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Malaysia Airline Black Boxes Possibly Found

Aired April 05, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in for Don Lemon this evening

A potentially huge development in the search for flight 370. A Chinese ship has detected a so-called pulse signal deep in the Indian Ocean near the arc where authorities believe the plane have gone down. The signal could lead teams to the airliner's black boxes or it could be nothing.

The same ship picked up a signal Friday but lost it before it could be recorded. This is a race against the clock. The batteries for those flight data recorders could run out in a matter of hours, and there was a worry the batteries might already be inoperative, but Malaysia Airlines CEO says they weren't due to be replaced until June.

Teams also are trying to track down some white objects spotted about 56 miles from the pulse signal. We don't know if they are from the plane, the doomed flight either, and we could get some answers in a couple of hours when the aerial search resumes at daylight.

Let's talk about all of this and these new developments with the Anish Patel, he is the president of Duquesne C-Com, the company that delivered the original flight data recorders carried aboard Flight 370. Anish, let's assume that the Chinese ship actually did hear something, and you told us that the black box pings happened at a unique frequency. Are you confident these pings couldn't be confused for a different kind of sound like perhaps a military sonar or maybe even a fishing vessel?

ANISH PATEL, DUKANE SEACOM PRESIDENT: Well, good question, and I think that's where the 37.5 kilohertz verification, that it was that unique frequency, is going to be critical. It was designed to be different from all the other ambient background noise in the ocean, so it should stand out just like they claim it did.

WHITFIELD: OK. And that sound Anish comes from a beacon very similar to this. We have a flight data recorder right here on our desk. This beacon and this is a beacon that likely your company may have manufactured whether it be for this 777 or others, should we be listening for two pingers, not just necessarily one, since both flight recorders are equipped with pingers?

PATEL: They're both - both recorders are equipped with a unique pinger but those pingers are on the same frequency, so the 37.5 kilohertz is identical to both pingers. If you hear one and the other one is adjacent or nearby, you're going to hear a second ping. It won't be synchronized. The units don't talk to each other, so you will hear two independent pings at that same frequency and same pulse rate.

WHITFIELD: And according to the reporting, the Chinese are saying that the sound that they heard was not continuous but lasted maybe for about a minute and a half. Is that a viable description of how a pinger just might work? Does that sound, you know, like a pinger with perhaps a dying battery?

PATEL: Well, it's hard to say. We've not duplicated a situation like that in the lab where it would stay on and then turn off and then stay on. Typically it's continuous, and as the battery dies, it would just decrease in the sound output, the sound power output, not necessarily become discontinuous like that. So it's not typical, so that makes it unique and something we need to study.

WHITFIELD: All right. Anish Patel, thanks so much. Stay with us. Stay on the line because we do want to talk to you more about today's headline and you're also going to be joining our expert panel coming up.

But first the sun rises in western Australia in just a matter of a couple of hours, and the aerial search will begin again over the Indian Ocean. I want to bring in Matthew Chance now with the latest from Perth, Australia. So, Matthew, what's our understanding as to what will happen come day break?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's pretty unclear at the moment. What we understand from the Australians who are leading the search effort, the international search effort here, is that they've been trying over the past several hours to be in contact with the Chinese vessel that detected this pulse coming from this area which apparently was outside of the designated search zone, but they've been unable to do so to get any further details of what exactly they found.

And so that's something that they're waiting to hear from. They've been in contact with the Chinese capital, with Beijing, to see if they can get any additional information as well. At the moment what the international sort of coordination effort here is saying is that they're considering sending assets, airplanes, in fact, to the area to follow up on what the Chinese have detected, but at the moment they haven't made that decision to do that. They'll be coming obviously in early in the morning and making that decision.

But at the same time the Australian-led mission saying they're aware of what the Chinese have detected, saying that it is consistent with a black box flight recorder and they're also aware of that second incidence as well, which we shouldn't forget about that second issue that's been raised, Chinese airplane spotting what they say are white objects relatively close to where they detected those pulses as well, about 60 miles away, in fact.

