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"Daily Telegraph" Obtains Flight Transcripts; Search Made Complex By Remote, Volatile Area; Experts Answer Viewer Questions; How Fire is Handled on Airliners; Long and Complicated Insurance Claim Process for Passengers of Flight; World's Largest Message in a Bottle Collection

Aired March 21, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Just want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. You are watching CNN's special, live coverage of the disappearance of Flight 370.

We are getting reports at this hour from the British newspaper, "The Daily Telegraph," that they got a hold of this flight transcript. I'm talking about every word spoken from the moment before this plane took off until it vanished with that final verbal communication from the cockpit, those four words, "All right, good night."

But just to reiterate to you as we're awaiting this news, CNN has not been able to independently confirm that this transcript is genuine, but "The Telegraph" is reporting that something they say is odd, that someone in the cockpit radioed in a message to ground control saying that they were cruising at this altitude of 35,000 feet.

Sounds normal. Why might it be odd? They had just told ground control that very fact, six minutes previous.

But, overall, the determination here is that nothing seemed suspicious in these communications from ground control to the cockpit. We are waiting for more information on the transcript.

Meantime, two days of searching and there is no sign yet of possible debris picked out by a satellite scanning this remote part of the world, the southern Indian Ocean.

More ships, more planes, they are on their way to the search area about 1,500 miles off the west coast of Australia from Perth, so the task at hand is daunting.

As I mentioned, this part of the world is remote. It is desolate. It is in a constant state of flux.

So, CNN's Tom Foreman is here in our Virtual Room to really help us understand what is involved in the search, and what makes it so incredibly difficult, Tom?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, the reason we are hanging on every word about everything in this investigation is they need something, some clue to narrow this down.

They've tried to narrow it down to this little area right here, but they are racing time and frankly they're racing physics here.

Look, that was much bigger a couple of days ago. Now it's down here. Why has it changed this way? It's changed this way because this is a very volatile part of the world, and every hour that goes by, the physics of the area are changing the search area and where they need to focus. And everything they search changes that.

Let me talk about this a little bit, because when you talk about searching on a water environment, yes, you can fly satellites over to look for things. Yes, you can bring boats out to look for things.

But even if you spot something in this part of the world, you may have currents here that are moving at two-, three-, three-and-a-half-miles- an-hour at any given moment. They're not constant. They go in all sorts of different directions. They tend to go east.

But if one did go constantly and you threw a tennis ball into the water here, in 14 days, it could be hundreds, or actually, mathematically, more than a thousand miles away just based on the currents.

So, everything they are looking at keeps changing. When you go below the surface, it gets even messier. Once you get down there beneath the waves, you have to deal with anywhere from one to two miles of water deep, depending on where you are in the Indian Ocean.

And, yes, you can send in something like a side-scan sonar, which is sort of a towed, torpedo-like thing that will actually paint a three-D image of objects on the bottom of the ocean floor, so you can look at it just as you would a big picture.

And by studying the contours of that, you can say, is that part of a ship or is something there?

But you know what? You can't do this over the whole ocean floor. That takes a lot of time, to tow those through. You have to have a clue to get you close.

And, right now, even that big area we're talking about, way too big for an operation like this right now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So incredibly frustrating and just the vast nature.

I was talking to a man who knows the oceans very well and he said he was trying to figure out if there were any other part of the world that was more vast and isolated and not known and he said he couldn't find it.

FOREMAN: Yeah, it's the confluence of the Indian Ocean and the southern ocean, which is the ocean that goes around Antarctica. And it's a very explosive area. And it's just a difficult, difficult place to work.

BALDWIN: Tom Foreman, thank you.

And a lot of questions from you right now, so let's use some of your questions. Let's put them to our aviation experts.

They're rejoining me, Ric Gillespie, former aviation accident investigator, and Bill Savage, former 777 pilot and certified airline accident investigator.

