Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Search Continues for Flight 370; Rescuers Search for Washington Mudslide Victims

Aired March 25, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HLN ANCHOR: That wasn't the only issue that took this story to a whole other level. There were so many mistakes made that night.

And we reveal those, and we talk about those, and we talk about the changes as well, and also how Hazelwood is doing now. As you can see, he carries a pretty heavy burden.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We will be watching tonight, "Oil and Water: The Wreck of the Exxon Valdez," 10:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

Kyra Phillips, thank you very much.

And we continue on, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And soon, planes and ships will be scrambling to get back to the narrowed search area off the West Coast of Australia. A precious day has been lost because of the conditions, the gale-force winds, the torrential rains over the hostile seas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK BINSKIN, VICE CHIEF, AUSTRALIAN DEFENSE FORCE: To put the analogy of what we have got out there at that moment, we're not searching for a needle in a haystack. We're still trying to find where the haystack is. So that's just to put it in context.

You're seeing a multinational effort going on. It is difficult for HMS Success to in these weather conditions be able to find small bits of debris that is washing around in the Southern Indian Ocean at the moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And for the families, you have seen the pictures. The search itself has never been more painful. We heard from Malaysia, the prime minister, all lives lost.

So the families of Flight 370 say that is a lie, and some are calling Malaysian officials murderer. And this here, families clashing with police, banned from buses. They walked to the Malaysian Embassy, refusing to believe without proof, without pieces of the plane, they refuse to believe that the plane ended up in the Southern Indian Ocean. Malaysia, though, is so sure of this that it's called off the search in the northern corridor. The Malaysians have all their confidence pinned on this British company we have talked about, this Inmarsat, which says it tracked that plane into the southern corridor with six handshakes, or pings.

Adding to the credibility of this data, CNN has also learned, it's been verified by space agency experts and by Boeing itself. If searchers can figure out where this plane went down, recovery teams will be using the super-sensitive listening device, it's called a hydrophone, to try to locate all of those crucial data recorders. Right? That will let them know what happened on board this plane.

So, here she is. Stephanie Elam is joining me from Santa Barbara out on a boat, giving us this really pretty incredible, Stephanie, firsthand look as far as how this technology works. So, show me.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's true, Brooke. It's really amazing.

When you think about the Indian Ocean, the South Indian Ocean, you're talking about a massive body of water. So what we wanted to find out, exactly, what's the difference between a hydrophone and a sonar?

I will introduce you to our new -- our talent resident pundit here. This is James Coleman. He's a senior hydrographer with Teledyne Reson.

And he's going to tell us exactly how a hydrophone works first.

There are different kinds of them, right, James?

JAMES COLEMAN, TELEDYNE RESON: Right. Exactly.

This is a hydrophone, as well as this one. They're both varieties. A hydrophone, put simply, is just a microphone for use underwater. So just like the sound would enter the wet end here, but the difference between a microphone and a hydrophone, one of them, is that there's a pressurized housing that will allow this thing to go down to the bottom of the ocean. So you put these things on systems or on tails and tow them behind the ship and get them down deep so they can hear that sound coming from the pinger.

ELAM: And this is what is picking up the ping. The ping is going off once every second. It's listening to it on a certain frequency, correct?

COLEMAN: Exactly. It's between 30 and 40 kilohertz. It's a low- frequency sound because that travels very far in the ocean.

That pinger is going out once a second. And you use a hydrophone just like you would a microphone to be able to listen to it underwater.

ELAM: This has to be how close to that ping?

COLEMAN: About five miles. ELAM: About five miles, so that's a widespread area you're talking about. So that's the hydrophone. This is what you start with when you still have the ping for a few more days. That's it.

The other option is the sonar, what they would go to second. And these are two options that are sonar examples.

COLEMAN: Right. This is a sonar. And the difference between a hydrophone and a sonar is the hydrophone is just listening for that ping. If that ping dies, then what this going to do is, this is going to emit sound that's going to reflect off the sea floor. And we're going to pick up the sound that bounces off of the sea floor and use it to form images of what's on the bottom, so that we can create a map of what's down on the ocean floor.

ELAM: And then tell that there is some real debris down there.

COLEMAN: Exactly.

ELAM: So this really narrows it down.

COLEMAN: Exactly.

ELAM: Now that we know what the technology in the water looks like, let's go see what it looks like on the boat and see what you're able to get as you do this and how this technology works that they're probably using in the Southern Indian Ocean, so starting with what you're getting from the hydrophone.

COLEMAN: Right.

And so the hydrophone, you could just put a headset on and listen to the hydrophone and listen for the pings coming from the thing, but you also have a visual display, where you're looking at the actual sound coming out of the ocean. So this is ocean sound here. And there's some noise source in this particular part of the frequency band.

