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Aviation Engineer on Flight 370; Avoiding Radar Detection; Investigators look at Pilot; U.S. & Europe Freeze Assets

Aired March 17, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go. Wolf, thank you so much. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Great to be with you on this Monday. You are watching CNN's special coverage of the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.

Listen, there are a lot of questions. But really the burning question here, did something sinister happen inside that cockpit of this plane? I want you to watch this because what we're doing here at CNN is we're piecing together this timeline as one bit of information still remains unclear, was a crucial tracking system - we're going to hear this a lot, the ACARS system. This is information that is sent from the plane's engines to the ground basically every half hour -- turned off before the cockpit made his last transmission, "all right, good night." This, of course, would suggest that a plan was already underway to deliberately divert the plane when those words were spoken.

This is what I want you to look at with me because this is what we know. Starting right there at the top of your screen, 1:07 a.m., ACARS makes the last transmission. Fast forward a couple minutes. 1:19 a.m., "all right, good night" radioed from the cockpit. That's the last verbal communication with this plane. 1:21 a.m. the transponder was somehow switched off or stopped working. And at 1:37, and here is the -- this is the key 30-minute window, the ACARS system, that ACARS system fails to make planned contact here, leading some to think the plane may have gone down.

But, no, because you see at the bottom, 2:15 in the morning, military radar detects the plane hundreds of miles off course. And at 8:11 a.m., folks, that is more than seven hours after take-off, a satellite made the last electronic connection - this is what's known as a hand shake, with the plane. But the thing with that hand shake is that it's not specific. It doesn't give location. But based upon the time that passed, it does tell us that it was somewhere -- you see this huge red ark - we know it was somewhere within this ark.

And I know we're throwing a lot of numbers out at you, but there is a face to all of this and let's keep them in mind. The families in anguish. And specifically for the partner of Phillip Wood, the American on board, she told CNN she is still holding out hope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH BAJC, PARTNER OF PASSENGER ON MISSING PLANE: My bag is packed. I'm ready to go. It has been since Saturday morning. DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ready to go where?

BAJC: Wherever he is. My son even helped me pick out which clothes to bring for him, so I have an outfit for him in the -- in my backpack because he wouldn't want to wear his dirty old stuff anymore, I'm sure, and probably wouldn't want to wear a hospital gown, if that's the case. So, yes, it's all ready.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And keep in mind, he is just one of the 239 souls on board that plane.

Given that someone obviously needed expertise to disengage the plane's tracking system and potentially fly that plane for hours and hours, investigators have now renewed their focus on the crew, specifically the plane's pilot and copilot. They are also taking a look at someone new. This is a 29-year-old passenger on board this Flight 370, happens to be a trained civil aviation engineer. And CNN's Saima Mohsin has spoken with his father. She joins me now live from Kuala Lumpur.

And Saima, just first tell me what we know about this young man.

SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, this is a 29-year-old man, as you say. His name is Khairul Amri (ph). He was a trained aviation engineer. He worked for a private jet company his family told me. And through his work, he would travel regularly throughout Asia and other countries like Australia, they said he went to Canada, to fix private jets they said.

Now, of course this is a really difficult time, as you say, for families, loved ones, next of kin of those on board, 239 people on board MH-370. But it's at time that have - that authorities have to investigate what happened on board the plane. They have to ask difficult questions. Now, I put that to his father, Selamat bin Omar. I said, do you believe your son was involved? He said, I don't believe my son was involved. And if the police want to ask me any questions, they can come and speak to me and my family. Let's take a listen to what else he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SELAMAT BIN OMAR, PASSENGER'S FATHER (through translator): No police have come to ask about this at all. None at all. He goes to Sydney, Canada, USA, Singapore. He went to Beijing to repair a plane and was going to bring it back here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MOHSIN: Brooke, as I say, a very delicate time for the families. I also spoke to his stepmother who described him as a very loving, gentle man. And his little sister, just eight years old, who burst into tears when she spoke to me, saying, I want my brother to come back home and said please come back home, Khairul Amri. It was a really touching moment, Brooke. You can imagine the angst the families are going through. Ten days now since that flight's gone missing. And, of course, not just the passengers under scrutiny, but the pilots too. This weekend, the police went to search the homes of both the pilot and copilot (INAUDIBLE). A lot of intrigue has been surrounding this flight simulator, of course. They've been putting back together and taking a look through it. We're hoping to hear more news in the next few days.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: We will get to that simulator specifically in a minute. Saima Mohsin for us in Kuala Lumpur. Thank you.