Again, neither of these issues, neither the pulses or the objects at this point have been confirmed as being related to that missing Malaysian airliner, Fred.

WHITFIELD: And Matthew, earlier it was reported there was a communication problem between Chinese authorities and Australian authorities. Is that still a problem, those two countries connecting and sharing information?

CHANCE: Well, it's a problem in the sense that the Chinese aren't operating in the same way as the other seven countries that are engaged in this international search mission in the sense of this. You know, everyone else when they see something, when they find something, they relate that information back to the sort of central coordination center here. The Chinese don't do that. They relate it back to their capital in Beijing and then Beijing decides what to relay to the Australians, and so that's led to a source - that's a source of confusion, potentially a source of friction as well. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Matthew Chance, thanks so much, in Perth, Australia.

So is the ping that the Chinese claim to have heard today actually from flight 370? We're bringing in our team of aviation analysts right after this quick break.

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WHITFIELD: A possible break-through today in the search for flight 370. A Chinese ship discovers a pulse signal coming across the same frequency used by so-called black boxes.

Joining me now to discuss, Anish Patel, president of pinger manufacturer Dukane Seacom, CNN aviation analyst and pilot Miles O'Brien, and CNN analyst and ocean search specialist, Rob McCallum. Good to see all of you.

All right. Anish is joining us by phone. So Rob, to you first, how confident are you that this signal is, indeed, an indicator of one of the black boxes?

ROB MCCALLUM, CNN ANALYST: Well, it's intriguing. You know, we don't have a lot of information as yet because the information we do have is not being confirmed, but if we take it at face value, it's a very positive sign and it could be the jackpot.

WHITFIELD: And Miles, there is a lot of ship traffic in the southern portion of the Indian Ocean, so could this signal be coming from something else?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I'm not an expert on underwater searching on all this, but I do know that the type of signal that they are reporting would lead you to believe that it is, in fact, the pinger for one of the black boxes. What's interesting to me is how they got to this location, what sorts of assets did the Chinese use to get to this location they may not be sharing with everybody. I doubt this was just a lucky shot in the dark. WHITFIELD: And the why, of course, because no one is clear on why they would be in that particular vicinity when it's about 100 miles off course from the concentrated search area.

So, Anish, the Chinese ship actually detected the signal two separate times we understand, once on Friday and then again today, Saturday. Does that tell you anything? Does that, I guess, lend more credence to, you know, what they heard?

PATEL: Well, I'd like to think so. The longer and the more often they hear the signal, again, it's designed to be a continuous signal, the longer and more often they hear it, the better.

WHITFIELD: And so, Rob, how might the depth of the ocean, the locality of where they believe they heard this pulse, how does that impact a signal?

MCCALLUM: The signal can be impacted by obviously by distance because it does have a limited range. It was designed as a short-range tool, but also by the different thermoclimes, the different thermolayers in the ocean.

WHITFIELD: And so Anish, give us an idea of the resiliency of the pulse in those kind of conditions whether it may be because there might be debris in the water, whether there be silt in the water. How do those things impact the audioability of this pulse?

PATEL: Well, the pulse is designed typically to travel about 2, 2.5 nautical miles. But as Rob said, a lot of things can impact that. The thermal degradation, the changes in temperature at the various layers in the water, as you said, the sea floor, ocean topology, mountains, cliffs, underwater valleys, vegetation in the water, debris, all of that can degrade the distance at which the signal is heard, and then also as we talked about, the battery output.

As we approach the end of life, that signal is going to become weaker and you're going to have to be closer to it to hear it.

WHITFIELD: It might become weaker, but would it be intermittent because we're hearing from the Chinese news agency it was about a minute and a half in which the signal was picked up. I mean what would be the best explanation in your view if this, indeed, is the pulse of a black box?

PATEL: Typically the signal is not intermittent. Maybe it's weaker and it's harder to hear, but as the battery degrades, the signal would decline in output but you would not get an intermittency in the operation of the unit. Could it be some other factors, debris in the way, other items blocking the signal? Possibly, but intermittency is not something we typically demonstrated in the lab.

