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Kerry: Russia Destabilizing Ukraine; Key Clues could be in Flight 370 Debris; Royal Family on Tour in New Zealand and Australia; Passing the Civil rights Act of 1964

Aired April 08, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, more developing news out of Ukraine this morning. Talks of civil war and terrorism threaten to implode that country. Now comes word that a U.S. Navy warship will enter the Black Sea no later than Thursday. The "USS Donald Cook" will take part in the exercises and port visits while in the Black Sea.

U.S. Secretary of John Kerry just spoke at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Russia and Ukraine. Our foreign affairs reporter Elise Labott is following that from Washington. What did he say?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Basically he was talking about Russian actions are clear and unmistakable, he called this situation in Eastern Ukraine with pro-Russian separatist storming Ukrainian buildings have quote, "Contrived crisis with Russia's clear involvement" and he said "It won't stand." Carol he's been talking with Foreign Minister Lavrov over the last several days trying to make clear to Russia that there will be very strong costs if Russia continues.

But clearly President Putin seems undeterred and it's just really what the U.S. is going to do. What is that formula that is going to make President Putin stand down and certainly they haven't figured that out yet.

COSTELLO: Let's go to Moscow and check in with Diana Magnay, she's there. So President Putin seems not to care what the United States is doing at this point. What's the reaction there?

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Carol. Yes but it's the case of trading accusations really. The U.S. is accusing the whole situation as having been orchestrated by Russia, Russia's foreign ministry in turn issuing a statement this morning saying that it looks as though there are American mercenaries involved in trying to crash the situation or control the situation issue in the east of Ukraine.

This statement saying that according to the available information to the Russians, Ukrainian forces accompanied by 150 American mercenaries belonging to the Greystone contractor, private security group and then members from the right sector who is always been categorized or characterized by Russia as fascists, who are out to take over eastern Ukraine that they are all on their way to the east to try and suppress these pro Russians from their protests. And that any kind of military preparations could lead to a civil war.

So very strong terms also from Russia accusing the West of basically orchestrating this situation.

COSTELLO: Right and of course the West and the United States accusing Russia of sending these fake protesters to Eastern Ukraine to destabilize the governments across that part of then country so then Russia will have to go in on its white horse and rescue Ukraine and maybe take over in Eastern Ukraine just like it did in Crimea.

So Jim, the U.S. has sent its Navy warship to the Black Sea. What's the next move for the Obama administration?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think that is the key question Carol because as Elise was saying they have not figured out the magic formula to stop Russia from violating Ukraine's territorial sovereignty.

And what you heard the White House Press Secretary Jay Carney say yesterday it was another threat from this White House if Russia goes in to eastern Ukraine, there will be further consequences and that means sanctions and sanctions going after Russia's very lucrative and oil gas industry. The question is whether or not that is enough of an impediment to prevent the Russians from going in.

And you heard Diana talking about U.S. mercenaries Russian accusations of U.S. mercenaries. You heard Jay Carney yesterday saying that there is evidence that these protesters in Eastern Ukraine are paid and not local residents. So the accusations are flying back and forth that sounds very, very familiar to what we saw happen in Crimea.

The question is of course whether or not this White House, whether this president can stop this from happening again in eastern Ukraine. If he cannot, that is going to be a very, very serious challenge to his credibility on the world stage.

COSTELLO: Any meetings between the U.S. and Russian diplomats that we know of Elise?

LABOTT: Well Secretary Kerry is trying to get together a meeting of the Ukrainian and Russian foreign ministers along with himself and the EU hoping to get that together in the next ten days, possibly somewhere in Europe. But Carol, if you start to see as we've been talking about Russia going into quote/unquote "protect these so-called Russian separatists", if you will, and there is active fighting, I'm not sure whether those talks about to take place.

But certainly the U.S. and the European allies are trying to find a way to diffuse the situation. The Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers are tiptoeing around each other. It's unclear whether they will be willing to sit down and get into the same room. Ukrainians are saying they to want to meet with Russia, but as we know Russia doesn't even recognize this government. So it really is kind of dragging Russia kicking and screaming to the table. COSTELLO: Elise Labott, Diana Magnay and Jim Acosta, thanks to all of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, crews racing locate the ping like signals heard in the Indian Ocean, but so far nothing. We'll have the latest on the investigation to find that missing flight next.

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COSTELLO: In the 32 days since Flight 370 vanished, search teams have scoured the Indian Ocean for any clues to the plane's disappearance and so far nothing has been found.

