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FBI Searching Simulator; Missing Airline Search; Frustrated Families Beg for Answers

Aired March 19, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.

Great to be with you here. I'm Brooke Baldwin. And you're watching CNN's special coverage of the mystery of Flight 370. A lot of developments today to get to, so let's just get there.

We were told the pilot's at home flight simulator, seen right there behind him, came up clean, right? This is what we were telling you yesterday, nothing suspicious. But now we have learned that data was deleted from that simulator. And now we know that the FBI is using forensics to try to retrieve whatever it was that was erased.

Another potentially critical piece of this puzzle, CNN has learned the plane's computer was likely reprogrammed to change course, take that left turn, at least 12 minutes before the last verbal communication with the cockpit when the copilot radioed the air traffic controller saying, "all right, good night." A senior official telling CNN the search has now zoned in on this corridor right here that you're looking at, the southern tip of this arch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN YOUNG, AUSTRALIAN MARITIME SAFETY AUTHORITY: The search conditions were good and the air crews saw marine life as they were flying through. And so we know we could make sightings. But, in fact, there were - there were no results relevant to the search. Today, the search area has been significantly refined.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As for these families, just look at this one woman. Tensions boiling over at a press briefing today. This is a distraught mother screaming for information on her missing son. She had to be dragged away. Another woman, absolutely fed up with authorities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We have been here for 10 days, no single piece of information. We want media from the entire world to help us appeal that Malaysian government need to give us information as soon as possible. We need media from the entire world to help us find our lost families, and find the MH370 plane. We some 20 families aren't satisfied with Malaysian government's inaction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Can you blame them? Folks, we are in day 13 and many of the families are still living out of this hotel where these press briefings are held, waiting for news that the plane has been found.

But let's talk about the facts. What we know. CNN's Evan Perez out of our Washington, D.C. bureau.

And, Evan, tell me more about how the FBI now is getting involved.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Brooke, you know, the Malaysian investigators have been going through the computers of the two pilots to try to see if they can get any clues as to what may have happened, perhaps any preplanning for any of this and whatever happened to Flight 370. And so far they've come up pretty much empty. They don't find any -- any clues that helps them explain this.

So now they've turned to the FBI. And so we have teams from the FBI. Their forensics lab here in Quantico, Virginia, which is going to take a look at this.

Now, I asked the attorney general, Eric Holder, this morning at a press conference, you know, whether or not he had discussed any of this with his counterparts, and here's what he said.

BALDWIN: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I have not had direct contact with my counterpart in Malaysia, but there has been contact between the various investigative agencies, the FBI here and the relevant agencies in Malaysia. And that conversation -- all those conversations are ongoing. I think that we are still in the process of trying to determine what happened there and we're helping in any way that we can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: So, Brooke, right now we're now going to have a lot more involvement from the FBI and so perhaps we'll see if they can make - get some more clues from these hard drivers.

BALDWIN: OK, so that's key. Two, from your reporting, Evan Perez, we now know that this change in course, this change off course, this left turn was entered at least 12 minutes before that copilot, you know, radioed in and said, "all right, good night." What are investigators saying about that?

PEREZ: Well, you know, the investigators are very - you know, this is actually a big clue simply because, you know, it helps them establish, they believe, that whatever happened inside the cockpit to make this plane divert from its course toward Beijing and turn west, whatever happened, someone deliberately did this, entered this into the computer system. It followed specific waypoints on a path away from where it was supposed to be going. They don't know who did it. They don't know what exactly was in the mind of whoever did this. But they - you know, this is just another data point for them to try to figure things out before they can retrieve the plane, before they have wreckage to look at, which will obviously provide a lot more information, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Was it deliberate, was it simply somebody thinking ahead and having a plan b route? We're going to talk to a pilot. I'm going to ask him that in a minute.

Evan Perez, thank you for your reporting.

I want to play you some sound, a little bit here. This is from the inspector general of the Royal Malaysian Police. This is what he said specifically about the simulator data that has been erased.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAN SRI KHALID ABU BAKAR, INSPECTOR GENERAL, ROYAL MALAYSIAN POLICE: What we have found out from the simulator, that the data log of the games has been cleared on the 3rd of February. So the experts are looking at what are the logs that has been cleared. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in a couple of voices here. Laura Parker, writer and editor for nationalgeographic.com, and commercial pilot Patrick Smith, who authored "Cockpit Confidential" and founded askthepilot.com.

So, both of you, welcome.

PATRICK SMITH, COMMERCIAL PILOT & AIR TRAVEL COLUMNIST: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Patrick, let me begin with where I left off with our justice correspondent there in D.C., Evan Perez, with this, you know, news that there was data erased from this inflight simulator. Let's give the pilot and the co-pilot the benefit of the doubt. I mean when I think about, for example, my e-mail, I'm constantly deleting e-mail because I want to get rid of stuff, I want more room in my inbox. I mean is it possible that if you're just using the simulator, you're just deleting information because you need more hard drive?