So, let's get right to it, beginning, Bill, with you. You want this answer very badly, but let's try to answer the why.

Why -- this is from Bill Wey (ph) -- why have we not heard the actual audio from the air traffic control? Why do you think?

WILLIAM SAVAGE, FORMER 777 PILOT: I'm speculating on that. The Malaysian government would have that.

Air traffic control would have produced that almost immediately, and there would be a reason for propriety in evaluating that, and they may not want to divulge everything that's on that at this juncture.

The thing that troubles me, again, is the inflections on that tape would be very important to see, if an emergency is transpiring, you might hear different inflections in the voice on the radio because of the adrenaline pump that's going on dealing with the emergency or, again, somebody entered the cockpit, or if the other crew member was trying to do something with the airplane that was untoward, this would -- you would hear that in the voice.

Your point about calling out the altitudes, every time you make a frequency change, the proper protocol, which the Asians are very good at, is to announce either, if you are climbing, what level you are climbing through and have been cleared to, and once you reach there, if you are in cruise at 350, you would announce that to the controller that Malaysian 370 is with you at flight level 350.

BALDWIN: So you would announce it twice --

SAVAGE: So, that's not unusual at all.

BALDWIN: You would announce it twice if you are changing frequencies?

SAVAGE: You announce it with every new controller.

You verify the controller that gave you that clearance and tell him you understood that by repeating it, and when the next controller comes on and you check in with him, you tell him the flight number and the altitude you are flying at.

BALDWIN: OK.

SAVAGE: And that's why the last transmission is so troubling, because the check-off would include a clearance that was given to them for the next frequency, and you would repeat that, and you would sign off with your call sign, Malaysian 370.

That didn't happen and it's very troubling to me that it more is a vernacular of Caucasians, Americans, Westerners, than it is Asians.

BALDWIN: I know you said that before, your opinion. I know other pilots have said it's perfectly normal.

I don't know if it's because he's younger and he's using different vernacular. We just don't know.

But on your point about --

SAVAGE: And you are asking Westerners.

BALDWIN: Right, of course, I am.

SAVAGE: You're asking Westerners.

BALDWIN: Right, right, of course, and your point is fully taken.

Rick, let me just ask you, because Bill brings up this great point about listening for inflections.

Erika asks this. She wants to know, can we -- in terms of voices, can we run a voice analysis to gauge the pilot's stress level when he bade to air traffic controllers if there other instances of him signing off previous to that we could cross check?

Is that a possibility?

RIC GILLESPIE, FORMER AVIATION ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR: It's a possibility if you have a base line to check it against.

You are going to need transmissions from the individual who is at a time when you know he is not under stress.

So that's why it would be important to get the actual recordings, as Bill has said, of the back and forth between the ground controllers and the aircraft.

That last transmission, "All right, good night," raises a couple of questions. What's "all right?" And "good night" says this is the last I'm going to talk to you.

So there was an agreement between the controller and the co-pilot, if that was him on the radio, that the copilot would not be talking to him again and that the copilot was in agreement with something that the ground controller said.

And you would expect the next communication to be with -- on some other frequency to some other ground station. That's what's implied. But without the transcript, we don't know.

BALDWIN: We've got to get the transcript, and I think to both to your points, not just the transcript, but you've got to listen to it. You've got to listen to hear the voices, points made lout and clear.

Gentlemen, Ric and Bill, thank you very much. And keep your questions coming, please. We will continue to answer your viewers questions tonight. Make sure you tune in to watch our CNN SPECIAL REPORT at 10:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

We want to switch our focus back to those lithium-ion batteries that we know were, in fact, in the cargo hold of this 370, so we will go back live to this flight simulator to show you what would happen if a fire did start.

But this time we're going to speak specifically about the cockpit.

You are watching CNN's special coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN's special, live coverage of the disappearance of Flight 370 and those 239 people onboard.