But if you were there with the pinger, you see a really sharp spike at the spot where the pinger is pinging. So once you got within realm, within that five miles of it, you would have a visual display.

ELAM: A visual of it. And so you have got that, and it works in tandem, because here we have got the sonar over here and the sonar is actually showing us sort of the map of the bottom of the water.

COLEMAN: Right. The sonar is pinging below the vessel as we go, and it's mapping out what is the sea floor below the vessel. As you build that up, as the vessel goes over, you generate a map of the targets and objects that are on the sea floor.

If this was a wreck site, we'd be able to pick up the different pieces of the wreck and generate an actual 3-D map of what's on the sea floor. But the problem with this sensor is that you have to get it down near the bottom of the ocean. So if you're in the Southern Indian Ocean, you have to get censors like this all the way down near the bottom of the ocean to generate a high-resolution map of the sea floor.

ELAM: And in this case, how deep is this right here where we are?

COLEMAN: We're from the surface, but we're in 40 feet of water right now and we're mapping from the vessel the 40 feet of water. You could do the same kind of mapping from higher altitudes, but still when you're in 4,000 to 5,000 meters of ocean water, you have to get this sensor much further down.

ELAM: And you can't do it fast. You're talking about going through miles and miles of sea floor and doing it very slowly to get this data.

COLEMAN: Yes. Yes. You have to build this map up. You're covering a small area of time. It's very complex to get this sensor down to the bottom of the ocean. And then you have to cover small areas that you build up over time to get a large map of what is down there. It's very time-consuming.

ELAM: And that's how they're able to tell if something looks like it may be foreign to there or if it could be maybe a part of an airplane. So this is generally probably how they're looking for it, just very slowly in the Southern Indian Ocean.

COLEMAN: Yes, the sonar works quite slow. But if it's down there, and you get the sensor down there, you will be able to map what's out there and capture the debris field, if we're able to narrow in on it.

ELAM: It's pretty amazing technology, Brooke. And as you can see right here, this is a pipeline that's at the bottom of the sea floor here in the harbor in Santa Barbara. So you can see what's underneath you, and you know if it's something you need to go down and investigate. But it's some pretty amazing technology.

BALDWIN: It's incredible technology. But you and I know talking to all these experts they have to really find the debris field, right, the plane debris. They have to find the haystack, if you will, before finding the needle, before finding that black box.

Stephanie Elam, thank you so much though for the demonstration. I appreciate it

And just broadening out discussion now, let me bring in former commercial pilot and CNN aviation analyst Jim Tilmon and CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest.

So, gentlemen, welcome.

Jim Tilmon, here's my first question to you, because I read this opinion piece on CNN.com by Robert Goyer. He's been talking a lot on CNN. He's also the editor in chief of "Flying" magazine and also a commercial pilot. He wrote this whole more or less hypothesis. Right?

He writes about the 777 and how altitude is key in figuring out what happened and fuel and distance this plane traveled and concludes, "While it's horrific to imagine, a botched hijacking or failed pilot commandeering of the airplane are still the most likely scenarios."

Jim Tilmon, do you agree with that?

JIM TILMON, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I got to tell you I read his piece with great interest because I have had some concerns and some skepticism about where we were going and...

BALDWIN: Oh, we losing him?

TILMON: ... really good sense,

BALDWIN: It makes really good sense. We're figuring out your signal, because I can hear you intermittently, Jim.

Richard Quest, did you read this piece? What do you make of that notion?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I did read it. The whole attitude and altitude is one that's been doing the rounds. Could the plane have gone that far south if it wasn't at 35,000 feet?

There are two views on this. I have actually had, by the way, some pilots now e-mail me saying the flight, the plane could have done a very long distance, 12,000 feet at a slower speed. You pays your money, you takes your choice. I have actually looked at airline charts and fuel burn charts now.

But the core point -- let's get away from the detail -- the core point of the article is a strong one. And it basically is the argument that says all the circumstantial evidence that we have heard so far points to somebody, what I call the nefarious option, Border Patrol

Yes, I can see that on its face of it, the nefarious option, either by pilots or by hijackers does seem to be a very strong possibility. Where I differ from others, and maybe even from the good captain, and we have discussed it before, where I disagree without -- is I am not prepared to go beyond saying, yes, it is one of the options.

But I do concede it is now a very strong option. Everything points in that direction. I just don't want to go on and say further.

BALDWIN: No, no, it's an interesting read from a pilot. I will tweet it out for our viewers if you want to read this.

