur, and there he is, standing by now.

Andrew, you have been digesting this information that we have been getting from our folks here in Washington. Any response from Malaysia?

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No response here. It's just gone 3:30 in the morning here. We have reached out to the Malaysian defense ministry that's leading the investigation here, and they do say they will get back to us.

But they seem -- apparently seem to be unaware at least at this stage of this new information coming to us from the U.N -- from the U.S., sorry.

But, I mean, it does just add another layer of confusion. So many of these leads have been proved and then disproved and then proved again.

Let me give you an example, put this into context. Twenty-four hours ago here in Kuala Lumpur, the front page lead on "The Wall Street Journal" was the plane had indeed flown on for several hours, so it's engines were still on, in working order. That was absolutely and categorically knocked down by the defense minster in a press conference a few hours later. This was the quote. "I'd like to refer to the news report suggesting the aircraft may have continued flying for some time after last contact. As Malaysian Airlines will confirm shortly, these reports are inaccurate."

They go on to say that they have been speaking -- they specifically spoke to Rolls-Royce and Boeing. They're both on the ground here in K.L. They have both been here for several days now as part of this investigation.

Rolls was approached. It was shown this story. They denied that, as well. They said, quote, "Those reports are inaccurate." That's coming from Rolls-Royce, according to the defense ministry.

So, that's been knocked down. And, a few hours later, the same information is popping up again with you on the U.S., that information Barbara's getting there.

So, it's very, very difficult to get a handle on. And this is part of a pattern. You will remember that there was information that the plane may have turned around and gone across the Malacca Straits -- the country into the Malacca Straits on the west.

That was initially reported. Then it was knocked down by the government. And then it was stood up again by the government.

So, it's so difficult to get any sort of accurate read on this at the moment, so obviously frustrating for everyone.

I just should add that the satellite -- we were talking about those satellite images. A lot of people were getting very, very positive this could be the break everyone was looking for, those satellite images.

They went nowhere. The Chinese embassy actually spoke to the Malaysian government to say that they shouldn't have been released, and they didn't show any debris from MH-370.

So, all very, very confusing at the moment. Like I said, we're still waiting for an update from the Malaysian government about this latest news.

If it's true, the Indian Ocean is vast, and that means this search could go from days to weeks to possibly months.

LEMON: OK, I'm glad you said that, because I want to tell our viewers why that's important.

Because at the White House briefing just a short time ago, the White House press secretary, Jay Carney, said that they were possibly expanding the search for this plane into the Indian Ocean, plus some new information from our correspondents in Washington, including Barbara Starr and Jim Sciutto, saying that the flight may have flown on four to five hours over the Indian Ocean, and there were pings picked up hours after the plane had vanished, long after the plane had vanished.

That is our correspondent Andrew Stevens in Malaysia. We will get back to him. We'll also get back to our Barbara Starr and our Jim Sciutto, as well as other analysis on the breaking news here on CNN.

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LEMON: The new information, there's a plane -- Flight 370 was transmitting information after it had vanished and also that it may have flown four to five hours longer over the Indian Ocean, and also from the White House, the search area has expanded to the Indian Ocean.

I want to bring in now our chief national correspondent Jim Sciutto in Washington. This is part of his reporting as well as our Barbara Starr.

But, Jim, I want to play something that the White House spokesman, Jay Carney, said earlier. Let's listen and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are a number of possible scenarios that are being investigated as to what happened to the flight, and we are not in a position at this time to make conclusions about what happened, unfortunately.

But we're actively participating in a search and, again, we're -- we, in an investigation led by the Malaysian government, an investigation that involves many nations with many assets, are following leads where we find them.

And it's my understanding that, based on some new information that's not necessarily conclusive, but new information, an additional search area may be opened in the Indian Ocean and we're consulting with international partners about the appropriate assets to deploy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Jim Sciutto, I'm sure you heard that. I picked up on "not necessarily conclusive." What do you make of that?

SCIUTTO: Well, I think the best way to look at this, this is an investigation like any other. There are clues and some of those clues are going to pan out and some of them are not.

Yesterday we had those satellite images which looked very interesting, but that clue seemed on closer examination not to pan out.

Here, you have more than one clue that places this plane in the direction of the Indian Ocean, the newest one today, this engine data, the idea that these engines were generating data for as long as four to five hours after it lost transponder contact.

That combined with some other clues, including this radar track that we've been exploring and talking about for several days now, that the Malaysian airport tracked a plane, not necessarily this one but could very well have been it, down in that same direction.

One more clue, how much fuel was in those tanks when the plane took that left turn that you're seeing now in this animation here? And that gives a sense of range.

So, when they combine those clues, it gives them a reason to look, to extend their search area over to the west there.

