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Search Area Expands for Missing Plane; Gunman Kills Three People Near Kansas City; Three People Dead in Kansas Shooting; Black Box Search

Aired April 13, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right. breaking news, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. We're tracking three huge stories right now.

In one hour, the U.N. Security Council is holding an urgent previously unscheduled meeting at Russia's request to discuss rising violence in Ukraine.

Ukraine's acting president says he won't stand for another Crimea in his fragile nation.

Plus this tragedy strikes on the eve of Passover. Gunfire erupted at two Jewish facilities near Kansas City. Three people are dead, the suspect, bearded man in his 70s.

Plus the hunt for Malaysia Flight 370 may be on the verge of a new chapter, search planes are back in the skies near Australia. You'll hear how the search may shift gears very soon.

Breaking news right now in the suburbs of Kansas City a man with a gun started shooting at a Jewish community center in Overland Park, Kansas. He killed two people there one of them a teenager. And according to police the man then drove to a Jewish retirement home where he killed one more person, an older woman. The police chief talked to reporters just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JOHN DOUGLASS, OVERLAND PARK, KANSAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have the suspect and this gentleman is in his 70s. He is a white male, he has a beard. The suspect in the back of the car made several statements, we are sifting through and vetting those for accuracy, number one; and number two, we're looking at them from their evidentiary value.

It's too early to tell you what he may or may not have said. But we're trying to determine what that was at this time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: CNN's Nick Valencia gathering the details for us on this breaking news. Nick more about the suspect in a second. But tell us about these two places where he opened fire today. NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes three and a half hours into this investigation, Don very little information as the police chief alluded to there. But we do know is that the first shooting scene was a Jewish community center there in Overland Park, Kansas, a town of about 173,000 people and we know that the shooting happened outside -- in the parking lot, where you mentioned two victims there, two fatalities outside.

We do know that inside, a dance competition was going on. A dance -- a dance competition performances, as well as perhaps a performance of a play "To Kill the Mockingbird" so a lot of children, a lot of younger folks inside that community center, a very, very scary situation for them.

Now the shooter moved on about a mile away to Village Shalom and that's a retirement center, an assisted living facility and earlier I spoke to somebody there. I called that facility and a woman answered said that everyone inside was ok and that they would be preparing a statement for the media in the coming hours.

But that's what we do know about those two facilities. Both affiliated in some way to the Jewish community and as you mentioned you know on the eve of Passover, just very scary situation for those involved there -- Don.

LEMON: Can we talk a bit more about the suspect? I mean they said he's a bearded man in his 70s. They don't think he knew the victims or he staked out the places where he opened fire, today right?

VALENCIA: That's right. They know very little about this man. In fact some of the reporters at this press conference asked if they were -- if he was known to police before this incident. They said they had -- they had no idea that he had planned to do this, there was no indication, that this was very surprising to everyone that's investigating.

We do know that he's in his 70s. And there is a picture of him released by our local affiliates in Kansas City. And just a few minutes ago I spoke to the PIO, the Press Information Officer of Overland Park and he said he could not corroborate what local officials -- local affiliates are saying was this image of this man but he's in his 70s, he had a beard, he's not from Kansas. But we don't know anything else about the suspect -- Don.

LEMON: And Nick let's talk about the timing here, you know.

VALENCIA: Yes.

LEMON: The religion of the victims, the start of Passover tomorrow. These reported statements made by the suspect, you know, saying apparently "Heil Hitler" or asking people if they were -- if they were Jewish before he shot them. What's the hate crime angle here, if any?

VALENCIA: Well it's a hate crime investigation. And the police made that very clear that they haven't ruled anything out. But that's the line that they're going down. Now very interestingly, a KCTV there the Kansas affiliate of CNN and a reporter Bonyen Lee (ph) said that during the suspect being taken into custody that she heard him say "Heil Hitler". Police chief was asked about that at the press conference, he says they're looking into the statements that the suspect made while in police custody but did not go so far as to say he said those comments specifically.

We did, I should mention, have a rabbi on earlier last hour that you interviewed who said that the suspect was shouting hate -- hate crime- type statements, that it sounded like a hate crime but we just don't know exactly the extent of why he did this, Don and what the motive was behind these shootings.