But if it is, how will the debris be used to help solve the mystery? Stephanie Elam joins me now from the University of Southern California's Aviation Safety and Security Program with more on that part of the story. Good morning, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. There are a lot of clues that you can discern by looking at wreckage. Something you may not think about, but we wanted to bring you here to USC's accident investigation lab where you can see we've got plenty of wreckage here that can help piece together clues and tell us things about wreckage.

I want to introduce you to Tom Anthony he is the director of the program. And Tom when you take a look at this, you're saying that there are so many clues that you can take away from an accident.

TOM ANTHONY, DIRECTOR, USC AVIATION SAFETY AND SECURITY PROGRAM: An accident site is inherently overwhelming. It's overwhelming by the violence that's conveyed by this torn metal, but the complexity of all the pieces. And of this conveyed I electronic message and it's also overwhelming from the perspective of the general disorder.

ELAM: And when you look at this, it's impressive. When you look and you see just how torn up a plane could be, even down to like to say this door that is just ripped off.

ANTHONY: Indeed. But this aircraft here it's important to remember only weighed 10,000 pounds. Malaysian 370 weighed 600,000 pounds. So imagine while this aircraft and the Malaysian 777 were powered by two jet engines and both flew high above the earth, this aircraft is only 160th the size therefore the wreckage could only be 160th of the size of the 777.

ELAM: So when they find it, the debris field will probably be a lot larger, if they find it.

ANTHONY: And such a thing as this, we could expect this as a door from this wreckage aircraft, this could be expected, could have been expected to have been floating on the surface no longer with that turbo engine.

But look here at this -- we teach the discipline to observe and document, but also to step back and notice. Notice what? Notice the overwhelming energy that has been absorbed by this part of the wreckage. This is the part of the aircraft that struck the ground first. This is the part of the aircraft that absorbed the energy.

ELAM: And this is the lesson that could be taken from looking at planes like this and taking a look at this kind of wreckage. And if the plane is found Carol taking that data and applying it to another case like the 777 and looking at this wreckage saying this may have been what happened. So these are the kind of clues that they will be using, the kind of technology and science that they will be breaking down if and when that 777 wreckage is found.

COSTELLO: All right, Stephanie.

ANTHONY: Indeed as we look in --

COSTELLO: Have your guest finish his thoughts Stephanie.

ANTHONY: If we look inside to these.

ELAM: OK, go ahead you should finish it right now, he's going to over there and just really quickly, Tom, just to show us this part because then you can move on. But just to show that the gauges sometimes are a clue.

ANTHONY: Well the very important thing is while these gauges here may or may not be true, the lesson that they imply to us is that we have to look beyond the surface of the gauge and to look at the memory and what they it actually represent, and what's behind them.

ELAM: And what's behind them and so that's where that clue is. It may not be on the surface, it may be behind the gauges, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right thank you so much.

ANTHONY: And that's the metaphor for the investigation as a whole.

COSTELLO: Thank you both of you. Grisly to look at but quite fascinating.

OK. So let's talk about the investigation and where it goes from here. As I said, they didn't detect any more pings coming down from deep in the ocean 133 searches. They found no debris either. I'm talking about searchers in the southern Indian Ocean.

I'm joined by now CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes and John Magaw; he's the former undersecretary for the TSA and former director of the Secret Service. Welcome, gentlemen.

JOHN MAGAW, FORMER DIRECTOR, SECRET SERVICE: Good morning Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning, thank you so much for being here. Tom, it seems like nothing is evolving in this investigation, but that's not exactly true. They have narrowed the search area based on what they've gathered on land, right?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right. You know they're going by the pings that they heard over the weekend and hoping that that narrows it down and somewhere in that vicinity they're going to find the rest of the boxes themselves and the wreckage.

COSTELLO: And are they still studying radar tracks John? Is there still something to find out from the satellites or something out there?

MAGAW: Well, I think that they have looked pretty hard at that and I think by now that they have probably used up all of their availability to find something there.

But you know the key thing here, too, Carol as we move forward is don't forget the who, what, where, when, why and how of this aircraft tragedy. I know we think of the families. But if we don't keep on the investigative side of it, and also you started, CNN started the discussion of what do now, how can we fix this aircraft so it reduces the risk in the future. We should keep that going at the same time at looking for the pieces because if you let it get it too far beyond the event, it takes a long time to get something done. As now you have rear view cameras in your automobile in the next two years. It took 25 years to get that done.

So you've been out front on the who, what, when, where, why and how. And you've been out front on how do we fix this so it reduces the risk. Don't lose that as we go along.

