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122 Objects Are "The Most Credible Lead" So Far; 24 Dead, 170 Plus Unaccounted For In Slide; Despite Satellite Data, Son Of Missing Passenger Hopes Plane Not In Ocean; Best Lead Yet? Satellite Spots Big Debris Field

Aired March 26, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This special coverage continues here on CNN. We are almost at week three of false leads and conflicting theories in the hunt for this plane. This may change everything though. Take a look. A new satellite image showing a precise number, 122 objects, floating in the Southern Indian Ocean. Some appear to be big, maybe the size of a wing. Some appear to be much smaller here.

But this debris field spans a massive area, 150 square miles. As possible sightings increase, the search area was divided into these two sections here so you have the east and you have the west. So the U.S. P8 Poseidon is taking over the search in the west zone. As for the notion possibly that terrorists may have taken control of this plane, we did hear today from the defence secretary, Chuck Hagel, telling CNN the U.S. Is not ruling anything out.

Now back to the satellite picture, 122 objects are in one of the most hostile environments on earth, I mean, case in point, look at this video. The Southern Indian Ocean home to towering waves, swirling currents, winds that change direction like a pin ball.

So Florida State University oceanographer, Ian MacDonald joins me from Tallahassee. Ian McDonald, you're the pro here so let's throw the picture back up of the satellite image because to my untrained eye, I see a lot of little specks. What do you see?

IAN MACDONALD, OCEANOGRAPHY PROFESSOR, FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY: This is positive indication that the searchers are getting closer to the origin of the crash, but there are many uncertainties. There could be many objects that are floating in the ocean that are large or small that are completely unrelated to the crash. We know that in different parts of the ocean, the North Pacific, for example, there's what's called the garbage jire. There are many pieces of debris that have nothing to do with the crash. So the uncertainty of the origin of these objects puts a level of doubt into this.

BALDWIN: Let's take that a step further, you are talking about the jire really that ocean junk, right, so that's a possibility, one. Another possibility people brought up on Twitter is, I don't know, remnants from the Japan tsunami or pieces -- I know it is not a popular shipping channel, but perhaps something fallen off a ship. Are those all viable possibilities?

MCDONALD: Those are viable possibilities. What you have are two intersecting processes of uncertainty. One, we don't know exactly what this stuff is until the searchers get it in their hands and then we don't know where it originated in the ocean. So our best bet is to actually track back to the earliest sighting, which was the 16th of March, and then to run simulations about where objects would have traveled between the 16th and then the 8th when the crash occurred. So we need to back calculate where these objects may have come from and then hope that these objects were actually from the plane so that would zero in the search.

BALDWIN: But this is what strikes me, Ian, and you're the oceanographer, but when we see these pictures, you know, this part of the world. I mean, really just truly chaotic currents and the fact that despite that you see, I don't know if it is a debris field, but it is, you know, 122 distinct pieces, all in one general area, what could explain that they're all certainly not intact but floating together like that?

MACDONALD: As I said, I think this is a very positive indication and it probably is. Probably a lot of these things are from the airplane, but there could be objects that are not related to the airplane.

BALDWIN: The false positives that you referred to.

MACDONALD: The false positives, exactly. And once again, we're up against this problem of not really knowing very much about the ocean. This is a very remote region. It isn't studied by oceanographers. They don't look at it routinely with satellites unlike the North Atlantic or other regions, and we don't know much about the sea floor under this region. So the searchers are getting closer and we can hope there will be answers soon, but there's still a long way to go and there is still a great deal of uncertainty.

BALDWIN: Final question, given the level of uncertainty, I mean, of all places in the world that this plane could have hit water, is this like the worst possible place?

MACDONALD: Well, it gets worse as you go further south in this part of the world, that's for sure, but this is very challenging, so it could be farther from Australia, even more difficult for the planes to reach there, it could be closer to Antarctica and have worse currents. This is an extremely challenging environment and we have to be grateful for the service of searchers trying to close in on this and tell us what happened.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. Ian MacDonald, thank you so much for joining me.

Coming up, why we haven't seen any satellite images from specifically the United States. We will talk to some experts about that.

Also ahead, the absolute utter devastation, this catastrophe in the west. Scores of people still unaccounted for after the landslide, and now we're hearing folks there were warned, but went to great measures to stay. You will hear why.

Also ahead, dramatic new video of rescue of a 4-year-old little boy. Do not miss this. Stay with me. You're watching special CNN coverage.

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BALDWIN: The absolutely heart breaking search for survivors in Washington's Snohomish County extends and intensifies. Rescue teams found more bodies buried under the aftermath of Saturday's massive landslide, so the official death toll now, 16. Eight more bodies have been spotted in the mud. The thing is, search crews can't get to them. So many people still unaccounted for.

