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Shooter was being Treated for Mental Health Issues; How the Media Deals with Victims; Fort Hood Shooting

Aired April 03, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Families are grappling with another tragedy at Fort Hood in Texas. An Army specialist opened fire killing three people and injuring up to 16 others.

So far, no motive. But we are learning more about that shooter who committed suicide after being confronted by a military police officer. Brooke Baldwin is at Fort Hood with more on that. Good morning.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, good morning.

Yes we are standing just outside of the main entry way onto post here at Fort Hood. And we heard -- we ditched in just a little bit to that Senate Armed Services Committee hearing this morning and that's when we really learned some new nuggets about this shooter here. This 34 year-old Army Specialist Ivan Lopez who took his own life yesterday afternoon.

So -- so let me get straight to that new information. We know that he was deployed to Iraq back in 2001 for four months according to the Secretary of the Army he did not see combat to their knowledge. Looking back you know his background no TBI, no traumatic brain injuries, no Purple Hearts, nothing of that nature. He was a truck driver basically for those four months.

We do know that he had been undergoing mental health evaluations. Since he's been here at Fort Hood, he's been here just since February. He's got a wife. He's got three-year-old little girl. They live off post.

So we know he had been treated for depression, for anxiety. Apparently he was having a tough time sleeping and had been given a number of prescriptions. They mentioned specifically this morning at this hearing, Ambien. But he was seen as recently as last month by a psychologist. "No suicidal ideations" was the phrase. But so they ultimately decided Carol, to just monitor him and again he did have this .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol which was what he used in the shooting.

But you know, he took this gun on post illegally. You have to check it and register it with the commander which from what they've said he had not done. And just quickly finally obviously is they're looking into any sort of -- they don't want to entirely rule out terrorism motives although this is looking more like an isolated incident. So far they said at this hearing that he has no ties with any kind of extremist groups whatsoever.

COSTELLO: All right Brooke, stay with me. I want to bring in CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes to talk more about this. Good morning Tom.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good morning Carol.

COSTELLO: General Odierno during the Senate Armed Services committee said that the new rules put into place at Fort Hood worked in part. Do you know what he's talking about?

FUENTES: Actually I don't. I didn't hear the interview so I don't know what he said or why.

COSTELLO: Well I think the new rules put in place you can't bring those guns on base, right? Those who -- you have to register them.

FUENTES: OK, well I would --

COSTELLO: Go ahead.

FUENTES: I would ask you to ask Brooke Baldwin right now since she's at the main gate. Are they searching vehicles that are coming on the base right this minute? Are they searching every individual that enters that base as we speak? If that's not happening, how do you keep a gun off the base if somebody wants to bring one on?

COSTELLO: Brooke, do you notice anything like that?

BALDWIN: I'm standing here we're just in front of the main entrance and we're not allowed on. Let me be just crystal clear. There is a little bit of traffic backing up here as some folks are turning in. It's a great question. I don't know. And I think this really speaks to what we're discussing earlier with General "Spider" Marks and Barbara Starr you know the fact that even if you do live on post and are legally carrying a gun you can as long as you register that gun you know with the commander. You have to take it home.

But I'm just turning around forgive me for doing this live. I can't tell Tom Fuentes if people are checking cars.

FUENTES: OK.

BALDWIN: But we will definitely get to the bottom of that and see if they are.

FUENTES: Yes and I'm not advocating that they do. Because I think it's impossible, really the point I'm trying to make. You can't turn a fort into a U.S. penitentiary and do that search for thousands that commute on and off the base everyday much less the people that live there. So as General Spider Marks said, you have as many as 90,000 people on that base. That makes it a small city -- roughly a little bit smaller than Peoria, Illinois which by the way last year had 19 homicides, 13 by shootings. So just to put it --

COSTELLO: Let me ask you this Tom. What if you knew --

(CROSSTALK)

FUENTES: Yes.

COSTELLO: -- than an Army specialist was having psychiatric problems, he was depressed, he was suffering from anxiety, he's seen a psychiatrist. What would you do then as that person entered the post?

FUENTES: Well how would you know that? I mean that would be -- you know, he's not going to wear a sign saying that he's been labeled that way --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well no I'm just saying if Army personnel knew those things about this person.

FUENTES: Well I don't understand how it could be -- how it could be stopped. Much less you know what could be done to prevent him from going into town and buying a gun as he did. You have two congressmen on earlier today start talking about the Second Amendment. So you know there'll been no change with that policy.

So you have someone that's been diagnosed by the Army at least having psychiatric problems requiring medication even though not yet diagnosed as PTSD. But at least known to have psychiatric problems, had no problem going into town, buying a gun, bringing it on the base and shooting people.