One theory that is being discussed today because the Malaysian Airlines CEO acknowledged this morning that there were, in fact, lithium-ion batteries in that cargo hold, would that be a possibility? Could there have been a spark? Could there have been a fire because of the batteries.

Let's go back to our virtual cockpit, back to Martin Savidge and his flight instructor Mitch Casado.

So, Martin, what do you think of this idea? Could a fire potentially have spread through the cargo hold to where you would be sitting in the cockpit?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's no question, Brooke, that there's a lot of what that fire could do that sort of makes sense for the scenario we are talking about.

In fact, Mitch and I were just saying it's about the worst thing you could anticipate as a pilot.

MITCHELL CASADO, 777 FLIGHT SIMULATOR INSTRUCTOR: As far as likely emergencies, a fire is the worst thing that you could have aboard, yeah.

SAVIDGE: And the way it would happen, say, in the cargo hold if it were batteries or something else flammable that caught fire, the way we're going to know about it first is you're going to get the bells, you're going to get the screen that will light up and give you indications that you have a fire.

This is a test right now, but it would show you exactly where this fire is located in the aircraft. If it's on the engines, these light up. If it's the APU, this lights up.

If it's the cargo hold, then essentially you've got an automatic fire suppression system that should kick in, right? CASADO: That's right. We would have an indication on what we call the (inaudible), that center screen here, and we would see the discharge button here would light up, indicating that the fire retardant has, in fact, exploded so that it's being used.

SAVIDGE: Now, if it didn't happen, you could make it work manually.

If that continues to spread, though, this is where the pilot comes in, and this has happened with other aircraft, that the smoke would get so dense in the cockpit -- and, remember, you can't open the window to let it out -- the pilots were overcome and that's how the aircraft goes down.

BALDWIN: OK. Martin and Mitch, thank you very much in the virtual cockpit for us.

Coming up next, we'll talk about the passengers' families and, specifically, options they may have if they are talking to lawyers.

Would they already have a case? An aviation lawyer will join me, next.

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BALDWIN: In addition to the grief, the families of Flight 370 passengers will face the task of filing insurance claims for the presumed loss of their loved ones.

And it can be long, and it can be a complicated process, involving questions of location and liability. And what happens if the plane is never found?

Alison Kosik takes us through the long and complicated legal maze.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Two hundred and thirty- nine people aboard a giant aircraft that disappears into the night, government officials still piecing together information, family members are understandably outraged.

But even if the victims are never found, liability insurance can help their families, though that process likely won't be easy.

BRIAN HAVEL, LAW PROFESSOR, DEPAUL UNIVERSITY: One of the procedures is to ensure that in the event of a disappearance like this there is a presumption of death, which is ruled by a court.

KOSIK: In some countries, that ruling could be difficult to get. But it's essential for the next step of filing a claim.

Victims' families have protection under what's known in the aviation industry as the 1999 Montreal Convention.

Malaysia signed on to that treaty. It outlines where liability claims can be brought, including the airline country of operation, the location of its corporate headquarters, where the ticket was bought, a passenger's final destination, a passenger's permanent residence.

Whether the victims are found or not, a basic cause of the disappearance will still be determined.

DANIEL ROSE, AVIATION ATTORNEY, KREINDLER & KREINDLER: From a legal point of view, this is - it's not an unprecedented situation where an aircraft has not been recovered.

And, indeed, legal cases have been made out many times where the aircraft is not recovered and it's done through, you know, what's called really circumstantial evidence.

KOSIK: That evidence will point to one of two scenarios, that the disappearance was caused by an intentional act, like terrorism, suicide or sabotage -- experts say, in that case, Malaysia Airlines would likely be liable -- or that a mechanical or systems issue was to blame.

If that happens, airplane maker Boeing and other manufacturers could be brought into the insurance claims, leading to an even bigger legal process.

Lawyers say the claims must be filed on a passenger-by-passenger basis through a complex web of payouts, policies, possible lawsuits and legal obligations. Unfortunately, with the victims' families having already gone through so much at the center of it.

