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Australian PM "Confident" in Signals; Underwater Drone to Scan for Debris; Searching on the Ocean Floor; Deadly Crash in California; Colbert to Replace Letterman on CBS; Four Days Since Pings Were Detected; 14 Ships, 10 Aircraft Involved in the Search

Aired April 12, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much. A lot going on today. Welcome to the 11:00 Eastern hour of the NEWSROOM which begins right now.

Thirty-six days now after Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 vanished, strong words expressing confidence that one of the black boxes has been detected. Listen to what Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said about four pings heard in the Indian Ocean over the past week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: They've been numerous, numerous transmissions recorded, which gives us the high degree of confidence that this is the black box from the missing flight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: But those signals are fading fast, and the batteries powering the pingers could be dead very soon, if they haven't already died. Here's what we know right now -- the pings that have given officials so much confidence were heard last Saturday and on Tuesday. But nothing has been heard since. 14 ships and 10 planes were involved in today's search more than a thousand miles off the coast of Australia. Crews right now are focusing on a search area that's about 16,000 square miles. That's about the size of Massachusetts and Connecticut combined.

The Australian Prime Minister said the next step in the search will be dropping in submersibles that can go very deep into the ocean.

Matthew Chance joins me live now from Perth, Australia. So Matthew, when are they going to start using those deep water search tools?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fredricka. They've not given an exact timeframe for when they're going to start doing that. But they've said that for the moment they're going to stick to this phase of the search which is the phase using the towed pinger locator to try and find any underwater signals that have been emanating from the emergency beacons on board those -- attached to those black box flight recorders.

The last time, though, that they had any contact with anything, they assumed to be a part of those black box flight recorders, was Tuesday. So four days have passed since then. But they've still not given up. They're still continuing to work that area of 16,000 square miles, but you still remember, a vast area of ocean even though it's much smaller than the area they were working a week before, even a day before.

So they're making some progress in that sense by excluding some of that search area on a daily basis. But the key point is this, until they're convinced they're not going to get any further electronic signals, they're going to continue doing this -- this kind of search. Only then will they launch other equipment like those remote- controlled -- or those autonomous submersibles that will continue to look for the black box recorders, but at a much slower pace -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And then Matthew what's the basis in which they shrink the area, the search area?

CHANCE: Well, it's not -- it's not based on -- on any new data they're getting. I think it's this, that they've worked out approximately where they believe the most likely area is that this Malaysian Airliner went down, and then bit by bit, day by day, using ships on the surface and using planes overhead, they're managing to exclude certain parts, certain tracks of that search area and inevitably that makes the search area smaller.

I don't think what they're doing is getting new data and saying look well on the basis of the new data, we think it's over here. That was a phase that is now passed. They're now just working through what they've got.

WHITFIELD: All right, Matthew Chance in Perth, thank you so much.

So as the search narrows and Australians get more confident, Malaysian officials seem to be getting less confident.

Let's bring in our panel this hour, CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo, is a former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation. She's now an aviation attorney who represents families suing airlines and crashes -- in crashes and disasters. And Alan Diehl is former Air Force accident investigator and the author of a book about air crash investigations. And David Soucie is a CNN safety analyst and also the author of "Why Planes Crash."

So ten days after they said they cleared passengers on Flight 370, Malaysian officials now say they can't clear anyone. Is there a problem with the various Malaysian agencies, or is this because it's simply unchartered territory, Mary, to have all these different mixed messages?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I think it's probably inexperience, but also just inexperience of dealing with transparency issues. I mean, Malaysia is not used to having to answer to all sorts of public questions, answer to families of victims and so they make pronouncements and it seems like they're genuinely surprised when they're challenged on the pronouncements that they make. And they're -- when they're challenged, well, what's your evidence of that? And so on this thing about first clearing the passengers and then saying oh, no, wait, we changed our mind, everybody is a suspect, I think they were just responding when they changed their mind to the public outcry of how could you possibly clear 237 potential suspects in a week which just isn't possible. So I think that was also public consumption including statements now.

