Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Satellite Search Spots Debris; Search Equipment in Australia; Possible Scenario; Debris Spotted in Area Size of Denver; Obama Speaks after US-EU Summit

Aired March 26, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me this morning.

A new glimmer of hope in finding Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Satellite images show possible debris field. Some 122 objects bobbing in the south Indian Ocean. Now until crews can reach those items, it will be impossible to tell if they're tied to the crash. But on this 19th day of the flight's disappearance, it's a possible lead in a search that has been exhaustive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: I heard it described earlier today that it's like - it's not -- we're not trying to find the needle in a haystack, we're trying to find the haystack. I'd tell you we're trying to find the farm that the haystack's on right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Andrew Stevens is in Perth, Australia, the hub of the search.

Andrew, this new development has raised spirits again.

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Carol. We've been here before, I would have to say. It's not the first time satellite images have created ripples of hope which have so far led to nothing.

These new satellite images coming from a French defense company. As you say, 122 objects. One of them looked or some of them looked bright and could indicate that they are heavy, solid pieces of - well, we -- what we - what, we don't know, but they are saying at this stage that it could be linked but, again, we've heard all this before.

Now, that came just a couple of hours before two spotter planes over the search zone to say also saw some debris. Again, small objects, pieces of rope. But you talk to the pilots and they say, we see a lot of debris down there. And when we talk about seeing debris, when we tell the media about the debris we're seeing, that means that it is potentially linked to Flight 370. There is a lot of rubbish in the water down there, so they have to be quite careful about what they look at and what they decide are objects of interest.

So what we know is the satellite images show these 122 objects in the search zone. It corresponds with the two flight source seeing those objects. What we don't have yet and what we have to have is eyes on. There are five ships now in that area. There's the Australian naval vessel and there are four Chinese ships, three naval ships and one ice breaker. But as yet they still haven't been able to get to any of these sights to pick up any debris which could be linked.

All the search planes have now left the area, Carol. It's dark there. We're waiting for the last two to come back. The Australians came in about an hour ago. We were told that weather conditions were good over the target. Importantly, this pilot said they're going to be good tomorrow as well. He did say we didn't see anything but conditions are good. And it is now a race, very much a race against time, given the fact that the beacon which tells you where the flight recording boxes are has only got another 13, 14 days to run.

COSTELLO: Understood. Andrew Stevens reporting live from Australia this morning.

Now two pieces of equipment from the United States are now in Australia too to help to search for Flight 370. Joining me now is Sam Lagrone, editor of the "U.S. Naval Institute News."

Good morning.

SAM LAGRONE, EDITOR, "U.S. NAVAL INSTITUTE NEWS": Good morning.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about those planes, those search planes, because they've been looking and looking. Some of those planes have spotted stuff, but the ships in the water haven't been able to get to that spot before weather happens or night fall falls. It must be frustrating for those pilots.

LAGRONE: Well, if you think about the satellite imagery that's coming in to the pilots, it's generally a guide for where they can look. But the waves and the wind currents of the ocean can move debris several miles -- dozens of miles before planes can actually get there. So when you think about how these planes execute these search areas, they're given a general grid, so a box in which they have to search in. And so if you think about it like mowing your lawn, you have to - you have your yard and you have to go back and forth and back and forth in a systematic way so you can check off that grid and make sure it's -- it's clear and it's ready to go and then move on to the next kind of search area that you're being directed to, in this case by the Australians.

COSTELLO: And I know when they spot debris, they throw buoys out of the plane to sort of mark the spot, right?

LAGRONE: Uh-huh. Well, those -- there's all sorts of series of markers that the P-3s and the P-8s and now the Chinese aircraft can deploy to throw out a marker to say that this area might warrant more investigation or we've already been here just in case someone else goes over the same territory.

COSTELLO: I also want to talk about this underwater robot that will be used. It's equipped with sonar and shaped sort of like a torpedo. Can you tell us about that?

