Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Flight 370 Pings Detected?

Aired April 07, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, in for Brooke Baldwin. Thanks so much for joining me.

It's being called an amazing stroke of luck. The U.S. Navy's pinger locater has detected two signals consistent with an airplane's black box. This ship, the Ocean Shield, first detected a series of pings that lasted approximately two hours and 20 minutes. Then it lost the signal. It turned back around and, again, the pinger picked up another signal, this one lasting about 13 minutes.

Both sounds were different, which is what we would expect from two separate pingers. Now, on the flight data recorder and the other from the cockpit voice recorder, that's where the difference is. But the head of the search task force says until they actually have evidence, they can't be sure if indeed this is the plane.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIR CHIEF ANGUS HOUSTON, JOINT AGENCY COORDINATION CENTER: I need to be honest with you. It could take some days before the information is available to establish whether these detections can be confirmed as being from MH370. In very deep oceanic water, nothing happens fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And when he says deep, he means waters some three miles deep. A U.S. underwater drone, the Blue Fin, is prepared to scour the ocean floor where the latest pings were heard.

And as the search continues, so does speculation about what actually happened inside that cockpit. A senior source inside the Malaysian military is now telling CNN that the plane may have steered a curious course around Indonesian airspace, a route that suggests an intent to actually avoid radar detection.

Let's get straight to the search, day 32 in the hunt to find Flight 370.

CNN's Will Ripley live once again for us in Perth, Australia.

So, Will, now that the Ocean Shield has detected these signals, what's next and how time-consuming will this whole process be?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's next is there are still two simultaneous search operations happening. There's the aerial search, the search for debris floating on the ocean. Planes are taking off just hours from now from this air base where I'm standing. So far, they have come up empty, even in the area where the Ocean Shield detected the pings. And that is the other phase of the search happening right now, underwater, the Ocean Shield literally racing against time, trying to listen and relocate those signals, those two separate signals that they found over the weekend, one for about two hours, the other for about 15 minutes.

If they can find those signals, they can zero in on an area where they believe that wreckage might be and that would be pretty remarkable, according to a man who is leading the team of people who are operating the equipment. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. MARK MATTHEWS, U.S. NAVY: If we can locate this wreckage and salvage the important components, it's just going to be a phenomenal event, because I don't think in the history of aircraft searches, we have ever started with such inexact information to identify where the aircraft went in the water.

It certainly would be a miracle if this does turn out to be the aircraft location and certainly a tremendous effort by that international team up in Kuala Lumpur.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: Strong language from Captain Mark Matthews of the U.S. Navy, but an even stronger warning that we need to be cautious here, because as you mentioned, Kyra, no physical evidence right now. We're more than a month in and they're listening for pings from black boxes with batteries that could literally die at any moment.

PHILLIPS: Sure. We're talking about being cautious. What happens if the Ocean Shield can't pick up another signal? Do they just move on?

RIPLEY: They don't move on from this area and here's why. Because they were able to detect two separate signals, that obviously leads them to believe that this, compiled with the satellite data, the calculations as far as fuel consumption from the aircraft, they think they may be on to something.

And possibly if they don't detect another signal it could just be because the batteries died. But this is the problem. The next step would be deploying that underwater drone submarine. That is a much more time-consuming process. One day with a towed pinger locator would take a week of work with the underwater drone.

So they are really hoping that they can try to zero in on this signal -- that's what they're trying to right now -- to see if they can box in a specific area and then get down there and scan the ocean floor and see what they can find.

PHILLIPS: All right. Will Ripley, thanks so much. Joining us now from Seattle, CNN analyst Rob McCallum, also from Washington, Steve Wallace, former director at the FAA's Office of Accident Investigation.

So, guys, I want to ask you both this. It sounds really promising. This is the biggest lead yet. And these frequencies, they are pretty specific, right?

Steve, go ahead.

STEVE WALLACE, FORMER FAA ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR: Yes, OK.

Yes, that's right. I think we're seeing -- a good development is that now we're seeing a professional level of caution of jumping to conclusions, something we have not seen consistently through this investigation.