WHITFIELD: So Alan, in your view, has this set back investigations in any way when at first all the passengers were cleared and now, you know, it's open season on anyone who may have been on board that flight?

ALAN DIEHL, FORMER AIR FORCE ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR: Well, certainly in some ways it does. It creates a lot of anxiety for the families. But I'm not sure. I just hope they're doing what they say they're doing and that is they've gone to Interpol and they've looked at all the records there and they looked for pilots' license, somebody has said that there's one flight engineer who was dead-heading on this. Obviously all of these people, including the people who had access to the aircraft, need to be checked out.

WHITFIELD: And David, how much of a difference does it make that you have different bits of information coming from Malaysian authorities on the path of the plane, on whether all those who knew the pilot say he's a good guy, there is no reason to be suspicious. I mean, there are so many different messages coming from so many different directions. This has to be very confusing, if not for family members, then really for the flying public.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: It really is for both. But there's something more indicative here going on and that tells me that there's some miscommunication going on within the investigation itself. So if they can't communicate publicly in a consistent manner, it makes me question whether or not they can communicate within -- amongst themselves as well.

Another thing I'm concerned about is the fact that they have not issued the preliminary report, which is a requirement of the International Civil Aviation Authority. They have 30 days to do that past the date of occurrence. We're far beyond 30 days. We haven't heard a word. So it's not just a matter of, gee, they don't think they have to release this information. It's required by a civil law, by an agreement that's made between all these countries and they signed up for that and they said, yes, we're going to -- we're going to do this and they have not done that. We don't have any information that is required to be released.

WHITFIELD: So Mary, what does that tell you?

SCHIAVO: Well unfortunately, the International Civil Aviation Organization is more aspirational than regulatory and punitive. And so when you don't comply with ICAO requirements, unfortunately ICAO doesn't have a lot of teeth, it doesn't have a lot of bite. And other countries that are signatories to the ICAO conventions are not likely to take punitive actions against Malaysia. So they will get away. I mean, there's not -- there's really not any police on the beat to enforce the production of these reports, so they're probably going to -- you know, it's not going to be an immediate effect from that, other than to cast additional doubt on the fact that they can carry out an international ICAO standard investigation and -- and they should -- they should be relying more and more on the Australians, is what should happen.

WHITFIELD: And then, Alan, while there's this lack of confidence in the Malaysian authorities, or at least the information that's being communicated between these agencies, do you have confidence in the confidence being expressed by the Australian Prime Minister?

DIEHL: Well, obviously, he's a politician, but I'm sure he's being briefed by smart people in Australia. I've gone down three times to work -- training in the air safety investigators. They are very competent. They are much like the NTSB, only on a smaller scale. And I -- I feel sure that they must be advising their Prime Minister on what he should say and can say.

So yes, I have a lot more confidence like everybody seems to do in the Australians than I do in the Malaysians.

WHITFIELD: All right. Alan Diehl, Mary Schiavo and David Soucie, thanks so much we'll check back with you a little while on this hour. I appreciate it.

All right so the next step in this search will go miles deep under water. How will they look? And particularly, without a shred of sunlight or evidence on top of the water?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Four pings heard in the Indian Ocean have narrowed the search area for Flight 370. It's not nearly as wide as it was before. But it is still just as deep. Crews will need a new set of tools to search nearly three miles now down to the ocean floor.

Rosa Flores has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Four times investigators have heard pings that are consistent with the signals coming from the missing jet's data recorders.

ANGUS HOUSTON, AIR CHIEF MARSHAL: I believe we are searching in the right area, but we need to visually identify aircraft wreckage.

FLORES: That's where this probe comes in. It was sent to the Indian Ocean to scour the ocean floor.

(on camera): It's called an AUV, an Autonomous Underwater Vehicle and it uses side-scan sonar. You can see it right here to create that picture. It's also equipped with a GPS system. You can see it right over here and, of course, that lets the crew know where this probe is at any point in time.

