Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Searching for Wreckage; North and South Korea Exchange Fire

Aired March 31, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And here we go, hour two, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And in the urgent search for Flight 370, we just learned Malaysian officials have now changed their account of the cockpit's last communication. For weeks, as we have been reporting, they had the transcript and they have not corrected the widely reported belief that those final few words from the cockpit were "All right, good night."

But today we are now told the final words were actually, "Good night, Malaysian 370." As for the search, the ship carrying a U.S. ping detector departed today en route now to the search zone, 3:00 in the morning their time. But they are working on borrowed time, because the black box pinger could run out of battery some time next week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CMDR. MARK MATTHEWS, U.S. NAVY: Typically, the batteries last for 30 days. Usually, they last a little bit longer, and that's what we are trying to find. But what is critical is that the teams that are out there searching for the surface debris, they get good position data on that, and they feed it back to the oceanographers to help us determine a probable point of impact for where the aircraft went in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, you hear what he just said? He said this probable point of impact, crash site first is needed before the real search can begin.

High hopes were pinned on a sighting of bright orange objects. But they turned out to be, look at this, fishing equipment and a dead jelly fish. That's it so far. Australia's prime minister insists there is no timetable, but day after day is wearing on these flight crews assigned to this particular mission.

So, we go to correspondent Kyung Lah Live in Perth, Australia, 3:00 in the morning your time, Kyung. And we know the ocean shield, the ship has only days to find the black boxes before the juice potentially runs out. Then what?

KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, then they keep looking.

And what happens to that particular sea vessel is, OK, let's say they don't find the debris field for the plane. It's going to be part of the sea vessel search. There a number of ships in the search area, crisscrossing the area back and forth and checking some of the objects that are spotted by the planes.

It's going to become a part of that, even though it has this high-tech equipment on it, because, as you point out, Brooke, until you have a debris field, you can't use this equipment. If becomes part of the regular fleet -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: We have learned a lot about also this equipment, the ships, the TPL, everything that is being involved, but we know Malaysia has also asked for more, more resources to help find the plane. Will they get them?

LAH: It certainly doesn't appear they will be losing any resources. We don't know if there will be more ships or more planes coming in from other countries, but if this past week is any indication, the resources are not going to drop.

They're only going to increase. And what we have heard from the prime minister as recently as yesterday, when he spoke here at the air base, is that his intention is to keep putting resources on this, at least in this next week, where you hear that clock ticking on the pinger, on whether or not the black boxes will be emitting those pings, certainly more resources at least from his viewpoint.

He wants them here.

BALDWIN: OK. Kyung Lah, thank you so much in Perth right now for us.

Talk about going against the odds. A Boeing 777, about 240 feet long, the search area, more than 100,000 square miles, the size more or less of New Mexico. Here's what sea operations specialist Tim Taylor told me in the last hour about how tough it will be just to try to find the plane before the batteries on the black box run out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM TAYLOR, PRESIDENT OF TIBURON SUBSEA SERVICES: It's such a long shot. It's like looking for your cell phone flown out of the window of your car on 95 from here to Florida, New York to Florida.

(CROSSTALK)

TAYLOR: ... by yourself.

BALDWIN: I don't like those odds.

TAYLOR: It's not good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The odds only worsen when the black boxes, right, the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder when they stop pinging.

So, joining me now, CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo, a former inspector general at the U.S. Department of Transportation who now represents victims and families airplane disasters. Joining me here in studio, CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest. Let's get to the search in a moment.

But, Richard Quest, since I'm sitting here and we are talking so much, so much for multiple weeks about the "All right, good night." Now we know the phraseology was slightly different. You say that is relatively insignificant, but the big deal is the fact they didn't correct it weeks ago.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and the reason you don't correct every little bit of reporting or every little thing that you hear in an investigation. You don't go through that, because otherwise the investigators would have nothing else but to do but to continue doing it.

But those words, "All right, good night," took on a folklore of their own. Not only that. "The Daily Telegraph" printed what it said was the transcript and even though, even though at the time the Malaysians said that is not incorrect -- that was incorrect, they didn't take the opportunity then...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: To say, this is what it was.

QUEST: There is not a huge difference, "All right, good night" or "Good night, Malaysian 370." One is more correct and still not perfect. But that is why I think you have to sort of say that this is rather, I don't know, it's frustrating and it's infuriating. They should have taken the opportunity to correct it sooner.

BALDWIN: Do you think they, Malaysia, should release to the public this transcript?

QUEST: No, I don't.

BALDWIN: Ongoing investigation, not necessary?

QUEST: Let's go back to Asiana in San Francisco.

In Asiana, Deborah Hersman, the head of the NTSB, she did say within a week or two that there was nothing on the -- she quoted from the cockpit voice recorder transcript, but the transcript itself was not actually released for another six months. It is part of the investigation.

It's too soon to reveal it in its raw state. What I do think we should be looking at, and I think we will get before too long is a so- called statement of facts, the first interim report, a preliminary report. Call it what you will.

BALDWIN: OK.

