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Bluefin Back in the Water; Return to Watertown One Year After Bombings

Aired April 15, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there, I'm Brooke Baldwin, live in a very rainy, windy Boston, Massachusetts, on this afternoon for special coverage of an emotional and inspiring moment. I have to just stand here in front of you and just tell you it is such an honor and a privilege to be back in this city today, live this hour. The nation will mark exactly one year, down to the minute, when those two bombs exploded, not too far from where I stand here on Boylston Street, at one of the world's most famous marathons. So during the show, I'll speak live with some very special guests.

Also ahead, the state trooper, the Massachusetts state trooper who got in a bit of trouble for releasing some pretty gruesome photos he took in his official capacity the night of the manhunt, the night one of those young suspects was captured.

He took me on a tour of Watertown, where that manhunt ended. So definitely, stick around for that.

And a number, as I mentioned, a number of special people coming up live here in Boston on this incredibly significant day.

But right now other news we have to talk about here, the underwater drone, the Bluefin 21, it is back in the water at this hour diving toward the bottom of the Indian Ocean.

It is a plunge into uncharted territory. Searchers are hoping its second mission will go a bit better than the first. That mission was stopped short after the Bluefin reached its maximum depth, forcing it to then resurface. So the 20-hour underwater expedition lasted all of six hours instead.

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CAPT. MARK MATTHEWS, U.S. NAVY: It aborted its mission at about the six-hour point. What this vehicle was programmed to do on this mission was maintain an altitude above the sea floor of about 30 meters while it conducted a side scan sonar search of the area.

Now, one condition that causes it to abort its dive is if it reaches its maximum operating depth of 4,500 meters, so that's what happened in this case.

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BALDWIN: The limited data from the unmanned sub has been analyzed, and nothing found.

As for the question mark over who exactly handles those black boxes when and if they are found, Malaysia is now promising to share any information that is retrieved from those black boxes. But they say custody isn't actually that important.

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HISHAMMUDDIN HUSSEIN, ACTING MALAYSIAN TRANSPORT MINISTER: I don't think it's important who gets custody as far as I'm concerned. And this is my own personal position. It's finding out the truth. And when we want to find out the truth, definitely we have to review what's in the black box.

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BALDWIN: So what exactly does all of this mean here as we go forward? Let's go to the experts, retired Navy captain and diver, Bobbie Scholley in Washington, joins me live.

Also joining me, CNN aviation analyst and former Transportation Department inspector general, Mary Schiavo, in Charleston, South Carolina.

So, ladies, welcome to you.

And Mary, out of the gate, you get my first question because, again, Malaysia's acting transport minister said it's actually not important who gets a hold, who gets custody of those black boxes, hopefully once they're found.

What does that sound like to you? Is he willing to hand them over? Is this wise?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I think he's laying the basis to allow Australia to continue to lead the investigation, including through the downloading and the interpretation of the black boxes. Australia's one of four nations that can do it.

I'm sure they will also call in -- well, Boeing's already a party to the investigation because they manufactured the plane.

So it sounds like that he has -- that Malaysia has realized that this is going to be a cooperative effort. And it's in everybody's interests, especially Malaysia's, to be very transparent about it. And hopefully they will be.

BALDWIN: Hopefully they will be indeed.

Bobbie, this question is about the Bluefin, because as I mentioned, this thing could have been underwater for 20 hours; it only lasted six hours in that first mission. As its first go, is that fairly typical? Or less than expected?

BOBBIE SCHOLLEY, RETIRED NAVY CAPTAIN: Well, hi, Brooke. Hey, this is good. And I have known Captain Matthews for years. He is the U.S. Navy's supervisor of salvage. He's a great guy, and he's a very smart guy. And the rest of his team out there from Phoenix are the experts.

And they put the Bluefin in. They gave it a run of six hours. It wasn't the whole 20 hours. They pulled it out. They read the data.

Well, they didn't pull it out, it came back out; it worked the way it was supposed to. It got deeper than it's supposed to. Its safety device sent it back up to the surface.

They took it out, they analyzed the data. It didn't have anything on it. So they didn't wait for the whole 20 hours before they put it back in. They turned it right back around, programmed a new search area, got it right back in there.

The beauty of the Bluefin is, you don't have to wait for daylight, you can get it back in the water right away. They got it right back in the water and they're not wasting any time. So it's back in there doing its job. That is very, very good.

BALDWIN: Exactly right. It's back in the water as you pointed out.