SMITH: That was my reaction too. And I'll admit, it's unusual for an airline pilot to have a hobby simulator at home. I can't speak for all pilots, but about (ph) the last thing I want to do after fly on (INAUDIBLE) is come home and fly around my apartment. That said -

BALDWIN: It's interesting, you're the first person who's said that on this show.

That said, though, keep going.

SMITH: Well, that's -- that's not necessarily relevant to what happened. I mean if this guy liked to do that, all well and good. That really - there's no - there's no connection necessarily between that and what happened. The more compelling clue, I think, to come out in the past couple of days is this 12-minute lag in the communications. The ACARS communication and the voice communication with air traffic control.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SMITH: It's important, though, to confirm that those timelines are accurate and that they do line up. And even if so, however, it's not necessarily a smoking gun. There still remains the possibility, although it is admittedly a shrinking one, that they were dealing with some kind of onboard emergency and were making that turn or even preplanning for that turn to the west. The wrinkle there is, of course, that timeline that doesn't match up and also the fact that it appears later in the flight the plane made additional turns off course and why those would have been programmed in back before the first turn, that doesn't make sense. So I think the trend here is towards some sort of takeover of the airplane, wither by a crew member or by other people. We just don't know yet.

BALDWIN: So it's not - Laura, I'm coming to you - but, Patrick, let me just stay with you on your point about this 12 minutes. Is it not something - is it not plausible that a pilot, thinking about plans b, c, and d, when you're getting up in the air, to have backup routes, right, and this could have simply been a backup route -

SMITH: Yes.

BALDWIN: This left hand turn, correct?

SMITH: That very well could be. They could have been preplanning for a diversion. They may have had some onboard situation that they were dealing with that they hadn't yet relayed to controllers on the ground. That's not unusual. Communicating problems like that is something that's pretty far down the hierarchy, your list of priorities when flying an airplane. So that's - that doesn't jump out at me necessarily.

BALDWIN: OK.

SMITH: But, still, there are other wrinkles here that are pointing in the direction of some sort of commandeering of the aircraft.

BALDWIN: OK. Aviate, navigate and lastly communicate, as we're learning is sort of the dictum among pilots.

SMITH: Uh-huh.

BALDWIN: Laura, to you, because this other -- sticking with facts. This U.S. official with knowledge of this investigation acknowledges that they are now honing in on this southern corridor, right? We keep seeing the map with the arch and we're talking about that southern - that southern area, which as we've learned, this is not a normal route for a commercial airliner to fly. Ships don't go in this area. What are you hearing about this?

LAURA PARKER, WRITER & EDITOR, NATIONALGEOGRAPHIC.COM: Well, I think the Australians have put out some information that at least sounds hopeful. I don't know if we can interpret it as being hopeful or not, but they have narrowed the search field down to I think about the size - or half the size of Italy. And so that is a good sign, except for the possibility that, you know, the question remains, are they searching in the right place?

I think the key to this is that the people who are investigating this, who are the experts at interpreting the satellite data, the questions are, are they getting - or how much of this satellite data are they really able to refine and to what extent can they refine it enough to narrow the search and end up, to use the phrase, looking in the right haystack? Are the countries who are participating in this giving the data in its usable form to the people who are doing the analysis? Are there countries who have information that hasn't been shared yet?

There are a whole host of questions involving that, that we don't really have any clarity on.

BALDWIN: Yes.

PARKER: We also have to remember that this is a very unusual event. This has never happened before. You've never had somebody who's hijacked a plane or wanted to commit suicide who's then flown on for seven hours afterwards. A hijacker -

BALDWIN: It doesn't fit the M.O. as we've seen in the past.

PARKER: It doesn't fit the M.O., right.

BALDWIN: Not at all. Not at all.

PARKER: That's correct.

BALDWIN: We don't know. We don't know if that's what happened.

Let me just hit pause on this conversation because, if you will, Laura and Patrick, I'd like for you to stand by. I'd like to hold you over the break. I have more questions, as in, should cockpit doors remain locked and is there any way for a plane to avoid radar detection? We'll get those answers.

Plus, a group of fishermen now say they saw a plane flying very low. CNN speaks with them, coming up. Special coverage continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back to our special coverage of the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370.

I just want you to take note of what Malaysia's minister of transportation stressed before today's press briefing. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HISHAMMUDDIN BIN HUSSEIN, MALAYSIA'S ACTING MINISTER OF TRANSPORTATION: I would like to take this opportunity to state that the passengers, the pilots and the crew, remain innocent until proven otherwise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Rejoining me now, Laura Parker, covering this story for nationalgeographic.com, and pilot Patrick Smith of askthepilot.com.