It has been used before to identify and help recover plane wreckage. It would be able to narrow the debris field. For demonstrations purposes, it's tethered. That would not be the case, of course, in the Indian Ocean. Once this launches onto the water, you're going to see, it kind of floats, it's buoyant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our particular AUV has about a 20-hour endurance. To get down to a depth of 4,500 meters, it takes about two hours.

FLORES (voice over): This is an AUV made by Bluefin Robotics, as it searches under water. It's the same AUV that is in the Indian Ocean ready to dive more than 14,000 feet in search of the missing 777. This animation shows how it moves along the ocean floor, as if it were mowing a lawn, creating a map of potential plane debris. The AUV is also equipped with a still camera, essential to the search.

PAUL NELSON, PHOENIX INTERNATIONAL: So once we get a debris field, we'll have the AUV run a pattern over the debris field with photographs and that will pretty much identify the airplane for sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you getting a signal on the ROV beacons as well?

FLORES: If they find Flight 370 this remotely operated vehicle, an ROV, can retrieve the black boxes from the ocean.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You put your two cameras here on your pilot monitor and your co-pilot monitor.

FLORES: The ROV can operate in the deep sea where humans can't and may be the only chance of recovering the flight data recorders and any evidence of what happened to MH370.

Rosa Flores, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Ok, again, the Australian prime minister saying today search teams are trying to pick up the signal again with the towed pinger locator, the TPL. And once they have exhausted that option, they'll start using those underwater drones.

To help explain, I'm joined by oceanographer Sylvia Earle, she's an explorer in residence at the National Geographic Society, who has led more than 100 expeditions and logged 7,000 hours underwater. Good to see you, Sylvia.

SYLVIA EARLE, OCEANOGRAPHER: Great to be on board.

WHITFIELD: All right. So let's talk about that next step, if, indeed, they find the wreckage -- trying to locate it. That's where this Bluefin comes in. Explain to us what that is.

EARLE: Well, that is a piece of equipment that does assist in locating where the wreckage may be. That's the critical first step. Once that is done, then other equipment can be brought in and remotely operated systems --

WHITFIELD: Explain to me first how that Bluefin works. How does it help locate?

EARLE: Using sonar to be able to see with sound and pick up images in a wide area so that you can zero in on a specific site.

WHITFIELD: Now, I understand it moves very slow. I heard a navy commander explain it like the parallel is it's like taking a stroll, a walk on the sidewalk, but every now and then you stop and take pictures. That's the rate of speed we're talking about for the Bluefin. So it will take a long time. It's not just a matter of hours, but maybe even days?

EARLE: Oh, much more than that perhaps.

WHITFIELD: Really?

EARLE: It's 16,000 square miles of ocean. It's a lot of territory to cover. It took a long time to actually recover the Air France debris, even though they knew much more precisely where the plane went down.

WHITFIELD: So in this case, it could take weeks, if not months, for the use of this Bluefin, which takes a long time? And it's not just relying on the pinging device then, right? When you say it relies on, you know, a sonar-kind of surveillance. Explain what it's picking up, how it works, how this is an asset.

EARLE: Well, to be able to see with sound, sonar enables, without a camera, an overall much wider area to actually understand either the configuration of the sea floor below or side-scan sonar, to be able to see what images there may be laterally. And some sonars now are really very good in terms of getting a definitive image, almost a picture of what's there. But it's imaged with sound instead of with a camera. And once they've located the debris field, then they are able to come in with equipment, able to recover pieces.

WHITFIELD: And then optimistically speaking, say that apparatus actually picks up, locates the wreckage, and then it's a matter of trying to retrieve it. Let's talk about the potential recovery once something is located -- something interesting enough to want to retrieve.

We keep hearing about ROVs. We saw it in the previous piece -- remotely operated vehicles that will be sent to actually pick up the wreckage. It actually has a claw on it.