Alison Kosik, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this with Arthur Rosenberg, an aviation lawyer, aviation engineer, pilot. So, Arthur, welcome.

Let me get right to the fact that we now know that some initial insurance payments have been made to these families, even though, obviously, they are still looking for the plane.

What are the payments for?

ARTHUR ROSENBERG, AVIATION LAWYER: Sure. The way this works it is this.

There essentially is an agreement under the Aviation Disaster Family Assistance act. It's also made relevant through international flights through international understanding.

Essentially what happens is that the government tells the airline to pay for the family's basic economic needs, food, shelter, if they have mortgage payments, car payments, something to get through this horrendous period.

BALDWIN: OK.

ROSENBERG: That comes out of the insurance that the airline has, that it's required to have, under the Montreal Convention. Beyond that, if you'd like me to go with that, I can take you down that road.

BALDWIN: Now, beyond that, go ahead. Finish your thought.

ROSENBERG: OK, yeah. Beyond that, these families need representation and guidance because they will have to file claims within a two-year period. It's mandatory.

Now, in order to file the claim, as the piece leading up to this segment said, you have to have a finding of death. That's nothing extraordinary.

It's done all the time when you're missing for a certain period of time, especially in an accident like this. There's a presumption of death, which now allows you to move on.

In the Montreal Convention, there's a two-tier system of recovery. The first is a strict liability. These family members are entitled to essentially $170,000 American, plus or minus.

And beyond that, they then have to show that the airline was somehow negligent and then their damages are unlimited. Whatever they can prove, they --

BALDWIN: Let me ask you to hit pause there, because I'm wondering, in order to prove this, would it be better for the families to file these lawsuits case-by-case or to all band together and to file as a group?

ROSENBERG: No. In these kinds of cases, there really is no class action. Because everyone's damage situation is unique, the cases must get filed individually.

But that being said, on the liability side of the equation, the courts will consolidate all of these individual cases together for a uniform discovery, uniform proceedings and then individual damage trials will be held for each family member.

BALDWIN: As the days and, heaven forbid, weeks continue on, I know we'll be talking about many more legal angles in the future, so, Arthur Rosenberg, please come back.

We're out of time, but thank you so much for your expertise. We'll be calling you again.

And we'll take a quick break. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Tomorrow is World Water Day. One man and his nearly 70,000 volunteers have removed more than 7 million pounds of garbage from rivers.

During that work, 2013's CNN Hero of the Year accumulated what he believes is one of the largest message in a bottle collections.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHAD PREGRACKE, 2013 CNN HERO OF THE YEAR: This is a message in a bottle collection that we have collected over the years.

It's pretty cool to find them because you never know how far they came, where they came from, who they came from. Each one tells its own story.

This one is pretty cool. It's from the '93 flood. It had a flag on it.

This is a bunch of lottery tickets. I don't know if they're winners or not, but obviously not.

Here's one. This is one is cool, a picture of Bill Clinton. That's pretty neat.

Some of them have been found three or four times and passed on and it will keep going down the river, down the river, people sign them and date them.

This one had money in it with postage so you could send it back to them. It's kind of cool. We haven't done that yet. Probably should. Stamps went up since then, though.

This is a voodoo one. Better not be for me, but it had like nails in it and it had a note in it with a string tied on it. It was -- it said, you are bound now, you are bound now.

There's actually a lot of them that are pretty heavy. They were written to a lost loved one. I don't want to keep it, just because it was meant not to be kept.

It's just fun to find them. It's fun for the volunteers. But it's a pretty unique collection, because I don't know who else finds this many messages in a bottle, so it's pretty cool.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: If you know someone like Chad, you want to nominate a CNN Hero, please do so. Go to CNNHeroes.com.

That's it for me. Have wonderful weekends.

Of course, stay tuned to CNN with the latest developments in this missing flight story.

Meantime, to Washington, we go. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.