So welcome, welcome back.

Of all the questions surrounding Flight 370, one thing we know for certain, there would be a lot less speculation, a lot less guessing if there were better communication between planes in flight and those on the ground. So, Laura, I want to come straight to you because you wrote this piece today on how - you know, the different ways planes can communicate. And my question to you is, why not have the device where planes are in constant communication with the ground? We wouldn't be having this conversation. We wouldn't be guessing.

PARKER: That's really a question I would like to hear my companion speak on that. But one of the questions that has been raised is, why don't the flight data recorders submit -- transmit continuously information to the ground so that the ground crew knows what's going on on the plan all of the time.

BALDWIN: Well -

PARKER: And I think that has been a debate for quite a number of years. And while it certainly would have informed folks where the plane is, it's also an extraordinarily expensive thing to do and so the debate has centered around cost and so forth and that's not, obviously, going to be cleared up in this situation.

BALDWIN: Well, let's kick it, Patrick, to you. How Would you answer that question? And let's throw video cameras in the cockpit in there as well. Curious about that as well.

SMITH: Well, first of all, airplanes are always in contact with either air traffic control and/or airline company personnel on the ground for the entire flight. You have to be in -- able to reach both of those entities and how you do that, there are different communication tools in the cockpit, VHF radios, HF radios, SATCOM (ph), FMS data link, ACARS and so on and so forth.

Of course, all of this fancy technology only works if it's powered. If the airplane is on fire or there's some catastrophic failure or that stuff is intentionally turned off, it's not going to work.

I think the thinking here in this day and age is, people are so used to the, you know, immediacy of the Internet and this total instant connectivity. You know your computer only connects you to the web until somebody comes up behind it and pulls the plug out and then all of that disappears. And I think that's somewhat useful analogy here.

And, Brooke, not to hijack this conversation, so to speak -

BALDWIN: Oh, bad word.

SMITH: But something I think we really need to talk about here, I want to - I really hope we can get past and move on away from this idea that the plane is safely tucked away in a hangar somewhere on some remote island or in Pakistan or Turkmenistan.

BALDWIN: Who's suggesting that? I sure as hell am not.

SMITH: Oh, lots of people. The e-mails I've been getting for the past week are overwhelming suggestive of some sort of organized conspiracy where the airplane is going to be used later as a weapon to drop a nuke or some biological agent over a city.

Look, just -- the point here, there hundreds if not thousands of cargo jets and business planes and other aircraft all over the world that move around more or less anonymously. Any one of those would be a better pick for that job. Why would a group of hijackers steal a plane full of passengers from one of the most prestigious airlines in the world, guaranteeing that everybody on the planet is going to be looking for them? That whole M.O. makes no sense and I just - I don't want to keep hearing it. It is - BALDWIN: I can't answer that and I --

SMITH: And maybe you're not aware, but it's everywhere. It's everywhere.

BALDWIN: I can't answer that and I - I'm not -- let's not go down the road of speculation, but let me stick to one very, very realistic possibility, that being they never find this plane. Let's go down that road -

SMITH: Right.

BALDWIN: Because that is -- that is possible. Patrick, if 370 is never found, how will this impact airlines, airline safety? What do you think?

SMITH: Well, you know, in the context of airline safety, I hope this incident doesn't undermine the fact and steal people's attention away from the fact that air safety nowadays is astonishingly safe. Last year, in fact, it was the safest year worldwide now, not just in the U.S., in the entire history of commercial aviation. Now, we're never going to be 100 percent safe and occasionally there are going to be disasters. That doesn't mean flying is unsafe and people shouldn't have this idea that flying now because of this incident is more hazardous.

BALDWIN: But you can understand why this is freaking people out, right?

SMITH: Of course it is because it gets to people's inherent fears of flying. And also, and this is part of why I wrote my look, there's so much bad information, so much urban mythology out there. Any time there's a mystery involving an airplane, it strikes that nerve and really compels people. I understand that. It's human nature. But it's also unfortunate because it gives people the idea that flying is more dangerous than it really is.

BALDWIN: It's like your worst nightmare.

PARKER: I think it's a little premature, Brooke, to -

BALDWIN: Quickly, Laura, then we've got to go.

PARKER: It's a little premature to write this off as we may never find this plane.

SMITH: We may never.

PARKER: We need to see the analysis - what the analysis too (ph). That is a fact, it may never be found. But even if it's not found, I'm not sure that that's going to have a fundamental change, a dramatic change in the way airlines are operated.

SMITH: I would agree with that.

PARKER: But we need to give the people who are searching for it more time - more time to do their job.