WHITFIELD: All right. Anish Patel, Miles O'Brien, Rob McCallum, thanks to all of you. Appreciate it.

So passengers on flight 370 have been ruled out as suspects in this plane's disappearance, but the crew members are still suspects. And today an interesting move by investigators when it comes to those cockpit recordings. We'll talk about that next.

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WHITFIELD: All right. In a moment we'll get back to those so-called black boxes and the hunt for them in the Indian Ocean, but in Malaysia today we found out that a few other people besides investigators have now heard recordings of the last conversations from the cockpit of flight 370. Joe Johns is in Kuala Lumpur right now. So Joe, who heard these recordings and why?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's pretty clear that these recordings were heard by friends and perhaps other pilots, Fred, who were given these recordings to actually listen to to try to identify, among other things, the voices and who was actually speaking.

The families did not receive an opportunity to listen to those recordings and perhaps some concern over that, but it's quite typical because this is still considered by the law enforcement authorities to be a criminal investigation in Kuala Lumpur, and typically even in the United States when there's a criminal investigation going on and it involves a plane, the cockpit recordings are not released to the public, Fred.

WHITFIELD: And then I know it's in the middle of the night, but Malaysian authorities, what, if anything, are they saying about these Chinese news reports that something might have been detected in the water off the coast of Australia?

JOHNS: Very little, quite frankly. There was a tweet that went out from the transport minister earlier this evening which simply talked about prayers and hope, but certainly no confirmation because no one has that at this stage, Fred.

WHITFIELD: OK. And then clearly a lot of criticism, there has been from the very beginning, about how messy this investigation has unfolded, and now you have Chinese authorities that are not necessarily reporting the information to Malaysian authorities. Malaysian authorities who want to pass on the information to Australian authorities. What is the response about the criticism now being lodged against Malaysia and, quite frankly, all of the countries involved?

JOHNS: Well, there's been certainly a lot of criticism and even some question as to whether malice was involved in the investigation, the handling of the plane, and so on. The transport minister at a briefing earlier this evening went so far as to actually deny the reports that there was anything unusual, and he did that in part because the opposition party leader has actually questioned whether there was something more than incompetence involved. They felt necessary also to talk about that and deny that there was any complicity, if you will, because of all the media reports that have suggested the same thing. So they wanted to get that on the record for the future, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Joe Johns in Kuala Lumpur, thank you so much.

Just hours away from day break there and what may be discovered or said in Australia will impact people in Malaysia. Appreciate that.

All right. The search for the black boxes of Flight 370, one thing are found, if they are found, what can be learned? We'll look inside a flight data recorder, next.

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WHITFIELD: A quick update on this hour's headlines in the search for flight 370. A Chinese ship reportedly detected a 90-second stream of pings consistent with an airliner's so-called black box The pings were heard outside of but not far from the main search zone, but it's too soon to say whether they are, indeed, linked to the missing plane.

The Chinese also report that one of their search planes detected white objects floating in the ocean near the search area. Previous objects were found to be trash or other ocean debris.

Meantime, investigators have played the recordings of flight 370's air-to-ground conversations for friends but not for the families of the pilot and the first officer in an effort to identify the speaker.

So we're hearing a lot about flight 370's flight data recorder or the so-called black box. The information inside that device can be a treasure trove of data that investigators could use to unlock, I guess, the reasons as to why this plane disappeared and what happened to it.

Have you ever wondered what's inside a flight data recorder? And how exactly that information is stored and recovered? CNN's Zain Asher is here with some details on what is inside that recorder box and then how they get it out.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. So every single time the pilot flips a switch or twiddles a knob, that information is recorded by the flight data recorder. So every single one of the pilot's maneuvers is registered, so we're talking speed, altitude, acceleration, Fred, when the pilots made that crucial turn, for example.