And to this video here, the rescue of that 4-year-old boy just released. Watch this with me here. This is when emergency crews managed to pull little Jacob Spillers out of the rubble that he once called home. His father and three siblings who are still inside are trapped. When state patrol officers first arrived on scene, they couldn't believe what they saw. Want you to listen here to the 911 call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are looking at a catastrophic event here. We have Whitman Road taken out by a slide. The river is backing up, upstream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Could this have been avoided? A 2010 report conducted in Snohomish County warned of landslides and potential danger here. This map from that very report showing the risky regions. Take a look, you will see more mauve colored markings. If you look closely in the upper right of the screen, that sizable color block is the town of Darrington.

So let's bring in the professional here, geologist, University of Washington professor, David Montgomery. So David, welcome to you. Let's get right to if we can the rescues because I mean, talk about the hazards that these crews are facing. I know you've said that this is really a nightmare scenario when you have this hill side made of silt and sand, it liquifies and spills and you have quick sand, do you not?

DAVID MONTGOMERY, GEOLOGIST: Yes. Essentially it is very similar to that. Getting your foot in it would be difficult, slick, hard to walk on. You couldn't ask for worse conditions to try and actually be conducting a rescue operation. It is very difficult conditions.

BALDWIN: Can you be specific? I mean, how do you even carry something like that out given what you're dealing with?

MONTGOMERY: Well, it would be hard to move through. Ideally it would dry out. That's not happening, the rain is not cooperating and there's a river contributing additional moisture into the area, makes it very difficult to move in and to actually be able to move around, to mobilize, and to be able to conduct any work. Simply hard to even move. Just the worst conditions you could imagine for trying to do that in.

BALDWIN: Worst conditions. We know as far as the slide, it is the most violent, damaging. There have been slides there for decades. I understand people there have been warned. In fact, early you're today, the county EMA director defended comments attributed to him about this area being safe. Take a listen.

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JOHN PENNINGTON, EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DIRECTOR: Let me clarify the word safe and what I was referring to. In 2006, there was the original slide. We all now know that. It was a pretty decent size slide that affected the community pretty good. A lot of mitigation effort that into that river after that fact and I'm talking about millions of dollars of work. The objective was to shore up the side and to allow control of the channel so the channel of the river didn't move anywhere else.

Part of it also that it would essentially catch small landslides slipping off on one side or the other that would have come through. That was in 2006. We have been through, good grief, a lot of floods, and that community felt safe because of that mitigation effort. It was extensive. People knew this was a landslide prone area. Sometimes big events just happen. Sometimes large events that nobody sees happen and this event happened, and I want to find out why.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So to you, I will pose that question, David Montgomery, why if they had this mitigation after the 2006 slide, why now?

MONTGOMERY: Well, the proximal cause was all the rainfall that we've had. The mitigation efforts that went into that site as I understand that were to attempt to keep the river from further cutting the tow out of the landslide. The ancient landslide that was a piece of that re-activated was immense. The ability to engineer one's way out of the potential hazard there is probably just not viable, not feasible. So efforts were made to try to prevent the river from further exacerbating a naturally very unstable slope.

That slope had failed many times since the 1940s, as I understand it, every decade or two. Unfortunately, the slide that happened this time was bigger, involved more hill slope, was more destructive, went farther across the river, and obliterated the farthest side of the flood plain. That was much bigger than the slides that had happened there before.

But there is -- if you look on the laser altimetry data, there's evidence of even much larger slides in geologic path. So this tragic occurrence is an example of how that someday that geologists may warn about may happen, can actually come to be today.

BALDWIN: Whether people should have been there, whether people should remain there, all up in question after this tremendously horrible landslide. David Montgomery, thank you so much for joining me.

Coming up next, we will take you back to our special coverage of this missing Flight 370. Grief stricken family members struggling to deal with lack of answers. You're about to hear one man's frustration with officials, his emotional plea, and why he isn't believing the Malaysian government next.

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BALDWIN: As the days continue to mount, Flight 370 vanished, so has the frustration for so many of the families who have not seen their loved one in close to three weeks now. For one son, this day has brought a tipping point. He is breaking his silence to members of the media and he talked with our own Pauline Chiou about why many of these relatives are absolutely outraged.

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STEVEN WANG, SON OF FLIGHT 370 PASSENGER: Well, me and most of the relatives here are seeking for the truth, the truth about what happened to the plane and the truth about where it was. That's what we want.