But a day before Passover a very chilling scene for everyone there in the Jewish community center, you know a very sad situation there in Overland Park.

LEMON: Yes and that gentleman just happened to be was -- he is -- he works with the police department, he is a chaplain for the police department.

VALENCIA: That's right.

LEMON: Who happen to be a rabbi but also they said yes, they are investigating it as a hate crime. They also said that we are also investigating it just as a criminal act. And we're also investigating it as terrorism. And as you said they said they are not ruling anything out.

VALENCIA: Anything yes.

LEMON: At this point all cards are on the table. Nick Valencia thank you we appreciate your reporting.

VALENCIA: You bet.

LEMON: You know in less than an hour, the U.N. Security Council will hold emergency meetings -- an emergency meeting on the crisis in Ukraine at Russia's request. The unscheduled meeting comes after a sudden spike in bloodshed in the fragile nation. Pro-Russian demonstrators now occupying government buildings in several cities in the east and crowds are protesting near occupied buildings. Ukraine's leader set a harsh deadline for pro-Russia separatist, "back down by Monday or else".

Our senior United Nations correspondent I should say is Mr. Richard Roth and he is there at the United Nations. Richard what are your sources telling you about this urgent meeting from the council about to happen?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Well we now know that the meeting will be a public session and likely speeches by Russia and Ukraine. And if it's like some of the other meetings, there will be responses to the previous remarks made by an ambassador, it could be a very long, interesting, Sunday night.

There have been several weeks have passed since we've had a session like this. But as you mentioned, as that ultimatum deadline to act against separatists supporting Russia move near Russia requested a meeting.

Now the Russia wanted it private behind closed doors. Other countries, I think likely the U.S., too, wanted it public. So we will definitely have this airing of grievances. U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power earlier on Sunday on "ABC this Week" said violence and the building takeovers and towns well though the handiwork of Russian authorities is all over it, according to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA POWER, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: It has all the tell-tale signs of what we saw in Crimea. It's professional. It's coordinated. There's nothing grassroots seeming about it. I think we've seen that the sanctions can bite and if actions like the kind that we've seen over the last few days continue you're going to see a ramping up of those sanctions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Russia says these people want to be with Russia and they are fighting for their own democracy to be connected with Moscow. Russia has hundreds of tanks, planes and other military armaments on the border it insists it's just doing military exercises Don.

We've heard warnings for days now from senior U.S. authorities and others concerned and there's concern here at U.N. about what might happen along the border and now we have this ultimatum regarding supporters of Russia, coming up in about five or six hours.

LEMON: So Richard, you know I spoke with the Congressman, Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff and he talked about stronger sanctions. But none of that's likely to come out of the emergency, if you want to call that, meeting tonight this unplanned meeting.

ROTH: Right. As we've seen with other crises, the U.N. could not agree on something like sanctions. In this case, Russia, a permanent member of the Security Council, has a veto. What you see is individual countries such as the U.S. putting their own sanctions on Russia or the European Union as a group. The U.S. says there is a lot of sanctions still left to go, but will any of them really bite? That is unclear.

LEMON: Richard Roth at the U.N. Thank you. I appreciate you.

Now to the case of Flight 370: the battery deadline is likely passed. The black box pings, completely silent now. Haven't heard from them in days -- haven't heard them in days. The families are living in limbo of course but no one is ready to throw in the towel.

Top Malaysian officials reaffirming today that we must find the black boxes if the mystery of the missing airliner is to be solved. Planes are taking to the sky again as dawn breaks over Perth. And the search shifts from listening to looking. My panel of experts are back with me now: CNN aviation analyst and pilot, Les Abend; CNN's safety analyst and author David Soucie; also Mission 31 Expedition leader and ocean explorer, Fabian Cousteau; CNN aviation analyst and pilot, Miles O'Brien and Alan Diehl a former NTSB and FAA accident investigator the author of "Air Safety Investigators: Using Science to Save Lives".

Ok Fabian, how do they calculate the search area? And what factors are they taking into account especially now they were learning that they are expanding the area?

FABIAN COUSTEAU, MISSION 31 EXPEDITION LEADER: Well they're expanding the area on the surface because of obvious factors such as weather, currents, and the fact that if there is a debris field on the surface, the things that are floating are probably dispersing and therefore, you have to expand that search area.

