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Actual Last Words Revealed From MH370; Black Box Batteries Could Run Out In Five Days; Source: 370's Turn Considered "Criminal Act"; Interview With Rep. Tim Murphy; G.M. Chief To Testify On Fatal Ignition Flaw

Aired April 01, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin with the latest developments in the search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. This morning, finally, Malaysian Airlines has released the full transcript of the plane's last communication with air traffic control before that plane vanished.

Officials are backtracking a bit. They now say it is unclear if the pilot, the co-pilot or someone else, rather, said the final sign-off. Plus, sources telling CNN the jet's sudden turn off course is now being treated as a criminal act.

CNN's Jim Clancy has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After weeks of delay, officials in Malaysia released the transcript of communications with the control tower confirming, no one in the cockpit ever said, "All right, good night." Instead the final voice transmission sent at 1:19 a.m. actually was "Good night, Malaysian 370." At times, over past weeks, Malaysian authorities said, "All right, good night," were the final words the co-pilot said before they lost communication.

AZHARUDDIN ABDUL RAHMAN, DIRECTOR GENERAL OF MALAYSIAN CIVIL AVIATION: It was 1:19 when we got the last transition from the cockpit that says, all right, good night.

CLANCY: Malaysia's transport minister actually offered the revised account of those last words Monday. Authorities gave no explanation for the discrepancy between the two quotes. A CNN aviation expert says the new language is routine, not a sign that anything untoward occurred aboard the flight.

The rest reads like a normal cockpit transcript, someone saying good day and good morning while the plane was taxiing. During the flight's takeoff at 12:42 a.m., someone is saying, departure, Malaysia 370. About 15 minutes into its flight, another voice transmission, Malaysian 370, maintaining flight level 350. That would be a cruising altitude of 35,000 feet.

And then just before the final words recorded, Malaysia 370, contact Ho Chi Minh, good night." This is what Malaysian government officials say both their investigators and the international team assembled here remain of the opinion the plane's maneuvers were the deliberate actions of someone aboard the aircraft.

The transcript reveals above all else that it appears this was a routine flight until moments before its mysterious disappearance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Jim Clancy, reporting. We want to get more insight into that conversation that usually happens between the cockpit and air traffic control. CNN's Martin Savidge joins me live from inside that 777 flight simulator in Canada. Of course, he is along with Mitchell Casado. Welcome to both of you.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So what is the normal protocol as the plane is preparing to take off?

SAVIDGE: Well, you know, we have been poring over this transcript, Mitchell and I, and reading all the lines that have been said. Does this fit the normal protocol that you would anticipate for an aircraft that is departing and going off to Beijing?

MITCHELL CASADO, PILOT TRAINER, 777 COCKPIT SIMULATOR: Yes, it does, very much. It's very normal. Nothing on here that is untoward in any way. There are a couple of things, not exact text book, but that's also very normal in day to day operations.

SAVIDGE: Just so we understand who is talking to who. The conversation begins initially with air traffic control and then it seems to go to a ground control and ground control is essentially telling them how to navigate to get to the runway and get ready for takeoff. All of that you read seems fairly normal.

CASADO: Yes, yes.

SAVIDGE: Then, we get to the point where they are cleared for takeoff and they begin communicating to whom.

CASADO: They are cleared for takeoff. Once you get in the air, you are on tower frequency during the takeoff and then you are sent to departure control. So that's very normal.

SAVIDGE: Yes, and all of that all the way through. We come to the final transmissions, it seems, very, very normal. The only thing, you know, that I will point out and this could really be parsing. I'm just scrolling it now. The very last thing. You have ATC that says Malaysian 370 contact Ho Chi Minh. I noted there was no repeat, which had been common, repeating the order given. There is no repeat of the order given.

CASADO: They didn't read back the frequency. The air traffic controller didn't use standard phraseology exactly the way they should have either. So it is not uncommon. In this case, up to that point, he did use standard phraseology. There, he didn't. So that's correct.

SAVIDGE: Not a red flag for you?

CASADO: Not a red flag but something to keep in mind.

SAVIDGE: So Carol, I mean, it is great to have this transcript. It really is, to finally have a hard copy to look at and go through. Right now, we don't see anything that tells us this flight was headed to disappear.

