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Investigators Examine Pilot's Flight Simulation; Search for Plane Spans Water and Land; Crimeans Vote to Join Russia; U.S. Will Not Recognize Crimea Vote Results
Aired March 16, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York and we're tracking two enormous stories the world is watching today.
Cheers and tears erupted after a controversial vote to return part of Ukraine's fragile nation to Russia. We have early results from the referendum in Ukraine's Crimea region. Crimea's leader says Crimea is going home to Russia. World leaders say not so fast. President Obama and Russia's President Putin spoke today on the phone about the tense situation. Sanctions against Russia could start as early as tomorrow.
Plus, we are also tracking dramatic new twists in the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Right now 25 nations are searching for the missing plane and coming up short. The airliner disappeared now ten days ago, triggering the aviation mystery that's baffled the world.
Here are the new developments as we know them today. Pakistan says no trace of the missing plane ever showed up on its radar systems. And Pakistan says the plane would have been treated as a threat if it did show up.
Right now police are examining a flight simulator taken from the pilot's home and new scrutiny is bearing down on both the pilot and his co-pilot.
Plus, the search for the missing airliner is switching gears. You'll hear why some believe the plane may have landed before its last satellite contact. We are bringing in all our experts to track the unsolved mystery of Malaysian Flight 370.
But first, with such a huge search area, Malaysian authorities are asking the question where to begin. And we have CNN's Andrew Stevens live now in Kuala Lumpur, the capital of Malaysia. Andrew, in terms of the investigation first before we get to the search, we know they're focusing on the cockpit, we know they've gathered more evidence from the pilots. Are they learning any new details about what they found from their homes, the simulator, et cetera all the things they're looking at?
ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At this hour, Jim, no, nothing from the Malaysian police themselves to say what they have learned from the simulator which has now they've been in their possession for a little more than 24 hours but there have been some reports. Reuters is reporting, for example, that there was a program on that simulator which told you and taught you how to fly in all sorts of different weather conditions. Most experts would tell you though, but that's not unusual to have a program like that on a flight simulator.
What we can say is that the captain was a very, very avid flier and avid aviation man -- full stop. Not surprising, many people tell me, for him to have equipment like that in his home. He was also an examiner -- so a very senior pilot as well.
It's not just that the captain is being -- his home being searched either -- the co-pilot as well. His search -- his home has been searched. Evidence has been taken. And when I say evidence, I'm really talking about bags full of unidentified documents and objects. So we don't know what was taken from that house.
He though, early in the crisis it was revealed that he had invited two young women into the cockpit on a flight back from Phuket to Kuala Lumpur. So that's obviously is raising eyebrows; that one will be checked out very closely -- Jim.
But it is a matter of elimination, this is -- this is groundwork, if you like. This is sensible investigation where you go through everybody who was on that flight and you eliminate them one by one. It's going to take a while because there were 15 nationalities on that flight. So they're going to have to get help in background checks from many of those overseas, passengers on that flight.
SCIUTTO: No question. And just to remind our viewers. They're not suspects. They are -- these are leads that investigators are following. They're not suspects yet. I wanted to ask you about a story that came out today Andrew -- this word that the pilot he was very politically active in Malaysia sometimes in public. Is that a line of investigation that they're looking into here?
STEVENS: It would be a line of investigation they're looking into because they're looking at all -- any evidence. They need the 360 degree view of the pilot's life -- his friends, his contacts, what he did socially, what he did privately -- everything.
Now, this story has surfaced in recent days that seems to be growing somewhat out of proportion, Jim, he is a supporter of Anwr Ibrahim who is the main voice of opposition in Malaysia and has been now for several years. Anwr Ibrahim himself is in no way radical. Many people would say that he was actually a speaker for more and more democratic process in Malaysia the -- that the ruling party has been in power for decades in Malaysia.
Anwr Ibrahim was seen as a -- as a troublesome individual for the ruling party. In fact, he was jailed on charges of sodomy just before elections several years ago which took him off the political scene. And he widely described that and many people agree with him, that that was straight politics, they got him out of the way because he was proving to be a problem for the ruling party. But this country is -- it is political like every country. He is seen as a -- as a relevant and well regarded voice of opposition here. Nothing more. SCIUTTO: Well good to hear that, because there are so many stories circulating here and lots of speculations. So it's good to distinguish the ones that have substance from the ones that do not. Thanks very much to our Andrew Stevens in Kuala Lumpur.
There are now 25 countries including the U.S. scouring the area for any sign of Flight 370. Their search includes trying to detect pings from the flight data recorders. To discuss, I'm joined by Dick Schofield he is the vice president of business development at Duquesne, which makes one of the components that emits signals in those flight data recorder -- I should call him Chuck; and Tom Fuentes as well, CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director and Laura Parker, a writer and editor at NationalGeographic.com.