PAULINE CHIOU, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Why don't you believe the data and the answers from the Malaysian government? Because you have said time and time again that you believe the Malaysian government is actually hiding something.

WANG: Yes.

CHIOU: Why do you believe that?

WANG: Well, because the conclusion is just by a theory, just by analysis from the satellite data. There are no direct evidence that shows that they saw some of the things from the plane, nothing found. So I don't believe any such kind of conclusion.

CHIOU: Now the data from the satellite company and from the U.K. aviation authority has been collected and the Malaysian authorities have taken that into account. And when you take into account also the amount of fuel that the plane would have had at that point, they're saying the logical conclusion is that it was in this part of the southern corridor in the southern third Indian Ocean. Why is that not good enough for you?

WANG: Because it is still a theory. It is just still an analysis. No one have seen anything, and they just said where it should be, where it might be, and it should turn back or it should -- and they said that it is based on the basically speed for the whole theory, but if the plane tried to hide, I don't believe it.

CHIOU: Let's talk about your level of hope. A few days ago when you and I talked you had said that you're realistic, but at the same time you feel that most families are sort of 80 percent ready for bad news, 20 percent hoping for good news still. Today where do you stand in terms of hope? WANG: Well, to me I think it might be 5 percent that there is still hope and -- but most of the families don't believe that it might be bad news. Most of the families still think that there will be hope.

CHIOU: When you say 5 percent hope for yourself, hope for what?

WANG: Yes. That it was still maybe negotiating by the hijacker and the government or something like that and they're just -- they're just talking with some of the hijackers or something like that, that they're still negotiating. If they make a deal, maybe our family back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Just gives you some indication as to what these families are going through and thinking here, day 18, 19. Pauline Chiou, our correspondent there, with that interview this morning. Malaysia's prime minister explained that he decided to make his official announcement Monday because he did not want the government to be seen as purposely hiding information. In an address to parliament in Kuala Lumpur, he said the statement was based on, quote, "The most conclusive information we have."

Coming up next, though, we heard today from the U.S. secretary of defense saying they cannot yet rule out terrorism. We will talk to an expert, see what he thinks about that.

Also ahead, what are the chances that this plane could actually still be intact somewhere in the ocean? What would that tell us about the cause? Stay with me. You're watching CNN special live coverage.

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BALDWIN: Back to the new developments today in the search for the missing plane. In a matter of hours, military planes and ships will scour the Southern Indian Ocean, hoping to find these 122 objects spotted in the new satellite images by a French defense firm. And it could be, I say that, could, maybe be part of the missing plane here.

We heard all kinds of theories about how the plane could have disappeared, terrorism included in that list. Just a short time ago, the U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel confirmed he has not ruled out that possibility.

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CHUCK HAGE, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I don't think at this point we can rule anything in or out. I think we have to continue to as much as we are and you know the United States continues to stay committed. We have aircraft in the area working out of Malaysia and Perth. As you know, we moved two of our most sophisticated locaters to the Perth area, so until we have more information we don't know.

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BALDWIN: Let's talk about what he said. Les Abend rejoining me, CNN aviation analyst and 777 pilot. So when you hear this from the U.S. defense secretary, not ruling out terrorism here, we are almost to week three, what is your reaction to that?

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: My reaction, that's a smart statement. I am not ruling out anything, I'm not stuck to a particular theory. I know I have written an article with regards to the scenario of fire and smoke, but there are holes in that theory, as there is in a hijacking theory also.

BALDWIN: OK. Let me run through a couple questions that we have been getting from viewers, and combing the Twitter. Here is one from a number of viewers, wondering what are the chances, Les, the plane could be intact somewhere in the ocean?

ABEND: Highly improbable, highly improbable, even if the airplane touched down in a controlled fashion, with pilots at the controls, waves, it is very difficult. This is not a Hudson River type scenario. This is, you know, a scenario with major swells, and if it did touch down, we'd be thinking about survivors because the rafts would be deployed and we would be in a whole other situation because the rafts have emergency locator transmitters on them.

BALDWIN: Next question, obviously, a lot of people are wondering and wanting to find the bright orange data recorder, known as the black box. I know three weeks into this, they're bolted into the tail. They're aluminum, in the tail, able to withstand a head on crash. What about the question, why not make black boxes so they can float, Les?

ABEND: Well, then you would probably not be able to put it in the structural part of the airplane that would protect it. I think there's more. There's better ways that we have talked about with reference to having a streaming data type system that we can always locate the airplane, very much like we operate in the North Atlantic.

BALDWIN: Les Abend, thank you so much, CNN aviation analyst. We'll talk again I am sure, sir. Thank you. Now this.