Just to remind people, the Bluefin has this incredibly accurate sonar, and so hopefully when and if they sense something large, object, maybe wreckage, then they bring it up, pop a camera on, put it back down and take some pictures and analyze that.

But here's my question back again to you, Bobbie, is are there parts of the ocean -- I mean, this is an incredibly massive area, a very, very deep area, potentially unprecedented depth, are there parts of this ocean that could be too deep for this?

SCHOLLEY: Oh, absolutely. We do not know everything we need to know about that part of the Indian Ocean. And there could be parts of that ocean that are deeper than the 15,000 feet that the Bluefin is capable of searching.

And if that's the case, then they do need to get another piece of equipment out there.

If they cannot find what they're looking for in less than 15,000 feet, they're looking at all the high probability areas in the search area.

But if they determine that it's too deep for Bluefin, there are other pieces of side scan sonar equipment that they can send out there. There are several pieces that are tethered that will go up to 20,000 feet. Then they'll have to bring that out if they exhaust all the other areas.

BALDWIN: OK. So that could be plan C, D and E, depending on what, if anything, the Bluefin hears.

Mary, to you. Because much attention has been made to that cell phone, the co-pilot's cell phone that we now know was turned on during the flight, after that jet, you know, lost contact.

Since we're just learning about that now, let me throw this at you. Would it be possible -- because we know there were many, many passengers on that plane, a lot of passengers presumably had cell phones as well -- could they have been on their phones?

SCHIAVO: Yes. And I think that that's a really important piece of information. We need to hear from the investigators. And we want to know, was this pilot's cell phone on the whole time?

And if so, were there any pings off of any cell towers at any time from takeoff through the time when they crossed back over, across Malaysia after the left-hand turn?

And if that's the case, did other passengers' cell phones get a signal off of the cell phone tower, too?

Or if it's a situation where if that cell phone only got a tower hit after the left turn, then you might -- one might surmise that something happened in the cockpit, and the co-pilot turned his cell phone on after that.

BALDWIN: So forgive me, I'm not trying to be obtuse, but Mary, I thought many weeks ago, in the thick of this whole thing, we were told, no, nothing was found with those passengers' cell phones.

Are you telling me now that there could be information that could be gleaned?

SCHIAVO: Well, you know, we seem to be getting information in dribs and drabs, and we've had lots of information that we were told, no, there's no information. Now there is information.

What you have to understand is there's no central repository. A lot of people think after all the Snowden releases, there's some big government repository of all the cell phone data.

And what the government of Malaysia, the investigators, rather, would have had to have done is try to identify passengers' cell phones, then go to different cell phone providers, get the records of their cell phones, and then also from the towers where they know they got pings, get the records of what cell phones went there.

So it's a pretty big investigative effort. And I just am suspecting that maybe they haven't done that entire investigative effort. It's not a one -- there's not a one-stop shopping to get cell phone call records. You have to do a lot of gumshoeing, and it takes a bit of time.

BALDWIN: OK. What are we now, five, six weeks into this? Hopefully they're looking into that.

Mary Schiavo and Bobbie Scholley, thank you so much for your expertise.

Just ahead here, I will speak live with a man who found the black boxes, and found the wreckage of another famous plane crash in the Indian Ocean. Hear what he did once sonar detected a large image. Plus, back here in Boston, one year after those marathon bombings, the state trooper who is no longer with Massachusetts State Police, got in a bit of trouble for releasing pictures to the public because he and a lot of survivors out here were offended by a certain "Rolling Stone" cover of a younger suspect.

He took me on a tour of the manhunt in Watertown. You will see and hear exactly how it all went down. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

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BALDWIN: And welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin, live here in a windy, rainy Boston, Massachusetts, on such an important day here, where one year ago, this very hour, not just one, but two bombs shattered the joy and excitement of such an amazing race here, the Boston Marathon, the finish line, all of 50 feet away from where I'm standing here on Boylston Street.

So keep in mind today is a day of remembrance. This is a day of tribute, culminating in about 20 minutes at that race finish line. And so we will bring you -- I'm not going to be talking; we will just stop and pay tribute to those moments of silence, the flag raising, as we've now learned will be done by an officer who was hurt in the shootout, Officer Richard Donahue (ph), MBTA police officer. So we will see him raising that flag after the church bells chime, after those moments of silence, we will take that live here on CNN.