And as we piece together this timeline, you know, much of the focus centers on those minutes following the last transmission from that system that sends data about the plane. So let's open this up to a big discussion because there are lots of questions. Daniel Rose, pilot and aviation attorney, and Jeff Beatty, security consultant and former FBI special agent.

So, gentlemen, welcome.

Daniel, as the pilot here, I'm just going to kick things off with you. We ran through this 30-minute tick tock, if you will, this window beginning with the last ACARS transmission. When you look at that, what jumps out at you?

DANIEL ROSE, AVIATION AND MARITIMES ATTORNEY: Well, you know, you - what jumps out at me, given the last few days, is, you know, how accurate is that information? It seems to be changing day to day. But if you assume that the timeline is accurate for purposes of this discussion, you certainly, you know -- it tends to suggest that there is maybe a more likely chance that there was a deliberate shutting off of these systems. I still think you cannot rule out the fact that there was a mechanical failure as an explanation for all of this because -

BALDWIN: Absolutely.

ROSE: Some of the - some of these ways that these machines can fail, these systems can fail, are random.

BALDWIN: Listen, this could go 8,000 different ways. You've heard all the theories out there. We're just - we're just, you know, inquisitive on each of the different - each of the different venues. But let me stay with you, Daniel, because we know also how much fuel the jet had. And given that amount of fuel, it is possible - again, we don't know the direction necessarily of this plane, we've seen this massive ark -- it could have gone to Kazakhstan, could have gone to Gugikistan (ph) near Pakistan if it took that northward route. My question to you is, could it realistically though, when you think of all the countries it would have had to have traveled over through to get there, could it have gone undetected?

ROSE: That's the key question. It just seems really highly improbable unless we've been overestimating a lot of other countries radar system capabilities. I mean to fly at, you know, 29,000 feet and be undetected by military radar is inexcusable. Even at 5,000 feet. I mean that's the sweet spot for military radar.

BALDWIN: Jeff, that's where you come in, ex-FBI here. Would -- is it possible that India or Pakistan would really admit if they indeed saw this plane on their radar?

JEFFREY BEATTY, SECURITY CONSULTANT: Well, you bring up an excellent question because they want to protect their own capabilities. Their intelligence services are not going to want to publicize exactly what their capabilities are.

BALDWIN: For all the world to see.

BEATTY: Exactly. I'm also a commercial pilot and I spent some time in Afghanistan recently flying through those mountains. I was not the pilot in that case. I was a passenger. But I can tell you that it certainly is possible to fly through the mountains in that part of the world and not be visible on radar.

Also, an experienced pilot, anyone who wanted to go in that direction, could certainly plot out all the known radar locations and you can easily determine, where are the radar blind spots? It's the type of thing the Americans did when they went into Pakistan to go after Osama bin Laden. So clearly something like this, if it is deliberate, Brooke, it's extremely well planned and I believe that it is within their capabilities to pick a route that would be not easily detectible by radar.

BALDWIN: But, Jeff, if it was deliberate, and that's interesting what you're saying over the mountains of Afghanistan. If it was terrorism, why wouldn't somebody come forward now and say, yes, we did this, we pulled this off?

BEATTY: Well, that's a good question. And the answer is probably because it doesn't suit their purpose at this point. They're not trying to intimidate. Other people have floated the idea that perhaps the aircraft was taken for another purpose. So terrorism is certainly a scenario. Because we haven't heard from any of the passengers when they land, much of the world is covered by cell phone towers. You would hope that they would be able to get a cell phone message out. But you also have places again, like in Afghanistan, where people can shut the cell phone towers off.

Another scenario, if I could put one forward, Brooke, that hasn't been talked about much -

BALDWIN: Sure.

BEATTY: I can give you three examples of where the aircraft became the venue actually for an assassination. Manuel Noriega got rid of his predecessor, Omar Torrijos in Panama that way. Pablo Escobar, the drug lord, took out a Columbian presidential candidate on Avianca 203. And then back in '99, Egypt Air went down in the Atlantic and it had 30 Egyptian officers on, including two general officers on that. And the U.S. came to the conclusion that it was an intentional act of sabotage, killing those personnel on board, including 100 Americans. The Egypt investigation - the Egyptian investigation said it was mechanical failure. So, unfortunately, assassination is a venue.

BALDWIN: So you're throwing out the possibility that there could be -- that there could be someone on board this aircraft that someone wanted dead, is that what you're saying?

BEATTY: That's a possibility. Also, what could be on the aircraft that someone was interested in is cargo. I haven't heard a discussion about, was there any high value cargo on this. We've talked about the word piracy, but pirates go after ships for their cargo. Was there high value cargo on here that this ship was taken to be able to land someplace, take the cargo, or even in a D.B. Cooper like sense, take the cargo out of the cargo hold, leave the aircraft while it's in flight, sent it out over the ocean. You know, those are all possibilities.