QUEST: We are getting to the point now -- and Mary, who has much experience about these things than myself -- but we are getting to the point where the investigation is going to have to provide the first document of what they know. BALDWIN: Mary, what would that entail potentially?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, usually, what happens is you do a docket and on this docket, you post several relevant kinds of documents.

One is always the transcript, but this is a typewritten transcript. It's never the verbal, it's never the oral recording. A typewritten transcript. You posts things such as you have the factors of the plane, you have the survivability factors. In this case, there wouldn't necessarily be any. You have human factors and you have aircraft performance and you have all these different working groups and they all post their relevant documents.

And those are posted just before the first hearing, which is a fact- finding hearing. That's how it usually goes.

BALDWIN: OK.

Let me ask you this because we have been listening to these daily briefings from the acting transportation minister in Malaysia. And so one question was finally asked, which was what if you never find the plane. And his response was, we have a plan in place.

Mary, what might that entail?

SCHIAVO: I would assume that the plan in place that they would have would be to continue search with -- if they haven't found debris, to continue to search for a reasonable time there after with a side-scan sonar and continue to look beyond the 30 or 40 days for that.

Beyond that, what they will probably do is issue some sort of fact- finding report if it goes on for some time. I don't think they will give up right away. I just don't think they can.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: How long can they go, though? How long does this last?

SCHIAVO: A couple of years.

BALDWIN: A couple of years?

SCHIAVO: The work can. They can't search the ocean for a couple of years, but the work on the case can last a couple of years.

And look what we have already. New information comes out here, there, and everywhere. First, now we have the transcript corrected. Today, they adopted the policy that when one pilot comes out, a flight attendant goes in the cockpit. That has been policy here for years and it's not necessarily for terrorism.

It's because, what if the pilot in the cockpit gets sick or passes out? The flight attendant is there to let the other pilot back in. There is lots of information still coming out.

BALDWIN: Did you want to jump in?

QUEST: Yes. I think what will happen is once the weather makes it so that the winter arrives, and they can no longer search, they regroup. They don't all just go home.

The assets may leave, but the working party regroups, and everybody then does very detailed work. We had this with 447. We have it consistently whenever there are these incidents. The working parties look again and again and they refine so that they get around to doing it when they go back out to searching, because there should be debris. There's no question about it. There should be something there.

If that plane went into the ocean -- I don't whether Mary agrees, but if that plane went into the ocean, there should be something. It really is just a question of finding it.

BALDWIN: But what do you make of the fact that now we know that this towed pinger locator is going to be heading into the region, which to me that is listening for the pings of the black box, correct?

QUEST: Correct.

BALDWIN: So if they are looking for the black box, don't you first need to find the debris to then...

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Ah. Read the statement of what they said last night. And what they said was, we want that pinger locator in position...

BALDWIN: For after we find the debris

QUEST: ... so the moment we find the debris, we can switch it on and get to it. We don't have to waste two or three days -- or not waste -- we don't have to spend two or three days waiting for it to get there.

BALDWIN: No, I'm sure families would probably use the word waste.

Mary, you agree?

SCHIAVO: Oh, I agree. I think it was very wise just to deploy assets and get them going. I think now that additional requests have come in to the United States for more assistance and assets, I think Australia taking over and setting up the joint task force was just brilliant. That's what they needed to do.

BALDWIN: That's good. They will be ready to roll.

Mary Schiavo and Richard Quest, thank you both so much.

Coming up, we will take you back inside the virtual room for a view you won't see anywhere else of the most difficult area here of the search both above and below water. Stand by for that.

Also ahead, is North Korea taking advantage of America's focus on Crimea? Kim Jong-un's military firing shots at South Korea, and the South has responded. It's a tense situation unfolding right now. Stay right here. This is CNN's special coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back to CNN's special coverage. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And the search for Flight 370 resumed today under decent weather conditions. But nothing new was found. The U.S. is sending its pinger locator to sea, but it's of no use really until they found the debris, as Richard Quest was just explaining.

Let's go to Tom Foreman with more on just the difficulties of these searches.

Tom, we are talking about not just below water, but above water as well.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There really are two different searches going on here, Brooke, if you think about it.

Right now, the one that matters is the one above water. The one above water is based on conjecture, not so much on clues. Look at all the different places that this thing has spread out to over time. We had all of that up in the general place where the plane disappeared.

Then we had the north and the south arc. And now we have moved down here to where we have Perth over here and then some distance over here, whether it's 1,200 or 1,400 miles, depending on which area you are looking at. We have had all of these areas that have been narrowed down.

Every one of these, including the latest one up here, the red one up here, which has now shifted again in its locations, slightly off to a different location, are all huge, anywhere from 120,000 down to around 95,000 square miles. They keep moving them.

There is simply no way to be doing a very thorough search before they move to the next one, because it takes too long to cover that area. But, again, all of this has to be based on conjecture, because they don't have any physical clues to tell them where to look.

And once you get the physical clues, Brooke, that's when you're going to talk about moving beyond everything on the surface; on the surface, you have got these airplanes, you have got the ships, you have got everything that you have to look at on the surface where you can cover a lot of ground, Brooke. But before you can go underwater, then, oh, boy, does it get complicated then. When you go underwater, it's a different ball game -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about that. Let's talk about we know the fact they are bringing this towed pinger locator out which would be dragged behind this vessel once they find the debris. They have this pinger listening for those clicking, the pings from the black box. So much of the search area is untapped, is it not?