LAGRONE: Sure. The Blue Fin 21 is a technology that the Navy's been testing for mine hunting. So one of the hard parts about finding mines on the bottom of the sea is you have to have a very high degree of fidelity to check to see if that - well, is that a mine or is that a refrigerator buried in muck. So it's a very sophisticated sensor set that's based on this essentially a sonar robot. And it can -- the Blue Fin in particular can go really deep, about three miles, and it has a pretty sophisticated series of sonar and what's called a multi-beam echo sounding that gives you a very clear picture of the sea floor.

The problem with that is that it's relatively slow. It only goes about, you know, two to four knots when it's searching. So you have to have a very, very specific area to look at for it to be useful.

COSTELLO: And, yes -

LAGRONE: So the -

COSTELLO: And there's the problem, right?

I also understand a Towed Pinger Locator is in Australia. It won't get to the search area for at least another week. Will that be too late?

LAGRONE: Well, if the battery on the black box or the flight data recorder is about a month. So given how long the aircraft has been missing, so it's about two weeks left until that battery goes out. So it all depends. This is one of two that the United States Navy has that's run by their salvage division of Naval Sea Systems Command. And they are able to employ those, you know, in the event of one of the Navy's planes go missing. But it's also -- you know, has obvious civilian applications here.

But combining the Blue Fin with TPL 25, which is the black box detector, those are essentially in the region for contingency purposes. I mean you have to pretty much know where the aircraft is before either of those pieces of equipment would be very useful.

COSTELLO: Understand. Sam Lagrone, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

LAGRONE: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come on the NEWSROOM, President Obama in Europe this week as part of a visit designed to show a united front against Russia's action in the Ukraine. We'll take you to Belgium for his remarks after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: New debris sightings and a more focused search area still haven't answered a key question about the missing jet liner. Why did it fly for hours and hours to one of the most remote areas on earth? CNN's Martin Savidge plays out a haunting possible scenario from inside a Boeing 777 flight simulator.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Morning, Carol. It's called the zombie plane or it's called the ghost plane or it's called the plane without a brain. Whatever you call it, it is an aircraft that is now no longer in human control. And here's a scenario in which it can happen.

The plane would have reached cruising altitude. Everything seems normal when suddenly there could be some sort of an alarm. Could be a fire alarm. Could be another alarm that signals a sudden decompression in the cabin. Either way, immediately the pilot and co-pilot go into action. The plane begins a descent and it probably makes a very sharp turn. The reason for the turn is you're over water. You want to get back towards land. You want to get to the nearest airport or at least the longest runway you can find that's nearby.

And you're descending because you need to breathe. You're up at an altitude where people cannot breathe. The oxygen masks are on for the pilot and co-pilot. The passengers have had those drop down in front of their face. But for the passengers, it only lasts for about 10 minutes. So you need to get this aircraft down at an altitude where people can breathe normally. And that would be 12,000 to 10,000 feet. So that's what is going on in the scenario.

And then the plane kind of stabilizes for reasons we're not quite clear on but it becomes stable, starts flying more normally. And at this point then it appears somebody puts the aircraft back on the automatic pilot on a new heading, though, of course. And then shortly thereafter, everybody passes out. Could be that it's the lack of oxygen. It could be that it's smoke, whatever, fumes. Everybody is now unconscious.

But because the plane is on a new heading and because it's on automatic pilot and it's got six hours of fuel, it will fly and fly and fly until eventually it runs out of fuel, the engines turn off and then the plane begins a descent into the ocean. Now it's not clear if that descent would be dramatic or whether it would be gradual. There are a number of features on this airplane to try to make it gradual. Either way, without human control, once it gets to the water, it is likely to have a catastrophic ending.

That is the ghost plane theory. We're not sure if it fits everything with Flight 370. Many people believe it is a viable explanation.

Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Martin Savidge, Mitchell Casado, thanks, as always.