Chuck if I can start with you here, when these planes and the ships that are searching through the Indian Ocean some of them very deep parts of the Indian Ocean -- 10,000 or 20,000 feet deep -- how close do they have to get to that plane assuming it's on the bottom of the ocean which is only one possibility to pick up a signal from it?
CHUCK SCHOFIELD, V.P., DUQUESNE DEVELOPMENT, DULANE: Well, there are several factors that matter. Sea state is obviously a factor. That can consist of algae in the water, traffic, et cetera. But the average distance which the pinger can be located is roughly two nautical miles.
SCIUTTO: And that's two nautical miles in any direction? Is that right -- even two nautical miles straight down into the ocean?
SCHOFIELD: That's right.
SCIUTTO: Ok and can you hear pings if it's on land as well so that's a possibility assuming it's -- say plane is lost in the mountains or even hidden somewhere on land?
SCHOFIELD: Actually, the device that we manufacture is -- it only pings when it has come into contact with water. When the aircraft is on land, it actually is a different device on the aircraft that'll help them to locate the -- their wreckage.
SCIUTTO: That's a very interesting point. I'm glad you made that. We didn't know that. And that would make it more difficult if the plane is on land and there are some who believe that's true.
Laura if I could ask you a question. You know how long, before the most valuable information and data on the aircraft is lost? Does it degrade? Is there a time limit to when they have to find this plane to discover all they would need to know, to know what brought it down assuming that's what happened to it.
LAURA PARKER, NATIONALGEOGRAPHIC.COM: I don't know that we can say that right yet. The Air France jet that seems to be most comparable to this situation, the black boxes were not recovered for more than two years. And when they finally brought them back up from the ocean floor, they were able to get to the bottom of that accident. So I think there's quite a bit of time here and the most important thing is to find the plane. They really need to find this plane if they want to determine what happened. All the speculation here is -- makes interesting stories but the plane is going to have to tell us what really happened.
SCIUTTO: No question. Tom, if we could ask you, because there's been a lot of finger pointing which certainly isn't productive either between countries. Frustration from China directed at Malaysia even some at the U.S. But now you have Malaysia convening these 25 nations together to help search, but also to gather their satellite data.
Do you see that that relationship, that cooperation is improving over time in these ten days since the plane disappeared?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Jim, I think it should improve over time just because they will get used to working together on this issue. And sometimes that just takes time for the different countries to understand each other's capabilities, technical capabilities as well. So that may take, you know, a little bit of time and improve as time goes on.
On the other hand, from the political standpoint, the tensions rise when one country thinks another country might have something that it's withholding for reasons of national security or whatever justification there may be. So you'll have accusations like that.
And I think in a case like this, especially you'll have some of the smaller countries thinking that the United States and China have the greatest technology in the world and why can't they find it? They should be able to. And maybe they're keeping it from us. And so there's, you know, possibly going to be suspicion on other people in the world that the U.S. and China could do more technologically and haven't for whatever reason.
SCIUTTO: Well, that exact point you made was made in fact in an Shin Wei (ph) editorial today, that's the Chinese state media saying that the U.S. should bring its -- calling the U.S. an intelligent superpower. But I wonder if -- because that's another sensitivity you bring up because a lot of the capabilities that could be used to track this plane, whether satellite or radar systems they are militarily sensitive. Is it your sense that countries would hold back for national security reasons some of their ability to see, track, et cetera because that would reveal too much to potential adversaries in the region Tom? What do you think?
FUENTES: I think it's a possibility, but you know these countries aren't exactly cold warriors, as far as that goes. I don't think that they would go so far in a case of this magnitude, you know, because they could -- they can divulge information that we believe we saw the plane or we didn't see it, even without giving up all the details of every radar installation.
And you would expect countries to have defensive radar on their islands at you know protecting their country. Apparently this aircraft went through even Malaysia's air defense radars and it didn't set off any alarms or -- or anything with the country that should have had the most reason to be looking for it.
SCIUTTO: All right, Tom, Laura and Chuck, I want you to stay with us. We're going to continue this discussion. You raise some interesting questions, so we're going to stay with it after this break.
But also ahead, a closer look at two possible routes the missing plane may have taken and just how vast an area searchers are facing now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: The desperate search for the missing Malaysia Flight 370 is getting more difficult with every passing day. The jet airliner vanished ten days ago now. Families of the 239 people on board are waiting in agony for any word on their loved ones.
