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New Flight 370 Pings Detected?; Pennsylvania Stabbing Investigation Continues

Aired April 10, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin, top of the hour.

We have just learned that a U.S. Navy ship is now deploying to the Indian Ocean to resupply those ships involved in the search for Flight 370, this as we get word of another possible, let me caution, possible ping here coming from somewhere on the ocean floor. This time, the possible Flight 370 black box signal wasn't heard by the U.S. Navy's towed pinger locater, or the TPL; instead, it was heard by one of these sonobuoys.

You see them tossing them off these search aircraft. They are basically a floating microphone. The microphones get triggered once this thing hits water.

And if you are keeping tabs with us, which I know you are, this is now the fifth credible signal since Saturday. And here we are, bigger picture, one month-plus into this search, an explosive revelation from inside the Malaysian government, sources telling CNN that after the plane took that mysterious left turn, it vanished from radar, flying about 120 nautical miles. That's roughly 12 minutes there in air on the grid.

And according to all this information, the only way it could have avoided detection like this is if it made a rapid descent in altitude to somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,000, maybe 5,000 feet.

As for the final transmission from the cockpit, the voice heard, saying, "Good night, Malaysian 370," we have only now been told it was the captain, and not, as we have heard for weeks and weeks, the co- pilot of this 777.

Our experts analyzing these new developments this hour, everything from the movements of the plane to the pilot's last words.

But first let me take you to this -- really the launching point of this massive search, Perth, Australia, 3:00 in the morning there.

Let's go to Will Ripley with more on this word of this possible fifth signal, Will. Tell me more about what you're learning, this new U.S. Navy ship now deploying to the Indian Ocean.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Yes. This is the first -- the U.S. Navy ship, going to be the Cesar Chavez that will actually be resupplying the Ocean Shield and some of the other search ships in this area. So, this is important. We actually expect they might be stopping close to us here in Perth in the coming days.

So, we are definitely going to keep tabs on that and try to monitor their journey as well. And this is an indication, really, that these ships that are in this area are in it for the long haul. They need to stay out there. That's why they need supplies, because this important work of listening and doing a visual search continues.

The visual search area is smaller than ever, 22,000 square miles. They are scouring, looking for any sign of debris. We still don't have a single piece of the plane that has been recovered. And then of course there's this underwater searching happening. The Ocean Shield has now detected what they think are four possible pings from black boxes.

And then we have this new one detected by the sonar buoy that you mentioned, this new ping that is emitting a frequency that has investigators thinking that this is probably manmade. But they need to do data analysis. That data analysis actually happening as we speak, and if they call a press conference in the morning hours here, Brooke, it will be the evening hours on the East Coast.

You can bet they will announce something about whether this has turned out to be another confirmed black box ping, they believe, or not connected at all. So we hope -- we're definitely hoping to find out soon.

BALDWIN: We hope it is a good sign, as they continue to narrow in on this particular part of the Indian Ocean. Will Ripley, thank you very much.

Let's talk about this with aviation correspondent Richard Quest, and Michael Kay, a CNN aviation analyst, pilot, and former adviser to the British Defense Ministry.

So, gentlemen, hello.

LT. COL. MICHAEL KAY, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Hi, Brooke. How you doing?

Let's just first begin with -- I feel like we have to even be careful when we describe this I keep hearing drop vs. descent. Do we know for a fact whether it went from 30,000, 35,000 feet to quickly dropping or was it gradual? Was there intent?

KAY: I think we have got to be cautious, Brooke, because what we know is that the aircraft disappeared off of radar. We also know that primary radar goes out to around 125 to 150 miles.

What we have got to be cautious about is aligning altitude -- 4,000 to 5,000 feet has been put out there -- with the fact that it disappeared off the radar. We don't know that it was 4,000 or 5,000. There has been an assumption made that in order for it to disappear off radar at the range it was, it would have to be at around that.

(CROSSTALK)

KAY: But a 777 is a big wide-body jet, and it has a huge radar cross- section.

Radar is affected by humidity, precipitation in the air, weather. It's affected by all sorts of things. So, it's very hard to align an altitude to a range to weather to when it might possibly disappear off the radar.