FOREMAN: Yes. It's untapped. Here's the difference.

When you are above the water, you can talk about at least doing a reasonable cursory examination of 80,000, 90,000 square miles a day with all those boats and all those planes. You have a chance. It's not a great search, but it's a reasonable something.

When you get down into this environment, Brooke, you're talking about towing these devices along at a land speed, if you were really moving, of maybe five miles an hour. And you have a range of two miles that and two miles that way in terms of what you can search. Start doing the math here. If you went 24 hours, and you had perfect range everywhere, around the clock, every 24 hours, you would basically eat up about 500 square miles.

If you have a search area of 91,000 or 100,000 square miles, how long does it take to get through it at 500 square miles a day?

(CROSSTALK)

FOREMAN: Months and months and months.

The search process, the second search, the underwater search is so fundamentally different than the above-water search that they don't dare enter this environment unless they had some success up here. You and I both know up there they have yet to have any success. They have covered a lot of water, but they haven't found anything yet. Conjecture up there, you must have clues to come down there.

BALDWIN: Tom Foreman, sounds daunting, doesn't it? Thank you so much for that virtual view here of the search area, both above and below.

Coming up next, a couple on board had just gotten married. The groom saved up for his first trip abroad. CNN sits down for their family for the emotional look at the couple's final days and the worst moment since their disappearance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: It is getting loud again on the Korean Peninsula, very loud.

That is live fire from the South Koreans, hundreds of mortar rounds fired from land out over the Yellow Sea, and now watch this. The South here, you can see holding amphibious drills as well. All of this happened after North Korea fired hundreds of shells into the very same disputed waters. Nothing has hit anyone so far.

But let's talk to Bill Richardson. This man knows North Korea, among other things. He's a former roving ambassador and HARRIS: dealt on occasion with the reclusive North.

Mr. Ambassador, nice to have you on.

BILL RICHARDSON (D), FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We are certainly accustomed to the North and the South grumbling at one another, but this seems louder than usual. Why is that?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think what North Korea is saying is, number one, hey, international community, we are around. We know you are preoccupied with Ukraine and Syria. But we're also around.

The second message, I believe, is to the U.S. and South Korea. We want to have a dialogue. We want to talk. But what the U.S. is saying to North Korea and South Korea saying the same thing is, yes, but what has to be on the table is your limiting your nuclear deterrents, your nuclear weapons, your rocket launches, your missile tests.

And North Korea is trying to crave attention. They want attention right now. This is dangerous, though, because these are hundreds of shells and a provocation can be a trip wire for more involvement by the surrounding countries. This is serious.

BALDWIN: So if you are saying basically they're saying to the world, look at me, look at me. When we talk about a possible dialogue, sir, I have heard that it is said, by engaging in this, North Korea, like you're pointing out, if they're crying out for attention, then you have the U.S. president, Barack Obama, I have heard it said some people are saying he is distracted. What do you make of that?

RICHARDSON: I don't think that is the case, Brooke.

BALDWIN: No.

RICHARDSON: I think we are capable of focusing on a lot of issues.

What President Obama has said and the administration said, and I think rightly so, is, look, we are just not going to get into a dialogue with you unless you want to terminate or reduce your nuclear weapons. We're not just going to talk.

The North Koreans also have Kenneth Bae, an American detainee, there. This is a North Korean effort to get attention, worldwide attention. The problem though, Brooke, is the new leader, Kim Jong-un, we don't know where he is coming from, but these are bad signs that it seems that he is playing up to his military, to his hard-liners to send a message to South Korea, don't mess with us, because these artillery, live artillery shells provocative by the North Koreans is a bad signal. It means they are catering to the hard-liners in their government.

BALDWIN: If not everyone can come to the table because of the we will call it maybe stubbornness and intransigence on behalf of this new leader, then what? Because we remember what happened in 2010. And there were deaths then. Who knows if the next time this could hit a town. Then what I guess is my question?

RICHARDSON: Well, then what is up to China, because I think they have the leverage over North Korea. They provide food and fuel and all kinds of assistance.

But, sometimes, the North Koreans don't listen to them. But I think it's up to China to say to them, look, you have got to stop this, these provocations. It affects our region, our part of Northeast Asia. Calm down. Get into a dialogue with South Korea at least to stop these hostilities.

I don't think it is going to escalate more, because this is a familiar pattern of the North Koreans, Brooke, at the same time, since we don't know about this new leader, Kim Jong-un, he seems to be catering to the military, the hard-liners that like this back-and-forth militarily. That's not a good sign.

BALDWIN: OK. Yes. They seem to like the noise, don't they?

Bill Richardson, Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much.

RICHARDSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We will take you back to our special coverage here of Flight 370.

And my next guest says, there actually eight lessons to be learned from this new mystery, including why focusing on terrorism can actually obscure other threats in the skies.

Also ahead, the real reason for the majority of plane crashes might surprise you. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)