I actually spent the day in Buffalo, New York, and an engineer actually walked me through how a flight data recorder, how the information on a flight data recorder rather is downloaded and read by investigators. Take a listen.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crash protected and shock mounted.

ASHER (voice-over): This is what investigators will see once the black boxes of flight MH-370 are found and data from the memory downloaded for analysis.

KEVIN BALYS, OWNER, KOB AVIATION SOLUTIONS: We pull the data up on the screen, we'll see the data in a tabular format and graphical format. We connect the recorder to a power supply.

ASHER: Black boxes contain hundreds of data points or parameters about the flight's movement, pilot maneuvers, speed and altitude, all displayed with a series of graphs.

BALYS: Every flight data recorder records the data in binary values. It's a series of ones and zeros. In order for humans to understand that, we need to convert it into engineering units, and engineering units simply mean feet for altitude. Airspeed is recorded in knots.

ASHER (on camera): OK. So this right here, that's airspeed, correct?

BALYS: That's correct.

ASHER: So here as you see getting faster, that represents takeoff.

BALYS: Yes.

ASHER (voice-over): It's through graphs like these that we'll learn if someone on board deliberately nose dived the aircraft, if there was a pilot error, or a mechanical failure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If an engine or mechanical failure there would be all kinds of indications. It would be able to determine which engine turned off first if it was because of fuel starvation they would know that versus if it was intentionally cut off.

ASHER: This line represents the plane's altitude. If flight MH-370 suddenly dropped to a lower altitude midflight, here is where we'd see a change. If someone on board deliberately altered the flight path, we'll see this line start to dip or rise depending on the direction.

BALYS: I think one of the important things people will be looking at is who was in control of the aircraft. So when we look at the data from the flight data recorder, you can see if the inputs were coming from the autopilot or the left seat or the right seat. In other words, the pilot or the co-pilot.

ASHER: Technicians can also use latitude or longitude positions here to pinpoint where the plane was located at any point during flight.

BALYS: What you see on the front of this recorder is encased solid state memory module.

ASHER: And although the memory chips on flight data recorders are rarely ever damaged, airlines still need to perform regular flight data recorder maintenance and preflight testing to ensure the black boxes are up to par. The biggest challenge now is to locate them before the batteries die.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To find that pinger in those trenches or to find it after the pinger has stopped in those trenches is going to be extremely difficult.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. You're looking right now at a black box even though it's orange. It's got reflective tape on it, and on one end, the far end over there, you actually have the beacon and there's a sensor so when it hits water, that's when the pinging starts. So, Zain, this goes down with the wreckage, this will sink but there's such a thing as a deployable black box, military jets already have them.

ASHER: Right.

WHITFIELD: Why aren't they on commercial flights?

ASHER: OK. So number one, you have to think about the amount of resources and the time it would take to actually implement them. Number two, you have to take cost into consideration. I mean the black box I just showed you in my piece was roughly $20,000. A deployable one would cost up to $60,000. So three times as much.

Some people say a deployable black box will not necessarily save lives. If you're looking for the deployable black box, it's essentially probably too late. On the other hand, if you can find the deployable boxes sooner, then you might be able to save lives by figuring out what happened.

WHITFIELD: Spending less money and the resource that is it takes to look for the black box when it's not deployable. All that is very instructive information. Thanks so much, Zain Asher. Appreciate it.

All right. We're also watching a very important developing story out of Afghanistan where voters turned out in large numbers today for historic elections despite threats of Taliban violence. So this is the first democratic transfer of presidential power in the country's history. There were no major attacks in the capital, but 20 people were killed in violence in other parts of the country.

A short time ago President Obama issued a written statement, part of it saying this, quote, "I congratulate the millions of Afghans who enthusiastically participated in today's historic elections which represent another important milestone in Afghans taking full responsibility for their country as the United States and our partners draw down our forces." That from the president of the United States.

All right. That's going to do it for me for now. I'm Fredricka Whitfield at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. The CNN NEWSROOM continues 30 minutes from now.

Meantime, our coverage of flight 370 continues right now with "Sanjay Gupta, M.D.."