Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Pistorius Begins Testimony with Apology; Source: MH370 Skirted Indonesia's Radar; Jeb Bush on Illegal Immigration; Dow Down Triple Digits

Aired April 07, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSCAR PISTORIUS, ON TRIAL FOR GIRLFRIEND'S DEATH: I have terrible nightmares about -- about things that happened that night, where I wake up and I smell -- I can smell blood and I wake up to being terrified. If I hear a noise, I wake up just in a complete state of terror to a point that I would rather not sleep than fall asleep and wake up like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And Sunny, he went on to -- he went on for about 45 minutes according to Robyn Curnow detailing how when he was a boy, he was very afraid that -- of crime. In fact his mother slept with a gun under her pillow. Those are his earliest memories. What -- what is -- what is the defense trying to establish here?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know I think the defense is certainly trying to humanize him. They're trying to explain why he would have behaved in a manner that was completely different than his training. Because we know this is a person who is very familiar with guns; he's certified in how to use guns. He knows that under South African law, he's got to assess a threat. Someone has to really be approaching him, if indeed he believed there was a burglar, that person was supposed to have approached him before he discharged his firearm. He was familiar with all of that.

So the defense now has to prove to this judge he behaved differently than his training because he was in this sort of state of sheer terror, because he wasn't on his prosthetic legs, because of his upbringing in South Africa. Because of his training with his mother, because of the need he felt to protect Reeva.

And I think so far, he's doing a decent job at that. I mean the judge ended the testimony very early today saying that she felt that he looked exhausted. And so certainly I think his demeanor in the courtroom is perhaps helping him.

But I think I agree, certainly that it's really about what happens on cross-examination --

COSTELLO: Yes.

HOSTIN: -- because we know he killed her. He admitted to killing her. It's really about whether or not he intended to kill her.

COSTELLO: And I guess the defense is starting to set up that process right now, because they talked about Pistorius' prosthetic legs. Earlier in the trial, a police expert testified that based on forensic evidence, Pistorius was not wearing his prosthetics the night Steenkamp was shot. Listen to something Pistorius said in court that seems to contradict that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PISTORIUS: I don't have balance on my stumps. I couldn't stand on my stumps. I can't stand still on my stumps. I keep my prosthetics legs next to my bed and when I get up in the morning I put them on and when I go to bed at night, I take them off. So I seldom don't -- I seldom have time when I'm not wearing my prosthetic legs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So Pistorius says he can't stand without his prosthetics on and this could be a key sticking point to his defense, right, Greg?

MATTHEW GALLUZZO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, it certainly could be. I think he's probably going to correct that statement later on cross-examination and say that you know he can stand somewhat, but he's a little wobbly, and it certainly would have been possible for him to shoot through the door while wearing his stumps.

But yes. I mean given that he's already given an affidavit. He's already sworn to the fact that he wasn't wearing his prosthetic legs at the time that he shot through the door. He needs to fix that, he's going to need to fix that probably on cross-examination.

COSTELLO: Sunny?

HOSTIN: Yes you know I think it sort of cuts both ways, because he has already in his affidavit said, listen, I was on my stump, and that is why I felt so afraid, because I wasn't on the prosthetic legs that I'm generally on. So he does have to stick to that story.

But I think if truly can convince the judge that he wasn't on the prosthetic legs, then that bolsters and helps his story that he was unsteady that -- well he was able to you know discharge his gun, he still felt that sheer terror because he's disabled and he didn't feel as certain and as sure of himself.

So that testimony cuts both ways. I do suspect that he's going to explain on cross-examination exactly what he meant. But I think he's going to stick to the story that he was on his stumps, that he was not on his prosthetic legs when he shot into the door.

COSTELLO: All right Sunny Hostin and Matthew Galluzzo, I'm sorry I called you Greg, I don't know what's on my mind. I'm sorry about that. But thanks to both of you --

GALLUZZO: No problem.

HOSTIN: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: -- for being with me today.

Still to come on the NEWSROOM, off the radar and quite possibly on purpose, a developing twist in the disappearance of Flight 370. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: There is another big development to tell you about today.