You see that picture right there in the corner of your screen. That would be the European Union president in Brussels. Of course, President Obama will shortly be making remarks after a summit between the United States and the European Union. When the president gets to the podium, of course, we'll join in and allow you to hear his remarks. We're back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Well, we've been telling you about this new debris field found in the southern Indian Ocean. And investigators say they're hopeful that that maybe connected to Flight 370.

In the meantime, families well they still continue to wait for any hard core evidence that the plane actually crashed into the Indian Ocean. Many of them are speaking out including the mother of a passenger. Her son was on board Flight 370. She talked with Pauline Chiou.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN WANG, MOTHER WAS ON MH370: Me and most of the relatives here are seeking for the truth, the truth about what happened to the plane and the truth about where it was. That's what we want.

PAULINE CHIOU, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Why don't you believe the data and the answers from the Malaysian government? Because you have said time and time again that you believe the Malaysian government is actually hiding something.

WANG: Yes.

CHIOU: Why do you believe that?

WANG: Well, because the conclusion is just by a theory, it's just by analysis from the satellite data. So there are no direct evidence show that from (inaudible) some of the things from the plane there are nothing found. So I don't believe any such kind of conclusion.

CHIOU: Now the data from the satellite company and from the U.K. aviation authority has been collected and the Malaysian authorities have taken that into account, and when you take into account also the amount of fuel that the plane would have had at that point, they're saying the logical conclusion is that it was in this part of the southern corridor in the southern third Indian Ocean.

WANG: Yes.

CHIOU: Why is that not good enough for you?

WANG: Because it is still a theory. It is just still analysis. No one have seen anything and they just said where it should be or it might be and it should turn back or it should and as they said that it is based on the basically speed for the whole but if the plane change speed or change height it might change to another result. So I don't believe it.

CHIOU: Let's talk about your level of hope, a few days ago when you and I talked you had said that you're realistic but at the same time you feel that most family are sort of 80 percent ready for bad news, 20 percent hoping for good news still.

WANG: Yes.

CHIOU: Today where do you stand in terms of hope?

WANG: Well for me I think it might be five percent that there is still hope and but most of the families don't believe that it might be bad news. Most of the families still think that there will be hope.

CHIOU: When you say five percent hope for yourself hope for -- hope for what?

WANG: Yes that it was still maybe negotiating by the hijacker and the government or something like that and that -- they're imprisoned by some of the hijacker or something that. Either way they are still negotiating I think if they make a deal maybe our family was back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ok that was a son whose mother died or was presumed dead. And she was aboard Flight 370.

We are going to go back to Brussels for just a second. The European Union President is speaking right now. Afterwards President Obama will make some remarks. He's speaking very much about Russia. They all want to present this united front against Russia's actions in Crimea. When the President takes the podium of course we'll take you back live. I've to take a break now though.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right back to Brussels President Obama now speaking. Let's listen.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've met at the White House. We've met in Northern Ireland, this week in The Hague so it's good to finally meet the President of the European Union at the European Union. As I've said before, Europe is America's closest partner. Europe, including the European Union, is the cornerstone of our engagement around the globe.

We are more secure and we are more prosperous. The world is safer and more just when Europe and America stand as one. And later today, I look forward to speaking to the young people from across Europe about how we can sustain the values and ideals that are at the heart of our (AUDIO).

As Presidents Van Rompuy and Barroso just mentioned, our work today touched on a full range of issues where we work together. We agreed to step up our efforts to boost growth and job creation on both sides of the Atlantic and that includes working to conclude a trans-Atlantic trade and investment partnership. And let me add once we have a trade agreement in place, exports licenses for projects for liquefied natural gas destined to Europe would be much easier. That's something that's obviously relevant in today's geo-political climate.