BALDWIN: You looked like you were shaking your head a minute ago. Why?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The difficulty is the interpretation of the facts, because what the Malaysians have said is that it lost radar contact at I think it's 219 in the Strait of Malacca, if I'm not mistaken.

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: It's the reason and purpose behind that.

Was it because it descended so it was no longer visible? Was it because if came out of range? As Michael points out, the range is fairly limited. It is certainly more limited than people understand.

We also know it was then picked up by Thai radar. So there is an entire series of events around that time from the moment it does the turn to the moment it starts the long haul down into the South Indian Ocean where the detail is sketchy. Nothing has been released by the Malaysians. And that, I think is what we have to look at next.

BALDWIN: Michael, didn't I heard you say in another lifetime it was your job to avoid radar detection, right?

KAY: Yes, I was a weapons instructor. I ran the weapons school for helicopters in the U.K.

And it was our job basically to understand the way that radar works, the way that it tracks you, whether it's an air defense radar, whether it's a target tracking radar, the pulse repetition frequencies, the amplitudes of the signals, listening on the RWR, which is the radar warning receiver which we have in the cockpit.

And we basically flew, for fast jets, it was at 250 feet, or operational low flying 100 feet. For helicopters, it was 50 feet. That is pretty low. And you had to be at that altitude in order to make absolutely sure that a radar wasn't going to see you, because you use terrain masking. This is a 777.

QUEST: Which is why this 4,000 feet, it raises a very strong eyebrow, because 4,000 feet is -- as I understand everything you have said previously, 4,000 feet puts you on radar.

KAY: It depends on what the range is.

(CROSSTALK) QUEST: But if radar is available, 4,000 feet will pick it up.

KAY: If you're at 500 miles, you might be all right. If you're 100 miles, absolutely you will be right on the radar. If there is a weather storm passing through, it will reduce the sensitivity. If there's not and it's a clear day, you can see further.

But I think that issue here is we're overlapping the what and the why. We need to ascertain is what happened. And it goes back to the where, what, why. When we get the black boxes, we will understand what happened. Why it happened is still a huge investigation.

BALDWIN: I like that you say when. It sounds like Angus Houston is confident in Australia.

But let me switch gears and just ask about -- I still go back to the fact that, what are we, five weeks? I'm losing track. Five weeks since this thing took off, still no debris. How do you answer that question? If they are in the neighborhood, it's a massive search area, I know, but why have they found nothing?

QUEST: Two reasons, or two potential reasons, A, dispersal. If that is the case, then there is debris waiting to be found, now that they are forward-targeting where the debris would have gone and Angus Houston has said it's much more targeted.

If you notice where the planes are going, it's a much more refined area within a certain zone, because that's where they believe -- that's the first reason. And the second reason is slightly more adventurous, which is that is that the plane is substantially intact.

BALDWIN: I have heard myriad opinions on that from people saying absolutely it's a possibility, others saying like the miracle on the Hudson, that was an anomaly and there's no way could that have happened in the Indian Ocean.

QUEST: I said substantially intact.

BALDWIN: Substantially.

KAY: We still don't know, Brooke.

We have had Mitch and Marty in the simulator for the last five weeks doing a fantastic job. It only became apparent the other day, when people are making the assumption that the aircraft may have ran out of fuel as it extended southwards.

Mitch made a very good point, that if a pilot was in that situation, he would actually attempt a sea landing with power before he ran out of fuel. And I thought that was a wonderful point that was teased out after about four weeks on the way that a situation would play out, because if the pilot got it wrong, he would have a bit of fuel in the tanks to be able to go around and retry it again.

We're talking about a highly unlikely scenario, but nevertheless, we don't have enough evidence at the moment to rule it out and we don't have enough evidence to confirm it, so we're stuck in this middle ground.

BALDWIN: Right. We are stuck.

QUEST: We are stuck until they find -- Michael's right. It's the what, the when, and the why.

The why, I safely suggest, can be left to another day, even though it's fascinating. But it's the what.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.

But has it ever been done where it's possible they find the black boxes before they found surface debris?

QUEST: Never.

KAY: Never.

BALDWIN: Never?