EARLE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: To pick up pieces -- yes. Help us understand how that works. It seems like a simple concept, you know, a claw picks up something and then brings it. But it can't be that simple when you're talking about three miles, potentially, deep. EARLER: Well, power has to be conveyed down a cable to be able to operate and provide power to the system below. And then, so it's a tethered system. That is, it has a cable going all the way from the ship on the surface, conveying all the way down to three miles below. There are not many pieces of equipment in the world able to do this.

WHITFIELD: Yes, and then talk about the accuracy. I mean, clearly, things move, you know, as something is descending in water. You have currents, you've got waves, you've got, like you said, you have sound that will make items move. So as this cable is descended and this claw is descended, is it as simple -- I shouldn't say simple -- but we're talking about somebody with a remote control -- remote control of a car, say, for example, they're trying to manipulate this claw, this cable?

EARLE: Well, it's pretty stable once you get to the bottom, because it has a deployment system that takes up the slack from all the way back to the surface. And then there's a short cable that runs from the tethered management system, it's called, that enables it to have very steady operations. So once they find the debris, once they find the wreckage, it's more realistic to think you could actually recover the black box.

First, you have to find it. And this system is one of several that might be available in the world.

WHITFIELD: Yes, and we are getting ahead of ourselves, because, yes, you have to find it first. So now, that's an ROV that's unmanned.

Say there's a call in for the type of equipment where it would be manned, a submersible with a person inside. Help me understand what that is, what that option is, and at what point would that be an asset used?

EARLE: Well, having the human presence there can make a big difference. To take the human mind as well as remotely operating can give you a real edge in terms of understanding what's there. There are only a handful of countries, though, that have manned submarines capable of going as much as three miles deep.

The United States has the Alvin. It's just on the edge of being able to go as deep as where we imagine this wreckage to be. France has a system called Nautile. Russia has several 6,000-meter subs, especially the Mir 1, Mir 2. Japan has the Xinghai 6,500 and China has a 7,000-meter sub. Any of these could be used once they find the actual site.

WHITFIELD: All right.

EARLE: You know, it shows how little -- how ill-prepared we are to operate in the deep sea. How many airplanes can go 7,000 meters high in the sky? I mean that's where passenger airplanes go. We've invested in aviation and aerospace, and we've been neglecting the ocean.

WHITFIELD: Well, still unclear exactly what assets, what countries will commit these kinds of assets that are available. But again, they've got to find that wreckage.

Sylvia Earle, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

EARLE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Straight ahead -- more on the search for Flight 370. But next, new details in the bus crash that killed high school students and chaperones -- what witnesses say they saw before that terrifying collision.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. We'll get back to the mystery of the Malaysia Flight. But first, there's other news. Here's Nick Valencia -- hi Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good to see you again. Lots of news and headlines to catch you up on. Let's start in California where there are new developments in that deadly bus crash in northern California. CNN affiliate KOVR spoke with witnesses who said the FedEx truck was on fire before it rammed into the bus on Thursday. The bus was carrying prospective students on the way to Humboldt State University to visit the campus. Ten people were killed, five of them high school students and more than 30 were injured.

Our affiliate KXTV has an emotional reunion between a surviving student and his parents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

GABRIEL ROJAS, REPORTER: Prayers were answered for the Hoyt family as they arrive from San Diego at Glen Medical Center.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to see you.

ROJAS: On his way to freshman orientation at Humboldt State University, Harley Hoyt expected to see the first glimpse of his future, but instead --

HARLEY HOYT, BUS PASSENTER: Chaos is what I saw.

ROJAS: Sitting in the back of the bus, Harley didn't see the FedEx truck coming. But he heard the screams of the others up front.

HOYT: Once we hit the impact, the front of the bus, like, was on fire. And, like, smoke started coming through the whole -- the whole bus.

ROJAS: Harley was able to break open an emergency window exit just in time.

HOYT: I looked out the window and the FedEx bus is already on fire. So I was like, ok, we're going to blow up any second.

ROJAS: Getting out of the bus was just the beginning.