COSTELLO: Yes that's what I'm talking about --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me jump in.

COSTELLO: Go ahead Brooke.

BALDWIN: If I could just jump in and just say that you know we know -- and you know our bigger conversation with General Spider Marks saying by all accounts surface level here, it looked like the Army was doing its job.

We know this 34-year-old specialist had been going to a psychologist, we know he was taking medication, we know he was undergoing a possible PTSD diagnosis. But we can't jump to that conclusion. We know he was having issues with anxiety, he was having a tough time sleeping. They were monitoring him. No suicidal tendencies.

And from all accounts he had this gun legally and so to Tom's point, this is the largest active duty armored post in the country. I cannot imagine how they could search every single car coming and going out post --

COSTELLO: No but that's not what I'm suggesting. If military personnel knew this man was suffering from depression, and he was on medication. He bought the gun off base. He lived off post, so he had to drive through security to get in. So should he have been flagged in some way for a special check or something like? That's all I'm suggesting.

FUENTES: Well --

BALDWIN: Sure and I understand. And I'm sure there are a number of people here who are suffering you know similar issues, Tom.

FUENTES: No that's true. That's true and you -- you know and you're talking about a facility; it's training, housing and deploying war fighters. So you know it's not -- you know I compare it to another city that actually had more homicides. But -- but here you have a place where people are in an environment you know designed so that they can be deployed for combat or at least to a combat zone even if they have a non-combative role there.

So it is -- it's a tough environment to try to enforce all that. And you know I just don't know -- you're asking something are they going to put a label on somebody or something with their ID that's going to change if they're undergoing some type of treatment because most of the people who undergo treatment like that are never going to be violent. And that's -- that's the other thing with this issue. Even if they're diagnosed with PTSD, it doesn't mean they're going to be violent.

But you know, even people without the psychiatric problems and the diagnosis of any kind of mental illness can potentially be violent.

COSTELLO: And you're absolutely right about all of that, Tom. It's just so frustrating because it seems like there's nothing we can do?

FUENTES: I don't think there's nothing we're going to do.

COSTELLO: And there's a difference there. And that's the distinction right. Congressman Peter King kept telling us -- Brooke remember -- that they're going to look into this, that there are special studies underway.

BALDWIN: Right.

COSTELLO: That they're going to vote for new funding. But frankly these kinds of incidents have happened before. And you're right, Tom, nothing has changed.

FUENTES: Right.

COSTELLO: So we're left here speechless which is also a sad thing right? BALDWIN: I know. I know and I wish I had something more enlightening I mean you and I have covered all the other even just you know off post, the other shootings in this country. And it just really broadens the conversations we have had here on CNN when it comes to not just Second Amendment that's one issue because mental health -- mental health issues whether you are a member of the Armed Forces and carrying a weapon or not. And you have talked to a lot of people as I know you have and I have. And that needs to change.

COSTELLO: OK. Well I'll wrap it up there. Brooke Baldwin, Tom Fuentes -- many thanks to both of you.

FUENTES: You're welcome Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come -- you're welcome thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM reporting on missing Flight 370 is a delicate balance between covering the story and being sensitive to the families. Up next, a look at how the media attention affects the victims' loved ones.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The friends and family members of those on board Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 are making their voices heard. Most are demanding answers, all are expressing grief but many of them share one thing in common, the hope their loved ones might still be alive.

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LEE KHIM FATT, HUSBAND OF FLIGHT ATTENDANT FOONG WAI YUENG: She has been flying on Malaysia Airline the past 18 years. She's a lovely lady, a lovely wife, a very caring mom for my two kids. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's the glue that holds things together, my sister. It's a roller coaster ride, it's difficult for the family members. We are hoping there will be survivors. If it indeed ended somewhere in the Indian Ocean, we hope that there will be survivors. We hope she is among the survivor, yes. That's the only thing that we can do. We hope that there is a light at the end of this tunnel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It isn't easy for victims to go on camera and talk about their pain. And it isn't easy for most reporters to ask people in pain to go camera. I read an op-ed about how the media approaches victims and vice versa for CNN.com. A part of this op-ed, quote, "Picking up the phone to call someone who's suffered a loss are things I loathe but it's part of my job. It's also part of my responsibility to decide whether there is a journalistic purpose for invading someone's privacy. Have I made the right call 100 percent of the time? The best I can tell you is I tried."

Journalists are put in that position pretty much everyday. CNN's Sarah Sidner is making those decisions in Malaysia. She joins me now, along with Heidi Snow who lost her fiancee in a plane crash. We lost Heidi but we'll get her back. She's also the author of "Surviving Sudden Loss: stories from those who lived it". So I'll say welcome to both of you.