LEMON: All right. Alan Diehl, are we being too hard on Malaysia? What kind of job do you think they're doing in the investigation?

ALAN DIEHL, FORMER NTSB ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR: Well certainly they've made some very bad missteps early on and we don't have to regale everybody with what they've done wrong. They've done two things right that I see. First, they've got the INMARSAT satellite people involved. They are very bright people, they essentially located where the black boxes may be. And they turned the search over to the Australians.

So we could be hard on them. I wish they had done what President Mubarak did in 1989 and then that is, ask for an NTSB go team to take over the investigation. He lost a Boeing 767 in the Atlantic and it worked out very well with NTSB doing the investigation.

LEMON: It sounds good to many people, but Miles O'Brien, how likely is that to happen?

O'BRIEN: Well it's a little late for that I think. But I do agree with that. I think it's important that countries, frankly, recognize where their expertise lies in and does not. And it's clear the Malaysians do not have the depth of expertise to do these kinds of things. I mean really very few nations do. Very few nations have had the depth of experience and the NTSB is preeminent in all of this. And so it would be -- I've all -- I would say that if you're going to buy a Boeing 777 and fly it in your flag airliner, your flag carrier, you should be able to demonstrate you have the capability to conduct one of these investigations or you should sign a way in advance with a memorandum of understanding who you're going to go to in these circumstances so there's no decision when you're in the midst of this horrible tragedy.

LEMON: David, you know, failure is not an option here. But if -- if the black boxes are never recovered, I mean can this investigation ever be complete? And I think I'm getting ahead of myself. What's the likelihood now that those pingers are gone? That's the better question. DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well I think it's -- it's very likely that the batteries have died. But I do feel confident they're going to find those black boxes. That signal that they got was very distinctive, it's not confused with the fishing boat signal or any other signal like we've heard before.

LEMON: No but they heard it but you just can't -- it's not just like that where you can go find them.

SOUCIE: No but remember we're talking about just about 560 miles if you went from end to end.

LEMON: Right.

SOUCIE: But that's probably not what they'll do. Because they'll recognize those far pings as artifacts that are going through the trans-thermal layer. But -- so if you focus on that two-mile stretch it only gives a couple of options as to where those boxes are. If you draw a circle around one option, you've got two miles intersect, if you've got a circle around the other you've got that. So there's only a couple of places that they need to start the search and look from there out.

LEMON: You said something I thought was very interesting earlier today. You said you know just because they're hearing these pingers or what they believe are two different signals from far away, it doesn't mean that because I think it's what -- is it two miles, or three miles.

SOUCIE: Yes.

LEMON: But that's the minimum range?

SOUCIE: Correct that's what the FAA does is set the minimum standards. We don't set the maximum standards in the FAA.

LEMON: But how does that -- does that make it harder because if you're hearing them you're thinking oh they're within two or three miles.

SOUCIE: Right.

LEMON: No.

SOUCIE: No it makes it much harder. Now remember this 160 decibels which is about as loud as a gunshot, it's just that it's a gunshot at the frequency of a dog whistle.

LEMON: Ok.

SOUCIE: So humans can't hear it. But that's how loud it is under water. So if you think about being in the mountains and you hear a gunshot go up and then try to trace down where that gunshot went, not an easy thing to do.

LEMON: Les Abend, where do you think most of the assets should be devoted, to air or sea at this point?

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I think they should continue assets in both directions both on the sea and -- or in the sea and on the air because -- on the water because I think those fragments debris fragments are important to -- to locate just by beginning, you'll agree with me, I think David, the first part of the investigation process and then of course that we know how important the black boxes are.

LEMON: Who was it and was it Miles that said I think Miles you said in another show, that they should -- they're not going to hear pingers anymore and they should just -- they should start putting those submersibles in the water now.

O'BRIEN: Yes I mean you know this is way on the outside of this investigation, but my gut tells me those batteries are done. You know they're going to -- they're going to probably give it a couple of more days because it is so much more efficient to be listening for pings and if you can find one more spot that would just give you narrow it down, narrow down that box ever more because the submersible vehicle is so much slower, it's six or seven times slower covering any particular piece of ocean compared to the towed pinger locator, so --

LEMON: Yes.