COSTELLO: Well, the fact that originally, Malaysian investigators told us the final words were "all right, good night" and it turned out to be "All right, Malaysian Flight 370." A lot of people are trying to read something into that. Is there anything to that or did investigators just misspeak? What do you read into that, Mitchell?

CASADO: Well, from what I understand, this transcript has been translated from one language to another. So it could just be in the translation, things got a little messed up. But between "all right, good night" and what actually was said, there is nothing there that is a red flag for me.

COSTELLO: The transcript doesn't indicate whether the pilot or co- pilot spoke the last words. Who usually does speak the last words?

CASADO: Well, in normal operations, we switch. While on board, the captain might be flying and Beijing to Kuala Lumpur, they alternate so the first officer will be flying. So we have the pilot flying and the pilot not flying. I don't know who it was, but it would be the pilot not flying the airplane.

SAVIDGE: So the person not actually at the controls would be the one communicating on the radio.

CASADO: Yes, that's right.

SAVIDGE: No way to figure out who that is.

COSTELLO: Well, Malaysian investigators initially said it was the co- pilot that uttered those last words. Now, they say they are not sure. It seems to me that would be pretty easy to determine.

CASADO: Yes. If you read or if you listen to the control tapes, you could just tell by the voice.

SAVIDGE: I would assume they have this recorded somewhere and someone could easily listen and discern. There were a couple of times that the transmission was reported as garbled, whether they were hearing it absolutely clear, we can't say. It should be something that somebody with an analysis could determine.

COSTELLO: So many questions we can't answer. We are sorry about that. But thanks for helping us out, Martin Savidge, Mitchell Casado. We appreciate it.

Of course, all of these developments happening as the Australian ship, "Ocean Shield" is chugging towards the search area with that ping detector. We have less than five days before until the batteries on Flight 370's locator beacon start to die. Search teams have until this weekend to detect the underwater pings in an area the size of New Mexico.

CNN's Will Ripley has more on what it will be like for crews searching for that missing airliner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have moved about 12 miles off of shore here in the Indian Ocean to give you a sense of what the weather conditions can be like. Believe it or not, this is considered a clear day. We have swells. We have waves. You have to hold on to something on the boat just to stay standing. Captain Ray Ruby, I can't believe that this is a clear day.

CAPT. RAY RUBY, CHARTER BOAT PILOT: What you saw last time was like glass. This is just a normal day. I feel sorry for the guys on the "Shield" heading out to the area. We are at idol, running along about 5 knots. Those guys, every wave is straight over the top.

RIPLEY: Even for a large ship like the "Ocean Shield."

RUBY: It will just be over the top at three times the speed we are doing.

RIPLEY: How large are these waves?

RUBY: These are only about 8-1/2 with the wind chop on top. They are not bad. When the guys get out further, they will be up to five, six feet of waves plus swells.

RIPLEY: Literally the waves that are the size of many buildings here. You certainly have to hold on. You deal with windy conditions as well. Imagine if there were a storm moving in and all of the sudden, your visibility drops down to zero. You could have a ship very close to you that you can't even see in just a matter of seconds. It's really incredible the conditions out here. They are conditions that the "Ocean Shield" is facing right now as they move towards the search zone. Will Ripley, CNN, off the coast of Western Australia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Thank you, Will. As the hunt goes on for that missing jetliner, Malaysian government sources think a criminal act might be behind the mystery. How can they be so sure? Mary Schiavo, a CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general with the U.S. Department of Transportation and Tom Fuentes is a CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director. Welcome to both of you.

COSTELLO: So Mary, let's just talk about those newly released transcripts for just a moment. They seemed so innocuous and it makes you wonder why Malaysian authorities didn't release them before.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Exactly. They are innocuous. Just last week they told the families at a meeting of the families that they would not release them. They said that they were sealed. They were secret and they would not release the tapes. They would not release the radar data and they would not release something mysterious we haven't heard about yet, some surveillance tapes from the airport. What do they do?

They turn around and release them. So I think they have created a firestorm out of what's pretty straightforward tapes. Now we learn that it is in question. Who said them? It is very simple, you know, investigation. You bring people in for questioning who are familiar with their voices and you play them the tapes. That's admissible in any court. I don't know why they are not sure who said the words unless it doesn't match either of their voices.