But I love your timeline. The timeline definitely shows that the likelihood is this was a deliberate act on somebody's part. They knew the aircraft well. Who knows the aircraft better than anybody else on it is probably the cockpit crew.

BALDWIN: The pilot. Right. OK. Well, there's more theories thrown out there as we continue to scratch our heads over this. Jeff Beatty and Daniel Rose, thank you so much. Both of you pilots. Both of you know this area of the world and we don't know yet, day 10. Guys, thank you so much.

Coming up, they brought up the issue of cell phones. Could the cell phone records of the passengers, could that at all be helpful in this search? We'll dive into that.

Also, when we talk about the cockpit here, what was the pilot doing with a simulator in his own home? What kind of information can actually be learned from that?

And also, in another part of the world we're watching very closely, who controls Crimea. President Barack Obama making an unexpected statement today announcing stiff punishments against Russia. Will Vladimir Putin retaliate? A busy, busy news day. You're watching CNN. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Malaysia's prime minister is sticking with the theory that someone deliberately steered this plane off course. So what that means is that the pilots have become an obvious focus for investigators. So you have this security footage, here it is, from Kuala Lumpur airport allegedly showing the captain and the first officer, here they are going through security. Meanwhile, police are investigating this flight simulator that was seized from the pilot's home. But a friend of the man who was at the controls told CNN, it's not fair to imply the pilot did a darn thing wrong before all the facts are in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER CHONG, CAPTAIN ZAHARIE'S FRIEND: I feel particularly affected when they go for the lack of evidence. You know you go into theories like questioning his credibility, his terrorism links and issues like that. I think it's a bit - a little bit insensitive and unfair to the family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in a man who's been on television every hour of every day for the last 10 days, our aviation expert here, Richard Quest.

And, Richard Quest, I want to begin with the simulator at the pilot's home. You and I talked about this midweek last week. I said, does this -- is this odd at all that a pilot would have a simulator in his home? You said no. He's just a real, you know, aviation nerd. Have you changed your mind at all?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Not a bit. Not one jot (ph).

BALDWIN: Yes.

QUEST: It's unusual. It's a bit geeky. But those who we've heard from, including that friend who have been allowed to have a go on that simulator, said this man loved flying and therefore he'd managed to get hold of a simulator and was using it to refine and hone his skills.

Now, I can hear the other camp immediately saying, yes, hone his skills, hone his skills so he could take over the plane and fly over the Himalayas and land somewhere. Look, we don't know. The fact is, he had his simulator at home. He let friends use it. He used it. But we don't know the purpose. And that's why the full investigation, Brooke, is so important.

Same for the first officer, who I met.

BALDWIN: Yes.

QUEST: Now the first officer had flown for years, five, six years, on the 737 fleet. Was now transitioning to the 777 fleet. There's not a shred of anything to suggest other than circumstantial timelines and facts that they did anything wrong.

BALDWIN: OK. I hear you loud and clear.

Let me shift to cell phones.

QUEST: Sure.

BALDWIN: There's been much discussion. And really this is two-fold. One, it's cell phones, using them while you're in the air. And, two, after one might have crashed or landed, what happens. So, first in the air. I mean you know this. A 777, is a sophisticated plane. Was there no wi-fi on board? I mean I fly.

QUEST: No.

BALDWIN: I hop on wi-fi all the time and I'm texting.

QUEST: I - right, but it's a -- wi-fi on board aircraft is only just coming in. You know, yes, even the major U.S. fleets are only just putting wi-fi across the whole fleet. I don't believe -- I'm prepared to be corrected, but I don't believe there was wi-fi on board this aircraft.

BALDWIN: For anyone to be e-mailing or tweeting or anything?

QUEST: And even if - right. And even if there was, even if there was, disconnecting wi-fi is the easiest part. That really is just the flip of a switch for -- if anybody who's going to disconnect ACARS and anything else, they certainly ain't going to waste to much time worrying about switching off the wi-fi.

BALDWIN: OK.

QUEST: As for on the ground -

BALDWIN: Yes.

QUEST: If you -- where this plane was going, of course, was over the water. There would be no cell signals. Even over ground, if you're five miles up, you're not going to be able to get a cell signal.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. Grab some water. I know you've been on TV all day long. Richard Quest, we'll see you next hour. Thank you so much, sir.

QUEST: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up, just what happened in the final few minutes on board this plane while it was still in the air? We are working on putting together the pieces of what we know for you here. Is there any way the plane could have landed in the water? I'm talking about a controlled landing. Knowing something was going wrong and didn't leave a single bit of debris. We'll explore that angle coming up.