Flight 370 apparently skirted Indonesia. A source telling CNN whoever was flying that plane was skillful enough to successfully fly around that country and then the plane vanished from radar. The question is why.

Let's bring in Martin Savidge and pilot trainer Mitchell Casado; they're aboard that flight simulator. Welcome to both of you.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So Martin, we're all assuming that whoever was flying that plane skirted Indonesia on purpose, but is that necessarily true?

SAVIDGE: You know it's a really good question and certainly when this report came out thanks to Nic Robertson it gives that impression. I mean the Malaysian government has maintained for a long time that they felt that this was a criminal act. And now as a result of this information it's easy to see why to have the aircraft go specifically around a point, in this case, a country, I think Mitchell it has to be guided in some way to do that. It's not just going to do it on its own?

MITCHELL CASADA, PILOT TRAINER, 777 COCKPIT SIMULATOR: No, it's not going to do it on its own for sure, it can be done by accident, but that would one heck of a coincidence.

SAVIDGE: What we did was I asked Mitchell to you know sort of program it in and he did and I think you know we can point it out to you here. This is us approaching right here that's the last known normal point in the flight of 370. And now you see the plane will have to make a very sharp, veering turn and begin to go off on this course that Mitchell has picked.

We should point out Carol we don't know the exact way points we don't even know if way points were used. But I think you had put in how many?

CASADO: 18 and 20 way points.

SAVIDGE: That's a lot of way points Carol we should point out because you know for that kind of a change. So it required a lot of work that way. There another way to manually do it and show us.

CASADO: And it's very simple, you just turn the knob and you select the heading out of 360 degrees in a circle. You select the one you want and you just press that button.

SAVIDGE: And you can see that the aircraft is beginning to turn. And that can feel actually not too abnormal if you're a passenger in the back. So that's the other way it's done so that's in theory the way it could have handled if it happened -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Well a question for Mitchell as a pilot, do you know exactly where to evade radar?

MITCHELL: Yes, I mean it would be a matter of studying the charts, but it's not something that you know that we're not used to I mean you're doing that everyday anyway, just looking for charts and you see the boundary, lateral boundary and the vertical boundary and you say, OK, I'm just going to skirt around it.

SAVIDGE: We should point out Carol that you know just because you go around the country, it could mean that you're trying to avoid their air space. It doesn't necessarily mean you avoid their radar. They could have picked you up, they just wouldn't have known who you were. And they may not have cared because you weren't really in their air space.

But let me show you one other theory that is out there that could have been handled and I need Mitchell to bring this up to one that was posted on the Internet it's been talked about fairly seriously and here it is, if you look out front, this is the idea of that somehow this aircraft could have shadowed another jumbo jet, assuming it knew one was going to be up there, knew roughly the course, and it would fly this close, which is actually terrifying to stay in the radar signature. In other words, two planes could effectively look as one, but I got to ask you, Mitchell, what would it be like flying in the wake of something like that?

CASADO: Well, imagine being, you know, behind a really big cruise ship going at full power and --

SAVIDGE: It's like a truck on the highway?

CASADO: Exactly you're going to get all of that weight (ph) turbulence all that rough air is going to be bumping the aircraft.

SAVIDGE: And then you have to follow him precisely. For instance if he's going to turn.

CASADO: You have to go to turn exactly.

SAVIDGE: Just give us what would it look like with the turn up here?

CASADO: Well if you turn the aircraft, you know, you can see, you're going to have to match them turn for turn.

SAVIDGE: Otherwise you risk being revealed, Carol. So it's a -- it's a fascinating idea, can you bring the plane down just a bit? And we'll give you another view of this. There you go you're looking at -- again, to think that you're going to follow and maybe be flying manually, a little lower, lower -- maybe there. It would be quite troubling to try and remain this close for hours and then of course, you have to know when this guy is going to land, because if you don't, once he descends, you're left suddenly popping up on radar.

COSTELLO: Right.

SAVIDGE: An interesting theory, but certainly in this particular case, it is doubtful that it was used. But looking at it from the cockpit here, it's pretty fascinating.