COSTELLO: We're going to try. And thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. Tom, back to the investigation for just a second, do you know if the FBI is still involved?

FUENTES: Yes, the FBI is very involved. They don't want more said about that fact, but the FBI is closely working with the Royal Malaysian Police. Has been from the first night the plane disappeared.

COSTELLO: So we know that the plane made that turn around Indonesia and we don't know why it made that turn, but it seems like somebody was trying to evade radar maybe. Do we know anything more about that?

FUENTES: I wouldn't even go so far as to say we know that as an absolute fact. Many people are not convinced that the Indonesian radar is even good enough to maybe have -- that it could have missed the plane going across the Indonesian land mass, the island of Sumatra.

So they're basically saying because Indonesia says they didn't see it on their radar, it had to have made that other loop around the island of Sumatra and then head south in the Indian Ocean. But it's kind of based on a negative, not that they absolutely know that from other radars that that's a fact that handed.

And then of course when they assume that that is what happened, then they assume why it happened. And what was the pilot thinking. Well, he must have been avoiding radar or he must have been doing something else. All of that is conjecture and many of the investigators are not convinced of those facts. Not that it didn't happen but they don't know for a fact that it did happen.

COSTELLO: And John along the lines of what you were saying, if we had better tracking of aircraft, maybe we wouldn't be wondering these things today.

MAGAW: Well, that's correct. And I think that is one of the things we need to look at and also the black box, the transparency in the cockpit -- all those kind of things which are going to put lives in jeopardy in the future if we have a copy cat. And that's what we have to be careful of now I believe throughout the world, a copycat.

COSTELLO: John Magaw, Tom Fuentes -- thanks so much.

FUENTES: You're welcome Carol.

COSTELLO: I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Prince George is beginning his royal duties with a public play date on Wednesday. It is the eight-month-old's only official appearance during the royal family's three-week tour of New Zealand and Australia.

Royal commentators Victoria Arbiter and Richard Fitzwilliams join me now. Welcome.

VICTORIA ARBITER, ROYAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

RICHARD FITZWILLIAMS, ROYAL COMMENTATOR: Hello.

COSTELLO: I must say it was fun to see pictures of the baby. So what more can we expect from Prince George's first official public appearance, Victoria?

ARBITER: I think that was what everyone was waiting for and hoping for was to see Kate walk off the plane holding George. It's the first time we've seen him on film or certainly out in public since his christening.

Now tomorrow really is going to be a highlight. George is expected to join his parents for an informal engagement at the Governor General's residence in Wellington, ten multicultural families have been selected to meet William and Kate and Baby George. Each of them has a baby that was born a week or two either side of George.

So of course depending on his mood and the jet lag, we're hoping to see him make an appearance tomorrow. And actually we're going to see history come full circle because it was back in 1983 at that exact same residence that the public saw Prince William crawl for the very first time. So lovely to see the family make a return and indeed William with his baby in tow.

COSTELLO: So Richard, can we expect to see Prince George more often?

FITZWILLIAMS: Well, of course we couldn't see enough of him. And I think I speak for much of the rest of the world. There is no doubt that every photo opportunity which features Prince George has got a vast audience of every newspaper and every television station knows this. As a result, there will be tremendous pressure that we would wish to see more of him.

If I would choose a moment in the tour where we might see him, may I suggest the visit to the zoo in Sydney because if you could imagine against, for example, a Republican movement in Australia that seems rather stagnant these days, if we have a picture of Prince George -- a photograph with a building which has a lot of fascinating very cuddly- looking marsupial or perhaps some koala bear, I do think that will be absolutely enchanting.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I have to say I can't stop looking at that baby.

Victoria, question for you, the Duchess' red coat -- it sort of brings back images of Princess Diana, too. Is Kate this deliberately doing this?

ARBITER: No, I don't think she's doing anything deliberately. It's just going to be Kate's cross to bear being married to Prince William, son of Diana. It doesn't matter where she goes, what she does, if she wears a black dress, somebody dredges up a photograph of Diana and says that she's emulating her late mother-in-law.

She looked fantastic on arrival yesterday. She was wearing a dress by one of Diana's favorite designers who sadly passed away a few years ago -- Katherine Walker. And I think we'll see lots of references to Diana during this tour simply because Australia and New Zealand were the very first places, the very first countries that William got to visit with his family.

So I think that is just going to continue no matter what Kate does will be the comparisons to Diana.

COSTELLO: That's true. But I must say, Richard that the royal couple, they're batting a thousand. They can do no wrong.