We're going to bring back our panel now. We have Chuck, Tom Fuentes as well as Susan (SIC). Chuck, I want to begin with you, your company makes the component that emits that signal from the flight data recorders which those ships and planes are going to be searching for. I understand it's been tested down to 20,000 feet -- there are parts of the Indian Ocean that go deeper than that. Are there blind spots in the search in effect when you're talking about deep water?
SCHOFIELD: I really can't comment a lot on the blind spots necessarily, but it has been tested successfully to the 20,000 feet. So that's what it's certified to. But as far as the ocean floor, you really can't comment on that necessarily.
SCIUTTO: Ok. And you did mention earlier I want to remind our viewers that on land, that ping from the flight data recorders does not go off. It only goes off when it touches water.
Tom, I want in fact to bring you in here. Because one of the key revelations over the last 24 hours, was that that good night from the cockpit, the handoff when the jet was leaving Malaysian air space, radar space, going to Vietnam, that good night happened several minutes after the first data system, the ACAR System was turned off.
If you can just put in context for our viewers how important that detail is to the overall investigation and the focus of the investigation now as U.S. officials tell us on the pilots in the cockpit.
FUENTES: Well, Jim if the pilots or one of the two pilots had turned off that system in the cockpit, then certainly they would be aware of that. This plot would be underway from the time they deliberately shut the system off and therefore that last broadcast which was made to look totally routine, that they're leaving the air control area of Malaysia and moving on to the next one, however far it is, as they go over Vietnam, that would be the important aspect that it would be calculated on the part of the pilots.
If they in fact were the ones that took this airplane, you know, took their own airplane off course and away from where it was supposed to go, that might be significant. I think I would have some technical question -- is it possible for that system to go out without them even knowing it. I don't know. You know, I'm assuming that only they could do it. But I don't know that for a fact.
SCIUTTO: It's got to be something that investigators are leaving open as a possibility.
Laura Parker, I want to go to you now -- you're with National Geographic -- you know the parameters of the search very well on land and sea. A million miles as our Chad Myers has said -- an immense search area. What challenge does that present to the 11 countries now involved in the search?
PARKER: The search becomes a little complicated -- could become a little complicated with so many different nations involved and analyzing all of their data in trying to refine it. The satellite data has to be refined in order for them to narrow the search. If the politics of it get complicated, there is an outside organization that could step in and lead it. It has investigated accidents in politically sensitive occasions in the past and that would be the ICAO, which is the international aviation organization and an arm of the U.N.
SCIUTTO: Certainly you have geographical challenges, you have political challenges as well.
Thanks very much to Tom Fuentes, Laura Parker, Chuck Schofield.
There is much more coverage ahead of Malaysia Airline Flight 370.
But next, we turn to the other big story of the day -- historic referendum pits the Ukraine and the West against Russia. We'll take you live to Crimea for the results right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: We'll have much more coverage of the missing Malaysian Airline Flight 370 ahead.
But first we have breaking news out of the Ukraine. More than 95 percent of Ukrainians in Crimea say they no longer want to be part of Ukraine. Today's overwhelming vote to join the Russian Federation set off huge celebrations.
Crimea's prime minister appeared in Simferopol's Lenin Square to sing the Russian national anthem and to declare quote, "we are going home. Crimea is in Russia."
CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is in Crimea. Nick -- an incredible moment to witness there. The prime minister clearly sounding confident that this is just not a symbolic referendum, but that this is a done deal that Crimea is going to join Russia. Is that what you're hearing there?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think certainly it has been a done deal for a while. The sheer numbers you read out there, Jim, letting you know how, I think it's fair to say, one-sided this supposed electoral contest was. We simply didn't hear anything or see anything of the pro Ukrainian campaign here. They often I think are worried about expressing their opinions -- very little space on media here for them to get that point across. And even the ethnic that Tatar minority -- about 10 percent of the Crimean population boycotting the vote and actually worried now they say about the potential for conflict feeling insecure in the areas where they live here.
But the celebrations we saw on that square possibly 5,000 people, very well-organized, orchestrated. Massive fireworks display showing really I think the resources pumped in, it's fair to say, by Moscow to making this referendum get pushed through, with quite such speed.
But Jim now we have a pretty tight timetable. The de facto prime minister here, Sergei Aksyonov, saying he'll be sending a delegation to Moscow soon to get the practicalities of joining up with Russia underway. The only real off ramp potentially left as Western diplomats would like to put it is if Vladimir Putin decides not to embrace Crimea into Russia but that looks pretty unlikely, Jim.
SCIUTTO: You know, you're hearing from American officials and European officials constantly these warnings about a price to pay. There will be a cost for Russia and we hear of sanctions beginning being imposed as soon as tomorrow at least on senior leaders -- Ukrainian and Russian leaders.