And Sarah, I'll start with you. You're living this journalistic quandary right now. What's that like?

SARAH SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, to me it's not a quandary. We're here to tell stories. And I think the stories of the people who are directly involved in this, namely, the families who are simply waiting to find out any details no matter how small about what happened to their loved ones is a powerful story. And a story that some of the families want told.

The difficulty is when there's a lot of media in one area, for example. I've been outside some of hotels where the families are. I've stayed in some of the hotels where the families are. And there's a real balance that needs to be made there.

Yesterday for example Carol, I was standing outside. We were waiting for the families to be briefed. We have been talking to the families. We have people who speak mandarin who have been talking directly with the families. We have people, of course, some of them speak English. I've been talking to some of them via e-mail and online on Facebook.

But I saw a scene yesterday that disturbed me. And you see this all the time where you could clearly see that this family member did not want to be on television. She did not want to be talked to. She had a newspaper over her head. And suddenly she was surrounded by three or four people. And she couldn't move and she started screaming.

Now this woman obviously did not want to be on. So there was no reason for me to approach. She made it very, very clear. And that's where you get that the feeling that, you know, we're doing something wrong. You have to decide yourself whether or not to pull back

In that instance I didn't approach. It's clear that she doesn't want to talk. And that we were actually injuring her by going up to her and trying to get her to say something when she covered her head making it very clear. So I think there's just a decision, a personal decision, that you make with your crew as to when to pursue and when to pull back.

Usually we try by calling, talking in person without the camera. And if the families say, listen we want our family's story known, that's when you say, would you be willing to speak to us? We've done interviews on camera, we've done interview with their faces blacked out and we've just done interviews on the phone, however they want to tell it Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, the situation you brought up was clearly wrong. Those reporters should have left that poor woman alone. That said -- when you shoot an emotional image of a family member, that's a powerful tool. That is the kind of thing that may that may make the Malaysian government give more information to those families, right? It's powerful.

SIDNER: It is. It's absolutely powerful. It is the story as far as I'm concerned. Some people want to concentrate on all the technical aspects and they want to look at the investigation. That's also a story. But ultimately this is about the families, right, the families of everyone on board -- the families of the pilots, the families of the flight attendant, the families of the passengers that are there.

We actually just got a lovely e-mail from one of the family members. We did a story about her son. She said she's suffering in silence and that nobody had really contacted her. And she felt relieved that someone actually cared about her family member. She thanked us. We don't get that every day.

Some days you feel awful. You're knocking on someone's door. You know that a tragedy has happened. You feel intrusive, but at the point in which the either slam the door in your face or tell you that they're just not interested. There is a point in which you have to know when to back off and we're always taught, you think of it as your own family. How would you respond to them? And that's kind of the way that my crew and myself go about doing these things.

If somebody doesn't want to talk, leave them be. You leave your telephone number. If they call you, that's a different thing. But oftentimes people do want to talk. They do want to express something that the rest of the world needs to know about their loved ones. In this case, who have gone missing and have been missing since March 8th -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I think one of the most powerful images in my mind through all of this are when the families marched on the Malaysian Embassy in Beijing demanding answers. They wanted those images to be shown on television. They wanted Malaysian authorities to see how angry they were. And we were able to provide that voice for them.

You know, the most important thing we do, we give voice to the voiceless, power to the powerless. Those kinds of images make me feel we're doing our job.

SIDNER: Well, they wanted their message out. And you know, it is one of those again balancing acts where when someone wants to say something and it's relevant to the story generally that's our job. We're there to let people express themselves through the media. Sometimes they're able to talk directly with those -- for example from Malaysian Airlines or from the Malaysian government. And sometimes they don't feel they're being heard, they come to the media itself.

It's just a balancing act because sometimes those same families will turn around and say we don't want to be shown anymore. And you have to know where that sort of balance is and where that respect is. And I think it's just having conversations on a human level off camera with them to know when to go forward and sometimes you have to ask pretty tough questions as you know Carol, in these scenarios.

We interviewed for example, the mother of the Iranian young man who had a stolen passport and boarded the flight. It was a very difficult conversation but ultimately we ended up doing the story -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Sarah Sidner, thank you so much for your insight -- difficult conversation to have but quite an important one. Thank you. We regret not being able to technically get Heidi Snow on the air. Perhaps she'll join us next week. I hope so.

And if you want to read my opinion piece, cnn.com/opinion, "How the media deals with victims", it's online right now.

Still to come in the newsroom, one in five veterans suffers from PTSD. Is mental health though a top priority for the military? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Welcome back to our special coverage of the shooting at Fort Hood. Brooke Baldwin is outside the army post in Killeen, Texas.