But it appears that this is about the best sign of hope that we have had yet. It all fits the best calculation of the fuel consumption of the airplane and the location as recalculated from those Inmarsat pings, and now we have this very high-tech U.S. equipment apparently with some level of assurance locating this ping.

So, it's probably the highest hopes we have had in several days. At the same time, all of the speakers here are showing a good measure of caution.

PHILLIPS: And, Rob, let me -- I want to ask you the same question. Do you still feel pretty good about this? And I also want to throw out, if it's not the pinger, right, what could it be?

ROB MCCALLUM, OCEAN SEARCH SPECIALIST: I am very optimistic. They are searching in this place as the result of a lot of calculation and recalculation and analysis and reanalysis based on the data that they had.

So it's no coincidence that Ocean Shield is in this very particular part of the ocean. But also you have got people who are trained to use this equipment. It's top of the line. They are very experienced at what they're doing. And they have got not one, but two signals now. That is very, very encouraging.

PHILLIPS: All right, so you guys both sound very optimistic about this. Here is what a lot of us want to know, that if indeed this is a home run and we find what we're looking for, the boxes are there, at what point could we actually see wreckage?

Go ahead, Steve.

WALLACE: I think that, you know, they will deploy the side-scanning sonar and the other equipment even, camera equipment, I think it's -- I'm not an expert to speculate on that. I think it could be a matter of days. I still think this search area is enormous as compared to Air France. This is a way more difficult -- a way more difficult challenge. PHILLIPS: Rob, your thoughts?

MCCALLUM: You know, to tow the pinger locator across this area takes around seven hours to cross the area and then do a three-hour turn at the end.

So you're going to get a couple of sweeps per today. Hopefully, today, they will complete their third and fourth sweeps. That will give us a good indication of what is on bottom. If the pinger has gone silent, then they will have to launch the AUV. The AUV will take a full day, 24 hours, to conduct a search, and then another few hours after that to download and process that data. So, within a couple of days, you're going to have a much better indication than we have now.

PHILLIPS: In just a little more detail, explain UAV.

MCCALLUM: The autonomous underwater vehicle.

PHILLIPS: AUV.

MCCALLUM: AUV.

This one is the Blue Fin 21. It's launched off the ship, it swims down to the sea floor. And it can be fitted with a range of packages. The first package it will be fitted with is side-scan sonar, which uses acoustics to provide imagery of the sea floor and to try and find any wreckage.

When it returns to the surface, that data is analyzed. If they see wreckage, they will swap out the package and put a camera package on and then they will go down and photograph.

PHILLIPS: And that's what we want to see. And how quickly could we see those photographs? Is that real time or is that a process as well?

MCCALLUM: No, it's a process as well. The AUV is not tethered at all. It's a free-swimming device, which means that when it comes back to the surface, it has to be recharged and the data has to be downloaded and analyzed. When you're looking at data from an AUV, you're looking at something that occurred previously, usually the day before.

PHILLIPS: Rob, Steve, thanks so much, guys.

WALLACE: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, coming up, the challenges of the Indian Ocean. We're talking depth, currents, now a major cyclone blowing through the area. Will we ever find that debris from Flight 370. We're talking about that.

Plus, a source telling CNN that the plane actually skirted Indonesian airspace. So, was the pilot actually trying to avoid radar detection? We're asking a pilot to explain this new flight path next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: I'm Kyra Phillips. Welcome back to our special coverage of the missing Malaysian airliner.

A month since that airplane vanished, we have this tantalizing clue now involving a turnaround in Indonesia. We learned about this yesterday.

CNN's Tom Foreman is joining us live out of New York, and then here in Atlanta, former pilot Kit Darby joining us.

But, Tom, I want to start with you. If you would, just walk us through this new information about this jog about Indonesia that we have learned.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is what the Malaysian authorities are saying.

What they're really talking to is motive, because we have talked about this idea physically before. The idea is that the plane came up here, made this turn, came down over the Strait of Malacca, and then swept around the end of Sumatra before heading down this way.

Now, let's go back through this step by step and talk about why this matters. If the plane were simply heading across Malaysia, like this, as they believe it was, then you would naturally expect it to go right down over here, but it took a turn here. So this is their first hint that something unusual is happening.