O'BRIEN: -- so it's probably worth a couple more days.

LEMON: Real quickly, I had to get to break though but Alan, do you agree it's time to forget about the pingers and start putting assets in the water?

DIEHL: I think so. And also, get --very quickly get the British ship Echo which is a submarine rescue and locator, ok basically it can start mapping that bottom before they put the Bluefin in.

LEMON: All right thank you everyone.

Stick around lots more to talk about. We're going to bring you the latest on Flight 370 of course and our breaking news out of Kansas, throughout this hour.

But first, violence is spiraling in Ukraine. Now the country's acting president issues an ultimatum to pro-Russian protesters. We're going to take you there next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're following breaking developments out of Ukraine.

The country's acting president takes a stand, imposing a Monday deadline for pro-Russian militants holed up in government buildings and police stations to lay down their arms or face a full-scale operation. Pro-Russian forces seized several buildings in recent days. The move is frighteningly similar to that scene in Crimea.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports on the day's violence on the eastern city of Donetsk.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Donetsk has seen a troubling escalation towards violence here in the past 36 hours. We've been to a number of towns today which have been seized by pro-Russian militants backed up by pro-Russian protesters.

(inaudible) interior minister today said they would be clearing with an anti-terror operation, that's still very much in control of protesters and reinforced their barricades blocking the entrance into town. In fact, we understand from a senior security official that the Ukrainian attempt to move into that town to take on these militants didn't even get really into the outskirts. They got into a crossfire in a nearby road and one Ukrainian security official was killed, five injured in that particular shoot-out.

Another town (inaudible) now pro-Russian protesters all over the police station there and the protests outside of the local administration building. Very hard to see how these pro-Russian protesters, backed by armed force really, feel they need to move anywhere ahead of the presidential deadline given by Oleksandr Turchynov, the interim president of Ukraine for them to lay down their arms and they're receiving an amnesty, no prosecution, the implicit threat being if they didn't do that the Ukrainian military could perhaps be involved. Really tense hours ahead here, the real focus, whether Kiev can muster enough manpower and military strength to properly focus on these pro-Russian protesters and suppress what's happening and then, of course, even if that does happen, will we then see an intervention from Russian forces 40,000 strong just across the boarder?

Russia saying very clearly through its foreign minister that they think the west has to move now to prevent civil war breaking out here and that the Ukrainian government has declared war on its own people -- troubling rhetoric and a lot moving quickly here, a sense of real escalation -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Nick Paton Walsh. Nick thank you very much.

While the crisis grows worse in Ukraine, the search for Flight 370 goes on. A relentless hunt for clues to what happened to the airliner. A live report from Perth next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back everyone.

I want you to hold tight because we're not going far from our two developing news stories, one in Kansas, one in Ukraine. But first, I want to get to the case of Flight 370 and the task at hand, find the black boxes and hopefully find the missing plane. Search teams are taking a different approach.

Let's go straight now to Perth, Australia where it is already Monday. CNN's Erin McLaughlin is there. Erin what's the plan for today?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Don. Well, we received today's search update from the Joint Agency Coordination Center. The big headline there being that there have been no new acoustic detections in the past 24 hours but the search for these elusive pings continues. The Australian vessel, the "Ocean Shield", combing the waters equipped with the American towed pinger locator once again trying to detect any sort of signals; the British vessel, the "HSM Echo" still by its side.

Efforts by air as well, Australian surveillance planes -- excuse me -- flying over head trying to pick up on any signals from the sonobuoys that they've parachuted on to the waters. But it has to be said it has been silent since Tuesday. No new pings since Tuesday. And Australian authorities have long said that they will exhaust these efforts until they are absolutely certain that those black box batteries have completely expired, given the fact that it's been some 37 days since this plane went missing. And the black box batteries have an operational life of 30. The question becomes when are they going to feel comfortable to make that assumption? No timetable from the Australians so far.

Also according to this press statement from the Joint Agency Coordination Center this morning, the search field for the debris -- there's two searches going on here, there's the underwater search for pings and then there's the search for debris. The debris search field actually narrowing today by some 3,800 square miles; yesterday it increased by some 6,000 squares mile.