We reviewed our negotiations with Iran, which I believe give us the opportunity to peacefully resolve the world's concerns with the Iranian nuclear program. We pledged to sustain our support for the effort to eliminate serious chemical weapons, even as we work to deliver humanitarian relief to the Syrian people. And we discussed a number of global challenges, including the desire to step up our cooperation with the Asia Pacific region and our commitment to a new global agreement to combat climate change.

Obviously much of our focus today was on the situation in Ukraine. Russia's actions in Ukraine aren't just about one country but about the kind of Europe and the kind of world that we live in.

The European project was born from the ashes of two world wars. And the United States has long supported European integration as a force for peace and prosperity. And Europe's progress rests on basic principles, including respect for international law as well as the sovereignty and territorial integrity of nations. That's what Russia violated with its military action against Ukraine.

The United States and Europe stand united on this issue. We are united in our support for the Ukraine and for the need to provide economic assistance to help stabilize its economy. We are united in our commitment to Europe's security, we're united in our determination to isolate Russia and impose costs for Russia's actions.

Every step of the way, I have coordinated closely with our allies and partners in Europe. I want to thank Presidents Van Rompuy and Barroso for the leadership they have shown during this difficult time. I want to commend the EU for the important steps taken already to make sure Russia feels the cost of its behavior in Ukraine by implementing visa bans and freezing assets around designating individuals for sanctions and canceling a number of engagements with Russia and making it clear that if Russia stays on its current course, the consequences for the Russian economy will continue to grow.

Of course all this comes atop of the measures and sanctions that the United States and others around the world are imposing on Russia and taking together the most significant sanctions Russia has faced since the end of the Cold War.

More over, Russia stands alone. Russia stood alone when trying to defend its actions at the U.N. Security Council. The 28 members of the European Union are united. The 28 members of NATO are united. Every member of the G-7 has imposed sanctions on Russia as we announced on Monday. And the G-7 will meet here in Brussels in June, without Russia.

If anyone in the Russian leadership thought the world wouldn't care about their actions in Ukraine or that they could drive a wedge between the European Union and the United States, they clearly miscalculated. As I've said repeatedly and was mentioned by both Presidents Van Rompuy and Barroso, there is still a way for Russia to work with Ukraine and the international community to deescalate the situation through diplomacy. That is the only way that the issue will be resolved. If Russia continues on its current course, however, the isolation will deepen. Sanctions will increase and there will be growing consequences for the Russian economy. This reflects the enduring commitment to the goal that has brought Europe and the United States together for decades, a Europe that is whole and free and at peace. In closing, I just want to say to Presidents Van Rompuy and Barroso, as you prepare to conclude your tenures later this year, thank you for all the outstanding work that you have been able to do together. We have gone through some very rocky waters. We have persevered through some very difficult economic times but throughout this process, we have been able to deepen the ties between the European Union and the United States. We have been able to advance the cause of security and human dignity around the world. I'm personally grateful to both of you for your leadership as well as your friendship and most importantly for the purposes of our countries that we represent here today, your dedication to the transatlantic relationship.

Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for your statement, President Obama. Now, there is time for two questions. Thank you for your kind understanding. Please state your name and the media you're representing before addressing your question.

Yes, sir.

CHRISTIAN BERMA, GERMAN PRESS AGENCY: Christian Berma (ph), German Press Agency -- GPA. Good afternoon. I have one question for the Presidents Obama, Barroso and Van Rompuy. First is on Russia and Ukraine. Given that the U.S. has less to lose from economic sanctions against Russia, would it be appropriate to (inaudible) report for European allies for example in the realm of energy.

Second, you mentioned all three, the transatlantic trade and investment partnership. A lot of citizens have concerns. They fears that standards for environment protection or consumer protection might be at stake. How do you want to convince these citizens? Thank you very much.

OBAMA: With respect to sanctions, so far what we've seen is excellent coordination between the United States and Europe. I think on both sides of the Atlantic, there was recognition that in the initial incursion into Crimea, we had to take some very specific steps. And we did, identifying individuals that were in part responsible for those actions.