Does that cause any concern there, that there will be consequences to this or has the celebration overcome -- overcome any sense of consequences?
WALSH: Well, I think those consequences will be felt in Moscow necessarily than here. Most Crimeans I think certainly the majority here who are ethnic Russian, Russian-speaking, feel some sense perhaps of a historical pride returning back to the mother land, despite the absence of real democracy behind that referendum.
The question is how tough are these sanctions going to be? We have seen Barack Obama's red line flaunted by Syria which is strongly backed by Moscow and the use of chemical weapons. I'm sure that's entering into the calculations inside Crimea when it comes to working out how tough sanctions could be from Washington. Perhaps they feel emboldened for what they consider to be a weakened United States more inward looking at the moment.
But if this really are really tough moves that freeze assets to the Russian elite or those associated with the Kremlin's policy here, that could be a pause or thought or the alternative school of thought is maybe you irritate those around Putin enough that you get a backlash and he continues to raise tension in Eastern Ukraine where many are worried that amassing troops on the border there could perhaps be involved in some sort of intervention in the days ahead. So, extraordinarily tense choices ahead in the following week. We're far from out of the woods right now -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: You mentioned red lines. There was a time when the referendum was considered by some a red line. Thanks very much Nick Paton Walsh in Crimea -- in the midst of the celebrations there.
As we just discussed, today's vote in Crimea greatly complicates Russia's already strained relations with the U.S. and Europe. President Obama told Russian president, Putin today on the telephone that the referendum violated Ukraine's constitution and was held under duress of Russian military intervention.
Our Erin McPike has more from the White House today.
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The White House is rejecting today's referendum in Crimea and they're saying that they won't recognize it. White House spokesman Jay Carney reiterated that in a statement today in which he increased the pressure on Russia. I want to read that you.
He says, "Russia's actions are dangerous and destabilizing. As the United States and our allies have made clear, military intervention and violation of international law will bring increasing costs for Russia. Not only due to measures imposed by the United States and our allies, but also as a direct result of Russia's own destabilizing actions."
And as far as those costs are concerned, the United States has already imposed some sanctions on Russia. But Congress will consider additional sanctions later this week.
Erin McPike, CNN, the White House.
SCIUTTO: Thanks to Erin McPike at the White House.
American investigators are now helping their Malaysian counterparts; their focus -- the missing plane's crew and passengers. We'll have the latest on the investigation right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York.
Investigators are taking their search for the missing plane in so many different directions, each of them equally likely to be the correct one. One main focus is the two men inside the cockpit when the plane took off from Malaysia ten days ago -- the captain who has a flight simulator in his home and the co-pilot.
Police have now searched both men's home. There's no word on whether they found anything valuable to the investigation yet. The reason though for the scrutiny of the pilots is this. Malaysia officials believe the plane could have been on the ground when it made that last satellite contact. That means somebody would have landed the plane -- somebody with a pilot's training and experience.
Also, the search areas being shaped by countries that are ruling out any chance that the 777 entered their space. India for example says today they definitely would have seen it. Crews from 25 countries are searching for the plane from the sky, from the water, and even from space.
I want to bring in now, as we talk about the investigation, Evan Perez. He's in Washington following the U.S. contribution to this vast search.
Evan, I just want to bring up one detail we talked about for the last four 24 hours a bit. And that's this idea that the pilot turned off those communications systems, and then several minutes later gave what seemed to be a normal, fine thank you, good night, as he was going to pass on to the next radar station, but never did.
How important is that clue to the investigation and what has followed since then, including the searches taking place in the pilots' homes today?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I think one of the things that U.S. investigators have been looking at is the idea that, you know, the sequence of events, the turning off of the communication systems, the turning off of the transponder and turning the aircraft and then flying it for several hours.
All those things, they believe, point to some deliberate actions, some deliberate actions that were happening inside the cockpit. And so, barring any other information, they have not found any indication of any links to terrorism on the flight -- the manifest of passengers on board. They have not found anything else to indicate that perhaps there was some kind of other act that could have forced the plane in this direction.
They have come to believe that the only explanation could come from whatever was happening inside the cockpit. And they, like us, have very little to go on. So, by process of elimination, that's what they're looking at. Again, they're not calling these -- the captain and the co-pilot suspects. But that's what, you know, the focus of their investigation is.
SCIUTTO: Right. They have to look down that line of inquiry.
Now, there's been -- and you and I have talked about this before -- there's been criticism of how the Malaysians are handling the investigation. I want to play a comment today from New York Congressman Peter King talking about that very fact. Let's have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: The fact that the FBI was not asked in, and, you know, these pilots, they should have been -- the pilot and co-pilot should have been the focus from the start. That would be ordinary law enforcement investigatory procedures.