This is a moving search field looking for this debris. It's based on calculations that have been made on oceanic drift among other things and it has to be said that despite days and days and days and hours and hours of searching by air and by sea for any physical signs of this plane, they have yet to find anything so far -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Thank you Erin McLaughlin, we appreciate that.

Coming up, our panel of experts on the missing plane are here on this day 38 in the search for Malaysia Air Flight 370. What should be next? And is failure an option?

But first, a shooting rampage today near Kansas City, three people are dead. It happened at two Jewish facilities, a community center and a retirement. The latest on the investigation is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Updating now, our breaking news near Kansas City. Three people are dead, two of them at this Jewish community center in Overland Park, Kansas. Witnesses say a man with a gun started shooting at people after asking them if they were Jewish.

One of the people killed is a boy in his teens. Police say the gunman then drove to a Jewish retirement home and killed an elderly woman there, an older woman there, I should say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't see state troopers on the side streets blocking off entrances and everything. That's unusual. By any means. There's no other words to describe it, just panic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Police have a man in custody, they believe him to be a white - they say he's white, in his 70s, and they say he used a shotgun in at least one of the shootings. The man was arrested without incident in the parking lot of the school after the second shooting at the retirement home.

I want you to hear this, I spoke with an Overland Park rabbi, not long after the shootings. A rabbi who is also a police department chaplain. He told me about some things that witnesses say they saw and heard about the suspect. These things were not confirmed by the police chief but I want you to hear what the rabbi told me, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RABBI HERBERT MANDL, CHAPLAIN, OVERLAND PARK, KANSAS POLICE DEPT.: Well, unfortunately, three people have passed away that have been shot, at least one was a teenager. In the Jewish community center who was in the theater when this first shooting took place. We know that there is a suspect in custody who reportedly was spouting neo-Nazi slogans when he was being taken away by the Overland Park police.

Both accident scenes and both the shooting scenes are now under control. There's nothing actively going on at this time. And that's all of the information that we have at the moment.

LEMON: You said the suspect -

MANDL: There was a tremendous amount of buildup of security now across the Jewish community there, police have been wonderful. I mean, police cars at every Jewish facility as a precaution at this point until everything settles down.

LEMON: And you said he was uttering neo-Nazi slurs as he killed these people?

MANDL: Yes. I was not at the scene, but I've been told he was yelling "Hai, Hitler!" as he was being taken away in cuffs. I also -

LEMON: Three dead. Can you - can you explain -

MANDL: This gentleman is a senior, in his 70s, which is incredible.

LEMON: The suspect, you believe, is a senior in his 70s?

MANDL: That's what we - that's what I have been told. I, again, was not at the scene. But he's apparently an older gentleman and he was asking people, before he shot, if they were Jewish or not. Person identified themselves, as an example at Village Shalom as being Jewish, he then shot. It sounds like very much like a hate crime. LEMON: Everyone, again, the information is just coming in, you're getting it as we are. We're speaking with Rabbi Mandl of the Overland Park Kansas Police Department about a shooting at a Jewish community center. Three people confirmed dead now.

And according to the rabbi on the phone, the man who is believed responsible for this went through the center asking people if they were Jewish. He says uttering neo-Nazi slurs to people, and then shooting them. Is everyone who was hurt, everyone involved, is it all in the same part of the community center, rabbi?

MANDL: No, no, no. Two at the Jewish community center, and then he traveled about a mile to a Jewish retirement home, Village Shalom, the third individual was shot and then killed. There are two different shooting scenes about a mile apart. He then took off, and was arrested about a mile away, at a parking lot of an elementary school. All in Overland Park.

LEMON: OK. Again, I am just getting this information, as you're telling me here. Yes. So, there were teenagers at this community center when this happened?

MANDL: Correct. There is an audition for a play going on at the time. I know at least one of the deceased is a teenage male.

LEMON: And this is the eve of Passover.

MANDL: Yes, tomorrow night's Passover.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: We'll continue to follow that breaking news coming out of the Kansas City area.