KAY: They have never bypassed the haystack and zoned straight in on the needle. As far as I'm aware, in aviation history, this -- what is going on is unprecedented. And if it does end up in this area and if Angus Houston's optimism is correct, this will rewrite the way that accident investigations are conducted.

QUEST: If.

BALDWIN: Michael Kay and Richard Quest, gentlemen, thank you both very much.

KAY: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up here, much more on this missing plane.

Next, more on this new signal. Might it be a ping? We don't know yet here detected in the Indian Ocean. Can its location combined with the other signals finally lead us, as we were discussing, to those black boxes? We will talk to an expert on that, plus this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next thing I know, the kid (INAUDIBLE) and hits me in the back, and that's when everything just went into straight chaos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Incredible story here of this young man. This teenager who was stabbed early yesterday morning describes what happened to him. He explains the moments before those attacks in the hallways, in the classrooms at a Pittsburgh area high school.

Also more on this teenaged suspect next. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Back to our special coverage of the mystery that is Flight 370.

And might have wondered why these airborne crews are tossing buoys deep down into the water around the search area? Well, here's the deal. These buoys can actually send signals and receive signals as well, and today one of these buoys is said to have relayed something that might have come from Flight 370, maybe, maybe a ping from one of the black boxes.

Now we have signals from Saturday, we have signals from yesterday, and another signal today, so the search could be getting warmer.

Fred Hegg joins me live from Boston. He has helped design ping detectors and black boxes. He has been involved in deep ocean surveys. And he is vice president of engineering with Falmouth Scientific.

So, Fred, welcome.

FRED HEGG, FALMOUTH SCIENTIFIC INC.: Hi, Brooke. How you doing? Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Thank you for coming on.

Let's just begin with these sonar buoys. How do they work?

HEGG: Well, the sonar buoys, the sonobuoys have been used in -- for submarine reconnaissance for quite a number of years.

And what they do, the main idea behind them is, you drop them down behind an aircraft. And they have a long, say, 1,000-foot cable with a hydrophone on the end of it. And the idea behind that is near the surface of the water, you have all of these thermal layers. And those thermal layers are going to really wreak havoc with your acoustic signals.

They are going to bend the sound much like a prism will bend light. So, you want to get through all of those temperature layers and get down below them, so that you get clear, direct signals from the acoustic source, whatever you're trying to listen to.

BALDWIN: That's the thing about the water. I found myself reading a lot lately about sound, and the sound waves through air travel more or less in a straight line, but as you pointed out you used the word bend, right, within the water because of temperature and maybe because of salinity of the water, other factors, other variables.

That's what makes, you know, tracking these pings particularly tricky. With the sonobuoys than, say, a towed pinger locator, or is that all the same?

HEGG: Well, the towed pinger locator is going to be much deeper and much closer to the seabed, but one potential advantage of the sonar buoys is maybe you have two or three of them, and if they all somehow manage to detect the same ping, it's possible to get some level of triangulation, maybe, using these -- the sonar buoys.

And they're passive -- it's not like having another ship operating in the area. They can do it, and they can do it very quietly, so as not to disturb the work that is going on with the towed pinger locator.

BALDWIN: Fred, this is maybe a silly question. And maybe there are certainly a finite number of sonar buoys in the world, but why not just throw the resources at this now narrowed search area?

HEGG: I just don't know how many they have available, but they are pretty readily available.

And if they decide to choose where to use them, they want to use them in an area where the ship's not likely to be operating, because they want the environment where they throw the buoys to be as quiet as possible.

BALDWIN: To be quiet.

HEGG: So they don't want to overlap their work efforts. They want to use them together, so coordinate the efforts.

BALDWIN: Makes sense. Fred Hegg, thank you so much live in Boston for me.

And stay with me. We have much more on this missing plane. Coming up this hour, sources telling CNN the plane went down to approximately 5,000 feet when it disappeared from military radar. We will take you back inside that flight simulator and show you exactly how a pilot, if a pilot could pull that off.

The other big story we are watching for you today, we are hearing from a victim and hero impacted by that stabbing rampage at a Pennsylvania school. The school resource officer credited with helping subdue the suspect talks publicly for the very first time and one of the teenagers recovering in the hospital holds a pretty emotional news conference.