But my next question, too, we talked so much, right, about the search in the Southern Indian Ocean, Jim Tilmon, and how ultimately what really holds all the secrets as far as what happened on board the plane is the flight data recorder, the black box.

So really they're listening for two different pings. There's a ping coming from the cockpit voice recorder. There's a ping coming from the black box. But what I didn't realize until reading further today that the communication in the cockpit, the flight -- the cockpit voice recorder, it continually records over itself.

So if they find it, it's only the last two hours of conversation, correct?

TILMON: That's correct. And I'm not altogether certain about how much power was available for the boxes to continue to function.

It sounds like someone did something at some point to take the power away from these devices, and if that's the case, we have very limited information at best. But you're right, we only looked at the last few minutes or hours depending upon which device you're talking about.

But even that would give us a lot of information. I really don't want to downplay that at all. I'm really anxious to hear what they have to say on those boxes.

BALDWIN: Yes.

Richard Quest, much has been discussed about the "All right, good night," that final communication from we believe was the co-pilot. I have talked to myriad pilots saying, especially Western pilots saying that is the appropriate phraseology back to the ground.

But I talked to one pilot specifically who said, no, that culturally, Malaysian pilots would not use that phrase. And he found it odd. Where do you stand on that?

QUEST: I'm under no doubt about this. It doesn't tell us anything. I have listened to air traffic control where I have heard pilots just simply sign off because they're in a hurry or they're pissed off with air traffic control or they didn't get the altitude. "All right, good night."

And, frankly, I have also heard air traffic control being -- struck back and demand that the pilot do a proper read-back, 370 contacting 120.9, all right, good night. I have heard it both ways. You cannot just take this.

What I do think you can take is that since whoever said it -- and we assume it was -- because what we have been told it was the co-pilot. Since we have been told it was the co-pilot, he didn't indicate the plane was on fire, a bomb had gone off, or there was some dreadful incident going on, we can I think realistically assume that nothing -- if mechanical option is the preferred choice, that nothing had happened by then, because that would be very odd to simply say all right, good night, and not say by the way, the wing's on fire.

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Yes. So, let's not read too much into the "All right, good night." It was sloppy, but it was not unknown.

BALDWIN: Glad I asked.

Richard Quest, Jim Tilmon, thank you both very much.

Coming up, we have to talk about the families, of course. This is what this is about, the anguish, the frustration, the anger. They're saying it's all a lie that the lives are lost. So they're calling Malaysians, the government, the airline murderers. See what happened when they stormed the Malaysian Embassy today, plus, how they're reacting to this $5,000 payout from the airline.

Also back here at home, one geologist is calling the landslide the worst he has ever seen, still more than 170 unaccounted for as rescuers are clinging to hope that they can find additional survivors. We will take you there live. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Malaysian officials say they can now tell you how Flight 370 ended. They say they can even tell you when it happened. But what they can't still tell you is why, or precisely where, or show you one single piece of tangible wreckage, and that uncertainty is just proving to be too much for these families.

They want hard evidence that the plane did, indeed, crash into the Southern Indian Ocean.

CNN's Sara Sidner is live for us in Kuala Lumpur.

And, Sara, I mean, you have talked to family members. What are they telling you today?

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, there was a heartbreaking story that we heard today, a mother, a wife who was waiting for her husband to return, and literally, she's sitting in a hotel room believing that he may come back to her, may be in her arms once again.

She has been there waiting with the other families who were waiting for their loved ones on Flight MH370 for the past 18 days now. She says she simply lost faith in the authorities here, because, so many times, there were -- their information was put out and it just turned out not to be true.

And they really feel that there's some information being withheld from the families. That is the general consensus among many of the family members both here and in Beijing. But she said something that really, really broke everyone's heart as we were listening to her talking. She said that she simply does not have the courage to tell her 1- and 5-year-old boys who are back with their grandparents in Beijing, waiting for their mommy and daddy to return, she doesn't have the heart to tell them that their father is missing right now.

And she herself cannot bring herself to believe that he's actually gone, even though we have heard time and again now from Malaysian authorities, both the government and the airline, that they believe those families are gone forever -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: A lot of lost faith and can you blame them? We saw even the pictures today some of these relatives walking, marching to the Malaysian Embassy in Beijing. They want answers.

Tell me, Sara, has the Malaysian government responded to that? SIDNER: Look, the Malaysian government has been saying that sometimes they're getting information that is not correct. And they come back and correct themselves as soon as possible.

But for the last couple of days, they have been very consistent with this Inmarsat data that has told them they believe this plane was flying over the southern part of the Indian Ocean and that is where this flight ended. That has been consistent for the last couple of days.