HOYT: We all crossed Interstate 5 and got on the southbound side. After that, everyone was, like, laying on the grass, just -- people were out of it, people were crying, people were, like, pulling their hair, people were screaming.

ROJAS: Harley suffered only minor injuries, something his parents had to see to believe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely had an angel with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a special gift that was given to us.

HOYT: Lucky is an understatement. Blessed is an understatement. I don't have word to describe how I feel. Like I'm so thankful that I'm here; grateful that I'm alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Grateful indeed. That's Gabriel Rojas from our affiliate KXTV.

Well, it appears that a massive Internet bug called Heartbleed is worse than initially thought. It's not just Web sites either. Phone calls, voicemails, iPhone sessions, virtually any gadget used to connect to the Internet may have been compromised.

(inaudible) say the bug has been around for more than two years. For now, you're advised to change your passwords.

Moving on to sports, you're in August, the masters taking shape without two notable names. No Tiger, no Phil Mickelson. But look at Bubba Watson. He's got a three-shot lead at Augusta Nationals. Woods is out, of course, recovering from back surgery. And Mickelson just didn't make the cut. Bubba, the 2012 champ and popular PGA star is ahead of defending champ Adam Scott and 20-year-old Jordan Spieth.

Special stop today for the Duchess of Cambridge during a royal tour in New Zealand -- visiting a children's hospice, Catherine had a tea party with a six-year-old girl -- bet she'll remember that forever -- whose mother has terminal cancer. Later she joined husband Prince William at the Cambridge Town Hall where they laid roses at a war memorial. Baby George not with the royal couple on this leg of the tour but I'm sure if he was, there'd be a lot more eyes on the royal couple.

WHITFIELD: I know, Baby George is the hit.

VALENCIA: Yes. He's the hit. He's who everyone wants to see but what a sweet little exchange there, that tea party with the six-year- old.

WHITFIELD: I know. I love that.

VALENCIA: Yes.

WHITFIELD: She will, and the family will indeed remember that forever.

VALENCIA: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: Hey, there's another story, Nick, that has a whole lot of folks talking. I know it caught your attention too, this week.

David Letterman's retirement and his replacement, Stephen Colbert. Brian Stelter, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES" tells us what's next for CBS and late night TV.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN HOST: Hey, Fred. It's been quite a few days for fans of late night TV, because we are seeing all of these changes happen in a row. First David Letterman announces he's retiring and then a week later Stephen Colbert says he's going to be the one taking over.

He joked about it in character on his "Colbert Report" on Thursday night and said those are very big shoes to fill. Of course, he didn't step out of character to acknowledge that he's the one that's going to be filling them. So we will see how Colbert starts to transition in the next few months, or maybe in the next year or so, into his own self and not the conservative blow-hard character that he pretends to be on Comedy Central.

But now, there are other jobs that will have to be filled as a result. Comedy Central's got to figure out what they're going to do at 11:30. "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" will still be there at 11:00 but they now have that time slot to fill. And so I think there's going to be a race by any number of comedians to raise their hand for Comedy Central.

And I do wonder what CBS is going to do at 12:30, because right now, Craig Ferguson is the guy that follows David Letterman. But it seems like he's been pretty visibly snubbed by CBS since they've gone out and hired Stephen Colbert instead.

The head of CBS, Les Moonves said the other day that 12:30 is an open question. He said that's up in the air, which does suggest that Craig Ferguson could be leaving in the next year and potentially that will be another time slot for CBS to fill. Now that it's figured out one transition here from Letterman to Colbert. They may now have another one on their hands. Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: It sounds like a big problem or a challenge, I should say. All right, thanks so much, Brian.

All right, technology used years ago to listen for submarines is now being used in the search for the missing plane. How sonobuoys work when we return.