We're starting to get a clearer picture about some of the injured in yesterday's attack. We now know Patrick Miller was one of them. He's from Allegheny in upstate New York. Brooke, tell us more about him.

BALDWIN: Yes, Carol, we're finally getting just a little bit more information about those injured and those who were killed. We know four killed including the shooter, 16 or so injured.

Let's show this picture because we can talk as much as we want about the shooter. But I really want to pivot and just talk about the victims.

I mean look at this picture. Just judging by the tape, we know his rank is Major. Major Patrick Miller. His mother tweeted last night, "Please say prayers for my son who was shot at Fort Hood tonight."

Quickly background, we know according to his Facebook page, he graduated from St. Bonaventure University in 2003. This young man has an MBA from Syracuse. He received that degree in 2009. And then according again to this Facebook post, he had been a member of the U.S. Army since 2003 and presumably stationed here at Fort Hood -- just one of the faces impacted by this terrible tragedy not even 24 hours ago -- Carol.

COSTELLO: As we learn more about that victim and who the shooter was and how he was undergoing treatment for depression and anxiety, the issue of mental health will certainly be raised again and again today and in the coming days. Along with the question of whether we're doing enough to prevent these kinds of shootings.

Joining us now are Caitlin Dickson, a reporter for "The Daily Beast" and military psychiatrist, Elspeth Ritchie. Good morning to both of you.

ELSPETH RITCHIE, MILITARY PSYCHIATRIST: Good morning.

CAITLIN DICKSON, "THE DAILY BEAST": Thanks so much.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Thank you for being with me.

Elspeth, I want to start with you. The shooter in this case was diagnosed with anxiety and depression. He was being evaluated for possible post traumatic stress syndrome. An army psychiatrist though said he had no signs to commit violence. Could we have prevented him from going on this shooting spree, this alleged shooting spree. Could we have prevented it in any way knowing what we know about him now?

RITCHIE: Well, clearly it's too early to answer that question. After these types of shootings there's usually a major investigation. And that's precisely one of the questions that will be asked and perhaps answered.

I will say that in general, people with the milder mental illness like anxiety, depression, and post traumatic stress disorder -- it's not associated with increased violence. There are some symptoms of mental illness such as delusions and paranoia, irritability and anger that are more associated with violence. So that's a type of thing that the investigators will look at. Was he simply depressed and anxious or did he actually have delusions and paranoia?

COSTELLO: And Brooke, we understand from -- go ahead Brooke.

BALDWIN: No, I just wanted to ask Caitlin sort of on this whole topic. Caitlin, I know I read a "Daily Beast" article of yours just to really bring this home and put a face on this story. You wrote about this interesting phone call that you got from this mother who told you about her young son, 18 years of age, his name was Ezra walking to school. He was allegedly shot by someone on a different base here in Texas, Fort Bliss. And she has been unsuccessfully trying to sue the military because why Caitlin?

DICKSON: Because after her son was killed, the man who allegedly shot him was diagnosed with combat stress disorder and determined unfit to stand trial. And apparently through reports following the shooting, he had been showing signs of distress and mental illness. She feels that if something was done to diagnose and treat this man earlier that her son would still be alive today.

She reached out to me because she was just so frustrated. She had tried to sue. Her case had been thrown out at every level up to the Supreme Court. And this is the case with a lot of victims' families. You know, there's not a lot of recourse. You can't really hold the military responsible for things like this.

COSTELLO: Elspeth, how would you respond to that?

RITCHI: Well, my heart goes out to her and to all victims of gun violence. It's such a tragedy. We've had so many mass shootings in the last five years. The one at Fort Bliss you mentioned; there was also, of course, Fort Hood five years ago; the Navy Yard this last spring -- correction -- this last fall; then one at camp liberty in Iraq in 2009.

So we definitely see things going on with easy access to weapons when people get angry or irritable. So it is a big issue. Unfortunately there's not easy solutions to prevent it from happening again.

COSTELLO: Brooke, I thought you had a question in there.

BALDWIN: I'm sorry. No.

COSTELLO: Elspeth, you said there are no easy solutions but there has to be something we could do. Any suggestions?

RITCHIE: Yes, absolutely. I have lots of suggestions. One of them is we talk a lot about don't drink and drive. We don't talk -- we, I mean being the military even though I'm now retired and no longer on active duty -- we don't talk about responsible gun ownership, about trigger locks and gun safes. We have signs on the highways saying this is the time since the last car crash. We really need to have more of an emphasis on gun safety.

I don't think that the people are going to take away guns especially in states like Texas, but we have to learn how to use them safely to protect ourselves and other people.

COSTELLO: Elspeth Ritchie, Caitlin Dickson and Brooke Baldwin -- thanks to all of you.

Thanks to you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.