COSTELLO: Now that would be something. That would really be something, Tom, in light of the fact that CNN sources are saying Malaysian investigators believe this was a criminal act.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That's right, Carol. You know, none of the various possibilities have ever been completely ruled out, even the mechanical. Even the possibility of poison gas incapacitating the pilots and the plane was on autopilot and continued on or this possibility of, yes, a pilot turned that plane on purpose.

But was it the pilot doing it because he wanted to commit suicide or because he wanted to try to save the plane if it was having a mechanical problem or did an intruder get in there and make them do it?

You know, we don't know. They haven't released the actual cockpit recorders and they may not. It has taken them this long just to release the transcript which, again, as Mary said, is completely innocuous. There is no reason to create a firestorm and three weeks later, continue to pour gasoline on your own storm.

COSTELLO: It is just so frustrating, Mary. Is anything clearer in your mind through all of this, it's been three weeks now?

SCHIAVO: Well, things that could be very, very clear like this transcript and who said it. By the way, on the cockpit voice recorder if it is ever found, you can tell which pilot is saying it. There are mics by each of them. It is easy to tell on the CVR. Another reason to have streaming data from the airplane. They have made things less clear that could be very clear. This is pretty straightforward.

Somebody at the airline, people who work with these two pilots could tell who the voices are. It would be very straightforward, release the radar. There is no reason not to have that and give that to the families. Then, we have to get on and talk about what this clue was about some sort of evidence from the airport.

COSTELLO: What do you mean about that?

SCHIAVO: They told the families they weren't going to get three things because they were sealed. One was these tapes. One was the radar data and one was some sort of security and surveillance data from the airport. Maybe it is the pilots going through security. We have already seen that tape about three weeks ago, which would fall in line with things that are sealed and aren't sealed. That was left unexplained.

COSTELLO: OK, so in light of that, Tom, I mean, is that why these sources are telling us that Malaysian investigators think that this was a criminal act?

FUENTES: I don't think that is why. The video would include everybody going through the hallways at the airport, going through security, going through the ticket counters, the outer perimeter security, the gates and access by the various gasoline trucks and caters that would be coming and going, approaching that aircraft and having access.

There are a lot of videos recording data at every airport. It is common which ones they want to release, none so far except for the pilots going through the machines. Much of this is very simple and could easily be cleared up instead of adding to the mystery.

COSTELLO: It makes you want to beat your head against the wall, doesn't it? Mary Schiavo, Tom Fuentes, thanks as always. We'll have more on the investigations to Flight 370 in a minute.

But still to come in the NEWSROOM, General Motors is facing heated criticism for waiting more than a decade to recall cars with a deadly design flaw. Today, the company's CEO will answer questions at a hearing on Capitol Hill. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We'll have more on the missing plane in just a minute. But first, lawmakers were set to grill General Motors' Chief Mary Barra on Capitol Hill today. Right now, on the capitol steps lawmakers are holding a news conference with families of victims, that's Congressman Henry Waxman from California. They are outraged along with these families. They want to know why General Motors waited more than a decade to recall 2.2 million vehicles with a design flaw that proved to be deadly.

We are talking about faulty ignition switches dating back to 2004, which can turn off the car, disable air bags, power steering and even the anti-lock brakes. Thirteen deaths are linked to this defect. Today's hearing will be held by the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee for Oversight and Investigations.

Joining me now is the chairman of that subcommittee, Congressman Tim Murphy. Welcome, Congressman.

REPRESENTATIVE TIM MURPHY (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Good to be with you.

COSTELLO: It is nice to have you here. What do you want to hear from Mary Barra today?

MURPHY: I would like to hear why they accepted an ignition switching system that was below their own specs and why they then took that switching system once they figured out they ought to change it and put new ones in new cars and didn't replace the old ones in the old cars, why they even kept the same part number that was clearly different. There were a lot of problems that occurred here with it in GM.

What I don't understand is why people were not communicating with one another across the waves in GM and up and down the chain of command and worse yet, why the federal government didn't pick up on this twice? Twice, NHTSA was doing investigations and each time said, nowhere to go. Why weren't they asking questions? I mean, that's what they are supposed to be doing, looking out for the safety of people.

COSTELLO: It is mind-boggling to think about how this happened. General Motors admits knowing about this defect in 2004 and they had a fix for it a couple of years later, but they didn't fix the problem. Why would that be?

MURPHY: Well, we don't know. I mean, were people not communicating this to one another. What kind of corporate culture was there within G.M.? Where they didn't have this?