And later today, join us for Dr. Sanjay Gupta special. He's reporting live from West Africa at 4:30 Eastern Time with the latest on a deadly outbreak of the Ebola virus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In the air and below the deposition, the flight for missing Flight 370 pushes into another day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have now been numerous transmissions from the black box or from what we are confident is the black box.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: But even with that optimism, time is running out to retrieve the black boxes before the signals fade and the loved ones of those on board want answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The real challenges in looking at this is that the fox is very much in charge of the henhouse, and it makes us question that every step taken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: We'll have the latest information as it becomes available, as our live coverage of the mystery of Flight 370 continues right now.

Today, crews desperately tried to detect more pings that officials believe are coming from the plane's black boxes. Search teams are focusing on an area that's about 16,000 square miles now. That's about the size of Massachusetts and Connecticut combined, 14 ships and 10 planes are involved, and they're working more than 1,000 miles off the coast of Australia.

And the Australian prime minister said, and you heard him, even with the confidence, the search is likely to continue for a while. Search teams are stretching the bounds of technology for this mission. This week, sonobuoys dropped from an airplane were used to hunt for the pinger. Sonobuoys were designed for maritime combat, not search-and- recovery. They are dropped out of a plane and plummet into the sea with a parachute.

Our Chad Myers takes a look at how these sonobuoys work.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Fred, honestly, just great pictures, great video of these sonobuoys being thrown out of the back of these airplanes, P-3 Orions, this one was an Australian P-3, landing in the water, opening up the float-on-top, ballooning out, and this thing sending its listening device, microphone, down a thousand feet. It's a wire, essentially an antenna.

The microphone right here listens for anything -- whales, volcanos, submarines -- and that sends the signal up to the wire, from the wire to the airplane, as we move this along, there goes the signal, one after another after another. So all it does is sits there and listens. When it hears something, it sends the signal up.

So fairly low tech, but very, very effective when it comes to dropping these every few miles. The plane flying around and listening for pings. You can do -- cover a lot more territory throwing them from an airplane than dragging that thing back and forth at 2 miles per hour -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Wow, that's incredible. Thank you so much for that explanation, Chad.

So how much longer will they wait before pulling those sonobuoys out of the water and then deploying the Bluefin sonar device? Let me bring back our panel. Mary Schiavo, Alan Diehl and David Soucie, welcome back to all of you.

So as we just saw, there have been -- there's been the deploying of those sonobuoys to listen for the pings. The Australian prime minister saying he's confident the four pings that they have already heard are from the plane's black boxes. So it has helped to narrow the search area immensely.

But we haven't heard anything in days now, what, about five days since the last ping? So let's talk about what should we move on? Should we give these sonobuoys a little more time, Alan, or is it time to put these Bluefins in?

ALAN DIEHL, FORMER AIR FORCE ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR: I think it's getting pretty close. I got a call from the guy that actually tests the sonobuoys, and his estimate was maybe -- they're guaranteed for 30 days. They test them for about 34 days at full power, and then he said they had about five days after that. So we're right on the cusp where we need to go from passive listening to active pinging with the Bluefin.

WHITFIELD: So, Mary, how discouraged are you that it has been about five days -- four days, depending on -- we're talking about the time difference -- since the last ping was heard? Is that an indicator that the batteries are just simply dead? Does it make you less confident that, indeed, the pings are coming from the black boxes? What?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: No, I think the batteries are probably dead. You know, there's been many pushes under way to get those batteries to be 90-day batteries or more. You know, frankly, the only thing that's required is a 30-day battery, and they got 34 days out of them, that's pretty good. They got just about what they paid for.

So I'm actually very surprised that the batteries did last as long as they did, and that they were able to get pings. There have been many crashes where they haven't been able to find pings and they've had to go down and search, including the record-depth black box recovery, which was 16,000 feet in the Indian Ocean.

They didn't get pings. They had to send the submersibles down without them. They did find one of them. So we're a lot better off here at this juncture than many at the beginning thought that we would be.