As we wait for that, let me just take you back one year ago to the manhunt for those suspects, and introduce you to former state police sergeant Sean Murphy. And he is the one who took the photos as police closed in on a bloodied Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in that boat.

How could we forget? And months after the attacks he allowed those photos to go public. And you know why he did it?

He did it because he was mad. He wanted to counter what you see here on the cover of "Rolling Stone," he and so many other survivors, families, Bostonians who were very offended by what they considered was just a far-too flattering photo of the younger suspect.

And so his decision to do that forced his eventual retirement from Massachusetts State Police. But talked to him yesterday, asked him again, do you have any regrets, he said, not at all. He says he's never slept more soundly in his life.

And I talked to him about that night police finally cornered the younger suspect in that boat in a backyard in Watertown.

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BALDWIN: You would never in a million years picture what happened here.

SEAN MURPHY, FORMER OFFICER, MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE: Could be anyone's neighborhood, could be any neighborhood anywhere.

BALDWIN (voice-over): Retired Sergeant Sean Murphy, a photographer with the Massachusetts State Police, saw the entire siege, and witnessed the capture of one of the bombers.

Walking around this quiet neighborhood just a year later, the tension still lingers.

SEAN MURPHY: In a sense, it seems like it was a year ago, and in another sense it seems like it was just yesterday.

BALDWIN (voice-over): It started with the killing of MIT police officer Sean Collier, leading to a car chase into Watertown and a shootout, killing one suspect, then a citywide search for his younger brother.

The focus? The very heart of Watertown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) is advising all Watertown eastern residents to remain in their homes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just filled up. There was like -- I would say 50 cop cars out here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, the way they rolled in behind us, they were coming from both sides.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were scared of every civilian that was walking down the street.

BALDWIN (voice-over): Abby (ph) Murphy, pregnant at the time, heard gunshots erupt outside her window.

ABBY MURPHY, WATERTOWN RESIDENT: You know, it's loud. Is it (INAUDIBLE)? Is it blocks away, do I need to duck? Yes, it's a scary thing. I think we were just trying to be really calm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was one of the tactical vehicles --

BALDWIN (voice-over): As Watertown hunkered down, Sean Murphy snapped photo after photo, what he captured through a lens would become one of the biggest takedowns of a wanted man in American history. It all led to this home, after a tip about blood on a boat.

SEAN MURPHY: As soon as I took that image, I knew that this boat was very close. And I knew that really, I needed to find cover.

SWAT teams risked their lives, closing in on one of the men they believed was responsible, not knowing if the 19-year-old was armed or perhaps, worse, strapped with explosives.

SEAN MURPHY: And all of a sudden, this guy came up.

BALDWIN: What was that moment like, seeing him?

SEAN MURPHY: This was a very dangerous, an active scene. It was good to know that this guy wasn't going to leave.

BALDWIN (voice-over): He didn't leave. Police ultimately pulled the suspect off the boat, pinning him to the ground, ending a massive manhunt. And for the first time in days, Boston could breathe.

BALDWIN: This was over at that point.

SEAN MURPHY: He was a dangerous guy. He had done a lot of dangerous things. And I think, really, at that point, his eyes are wide open. I think he knows that his reign of terror was over.

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BALDWIN: And as I also mentioned, Sean will be one of the 36,000 runners next Monday. It will be his first marathon. He is running and honored to be running for the MR8 Foundation. That's the Martin Richard Foundation. Remember, Martin Richard was 8 years young when he was killed a year ago today.

And once again, live in Boston, just down the way from me at the finish line, and we will pause in a matter of minutes, 2:49 pm Eastern time, to be precise, the moment of that first explosion here on Boylston Street, the crowds braving the wind and the rain to mark this moment that is so significant.

But beyond remembering, healing and then racing on Monday. We will mark those moments live here on CNN. So stay with me for that, for sure.

Coming up next, though, a fascinating guest. Back in 1987, a South African Airways jet crashed into the Indian Ocean. So sonar picked up the image of some kind of large object, and the man tasked with determining whether that was the wreckage or not, finds the black boxes.

Next and he can walk us through exactly what he saw, how he found it and how maybe we could be seeing this hopefully soon in the Indian Ocean once again. Don't miss this.

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BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We're live in Boston. And you're looking at many, many Boston strong, standing at the Boston finish line of the marathon. We're waiting. We're about 20 minutes away from the moment that first bomb blasted on Boylston.