Also, coming up here on CNN, a congressman just back from a trip to Ukraine. He says the U.S. and the international community needs to do a whole lot more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A California congressman says the U.S. must do more in Ukraine. Representative Adam Schiff, a Democrat who recently visited the country, says one of the biggest ways America can act is through sanctions against Russia.

I spoke with the representative last hour and he says it won't be easy but doing so could prevent another invasion by Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: I think the U.S. needs to do a few things. We need to step up our sanctions, and that means really trying to get Europe together around sector wide sanctions, if the Russians further incur into Ukraine. Sanctions on their energy industry, on their mining industry, on their banking industry, things that would really cripple Russia's economy. If we want to prevent a third kind of territorial invasion after Georgia, now Ukraine, we're going to have to get serious about imposing substantial costs and repercussions. We have the power to do it. We and Europe have the power to do it. The question is do we have the will to do it? I think Putin right now questions whether we have the will to step up to the plate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What tougher sanctions would hurt the U.S. and Europe, but is it needed? I want to bring in General Spider Marks, CNN military analyst, and also Eli Lake, senior national security correspondent at "The Daily Beast" here. And so, Eli, Representative Schiff has called for more hands-on approach in the Ukraine. You wrote Friday that NATO's commander is calling for the west to do more, too. But this is a split with the White House. How much would this hurt the U.S. economically?

ELI LAKE, SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, I think on the sanctions question, there's also a big question mark about whether Germany and other European countries will go along with the more biting sanctions, that would also hurt them in terms of, especially Russia's energy sector. What General Phillip Reed Love, the supreme allied commander of NATO forces in Europe wants to do is to share more detailed intelligence with Ukrainian military but also to give them the kind of command and control equipment such as secure communications equipment, that would help them in the case of a more formal invasion or against what they're seeing now which is the infiltration of these Russian special operation forces into eastern Ukraine.

LEMON: General Spider Marks, remember the last, you know, the invasion of Crimea, where Putin said, he threatened to seize American assets in Russia and threatened to take the resources of American companies in Russia, it appears that it doesn't really matter for him. He is hell- bent on doing what he's going to do and sanctions may not make one bit of difference.

GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, Don, I think it's important that sanctions are put in place and that the international community especially the EU and NATO nations can galvanize around what we think the in-state needs to be vis-a-vis these sanctions. But what we have to recognize right now is that as frustrated as we are relative to Crimea, we need to take that off the table. That's a done deal, we're not putting that genie back in the bottle.

But what's important, and General Breedlove has indicated this is there needs to be more military sharing of intelligence and there needs to be some additional force plus ups within NATO so that Putin understands that if any more aggressive action were to take place on his part, at least NATO is in a position to be more aggressive and possibly to do something more about it.

When you look at what we, the United States and the coalition did in 2002, we built up forces in Kuwait and we prepared and then we executed the liberation of Iraq. What we're seeing in Russia right now is not dissimilar to what we saw in Kuwait back in 2002, then with the invasion of 2003. Why we're not paying attention to that militarily, I simply don't know. I don't know why we've taken that opportunity to do something that's very demonstrative that Putin can understand off the table.

LEMON: If there are stronger sanctions, Eli, and I hear what the general's saying, but that can have an immediate, can that make an immediate difference or is this something that's going to take time?

LAKE: Well, any kind of sanctions that would further separate elements of the Russian economy, particularly their banking sector, could potentially destroy the economic coalition that has isolated Iran. I mean, Russia's participation not just in voting for the U.N. sanctions but also playing along for now in terms of basically an effective embargo, you know, buying Iranian oil is credited as one of the reasons why the Iranians are in a negotiation position right now.

So there is a larger kind of chess board right now. A huge part of the Obama administration's broader foreign policy is having Russia cooperate on getting rid of Syrian chemical weapons, eventually helping put an end to the Syrian civil war and of course, trying to pressure and negotiate with Iran enough so they give up their nuclear program. So turning around and then seeing that our ally and our economic partner on those things has to be sanctions at another point is really a huge kind of 180. I think it's going to be very difficult to get it to the point where those kind of sanctions can be biting.

LEMON: General Marks as we look at these pictures, the U.N. security council meeting, emergency meeting at top of the hour. It's - there it is. We'll carry - we'll have the information for you. But again this is happening at top of the hour. General, what can we expect from this meeting? Will this meeting be of any consequence to Vladimir Putin?