WHITFIELD: And so, David, you know, are you encouraged by this that there have at least been these pings? You convinced, as well, that they are that of the black boxes? If so, at what point, at what stage do you think it's time to move on to a different kind of apparatus like the Bluefin?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: I'm convinced that they are from the pinging device and the thing that bothers me a little bit right now is, remember, that the pinger locator was on the beach basically for a week before they decided to take it on the ship and have it in the general vicinity. Now we have these -- the Bluefins out there and they're ready to do their part. What we haven't seen yet is do we have the submersible recovery vehicles there that are ready to do this?

What I see -- I haven't heard any word of the fact that they're out there. I've talked to some sources I know of that have told me they're not out there yet. So that's what I'm curious about. Once they get the Bluefin out there, if they do identify something, will we wait another week for that to go out there and do it?

Again, I can see that there's no terrible urgency at this point for the actual recovery effort. However, these families are still waiting and just seeing things is not going to do it. They're going to have actually have a piece of that aircraft in hand and say this is what it was, and this is what happened.

WHITFIELD: So you're worried about the timeframe here, whether any of those other assets for the next phase had been moved into the vicinity, but again you talk about the urgency, the lack of urgency that there is to really get them in place. Yet at the same time, is it not still very strange to you that there is just no debris anywhere in the vicinity?

SOUCIE: Yes, it is strange to me. I've convinced myself that it must have gone down in at least a few large pieces, and that would explain a little bit about why there's no debris on the surface where they're looking now. The other explanation for that might be that they're just -- the model they used for tracking the debris is in correct, and on Flight 447 that's exactly what happened. The model was incorrect. They spent several weeks looking for debris in the wrong area, so they didn't see anything there. In this case, yes, it's strange to me that we haven't seen something.

WHITFIELD: And, Mary, if these pings are not that of the black boxes, what else would they be?

SCHIAVO: Well, there's lots of speculation and stories and, you know, basically, you know, citizen reports or fisher people reports that these pingers are used on fishing equipment, oceanographic equipment, you know, various mapping and other applications, and all sorts of equipment that goes into the ocean. However, I'm a little skeptical about that, because if anybody had put in an oceanographic or fishing equipment in the area where they're searching for pingers and, a, didn't come forward and fess up, and say I put some fingers on fishing nets or oceanographic equipment, so sorry, can I get my stuff out while you look?

And then, two, I think that certainly the Australian officials and the Chinese and everyone else out there looking would have noticed if there we were, you know, if National Geographic or a fishing fleet was out there in their way. So I'm a little skeptical of those reports, but it's possible it's on something else.

WHITFIELD: All right, Mary Schiavo, Alan Diehl, David Soucie, thanks so much. We'll check back with you throughout the afternoon. All right, so all of that high-tech equipment being used to search for the flight recorders may not show the search teams exactly where they are. Tom Foreman shows us how water can dramatically affect sound.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka. We've talked a lot about the devices that have been deployed to locate the source of these pings out there. The towed ping locator is one of the things we've looked at a lot. We've talked about sonobuoys being dropped out here. But everything that tries to listen in the ocean must deal with the unique acoustic characteristics of deep water and they present some real challenges.

Among them, something called the sound fixing and ranging layer. This is about a half mile down. It's a naturally occurring portion of the water where sound travels less quickly than it does below or above. A lot of different reasons. The salinity level, water temperature, and this is the result. Sometimes because of this layer, a sound that may come up out of here can hit that slower area and be bent at a very substantial angle, so when it emerges, it's quite different from where you would expect it to be.

In other cases, sound may come up out of here, and when it hits this layer, it can start ping-ponging between the top and bottom parts of it, and can actually go on, it's believed by researches, many miles before it resurges -- resurfaces. So in effect, that could explain why a pinger that should only be heard for about 3 miles, in the best of circumstances, may be heard much further away, and that's why some of these pings might be so widespread as they are right now -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks so much. Tom Foreman, appreciate that.

All right, so it's been nearly four days since searchers heard that fourth ping, but officials say they remain optimistic. We'll have a live report from Malaysia straight ahead.