MURPHY: Did the impending bankruptcy have anything to do with these problems occurring too? Did they have the right personnel? Were there changeovers? Did they have continuity? Are there people not want to hear bad news because they were so concerned about the finances? All those are big what if questions. But somehow it sounds like they were making some sort of a financial decision when it said it didn't make sense in the business case. We don't know what that means. It is another question we are going to ask Mary Barra.

COSTELLO: You mentioned General Motors went into bankruptcy. The company got a bailout in 2009. Do you think that could have played a role in an alleged cover-up of some kind?

MURPHY: I don't know. The federal government also put people on the board of directors of G.M. who I don't think ever made cars before. Do we have the right people in charge there? Were there people that had information they were not encouraged to pass it up and down the chain of command. Big questions we have here. At the same time, why wasn't NHTSA, the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration looking at these issues too? Big gaps in this whole system. A true failure to communicate.

COSTELLO: It is possible that Mary Barra will not answer many questions at least with a lot of specifics because there are legal issues at play here.

MURPHY: Sure. I mean, I'm sure lawyers are saying, be careful what you say. I understand she has taken over as the new head of GM, but she was there before. Her responsibility is to find out what occurred. This hearing today will not be the end of it. Report back to us. The same thing. There will be a new head of NHTSA testifying today who he, himself, took over a couple of months ago. Neither one of these scenarios is going to give comfort to the American public until each one takes responsibility, finds what the problems were and reports back what they are going to do to change this. COSTELLO: The amount of cars, the number of cars that GM is recalling is mind-boggling, what, 2.2 million cars. They include all kinds of General Motors products. So far, we know that 13 deaths can be attributed to this defect. Could there be more?

MURPHY: There may be more as people see these stories and bring up questions of old accidents. There may be a lot more damage reports of cars with accidents where there were injuries and no fatalities. In all these cases, I'm sure people will be stepping up to give us more information.

This will give us more clues of what's taking place. One of the things I would like to know from the people who talk about these things. Do they ever even see these warnings that came out from the federal agency and from GM, don't put too many car keys on your key ring, that borders on the absurd to tell people that's what they ought to do to protect their life and safety. But all these things we'll look at together.

COSTELLO: Congressman Murphy, I appreciate it. Thanks so much for being with me.

MURPHY: Thank you. We'll stay on this story.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much. Still come in the NEWSROOM, if or when crews find any Flight 370 debris in the ocean, the search for answers under water will be even more daunting. We'll look at the search for a sunken ship that took decades.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The ongoing hunt for Flight 370 is not the first time an extended search has taken place off Australia's west coast. Experts, for example, they were able to find a ship that sank in World War II. The problem is it took decades to find. Atika Shubert has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are the first images of the "HMS Sydney" more than 60 years after sinking in battle with all 645 on board lost at sea. This was taken in 2008 off the coast of Western Australia. The same waters the Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is believed to have gone down.

MICHAEL MCCARTHY, MARITIME HISTORIAN/ARCHAEOLOGIST: The sadness on board to see those images is going to be matched if that occurs in this case.

SHUBERT: Michael McCarthy was on the team that found the Sydney after more than 25 years of searching. He cease eerie similarities in the search for Flight 370.

MCCARTHY: You have an enormous area where it could be or might not be. You have the similar depth of water and similar emotions. SHUBERT: But the search today has the advantage of technology. If satellite images and search planes could find debris from the plane in time, the flight data recorder should be sending out a signal. The search for HAMS Sydney shows even without that signal wrecks can still be found using sonar scans. It takes time. He describes the process.

MCCARTHY: They mow the lawn back and forth until you find the signal that says, there, you have the wreck. That takes a while even if you know where you have to go.

SHUBERT: By salvaging the Sydney, McCarthy and his team were able to pinpoint exactly what happened when it sank. Investigators will be hoping to do the same with Flight 370. Solving the mystery is only part of the search.

MCCARTHY: What happened, it wasn't so much whose idea was right or wrong, but whether the relatives got a sense of closure, to use a terrible word. It is not really closure. They had a sense of one less mystery to them.

SHUBERT: This deep water mystery now solved has hoped those still seeking answers to Flight 370. Atika Shubert, CNN, Australia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, poor coordination and how it might have led to critical delays for the search for Flight 370.

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