They also said they're not holding back anything from the families, but they have to do an investigation. Of course, that investigation, they cannot give out all of that information as they're trying to get accurate information. Once they get that accurate information, they say they have been sharing it with the families.

And we do know the last few briefings, the families knew first about this latest and most devastating information, and then that information was shared with the media and subsequently the world. But you're seeing that video there in Beijing, emotions there quite different, the scene there quite different in the hotel where the families are, their outbursts much louder, their response much grander in a sense.

They are really going after authorities in a visceral way. Here in Kuala Lumpur, it is much more sedate, much more filled with sorrow than rage, although that angers exists. What you're really seeing here are somber tones, people who are crying, people who are overcome with grief and have to be wheeled out in wheelchairs, taken in an balance to try and get some relief from all of this.

But you are seeing a bit of a different scene here, the families much more sedate. And they're just trying to process this information, really, Brooke, because they have waited for so long and they thought that, potentially, perhaps, there was a chance that their loved ones are still alive, and some of them still believe that. They will not believe anything different until they see that physical evidence, wreckage.

We're talking about bits of the plane. Until that's proven to them, a lot of them believe that this is not over and their loved ones are out there somewhere alive -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: They want that proof.

Sara Sidner, our senior international correspondent in Kuala Lumpur, thank you.

Coming up next here, a piece of underwater equipment known as an ROV may solve the mystery of this Flight 370. So we will take a closer look at this underwater vehicle built to work specifically in deep seas like the Indian Ocean.

Also ahead, this deadly landslide, family members holding out hope, rescuers trying to dig through the debris to find survivors. We will take you live to the scene next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The death toll stands at 14 in rural Washington State after this mudslide just virtually wiped out two communities in Snohomish County.

You see the pictures yourself right here, just utter devastation. Officials there say there's anywhere from 30 to 40 feet of mud and debris in the towns of Oso and Darrington. At least 49 structures were destroyed, and there are still more than 170 people still unaccounted for.

One woman who is desperately trying to find four family members spoke with Anderson Cooper about how overwhelmed this community is feeling right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLE WEBB RIVERA, FAMILY MEMBER MISSING: This is catastrophic for our community. And all of us who are waiting for word on our family members know each other. We know the other family members that are missing. It's such beyond the scope of my four missing family members, that -- it's just -- it's grief for our whole town. Just pray for our town, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Several volunteers are helping out with the search-and- rescue.

And let's straight to Darrington to CNN's Bill Weir.

And, Bill, what a compelling interview last hour. And I think what just sticks with me is what he told you, this man who is missing his own loved ones, describing to you kids digging out their parents. It's awful.

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, grown children, but still. Your heart just rends for these people in this town. They're so close. They're still processing this in different stages.

Some would say denial. Others call it hope. It depends on who you talk to, just talking to a clergy. But to give you some sense of this, this is the staging area here in Darrington. We're on the west side of the slide. All morning we have been watching volunteers get briefed here and then head down that road, down Highway 530 into the scene of just such utter devastation, and when they come back, Brooke, they come back changed by the things they have seen.

I have talked to a few who are just haunted by the images up there describing the victims of this landslide like they have been tossed into a rock tumbler. It's so gruesome. And of course we're all holding out hope that there are air pockets. It's like an earthquake where people survive for days in a hidden little corner and we just need to give them enough time so they can be heard -- their cries can be heard. But I talked to one fireman here from this town who described the paste, the greasy past-like structure -- or consistency of that earth, all that wet earth that came down, how it filled everything, how it ripped cars in half. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN LENON, DARRINGTON FIRE DEPARTMENT: The people we're finding are not just buried. They're ripped apart, smashed.

WEIR: So, they went for a ride in that mess?

LENON: Clothes are ripped off, very indignifying. It's hard to deal with the images.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: So the cost that will carry on from here, not just the mourning of those who have lost theirs, their loved ones, 14, although that's bound to go higher, but there's a psychological toll of all those volunteers who are up there working that pile right now and all the first-responders as well.

And clergy are now already getting guidance on how to go into the schools and deal with the kids' questions as we go forward here. So I wish I could inject some sense of hope that there's a feeling that, you know, the clock is just ticking if they can get there fast enough. So many folks I have talked to have resigned themselves to the fact that it's time to start mourning.

BALDWIN: I am so glad you talked to a firefighter. In times of threat , our thoughts are always with the families or those who are missing or of who are no longer with us, but it's also those rescue teams who are searching and finding and seeing things no one should ever have to see.

Bill Weir, thank you so much in Washington for us right now.

Coming up here, back to the plane. Underwater piece of equipment here could be the key to finding Flight 370. We will show you how this robot could give us the first glimpse of Flight 370.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)