MARKS: Frankly, I think the short answer is no. It's one of those essential steps that we have to take. But I think we need to keep our expectations very low in terms of an outcome that would look positive. Look, what needs to happen right now is all elements of power need to be implemented to try to isolate and punish, we're looking to try to punish Putin to get him to reverse some of his current activities.

The second thing that we need to do is the United States is in the midst of a national security study and a new strategy that really defines what our military is going to look like moving forward. We need to kind of relook that thing quite considerably and without getting into details, there are some efforts that are being pushed right now in our military shape that run contrary to what we're seeing right now in Ukraine.

I think the third thing to Eli's point, is we need to loosen up and get our LNG, our liquid natural gas, available for export. Let me tell you, EU finds it hard to get their gas and oil out of Russia, they will stop paying for it. And there has to be an alternative, that can be the United States.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, gentlemen. I really appreciate that. And again, an emergency security council meeting happening at top of the hour at the United Nations.

Now to another developing story, we are watching the search for Flight 370. My panel of experts here with me now. Thirty eight days, day 38, what should be done next? And is failure an option here? I'm going to ask the panel in just a moment. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back right after the quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Every day questions for the hunt of Malaysia flight 370 come pouring in. And we've got experts to answer your questions. So keep sending them. You can tweet me @don lemon, hashtag. Make sure you use hastag 370Qs.

My panel of aviation experts and ocean experts are here with me. So, Alan, first to you. Here's what Rick asks. He says "If planes were on floor, relatively intact, would integrity of fuselage tend to prevent/shield emission of pings?"

ALAN DIEHL, FMR. NTSB ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR: No, transmitters work in water. Once hit by water, the signals will emanate from the wreckage even if it's intact.

LEMON: Right. So he's asking basically if the plane could block the pinging of the black box.

DIEHL: Not likely but one thing that might, is if it's silts up real bad, or sinks in the muck. But the fuselage itself should not prohibit the pinger signals from escaping.

LEMON: Les Abend, Andrew asks does a pilot have any control over how much fuel is put on a plane?

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes, absolutely. But mostly it's a dispatch function. They plan the fuel initially. If we want more fuel because of weather or other situations that we may anticipate, we can add - we can add more fuel.

LEMON: David Soucie, Sarah asks why does a flight voice recorder only record for two hours? I can probably record more than two hours on voice memos with my iPhone.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: It's one of those things that you can but maybe you shouldn't. The pilots' ability to not be - have retribution for anything during the flight is very important because during that flight they have to have control of what happens but at the last two hours is what they agreed to the pilots unions, the LPA, what was a reasonable amount of time that can still help the investigation. In this case, I wish it had been longer.

LEMON: Here's my question. What were you going to say?

ABEND: I have a question for you, David. Is it possible with your experience with these units that it can actually record more than two hours, or do you know for sure it's strictly two?

SOUCIE: It records over it again.

ABEND: So you know -

SOUCIE: They made sure what was on there before is not retrievable.

LEMON: OK. So here's my question. How long, David, before they find the black boxes?

SOUCIE: You know, I hate to speculate on behalf of the families. I want to qualify this and go back and say -

LEMON: You have done this before. You know a reasonable amount of time.

SOUCIE: Yes, absolutely. So what I would say at this point being that I trust that the pinger location is a real ping, I would say within the next four weeks or so, four to five weeks, we will probably have identification as to whether that's the black box, if the debris is around that black box. Getting it out of the water that could be months, easily months.

LEMON: Fabien.

FABIEN COUSTEAU, MISSION 37 EXPEDITION LEADER: I tend to agree. If the weather cooperates, which it doesn't always cooperate in that part of the world. It may take longer than four weeks. Beyond that, once you dispatch the ROVs and especially the manned submersibles it has to be really good weather to be able to go down there and visit the site and eventually bring back up some of those items.

LEMON: You are thinking four weeks at least?

COUSTEAU: I think much longer than that to bring anything back up from the bottom.

LEMON: Miles O'Brien?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I think that's all targeted and the thing that I want to caution people on is this two hour loop on the cockpit voice recorder and shame on the pilots union for blocking longer recordings. I think that's silly. It would be safer if we had longer recordings, of course. I will get a lot of bad tweets on that, but so be it.