Then, if it goes past that point from this turn out here, again, you find yourself saying it would keep going this way naturally, but instead another turn occurred, and this turn took it right around the tip of Sumatra up here.

This is interesting because this area right there is where the Banda Aceh Airport is, national airport. Would it be just beyond the control area of that airport? Yes. Whether it's beyond their radar sweep, technically, it probably shouldn't be, but they say they didn't see anything. Obviously, they didn't see it. So, this supports the theory that it was somehow trying to get past all of that, if you believe that theory.

And then of course it headed down this way, according to the theory, and now possibly is somewhere in these waters down here. But that's what makes them believe this, Kyra, the idea that it made these unusual turns here. And if it made the unusual turns, why did it make the unusual turns? Because if it were disabled, if the people couldn't fly it, why would it keep making such dramatic movements, as opposed to simply drifting in one direction for a long time, Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Kit, can you add to that? I'm wondering is it possible they could have been hypoxic?

FOREMAN: Well, one of the theories is just that.

(CROSSTALK) PHILLIPS: Kit, so Tom is saying that is one of the theories.

Kit, you're a pilot. What do you think?

KIT DARBY, RETIRED COMMERCIAL PILOT: I don't think hypoxic.

Hypoxia, you basically lose your function. The pilots have oxygen, the passengers have a limited amount of oxygen. But this airplane is being flown. I also believe that not only did it turn initially and descend, it climbed back up and went around the tip of Indonesia.

PHILLIPS: Somebody had to conscious?

DARBY: Absolutely, somebody is flying the plane. Whether the pilot has a gun to his head or it's the pilot himself or some other circumstance, but it's not a disabled cockpit and crew. Somebody is flying the plane.

PHILLIPS: All right, then, Tom, we have heard the turnaround, Indonesia, might have been an effort to avoid detection by radar. Whoever was flying, might they have also been concerned about being shot down?

FOREMAN: I suppose they might, but here is the one thing I have a question about this and maybe you all have some theories about this.

If the whole point is to avoid contact with happen, then why would you keep hugging along the coast here, even though it's quite a distance out and heading toward Australia? Why wouldn't you go out here? If the whole idea was to go where nobody was, there is a lot more emptiness out here than up here. These are the kind of clues that constantly make us go back over and over, as you know, Kyra.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Yes, Kit, jump in.

DARBY: I don't think -- the object could be to avoid detection, but they were way too close. They could have easily been detected where they were. I'm surprised they were not detected.

They could simply trying not to be threatening. If they are not turning towards the country -- we saw this from Thailand. They asked, did they enter your airspace? No. And 10 days later, we find out they have terrific radar information about the flight.

If you turn towards them, then they might do something. But if you're simply trying to avoid a threat then you could fly around and then of course his point is well taken. They could go other places. Why they went this way, no one knows.

PHILLIPS: Well, as we all know, if an aircraft flies into an airspace and we don't know about that individual, we learned from 9/11 you have to respond immediately. There is no waiting and watching.

DARBY: No, not here any more. That's for sure. But there late at night -- these are smaller countries with lower resources. They're used to airplanes with transponders and they probably haven't been attacked in a really long time. Odds are that they are a little bit snoozy right now. It's midnight.

PHILLIPS: Tom?

FOREMAN: Kyra, can I ask one quick question here?

PHILLIPS: Yes.

FOREMAN: In this day and time with the state of the world, is any 777 flying where it doesn't belong not automatically a threat? Whether or not it's aiming at something, I think everybody in the world would say this is some kind of threat because it doesn't belong here.

DARBY: True, but they didn't -- this time the primary radar image and they have no idea what the size of the airplane is. They just know it's a blip on their map and it's heading around their country and it's not headed towards them.

PHILLIPS: And speed, right?

DARBY: It's not going fighter speed. It's going airplane, airliner speed. Not viewed as a threat.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Tom, anything else?

FOREMAN: I think that this theory, the problem with the whole idea that this was somehow what was done here to avoid Indonesian airspace, maybe.