BALDWIN: Sure. I'm not saying call off the search. I was just saying, hey, there is a realistic possibility down the road no one finds it. I hope that's not the possibility that we enter into. I hope, like the rest of us, everyone's a-OK.

We have to leave it. Laura Parker and Patrick Smith, I truly appreciate both of you coming on.

PARKER: Thank you.

SMITH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And I have questions. You have questions. We're going to take some of your questions about the plane as well. Send me a tweet. I'm constantly checking Twitter during the show, @brookebcnn. Use the #370qs. And we will have an expert on hand to answer some of your questions directly live here on the show, 3:30 Eastern. So, stick around certainly for that.

Coming up, let's get back to the families because let me tell you, these people of those missing on Flight 370 had to be physically dragged out of this press conference this morning after being overcome by frustration and anger at Malaysian authorities. Up next, why can't they get the answers? Why are they not getting the information they so desperately want? Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Grief-stricken families of Flight 370 are losing patience with the slow pace of this investigation and really the lack of information from Malaysian officials. You've seen the heart-wrenching scene. We've played it for you here on CNN from just this morning. Some passengers' anguished families. You hear the woman screaming, dragged out of a government news briefing after they stormed it, demanded answers. And the woman you just saw there, her son was on Flight 370. She begged officials to tell the truth, her words, and to stop ignoring the desperate pleas of these relatives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We are victims' family from Beijing. We have been here for more than 10 days. There are more than 20 (ph) of us here.

REPORTER (through translator): What has Malaysia Airlines told you in the (INAUDIBLE) days (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just keep telling (ph) us all, saying keep (ph) waiting (ph) and waiting (ph) for (INAUDIBLE). I can't know (ph) what we are getting to wait till - it's already 12 days. my (INAUDIBLE). I don't know where my (INAUDIBLE) 12 days. My son, where is my son? (INAUDIBLE) you give me an (INAUDIBLE)? (INAUDIBLE) It's already 12 days, I have been here for 10 days. I am (INAUDIBLE) the way (ph) that (INAUDIBLE) to come here. They (INAUDIBLE) the question we raised (ph) every day. They just brushed us off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: They just brushed us off, she says. Also this woman you see in this picture, her partner is missing American passenger Phil Wood. She's making her own desperate plea not to government officials, but to the people she believes are involved in the plane's disappearance. What Sarah Bajc said last night on CNN's "AC 360."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH BAJC, PARTNER OF MISSING FLIGHT 370 PASSENGER: I'm hoping and I'm asking, please, to not -not hurt the people on the plane. You know, find some other way to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish, but don't hurt the people. Let - let Phillip come back to me, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So why aren't these grieving families getting the information they need? They answer may lie with how countries are trained to handle these kinds of tragedies. Here is our correspondent now Will Ripley joining me live.

And, Will, this kind of disconnect, I'd like to think, would be highly unlikely if this were to happen most involving the U.S. Why is that?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, the United States has seen more than its fair share of disasters, Brooke. Some have been handled better than others. But the one thing that the U.S. has learned is that you need to be prepared, you need to have a plan in place. And there are really three key factors in disaster response. You need to know who's in charge. Again, you need to have a solid plan of action in place. And then you need to know how to communicate information clearly to those affected. And over the past 12 days, the families, the international press, even the Chinese government have been blasting Malaysia saying that they've been severely lacking in all three of those areas.

We have seen families so desperate for information they've gone on hunger strike. And then today, in that press briefings, those three family members walked in, they made a desperate plea to the international media to please help them get information about their loved ones from the Malaysian government. And in response, they were forcefully dragged out of that room - by the way, they were swarmed by the press. That only made the situation even worse, as the media swarmed them. But then they were basically dragged down the hall, locked in a room, and then later removed from the premises. Some more structure and some more clear communication may have prevented this, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And let me make sure we get this in, Will. The Malaysian government says it's sending a second team of high-level officials to Beijing to meet next of kin, give them the latest information. But this is what they're saying in a statement. They express compassion. They being Malaysian minister of transportation. "We regret the scenes at this afternoon's press conference involving some of the relatives of passengers on board MH370. One can only imagine the anguish they are going through. Malaysia is doing everything in its power to find MH370. I have ordered an immediate inquiry into the events in the press room today."

Will Ripley, thank you so much for joining me.

Coming up next, a source familiar with the investigation here tells CNN he believes this plane is in the southern ark of the search zone. But if they do find debris, at this point the plane could be hundreds of miles away. We'll talk to an ocean search expert about that angle.

Also ahead, families, again, we come back to these families of the victims in another plane crash. They have now written this open letter to the families you saw in that press briefing telling them to get answers. They have advice. They say get answers fast. Their advice specifically coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)