They will be pausing; we will all be pausing for a moment of silence. Some church bells in the area will be chiming. A flag will be raised. So we will stay with this, and we will bring that ceremony to you live, as soon as that happens.

But let's talk about this plane because what a lot of folks don't know is this: Flight 370 would not be actually the first airliner to vanish into the deep Indian Ocean. In fact, a little history lesson. Taking you just back to 1987, South African Airways Flight 295, it was a Boeing 747, headed from Taiwan to Johannesburg; a fire broke out near the end of the route and the plane went down just about 130 miles northeast of Mauritius.

The ocean depth there, some 16,000 feet, very much in the ballpark of where Flight 370 could be lying.

And yes, they found that plane, at least parts of the plane, with a submersible. It is a fascinating story. Have a quick look.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then one year to the day after it disappeared, the Helderberg is found. From a depth of 4,400 meters, the submarine sends back images that could only be the wreckage of South African Airways Flight 295.

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BALDWIN: It's a pretty incredible story with possible lessons for the search for Flight 370. So Roy Truman actually led the effort to get that submersible three miles below the surface and ultimately find that wreckage. He joins me now live from Tampa, Florida.

So Roy, welcome.

ROY TRUMAN, SVP, ODYSSEY MARINE EXPLORATION: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: So we have the news today from Australia, that this Bluefin 21, this submersible actually had to resurface after going as deep as it could, not quite reaching the ocean floor. I know you some years ago had a similar situation. And you had to make adjustments to your submersible. Can you tell me about that?

TRUMAN: Yes. Well, you know, we didn't have the benefit of using an AUV like is being used today. So the searches were made with side scan sonar, towed side scan sonar.

And luckily, we had a wreckage field, floating wreckage, so we pretty much knew where the wreckage field was.

So the side scan sonar was deployed, and the limits of the wreckage field were determined, so that a documentation plan could be made up for an ROV to go and film the wreckage, to determine which pieces needed to be recovered.

BALDWIN: So you were able to find the wreckage of Flight 295 long after the pings from those black boxes ran out, because that could be the situation with Flight 370 right now.

How did you do that? And how long did it take you to find that wreckage down on the ocean floor?

TRUMAN: Well, it was different circumstances. Mauritius is in the northern Indian Ocean, and it's fairly remote. So we had to put a large vessel together with all of the appropriate search equipment and salvage equipment. So it took about three or four months to put that equipment together.

We pretty much knew where the wreckage field was, because the -- there was floating wreckage on the surface. So the time delay for us to get there was purely logistics, actually getting out on site with everything we needed.

BALDWIN: The big difference, obviously, what you just pointed out, that we do not have debris or wreckage floating on the surface. But it's interesting what you said a moment ago, which was so you're saying your situation was more remote, more remote in the Indian Ocean than the one in which they're dealing with today?

TRUMAN: Well, in the sense that Mauritius is a tiny island, doesn't have any resources, nowhere near anything that Australia has. But at the same time, there wasn't such a large search presence there, because they had been talking to the aircraft crew until they were 100 miles from Mauritius.

And so they virtually knew where the plane had crashed. So it was fairly easy for them to go out with search aircraft, find the wreckage, and that pretty much pinpointed where the plane had gone in and it was fairly easy for the subsea portion of the search to locate the wreckage.

BALDWIN: Fairly easy.

Can you tell me, because initially when you or the submersible, what, saw this, you thought it was a large object.

How did you finally connect the dots and realize, yes, this is at least a piece or pieces of the plane?

TRUMAN: Well, the first search was conducted with side scan sonar. And we quickly located what looked like a unique debris field that was totally different from the surrounding seabed features.

So once the sonar had located the debris field, it was then sent lower, so it could take high-resolution data back to the surface.

And the limits of the wreckage field were established, which allowed technicians and surveyors to impose a grid, a search grid, an electronic search grid over that wreckage field, and then we would deploy the ROV to actually swim amongst the wreckage, document it with TV and digital still photography.

BALDWIN: It can be done. It can be found, even in the much unknown Indian Ocean. Roy Truman, thank you so much for coming on.

And just ahead, the people who control our skies, scrambling to figure exactly how a disappearance like this never happens again. And the solution of one high-tech tool, we'll tell you about that coming up.

Also ahead here, Ukraine says an anti-terrorist operation is underway right now as forces circle a pro-Russian city. So is Vladimir Putin about to make a move as tensions rise? You're watching CNN's special live coverage here in Boston.

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