The FBI could have been called to helped that. Interpol could have been called in, our intelligence agencies. But my understanding is that Malaysia is not really cooperating at all. They're very reluctant to lay what they have out on the table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Evan, have you heard that frustration speaking to the U.S. officials you do in Justice, et cetera, that they didn't get the cooperation and the sharing of intel that they wanted from the early stages?
PEREZ: Well, you know, there are two things. I mean, there is -- there was at least in the early days some reluctance by the Malaysians to share some information. There was some limitations that they were putting on the information that they were sharing.
And I think what -- from what I -- my understanding from talking to officials here is that there was a lot of concerns that the Malaysians seemed to be concerned more about what they can share with the Chinese. And so by virtue of, they were not sharing with everyone.
We do know that the FBI was in the control -- the control center that the Malaysians set up right immediately as they figured out something was wrong. We know that the -- that the legal attache in the embassy was invited in. He started providing information. The FBI sent a couple more people down there. So they have do some presence there.
Interpol was called in. I think the criticism has been whether or not the FBI should have a more forceful, a more -- a bigger presence on the ground. But, you know, this is a foreign country. They -- the FBI can't go unless someone invites them in.
And they have not been invited in. And, frankly, there's just not -- you know, it's not clear what they would be doing there. There's no plane to look at, no wreckage. So it's not clear what more they could be doing.
SCIUTTO: Right. Well, let's hope that they work together now, because now there's several international coalitions looking for the plane, looking at satellite data, and investigating the pilots as well and all the passengers as well.
Thanks very much to Evan Perez in Washington.
Now, the search area for Flight 370 is simply enormous, the northern arc passing close to Northern Iran, through Afghanistan, the Himalayas, the southern arc from Indonesia all the way down, as you can see there, to the southern Indian Ocean.
We have meteorologist Chad Myers joining us now.
You have been looking into the possible routes and the satellite information behind it. Can you just walk us through that again, so everyone understands what we know about -- what little we know about that plane and how it builds that search area?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: How they built these arcs and why they're arcs and not circles and all that, let's get right down to it.
I'm going to dig in as close as I can to being understandable. This is a line that represents a ping from a satellite called Inmarsat that happened at 8:11 a.m. It's a ping. It's not a triangulation because there's only one satellite. If you have only one satellite on your GPS in your car, you won't know where you're going. It just will show you that you're in any one of this area around a big circle. And I will show you why.
The plane is leaving here, leaving Kuala Lumpur, turning left, as we know because of the radar data. Probably, if anything is possible to get to this line right here, it would have to go up the Bay of Bengal and then on here over -- literally over the top of the world, over K2, over Mount Everest, somewhere this way or this way, ending up along this line.
A lot easier to get down here, turning left to get to this line here. Doesn't mean this is a path that it flew. It just means that this is the circle that it was on at 8:11. So, how do we get a circle? We get a circle because there's a satellite out here. And it pings the plane, and the plane pings back.
It knows that at some point in time, this is where it is. It's not the middle because the middle is closer to the satellite. It would have taken less time to get to the satellite and back. This is a timing thing. How quick is the speed of light?
Back out here, it takes this long all the way around this circle. Let's rotate this circle around, pretend the satellite now is looking straight down to the Earth. Now we have a lot of square footage here, don't we? Nothing in the middle.
The plane has to be on that red line. But let's try to eliminate at least a little bit of it. The plane was here when it started. We know it couldn't get here. There's not enough fuel, not enough time. So we eliminate all of that. All of that red spot, half of that circle is now gone.
And the country here said, you know what, we have great radar coverage right here. Let's get rid of that altogether. We know it's not there. So there's an arc, and there's an arc. And that's how they got those big red lines.
We don't know that the plane was stopped when it was here. The Malaysian government said maybe -- maybe it was on the ground. If not, it may have still been flying that way or this way. Think about it, Jim. This line right here is 1,600 miles long. This arc is 1,600 miles long. And let's just say 200 miles either side of this line could be the search area.
You do that again down on the bottom, that's Alaska, California, California, California, and Texas added together. That's the size of the search area, because we have one line. If we had more than one satellite. If we had more than one ping, it would be easy. We would know it's right there, right in the middle of that square right there, that triangle. That's triangulation. That's exactly where it would be, no doubt about it.
We don't have two lines, three lines. We have one -- Jim. SCIUTTO: That's a real help, Chad. And the other thing we learned today talking to the makers of the flight data recorders and the ping, ping from the flight data recorder doesn't happen unless the plane hits water. If it's on land in the northern part of that arc, that's at least one bit of information, one sign from the plane you wouldn't get today. So it just makes the search all the more difficult.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: I'm sorry?