But there are so many what-ifs here, as I think we can all agree. From the beginning, the only thing we have been able to say really with absolute certainty from the beginning here is that the plane took off and up here it disappeared and everything else becomes a string of conjecture about why and where it went.

PHILLIPS: The title of this segment, what if.

Tom Foreman, thanks so much. Always appreciate your insight.

And, Kit, stay with me. Up next, a closer look at the challenges of the Indian Ocean. We are talking depth, currents, weather.

Chad Myers is also here to explain how all of this is impacting the search.

Plus, happening right now, Chinese families are holding a pretty emotional vigil to mark one month since that plane went missing. We will take you live to Beijing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: All eyes are focused on the area where an Australian navy ship picked up signals that could be from the flight data and cockpit voice recorders.

It's the first sign of hope for crews searching for missing Malaysia Flight 370. The sounds that were heard in part of the Indian Ocean that nearly -- we're talking about 15,000-feet deep. Three miles. What's more? There was a cyclone in that same area not long ago.

CNN meteorologist Chad Myers is here to talk more about the challenges these searchers face.

Where do you want to begin? Maybe with the cyclone, right? The current? Talk speed, talk, you know, what could have happened if anything was in that spot.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: We talked about this three weeks ago and said it's no big deal. It's thousands of miles away.

Guess what? Our search area is now thousands of miles from where it was. And this 160 miles per hour could have been a super typhoon. Typhoon, cyclone, hurricane, all the same thing. I wish we could just call it the same thing, but even Americans couldn't get Celsius back in the 70s. Right? We're still calling it three different things. It's the same type of storm.

PHILLIPS: OK. Just to make clear, the boxes, they hit, they drop, that's it. But when we talk about debris and when we talk about wreckage of an aircraft and you have got that type of current coming through, it's possible that we won't find anything within that area, yes?

MYERS: Absolutely. At this point in time, that was 160-mile-per-hour storm.

There were winds because of going in the opposite direction, winds here, 160, blowing stuff that way, blowing stuff that way and then this continued right on down to our ping location as it died off. It was not as big back then, but it was a Category 5 hurricane.

Talk about this being a washing machine and I think Ashleigh Banfield said it earlier. It was a blender inside of a washing machine, because all of a sudden you have all this stuff going on. Anything that had the potential to float was going to get filled up with water and it was going to sink, just distributing this stuff all over the place.

And even though it isn't as bad now, look, this is where the ping was and this is our van Gogh picture we have seeing.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: I am looking for the scream somewhere within. MYERS: Exactly. But this is kind of what's going on in this general area here, but only about two to three miles per hour, so not a lot. And even in here, we're less than a mile per hour. Things aren't getting blown around now, but they are scattered.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: OK. So, for what scattered -- and I was trying to look at the map and then your fancy movement took it. I was trying to figure out where years from now debris could turn up on beaches.

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: Certainly.

PHILLIPS: Yes. I was just trying to find like where would the shoreline -- you have got Perth. Right? Darwin. I'm just wondering where if possible down the road something could wash ashore.

MYERS: Here's the rub. Let's say there is debris there from wherever it might be.

There is a gyre, the South Indian gyre, and that brings the current up something like this, almost like our Gulf Stream that takes stuff off the shore. It goes up this way and then it comes back around this way. If it really truly was here, this debris could be in this gyre for years and years and years or it could eventually even end toward Jakarta out of port of Indonesia back towards Malaysia where we think the plane eventually came from. It's that big left-hand turn.

Weather pretty good today. There is a couple of showers and a couple of fronts out there, but winds are 10 to 15 miles per hour. They could handle that, compared to what was there before.

PHILLIPS: All right, Chad, thank you so much.

MYERS: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: All right, we are taking you in the water. We have got the maps. Now we are actually going to sort of dissect the black box.

We have a got a device similar to the one that could hold the key to solving this mystery. We are going to show you everything from its pinger to what's on the inside, to how it works.

Plus, Malaysia Airlines getting a lot of criticism for the way that it's handling the missing plane. Coming up next, I'm going to talk live an American crisis consultant. He actually traveled to Kuala Lumpur and advised airline leaders who have been blasted by frustrated families on a daily basis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)