And then the other issue is, that two hours will probably not tell us much, likely, and then you have the flight data recorder with 80 parameters and that's good but if it's a perfectly good functioning aircraft and the flight data recorder indicates that, then what do you have? You have a cockpit voice recorder that is capturing engine noise at impact and you are no further toward figuring out this mystery. That's my biggest concern, that after all this time, we may be left with that.

LEMON: Yes. You can probably hear, according to our audio expert, Miles, you can probably hear which engine went out, you know, if the rudder was shaking, that sort of thing. He said there are things you can learn just from the noises in the airplane but the best information will come from hey, we are having trouble, mayday, however. That's the best information and if that went on for seven, eight hours, that's not there. Les Abend.

ABEND: Well, it's all got to be used in conjunction with the flight data recorder. It may not be there but back to Miles and the unions being responsible -

LEMON: That's why you were shaking your head.

ABEND: I was shaking my head. The unions weren't totally responsible, pilots unions weren't totally responsible for the two hours of data. There were a lot more factors involved with that.

O'BRIEN: The unions HAVE blocked this repeatedly. It would really be nice to have video in the cockpits. This would help the safety of aviation. Come on, Les. Get real here.

LEMON: That is a source of (INAUDIBLE) camera in the cockpit.

O'BRIEN: It would be safer for aviation. Why can't you guys let a camera in the cockpit? We have cameras where we work all the time, right, Don?

LEMON: Yes, absolutely.

ABEND: But it doesn't enhance your safety. But then again, for two hours, what do we really capture on tape? This is after the fact -

O'BRIEN: Well, in this case it would be nice to have seven or eight hours, wouldn't it?

ABEND: We don't know. We really don't know.

O'BRIEN: Well, I can tell you it would be better than two.

LEMON: I agree. That is the only job in the universe that I understand that people will say "No, I don't want cameras there and allow it." Everyone else, too bad. Every athlete, every news person -

O'BRIEN: Everybody who works -

LEMON: Police officer has a dash cam. Everybody has a camera, even judges in the courtroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) subject to pilot fatigue?

LEMON: That's why it's more important.

SOUCIE: No, it's not. It's just the opposite. It increases pilot fatigue. We've done a lot of work in the cockpit.

LEMON: How will it increase pilot fatigue?

SOUCIE: Because just noise, you're in the aircraft for six or seven hours flying. You're constantly bombarded with different things that are going on. It's a huge burden.

LEMON: OK. I got to run. We'll be right back.

SOUCIE: Great.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're following breaking news this evening from the suburbs of Kansas City, where a man with a gun started shooting people today outside a Jewish community center in Overland Park, Kansas. He killed two people, one of them a teenager who said the gunman then drove to a Jewish retirement home and then killed an older woman there. The suspect is in custody. They describe him as a white man in his 70s and say he used a shotgun in at least one of the shootings.

Authorities say it is too early to use the words hate crime, but because all three people were killed at the Jewish facilities, it's an angle that they are considering.

The United Nations security council will be meeting in emergency session minutes from now on the escalating crisis in Ukraine. Russia requested the meeting after Ukraine's acting president issued an ultimatum today demanding pro-Russian militants hold up in government buildings and police stations in Ukraine, lay down their arms or face a full scale operation. Ukraine's former president, Viktor Yanukovych, says the new government is the leading - is leading the country towards civil war and it's up to the west to stop it.

It is day 38 and 12 planes and 15 ships are scouring for clues in the disappearance of flight 370. Search teams continue to look and listen for debris in the elusive - and the elusive pings. Top Malaysian officials reaffirmed today we must find the black boxes if the mystery of the missing airliner is to be solved. They insists no lead has been ruled out just yet.

I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us. Make sure you stay with CNN and cnn.com for the very latest on those three big news stories. Meantime, it is a night of premieres here on CNN.

Next, Bourdain "Prime Cuts." Then at 9:00 Eastern, "Parts Unknown: Punjab" that's followed at 10:00 Eastern with a new season of Morgan Spurlock, "Inside Man."

I'm Don Lemon. I will see you back here with a special report on the missing flight at 11:00 Eastern.