Do not miss these stories next on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The shy kid in the corner from a family like "The Brady Bunch," those are direct quotes, descriptions today, the 16-year-old accused of a stabbing spree that injured nearly two dozen people at a high school before classes even started yesterday morning in Murrysville, Pennsylvania.

Alex Hribal, who you just saw put in that control car here, is being treated legally as an adult in the state of Pennsylvania. And I want you to take a look now at the list of charges he faces here, four counts of attempted homicide, 21 counts of aggravated assault, and a single count of possessing a weapon at school.

The only adult injured in this attack is this man. This is school security guard William "Buzz" Yakshe, and you can just hear the worry in his voice as he talked to CNN today about the other victims, the one he calls his kids.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM "BUZZ" YAKSHE, SECURITY GUARD: You know what it's like to have 20 kids in the hospital? I'm concerned. They're my kids. And I just hope that you can understand that. These kids are like my own kids. I have been with them for 10 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is outside Franklin Regional High School for us in Murrysville, Pennsylvania.

And, Elizabeth, Buzz Yakshe's kids, these teenagers, these high schoolers did some pretty, pretty incredible things under horrendous conditions yesterday morning. We will get to that here.

But first can you give us just an update on how these victims are doing today?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, originally there were about 24 patients sent to the hospital. Now 10 remain, four of whom are in critical condition.

And they may not have an easy road ahead of them. Some of them are on ventilators and will need more surgery. But in the midst of all this sadness, Brooke, as you said, there are some really incredible stories about teenagers with no training retaining composure and doing incredible things.

So, let's talk about Nate Scimio. Nate Scimio had the wherewithal to pull the fire alarm when this happened to warn people to get out of the school. And he also had the wherewithal after he was stabbed to take a selfie in the hospital gown.

So, I guess that's what teenagers do, so pretty amazing, and also Brett Hurt. Now, Brett was in school with his friend Gracey Evans and he pushed her out of the way of the assailant, and then she took care of him.

Let's take a listen to what Brett had to say at a press conference today.

BALDWIN: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT HURT, ATTACK VICTIM: What was going through my mind? Will I survive, or will I die?

QUESTION: It sounds like your friend saved your life.

HURT: Yes. Gracey saved my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COHEN: Now Gracey wrote on her Facebook page, "Brett, you saved me. You took a knife for me to protect me. I'm forever grateful of that. I knew I could not leave your side. We will both get through this together. We are both hurt in different ways, but we will survive."

And, Brooke, she then added: "You saved my life, so I saved yours" -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Oh, they're incredible stories, but I hate that we even have to talk about heroes in situations like this at a high school.

But we have Brett's mother. She was asked today about Alex Hribal, the student who had those two knives, suspected of stabbing him. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANDA HURT, MOTHER OF VICTIM: I don't want to see any child that is honestly able to do something like that. I feel that it is not only his peers, his family, but it is the school who needs to look and say, what have we done to alienate this child for him to do such a gruesome thing?

And I hope that his family can find peace, and I hope this child can find peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I mean, how about that Elizabeth Cohen, hearing those words from that mother? What more do we know about this 16-year-old, Alex Hribal?

COHEN: You know what, Brooke, there is so much that we don't know.

We know that his lawyer says that he had friends. He says that he was not a loner. But when I talked to some students here, they say he was a quiet kid and he really didn't have so many friends. They didn't say he was bullied. They didn't say he was alienated.

But I think what Brett's mother has to say really speaks to a question that's on a lot of people's minds, which is, is it possible for schools to identify kids who might sort of be on the periphery of social life at that school? Is it possible for them to identify what kids might have situations where things will go wrong?

BALDWIN: Elizabeth Cohen, our heart is with that community. Thank you so much in Murrysville, Pennsylvania.

Coming up next, we are learning so much more here, new details about that missing plane today. And one of the biggest clues, a source telling CNN the plane went down to about 5,000 feet when it disappeared from military radar. So, next, we will take you inside the flight simulator to show you exactly how that can be done and tell you why a pilot would want to do that in the first place next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)