SCIUTTO: I was going to say, no, I was going to compliment you, saying no one explains it better than you.
MYERS: Thanks, buddy.
SCIUTTO: So, thanks for coming on again.
MYERS: All right, thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Now, there isn't a single trace of evidence of this missing plane, but there are plenty of theories about what happened to it.
Joining me now by phone, David Funk, pilot and former international captain for Northwest Airlines. He also helped investigate the crash of TWA 800.
Thanks very much for having you on. We know --
DAVID FUNK, FORMER PILOT AND INTERNATIONAL CAPTAIN: Great to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: We know that investigators are doing background checks on everyone on board, but what about workers on the ground at the Kuala Lumpur Airport? This is something Tom Fuentes, our legal -- our analyst mentioned earlier, that it's not just the people on the plane. It's all the people and many more who touched that plane before it took off. Is that right?
FUNK: That's correct, not just today, or -- excuse me -- not just the day of departure, but probably for the few weeks prior, because if you were going to emplace a device to be used by someone later on, you know, hide it somewhere under a panel, you know, hide it as a part of the seat cushion, for example, when you have an idea that you know what your assigned seat is going to be for someone on the airplane that has ill intentions, you have got to look back quite a ways.
And actually this background check doesn't just include, as you mentioned, the passengers and the crew, but it's going to be the ramp guys, the guys that load the bags, the agents that maybe could have handled every single bit of paperwork related to the airplane, whoever brought the catering out, who's working at the catering facility.
This is a monumental investigation and it could take some time. The issue here really is that, in this investigation, the only thing we have to look at right now for sure is the background of the people on the airplane and that touched the airplane the few weeks prior to its departure on the ill-fated flight.
SCIUTTO: David, I want to ask you a question that I asked Congressman Adam Schiff, who was on earlier. He's a member of the House Intelligence Committee.
And that is, as Americans, 13 years after 9/11, the idea that this plane -- and there's evidence of this, that this plane was commandeered in some way -- should that worry the Americans about a vulnerability here today that we wouldn't have imagined existing with all the additional security that we have to go through here in the U.S., but also Americans who travel overseas on airlines overseas? Does this expose a vulnerability?
(CROSSTALK)
FUNK: Yes.
The passengers everywhere in the world that are getting on an airplane are going to meet the minimum standards, which are quite high actually. I hate to use the word minimum because it's just the floor. Many countries do a very good job, and Malaysia is one of them, in screening their passengers getting on the airplanes.
Now, maybe they don't do as extensive an electronic background check like we do, where we computerize, look at how much do we know about an individual getting on the airplane to decide how much scrutiny they need. But when you get to the airplane, the Malaysians do a very good job. And they have for a long time.
Northwest Airlines operated into Malaysia, and I was involved with when we went in there and was very impressed with the training that was actually provided by an Israeli company to the Malaysians to make sure they met the U.S. standards.
The standards are even higher now. I'm a little less worried about the screening process for getting the passengers on there as I am I want to know who was around that plane prior to departure. Now, I'm still not -- I'm not of the of the set that this was either terrorism or it was some cascading electrical-mechanical problem.
It may be a combination. The way we have seen the appreciate climb and descent after communications was lost, based on the radar skin paints from the Malaysian air force, tells me that it was probably out of control. And if there was an attempt to breach the flight deck, as is being reported today in the U.K. "Telegraph" -- I know you guys are still trying to collaborate that story -- but if that was the case, there may have been no one left on the airplane after a fight to get control of it that was alive to actually fly it.
And, believe me, just because someone has trained 100 hours of flight training and we stick them in a big airplane like this, you put them out over an ocean at night, they're going to be totally lost. They are not going to maintain the control of the airplane. It's not a difficult airplane to fly. It's a difficult airplane to fly precisely - SCIUTTO: David, I want to ask you a question, because even when there are plots or whiffs of plots in the U.S. or chatter about plots, about new threats to airlines, whether it's a new way to get explosives on board, we had this recently, new shoe bombs, et cetera, you will see new security measures.
Here, we have what appears to be or could a successful plot to commandeer an airline. Should -- do you believe, first of all, should Americans expect changes to come, maybe more thorough checks on passport information as they're boarding, et cetera? And are there vulnerabilities you see as a pilot, a knowledgeable pilot that you think could be corrected after what we know of this plane, for instance, the idea that the transponder can be turned off in the cockpit?
Should it be automatic -- automatically sending out this data? Anything that you would want to see changed?
FUNK: Well, you know, from a transponder standpoint, the only time a pilot knows it's not working is when air traffic control says, hey, we're not receiving your squawk, Northwest, or in this case Malaysia 370 or Delta 222, whatever the flight may be. And that's why we have a switch for on/off system one and backup system number two. And we exercise both systems on every flight. Excuse me. Excuse me.