FITZWILLIAMS: How right you are because this is what is so fascinating. If we have to continue comparing to Diana and what happened in 1983, that tour was exhausting. There's no question that Diana gained tremendously in confidence, but there's also no doubt that the marriage suffered the result because the Prince of Wales was irritated, that's not to say infuriated, by the amount of adulation and attention she got.

What we have with William and Kate, we've got mutually supportive. You can see they're in love, you can see that they're working so to speak together and also you can see that they're having downtime. There's no doubt that William made certain about that, that you haven't got a schedule that is too packed, that you have the right balance sporting activities, links with various regimens, obvious nods to certain specific activities the Christchurch earthquake where William actually went to the memorial service, tribute being paid to that.

So you have the balance, but you also the affection behind it and you can see that they're the world's most high profile glamorous royal couple and that is very important.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you both, Victoria Arbiter, Richard Fitzwilliams. I'll be right back.

ARBITER: Thank you.

FITZWILLIAMS: Right.

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COSTELLO: President Obama will deliver the keynote address at a three-day civil rights summit this week in Texas. It coincides with the 50-year anniversary of President Lyndon B. Johnson signing the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Shortly after, Johnson was sworn in he decided passing the act will be one of his first defining moments as president. However, it would be anything but a done deal.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is live in Austin with a look at how that bill was passed. Good morning Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning Carol. Well, obviously it's going to be three days, four presidents are going to be here at the LBJ Library and they're all celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act -- really an extraordinary time in our history.

Going to be talking about really a who's who talking about civil rights issues of today, whether it's gay rights, immigration, health care. But they are also going back -- back to the 60s to talk about the tumultuous time. How was it that the president LBJ, the congress and the people managed to get through that period and get this legislation passed?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: The nation was in turmoil. Young, predominantly black protesters against public discrimination on buses, in bathrooms and at lunch counters, were beaten and hosed down in the south. America's very democracy was at stake. And then, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated. Lyndon Baines Johnson was sworn in and decided to stake his early presidency on passing the Civil Rights Act.

LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No memorial or eulogy could more he eloquently honor President Kennedy's memory.

MALVEAUX: But the politics was nasty on Capitol Hill as the prejudice is on the streets of the South. Southern Democrats who felt their way of life was being threatened threw up hurdle after hurdle in the House. Across the Capitol Senators like Robert Byrd and Strom Thurmond filibustered, trying to talk the bill to death.

Richard Goodwin worked in the White House for Kennedy and then for President Johnson.

RICHARD GOODWIN, FORMER KENNEDY AND LBJ STAFF: He was from the south and he had seen firsthand, of course, the poor blacks and poor Mexican Americans and others who were not getting a fair break in society.

MALVEAUX: LBJ not only supported the bill, he also knew how to get it passed on Capitol Hill.

ANDREW YOUNG, CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: Johnson had -- he was the master of the Senate. And as Majority Leader, he knew where all the bodies were buried, he knew what everybody's weaknesses were.

MALVEAUX: So the new president worked the phones calling all sides.

YOUNG: He would be on the phone with Dr. King, then he would call Governor Wallace, then he'd call Senator Dirksen. And then he'd be on the phone with Richard Russell. And he was pulling out every stop.

DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, HISTORIAN: He'd call them in the morning. He'd call them at night. He'd have a cocktail with them. I mean there is a story of calling a senator at 2:00 in the morning and he said I hope I didn't wake you up. And the senator said, "No, just lying here in the bed hoping my president would call."

MALVEAUX: Johnson's arm twisting worked. The bill fought its way through Congress. The filibuster was broken by Republicans and Democrats. With his signature, LBJ made the Civil Rights Act of 1964 the law of the land following a ground swell of public support after violence and hate had tested the nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And Carol, it seems like such a long time ago, but you know, I remember as a little girl growing up my parents telling me stories about how they were not able to go to the neighborhood school or the swimming pool or the church because it was for whites only. They grew up in the rural south in Louisiana at the time.

And it really was about how far our country has come. And the question here that a lot of people are going to be asking is what makes it different the times of LBJ to the times now. Why can't we actually get more done in Washington and our country? And clearly there was a movement behind the president. He had a different relationship with Congress, but it was also the man himself, and that's what we'll be examining tomorrow.

What was it about this president that made it even possible for something like this to happen, this legislation, and, of course, the movement that was behind it?

Carol?

COSTELLO: Suzanne Malveaux, reporting live this morning, thanks so much.

And thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"@ THIS HOUR" with Berman and Michaela starts now.