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WHITFIELD: No new audio signals have been heard since the four confirmed pings detected earlier this week. But Australia's prime minister says he's confident that the sounds are from the flight's black boxes. CNN's Sumnima Udas joins me now from Kuala Lumpur. So Sunima, first, what are Malaysian authorities saying today?

SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, the Malaysian authorities are saying those signals that the Australian search teams have been detecting over the past few days, those are actually promising leads. They say particularly because the frequency of those signals are very similar to that of a black box. But still, they say all of this still needs to be verified and they're cautiously optimistic. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HISHAMMUDDIN HUSSEIN, MALAYSIAN ACTIN TRANSPORTATION MINISTER: -- signals that needs to be verified. I totally agree with Angus Houston that any lead -- and this might be one of the more cautiously optimistic leads that we have, because the signals are similar to a black box.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UDAS: You can understand the hesitation there because there's just been so many false leads in the past few weeks. So the Malaysian authorities are saying they want to be absolutely sure before they can confirm anything -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Sumnina, what are the families saying?

UDAS: Well, the families right now are as skeptical as the authorities are, at least the ones we've been talking to. We just spoke to the mother of one of the -- of the Iranian passengers who was traveling with a fake passport. And she said that she feels really let down by the investigation, as if Malaysian authorities in particular have completely forgotten about the investigation.

She says she hopes the Americans are still on top of the investigation, because she feels so let down. And she says she really needs to see finally the evidence before she can believe that her son is actually no longer alive. And that is the overarching sentiment that we've been hearing all along, that these families need closure, and for that, they need to see some sort of evidence, some sort of debris -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: I know it's painstaking. All right, thanks so much, Sumnima Udas. Appreciate that in Kuala Lumpur.

All right, straight ahead, more on the search for Flight 370. But first, a new season of Anthony Bourdain's "PARTS UNKNOWN." I talked to him about the cuisine and culture in a very contentious part of the world.

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ANTHONY BOURDAIN, HOST, CNN'S "PARTS UNKNOWN": -- Dhaba meaning side of the road food stall, and there are countless to choose from in this town. But this one is legendary. I like it. To eat around this part of the world, get used to eating a lot of vegetarian. Chick peas. India is one of the few places on earth where even for me that's not a burden. I'll take that.

WHITFIELD: We know you missed it and the good news is you won't have to wait much longer. The show is back. Joining us now for a preview of what we're going to see this season of "PARTS UNKNOWN" Anthony Bourdain. All right, Anthony, good to see you. Your first stop this season, Punjab, India. We know the food is a hit. We are talking about amazing spices and at the same time it's in a region that can be a little spicy, too, along the Pakistan border. So what was this journey like?

BOURDAIN: Well, the food was indeed spectacular. The colors are extraordinary. It's a very, very beautiful part of a beautiful country aAnd we looked at the, you know, in the course of just eating and looking into the far away past, the present kept intruding. It's a very contentious part of the world. The relations between -- along that border have really formed a lot of the problems in the entire region. We, all of us, see it, feel it, hear it, live with it every day to a great extent and we looked at that a little bit right where it matters.

WHITFIELD: So there was a free community vegetarian restaurant there as well. Describe that experience.

BOURDAIN: Well, it's the golden temple. It's the holiest spot in the Sikh religion. At this temple every day for I think about a century, quite some time, many, many decades, volunteers have been cooking tens of thousands of free meals for any and all of any faith and of any income level to come and eat and enjoy a simple meal.

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WHITFIELD: All right, just a taste. Can't wait. Don't miss the season premiere of Anthony Bourdain's "PARTS UNKNOWN." It's tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern Time right here on CNN.

All right, it's a big Sunday double-header here on CNN. The premiere of "INSIDE MAN" with Morgan Spurlock as well. It airs right afterwards at 10:00 Eastern Time.

All right, at the top of the hour, new developments in the hunt for the missing Malaysian Airliner. Why is Australia's prime minister so confident that searchers are in the right area? We'll have a live report next.

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