SCIUTTO: Bless you.
You still there?
FUNK: Sorry about that.
SCIUTTO: That's OK.
FUNK: That being said, I don't see that the -- that the technical details of how we operate the cocktail is that a big deal at this point.
If there was a breach or an attempted breach, and there was a hijacking -- and this is a big if, because, let's face it, the Islamists that are probably involved in this tend to do -- they tend to embellish a lot as to what they can and can't do and what their capabilities are.
They're trying to scare us, the rest of the world. If there was a breach, the airplane, probably the crew, either in cahoots or together fighting them, or fighting against each other, if it was the captain or the co-pilot that was actually involved in the attempt to take over the airplane, the other one finds about it, I can tell you what.
If a co-pilot, captain, I'm hijacking this airplane, fight's on, dude. We're going to the death here. And that may very well have happened, which is why this airplane didn't plow into something, like the big Petronas Tower in Malaysia, which is a high-priority target for al Qaeda and has been for years.
So, I wouldn't make the assumption that what we're looking at here is necessarily a successful hijacking. There may have been a successful attempt to take the flight deck. But after it was all done, because of the fight by the crew, let's face it, just a couple weeks ago in China, two Uighurs, if I pronounced that correctly, of a group of several tried to hijack an airplane, and were killed by Chinese passengers.
So, even around the world, a society that's not known for standing up many times for itself and taking initiative, like Americans or Europeans are, those folks stood right up and took those hijackers. They fought them off and actually killed two of the several of them as they attempted to hijack a regional jet, so not uncommon or not unexpected that there's going to be a fight if people know about it.
And good likelihood that that's nobody on that airplane that could fly it afterwards, which is why it may have just headed off into -- out over the Indian Ocean or out over land.
To go back to your previous segment in the last hour where the technical expert from the company that manufactures the flight data recorder, and the pinging, that's just a little electronic beep that go out. And we found the Air France, we being the investigators, found the Air France 447 black box two years after it should have been shut down and the battery was worn out. But it was still working in 10,000 feet of water.
So, if that airplane is in the water somewhere, we're going to find it. There's no doubt about it. If it hit in an uncontrolled state, when we locate it, there's going to be a lot of debris on the surface, trust me. We will get close, as your weather expert said, talking about the pinging and the range. We're going to find this airplane. And it's not my belief in any way, shape or form that this thing is sitting on a runway somewhere in the world waiting to be used for another nefarious act, because the airplane would have talked to us and told us where it was.
SCIUTTO: OK. Thank you very much, David Funk. It's good to have a pilot, someone who has been behind the controls for several hours. And you bring up an interesting possibility, the idea of a fight in the cockpit. We had that with Egypt Air, the flight where -- evidence that the pilot was fighting with the co-pilot, one of the many lines of inquiry.
Much more coverage of the Malaysian Flight 370 just ahead.
But, first, Gloria Killian thought she'd spend the rest of her life in prison for a crime she did not commit. That changed when the mother of a famous astronaut intervened on her behalf -- her story right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: We're going to have more on the missing Malaysia Airlines jet shortly, but first we want to turn to a powerful series that CNN has been working on for so long, "Death Row Stories," and the story of Gloria Killian. She was locked away in a California prison for more than 16 years, convicted of being the mastermind behind a robbery and murder. Killian always maintained her innocence, but testimony from an alleged accomplice sealed her conviction. And although she had been a law school student with a clean record, she could find no way to prove her innocence and no one to even listen to her story, until the day she met Joyce Ride.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NARRATOR: But, in 1992, after six years behind bars, Gloria received a visit that would change her life.
JOYCE RIDE, HELPED FREE GLORIA KILLIAN: Part of my training was never asking an inmate why she's there. The best thing to do is just to sit and listen. They need someone to talk to, usually.
Joyce is the mother of Sally Ride, the first American woman in space. Joyce had devoted herself to women behind bars and started visiting Gloria to discuss battered women. They never spoke about Gloria's case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joyce is very reserved, and Gloria is very reserved. They're both Norwegian, so it's basically two trees talking to each other for a year.
RIDE: After a year of getting to know her, I finally said, why are you here?
GLORIA KILLIAN, WRONGFULLY CONVICTED: It was surprising to me that she would care. Nobody -- nobody cared what happened to me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Eventually, letters emerged revealing prosecutors had used a plea deal in exchange for testimony against her. Gloria was eventually released in 2002. And the DA in her case was charged with misconduct.
Gloria Killian joins me now from Los Angeles.