COSTELLO: OK so -- so I want to bring in Tom Foreman and talk about this -- this theory that the plane skirted Indonesia. Which would may -- which would mean this plane took two turns, essentially. So Tom Foreman, take us through the plane's final route.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes if -- if they're correct about all of their ideas about where it went, then yes, it skirted Indonesia. The question is what kind of meaning do you put in that? It would have gone from here, across Malaysia, you can see easily that if it would have continued this way Carol, of course it would have gone over Indonesia over here over Sumatra. But there was a turn then it goes out here to the tip and turns again.

So yes, you could argue that this and the event back over here would both suggest that it was under some kind of control. Now here I the tricky part about this, would this take it beyond the -- the territorial control of Indonesia -- somewhere about 14 miles off the coast there? Yes, it would do that. Would it necessarily take it beyond the radar range, which might be 200 miles or so?

And by the way, Banda Aceh has an international airport right out here which would clearly have this within its range unless there's something we really don't know about here it wouldn't take it beyond the radar range.

So when they talk about avoiding the air space, I'm not sure entirely what that means. It's possible, yes, it's headed this way, but even the suggestion Carol, that it was headed off for some nefarious purpose, well what is that because despite a few scattered islands out here, that are very small, there's no sense of where it would be going if it did this.

So the idea that it went around Indonesia, that seems to be established by the data, if the data is correct. The interpretation, the idea that this was done for some purposeful reason, that's a different question all together Carol and that's where the biggest questions have to be raised. Was this an accident of a disabled crew or a disabled aircraft? Or a design? And if it was a design, does that really avoid Indonesian detection? I would not think so -- Carol.

COSTELLO: OK well let's go to Nic Robertson because he uncovered this information. When the source told you that the plane may have skirted Indonesia, did they add anything to that?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, it's difficult to say. I mean what we can say from here is I have talked to various people who have a good level of knowledge, one who has flown this particular aircraft, this airframe before, was himself a pilot at Malaysian Airlines.

I have talked to air accident investigators and they say when you have this type of information as it is presented now -- and I have to say this former Malaysian aircraft pilot is also a friend of Captain Zaharie's. And he put it to me this way. He said "Emotionally, I don't want to go there, logically I have nowhere else to turn."

What does he mean by that? He means that it seems to him and the former air accident investigator I have talked to and other people here that I have talked to as well, say that it seems that whoever was at controls of the aircraft was trying to fly it into a place where it wouldn't be seen by radar, that it would sort of fly off, if you will, into open territory, a cone of radar silence, was how one person put it to me.

And the belief and understanding was that at that time of the morning the aircraft would be flying towards sunrise with the aim for the person at the controls to put this aircraft down as gently as possible on the water so that the aircraft would then disappear below leaves intact -- not leave a debris field, not leave a great trail of sort of radar information about where it was at what time. Potentially the person flying the aircraft they say wasn't aware of the hand shakes from the INMARSAT satellite.

So the logical conclusion that all these experts come to is that the reason for flying the plane in this way was to take it off and essentially disappear. And that's why they said it's emotionally a very difficult conclusion to come to. Again, this is their theory, a number of experts' theory, there's no evidence to prove this at this time. And it doesn't answer who precisely was at the control of the aircraft -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Wow. Nic Robertson, thanks so much.

Martin Savidge, Mitchell Casado, Tom Foreman -- thanks to all of you, too.

Still to come in the news room, Jeb Bush says the debate over illegal immigration needs to move past, quote, "Harsh rhetoric". A live report out of Washington coming your way next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Checking some other top stories this morning at 51 minutes past the hour.

In Ukraine, pro Russian protesters have ceased government buildings in three Eastern Ukrainian cities. Russian state media says that one group of demonstrators has formed their own republic and is now asking Russia to send in peace keepers.

Ukraine's prime minister says the protests are all part of Moscow's plan to destabilize the country. On Sunday Ukraine's defense ministry says a Russian soldier shot and killed a Ukrainian naval officer in Crimea.

Heavy rains and a violent tornado swept across parts of the south this morning. The National Weather Service says a tornado hit (inaudible) Mississippi which is about 60 miles southeast of Jackson. That same storm system dumped several inches of rain in Birmingham, flooding roads and stranding motorists.