As Jay Carney said, not conclusive, the officials I talked to say not conclusive, but it's described to me as a worthwhile line of inquiry, among others, but one that they are looking into more closely now.

LEMON: When you look -- you said it gives them an idea of a direction, but when you say the Indian Ocean, which is a vast ocean with currents turning to and fro and here and there, it gives them an idea, but it also opens up the possibilities, a lot -- a much bigger search area, Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. Bigger, that plane could have taken a turn during that path and that, of course, expands the search area. And the water is also deeper.

Remember -- you know that water that we were looking at initially between Malaysia and Vietnam, one advantage there, it's not as deep. I think I remember the figure is something like 50, 60, 70 meters.

You get out into that Indian Ocean there, as you look at the map, much deeper. And, remember, with the Air France flight, you remember how long it took to find the fuselage.

They found some wreckage after five days on that flight that crashed in the middle of the Atlantic. It took them two years to find the actual fuselage of that plane.

But on that plane, they had some data to indicate where in the Atlantic Ocean it went down. Yet, they were still looking on the bottom of the ocean for two years with submersibles and submarines, you name it, before they found it.

So, imagine if you're looking on the bottom of a deep ocean for, you know, without a real indication as to where it went down yet, that's where we stand now, that really makes it possible it's a long time before this is found.

LEMON: Well, Jim Sciutto, stand by. Don't go anywhere. We're going to need you here, next, because we're going to talk about terrorism.

Could terrorism have played a role in the disappearance of Malaysian Air Flight 370? We're going to take a closer look at that possibility, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're back now with our breaking news, more questions than answers about that missing Malaysian plane. The White House says the search for the Malaysian Airline Flight 370 may expand to the Indian Ocean.

For passengers' families, every passing second is agonizing. They wait and they wait for any word on their loved ones.

I want to bring in now security expert and former Secret Service agent Evy Poumpouras.

Is a terrorist act more or less likely, given the new information that we've gotten about tracking information and after the plane had vanished? Does this --

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY AND THREAT ASSESSMENT EXPERT: I think it's more likely.

LEMON: You think it is?

POUMPOURAS: Because now we know that it's stable. It's been flying for some time. The transponders were turned off, either intentionally or through mechanical error, but that they flew for a duration of time.

I think that leads us more, gives us another red flag to say, hey, you know what, we need to probe further and see that terrorism is, in fact, not the issue.

LEMON: You were a former air marshal, were you?

POUMPOURAS: I was former Secret Service, so when we would fly, we would fly with arms, constantly, so we would coordinate a lot with the U.S. marshals, which we have air marshals now since 9/11 who fly on our aircraft here in the U.S.

LEMON: But in that part of the world, there are no air marshals on the airplanes?

POUMPOURAS: Not U.S. air marshals but a lot of countries put their own people, whether law enforcement or people, undercover or in an other capacity if you have certain volatile airlines.

LEMON: Did they do it in this particular area?

POUMPOURAS: This is something very different than what they are used to dealing with.

LEMON: Lots of people have criticized the Malaysian officials for the way they have handled the investigation. Are you one of those critics?

POUMPOURAS: I'm not critical of it. They are overwhelmed. They don't know what they are doing. They've never handled anything like this before.

They are trying to locate the plane and they are trying to coordinate all of these countries coming in and trying to assist you and you've got all of these chiefs saying do it this way, do it that way.

It's uncoordinated and it's showing the information. One minute it's this story, and the next it's this. LEMON: Who do you think was the last person to fly this plane? Was it autopilot? Pilot? What do you think?

POUMPOURAS: It's difficult. I don't think it's autopilot. I do feel that there's something nefarious going on. Again, it's more of that criminal investigator sense feeling.

LEMON: Hijacking? Pilot suicide? I hate to ask those questions but they must be asked.

POUMPOURAS: It's not this. It's not that. We're still at the point six days later, it could be anything and that's the frustrating thing.

I think through the process of elimination we should be checking things off. We know it's not this. We know it's not that. Unfortunately, we're not there yet.

LEMON: What is this -- what should we learn from this? I don't know if there's anything to be had -- to be made of this yet because we still don't know.

POUMPOURAS: I think the one key thing that's going to come out after this, foreign countries, other countries are going to lift up their standards to what we have here with the way we deal with security on our flights.

We were vulnerable. Now we see it's not just here. I think you're going to see everybody stepping up now because the Malaysians have the spotlight on them.

LEMON: I think people are surprised that there is not more security on foreign planes and the satellite, because one official said they waved off the particular security on that plane.

I think people are going to be surprised by that, and maybe a bit reticent about flying overseas.

POUMPOURAS: Depending on where we were in the world, it was different.

LEMON: Evy Poumpouras, thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us here on CNN.

And thank you for joining us the past two hours with the new information that we have had.

Now, my colleague in Washington, Jake Tapper, picks up our coverage from here.