Also, who controls Crimea today? The region voted overwhelmingly to become part of Russia yesterday. As President Obama expands sanctions against Russia, we will tell you who he is targeted as he is now naming names and will Vladimir Putin retaliate? We are live in Crimea after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: According to its parliament, Crimea became an independent state today with Russia poised to gain it, Ukraine losing it. And the U.S. and Europe are doing really what they can to stop this as President Obama explained just today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are imposing sanctions on specific individuals responsible for undermining the sovereignty and territorial integrity and government of Ukraine. We're making it clear that there are consequences for their actions. Continue to make clear to Russia that further provocations will achieve nothing except to further isolate Russia and diminish its place in the world. And continued Russian military intervention in Ukraine will only deepen Russia's diplomatic isolation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The U.S. expanded its sanctions, penalizing and naming 11 people who played a role in this crisis in Ukraine. And the European Union announced its own list of 21 individuals sanctioned for the same reasons. They both are not recognizing Sunday's referendum in Crimea, rejecting the vote's validity when reportedly close to 22,000 Russian troops are occupying this region. The referendum results, 96.7 percent chose to join Russia with a turnout at 83 percent.

Many Ukrainians boycotted the polls and now the world is waiting for the reaction from Russia. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is live for us in Simferopol, Crimea, and we see Jim Acosta there for us at the White House.

And, Jim, let me just begin with you. The president we heard from today. He continues to leave options on the table for Russia.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And we just wrapped up a briefing here at the White House with the press secretary, Jay Carney, who was asked pointedly several times whether Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, could appear on a sanctions list in the coming days. Jay Carney would not rule that out. And so the White House is holding that out as a possibility as the days move forward here. Also, whether or not some of the gas giants, oil giants of Russia might be targeted next. Whether, you know, we might see some of the olegarks (ph), who really have a lot of control and influence in Russia, whether they might be next. And so the White House is indicating that these sanctions could get ratcheted up in the coming day.

But I put the question to Jay Carney, well, does Vladimir Putin care? And that seems to be where all of this is going, Brooke. Of course, Vladimir Putin is expected to address Russia tomorrow. He's supposed to give an official address to the nation tomorrow and so that is going to be what we're all going to be looking towards here as to whether or not Vladimir Putin does actually care as these economic sanctions are ratcheted up.

I can tell you that -- about that referendum in Crimea, Jay Carney was asked about that, senior administration officials have asked about that. They are not viewing that as legitimate, obviously. And one senior administration official went as far as to say that some of the ballots that came in in Crimea, according to the United States, were pre-marked.

BALDWIN: Huh.

ACOSTA: And so the White House, Brooke, is essentially regarding this referendum that took place in Crimea yesterday as a fraud.

BALDWIN: We've heard fraud, illegal, unconstitutional, not just from President Obama, a number of other world leaders.

Nick Paton Walsh, I mean there is also a ceasefire in place. Is Russia expecting to annex Crimea before that ends? Do we know?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It could happen extraordinarily quickly, really, once we've heard from Vladimir Putin on Tuesday. Everything has been tightly choreographed here. We saw the well-funded, orchestrated, but sometimes passionate celebrations in Central (INAUDIBLE) Square last night. A lot of people here are keen to join Russia. But also they're being fed a very one- sided story for quite a period of time by state loyal media.

This morning, parliament voting to establish itself as independent and to ask Russia to bring it into the fold. They've also decided to adopt the Russian ruble and Moscow's time zones. So moving full steam ahead here, whatever the sanctions lay at their feet by Brussels or Washington. The only question being, of course, if Vladimir Putin will move ahead, it's going to be hard for him really to leave Crimea hanging and not bring them into Russia given how it seems frankly at his behest we've seen the last two weeks' worth of activity.

But whatever irregularities you cite at polling stations, we saw a lot of them ourselves. The key one is, of course, 22,000 troops. So opponents of the vote saying, look, you know, this is a farce (ph). It's not a democratic process at all. It's happening at the barrel of a gun, Brooke.

BALDWIN: But yet will that matter in the end with just days to go before this ceasefire expires. Our Nick Paton Walsh will be watching, Jim Acosta at the White House. Gentlemen, thanks to both of you.

We'll get you back to that story. But meantime, we continue digging as the search for the missing Malaysia Air flight has expanded dramatically over the past 10 days, air, land, and most importantly the ocean. Is there any way the plane could have crashed without leaving behind a single bit of debris?

Plus, an expert says the battery - did you know this -- on the beacon locator expires in 30 days, which means the clock is ticking if that plane is, in fact, under water. Stay here. This is CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)