Gloria, it is fantastic to meet you. Thank you so much for coming on. Your story is -- it just mesmerize us at CNN.
And I just wanted to ask you, that day you were first arrested, what was going through your mind, knowing that you were innocent?
KILLIAN: I have heard -- there's a million different words to describe it. And there isn't a single word that actually describes what you think.
Surrealistic is the most common term that you hear. For a moment, I actually thought I had lost my hearing, that he couldn't possibly have said what he said to me, which is that "You're under arrest." And your mind just begins to rocket around in your brain. And you start thinking, this -- this can't possibly be happening. There's nothing happening here that makes any sense, because I had been talking to them for quite a while. I certainly hadn't said anything incriminating. Just, all of a sudden he stood up, and said, you're under arrest for murder, and you're going to go to the gas chamber.
SCIUTTO: Now, Joyce Ride appeared in your life almost like an angel, it seems. How much did she change your case, but also just your outlook on this whole case, for what was just a devastating period in your life?
KILLIAN: My outlook on my -- it is difficult to explain my outlook on my case.
But one of the reasons that I'm here and that I can -- that I do the work that I do is because people do not realize how common this is. There are thousands of people in the United States that are locked up for crimes that they did not commit.
And people don't realize that. Just, I definitely want to be sure that this doesn't happen to anyone else, they do not have to go through what I went through. And, also, we have to reform our judicial system. We can't keep doing this to people. We can't keep destroying lives and then just continuing on as if it made no difference at all.
SCIUTTO: That's where the importance of DNA has been, particularly for taking people off death row.
I wonder if you could describe the day, that day that you learned that you were going to finally be freed after all -- all these years that were stolen from you.
KILLIAN: I had actually known for a couple days.
But the institution, they wanted to keep it rather quiet, because they didn't want a big crowd of reporters or anything else. And, in the meantime, one of my very close friends died early that morning, so I was an emotional wreck anyhow.
And I was racing back and forth between my job, the telephone, and everything else. I couldn't get ahold of people. It was crazy. And then, all of a sudden, an officer said something to me that made it very clear that I was going to get out at the 5:00 count.
The word flashed around the institution, and I do mean flashed. Everybody knew. And, at 5:00, when count cleared, my entire housing unit stayed to walk me to the gate. I walked across the yard to see my friend, and they all just followed me all the way to the gate.
It was probably the most amazing experience that I have ever had in my life. And I really wish people could have seen it, because so many of those women are never going to get out unless they get some help. And for them to be so grateful and so joyful for me was such a special experience.
SCIUTTO: Well, it's a story, thankfully, with a happy ending to make you smile, 16 years in prison wrongfully accused.
Gloria Killian, thanks so much for joining us.
For more on Gloria's --
KILLIAN: Seventeen-and-a-half.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Seventeen-and-a-half, all right, there you go, 17.5 years stolen from Gloria Killian.
For more on Gloria's story, watch tonight's episode of the new CNN original series "DEATH ROW STORIES" tonight at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
Now, people around the world are jumping into action, scouring satellite pictures of the ocean for any sign of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. We will explain how they're doing their part next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: With so many questions still unanswered, there is only one thing certain. That is, the plane is still missing and no one knows for sure why. There has been no debris found, no wreckage, nothing.
And that sparked people around the world to jump into action themselves, scouring satellite pictures of the ocean for any sign of debris.
Here's CNN's Ana Cabrera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joe Francica in Huntsville, Alabama is on a mission.
JOE FRANCICA, SEARCHING IMAGES FOR MISSING PLANE: There is an awful lot of ground to cover.
CABRERA: He's one of many around the world crowdsourcing, using satellite snapshots to search for ma Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
(on camera): We're looking perhaps over an ocean.
FRANCICA: Yes, and that's -- that's my interpretation.
CABRERA (voice-over): We searched with Francica through his computer, joining what organizers say are more than two million volunteers poring over the digital images looking for a trace of the vanished flight.
FRANCICA: It's important to -- for the families to know that people are helping in the search.
CABRERA: It can be an arduous task. Sometimes, there's not much to see.
FRANCICA: Today's imagery is primary whitecaps.
CABRERA: But crowdsources on social media are sharing what they have seen, maybe a raft, what appear to be wings.
FRANCICA: You never know what's going to pop up.
CABRERA: The search area has been divided into small sections. Each picture, or tile, represents 250 square meters, roughly 10 city blocks. The key is, if you see anything, wreckage, a raft, an oil slick or an object, you flag it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a real needle-in-a-haystack problem.
CABRERA: DigitalGlobe, which launched the crowdsourcing campaign on Monday, says every pixel has had eyes on it at least 30 times. So far, more than 745,000 features have tagged.