One of Hollywood's biggest stars Mickey Rooney has died. Rooney's career on stage and on the big screen spanned nearly 80 years. His family says he died of natural causes at his Los Angeles home on Sunday. Shortly after hearing the news of his death, fans laid flowers on Rooney's star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Mickey Rooney was 93 years old.

Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush says the debate over immigration needs to move past the divisive language sometimes used to describe illegal immigrants. Speaking at an event celebrating the 25th anniversary of his father's presidency, Bush said that people who come to the U.S. illegally are often looking for ways to provide for their families and that is a, quote, "act of love".

CNN congressional correspondent, Dana Bash is following this, she joins us live from Washington. Good morning Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Carol.

You know what Jeb Bush said about immigration is really what sets him apart from almost all other potential presidential candidates on the Republican side. He's unafraid, even eager to take on illegal immigration as a humanitarian issue, not as most in his party do a criminal one. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, FORMER GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: The dad who loved their children was worried that their children didn't have food on the table and they wanted to make sure their family was intact. And they crossed the boarder because they had no other means to work to be able to provide for their family.

Yes, they broke the law, but it's not a felony. It's kind of a -- it's an act of love. It's an act of commitment to your family. I honestly think that that is a different kind of crime that should be -- there should be a price paid, but it shouldn't be, it shouldn't rile people up that people are actually coming to this country to provide for their families.

And the idea that we're not going to fix this but with comprehensive reform ends up trapping these people when they could make a great contribution for their own families but also for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I was talking to a source who's familiar with his thinking, who was reminding me that his point of view was different from many other Republicans because he interacts with immigrants every day, he speaks Spanish fluently. His wife is Mexican-born. For him this isn't an abstract issue.

But you know, we certainly heard him voice support for illegal immigrants this way before. The fact that he's making a point of doing this now on a rare public appearance is noteworthy politically because Carol, you know, one of the main reasons there are a lot of powerful Republican donors and strategist out there who want him to run is because he can broaden the party beyond white voters which he desperately needs to survive nationally long term. But if he also runs you see there if there's going to be a really stark contrast between him and other Republican candidates especially on this issue but others as well.

COSTELLO: I'm sure he was asked if he was going to run for president in 2016. What did he say?

BASH: He said -- he did and he said he was going to decide at the end of the year. He's suggested that before and he's also suggested that a lot of it depends on his family, people close to him have been saying that for months. He also said that he has to figure out whether if in today's day and age he can run on a hopeful and optimistic message and not get sucked into -- these are my words not his -- what we were saying is, you know, the small ball tactics that political campaigns have often become.

A source close to him said that this is coming from the fact that he really is at his heart a policy guy, much more than a tactician as many other Republicans are, Democrats as well -- high profile politicians. But the elephant in the world what was unsaid, of course, is whether the party and the country is ready for another Bush no matter how different he is or similar to his brother or his father. That is going to be a major factor for people around him and certainly for potential Republican voters.

COSTELLO: Dana Bash, thanks as always.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Before I hand it off to Berman and Michaela, I want to take you to Wall Street for a quick check of the markets. They're down more than 100 points right now -- wondering what's up with that. Alison Kosik is live at the New York Stock Exchange. So tell us

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Yes, you are seeing investors get rid of risky stocks ahead of earnings seasons. First quarter earnings season begins this week. That's when companies are going to be turning in their performance or their report cards for how they did in January, February and March of this year.

So you're seeing that nervousness play out today because investors really want to see some hard numbers before they continue pumping up the stocks as much as stocks have been pumped up. We're going to start hearing from some of the big banks at the end of the week.

So today what you're seeing is a lot of the big name momentum stocks losing ground like Google, Amazon and Facebook. You know, kind of hard to believe the Dow and the S&P 500, they touched all-time highs early on Friday before Friday's big sell-off before we all left for the weekend. Kind of seems to be a distant memory right now.

But some are saying the weakness may be just temporary, especially when you look at tech shares, although the Nasdaq -- the tech-heavy Nasdaq has been really taking a beating the past couple of sessions. Some believe that textures will come back -- Carol.

COSTELLO: We'll see. Alison Kosik live at the New York Stock Exchange.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"@THIS HOUR" with Berman and Michaela starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Huge news in the search for Flight 370. Officials say major developments could happen in days, if not hours.